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View Full Version : Tony G 'insulted' by Sox contract offer...


mweflen
04-06-2004, 11:42 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-doug061.html

from doug Padilla's Sox notes in the Cub-Times...

Tony G felt insulted by the contract offer by the Sox, Williams has a hissy fit in response.

Perhaps KW is feeling the sting of his irrational overreliance on Willie already? I know that I, for one, would rather have had Tony's bat in there everydau at 2nd...

ode to veeck
04-06-2004, 11:52 AM
i woulda liked tony g to get the shot at 2b too, but its in the past tense at this point, will wee willie be the new royce, at least in terms of a obp hole?

mweflen
04-06-2004, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
i woulda liked tony g to get the shot at 2b too, but its in the past tense at this point, will wee willie be the new royce, at least in terms of a obp hole?

yikes - this is my fear exactly - especially after how bad Willie looked yesterday.

At least Royce was 'hidden' at the end of every lineup...

If Willie doesn't pull it together soon, one of two things should happen - Uribe should get the nod, or Rowand should become the lead-off man and Willie should bat 9th.

ode to veeck
04-06-2004, 12:19 PM
interesting points in the article:

KW claims Tony never spoke to him about the $$ of Sox offer, just the issue of playing time

Paulie's SB was his 1st in nearly 3 years!

mweflen
04-06-2004, 12:22 PM
Hey, "Wheels" had an ITPHR in 2001 as well, if memory serves...

maybe he should lead off! I bet dollars to donuts that he'll have a better OBP than Wee Willie this season...

SEALgep
04-06-2004, 12:26 PM
Tony wanted to be a starter with starter's pay. We couldn't offer the starters role because he isn't a starter, therefore we couldn't offer the pay either. He got his money at KC, and I wish he would leave it at that.

davidleeroth
04-06-2004, 03:32 PM
if tony g is 'insulted' by the sox contract offer, i'm pretty insulted for having to watch a mediocre at best infielder for 3 years.

jackbrohamer
04-06-2004, 03:40 PM
I was pretty insulted when he made that boneheaded fielding play against the Cubs in 2001 that allowed the Cubs to win

mweflen
04-06-2004, 04:51 PM
hey, if we're going to be insulted by boneheaded plays, we'd have to start looking at Jose Valentin or Ray Durham, too.

Tony played with heart. He went into 2nd with spikes up, and he never complained about how underutilized he was (unlike a guy like Daubach).

Uncle Jerry went on and on about how he was his favorite player. I guess it was Uncle Jerry's favorite player SALARY. He just wasn't specific enough about why he liked Tony.

I think he could have hit .280 plus if played every day. Since 1999, his average has never dipped below .260, witrh between 100 and 300 AB's a year. He's proven himself in MLB at-bats.

Instead, we've got Wee Willie and DeAngelo Part Deux.

hftrex
04-06-2004, 05:04 PM
I'm insulted that Graffanino was insulted by the Sox's fair offer to him.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2004, 06:04 PM
I'm insulted that anyone takes me dumb enough to think Tony Graffanino should have settled for anything less than the best deal he was offered. Nobody held a gun to KC's head to make their offer. Reinsdorf wasn't willing to pay. So what else is new?

Graff is thinking about his family ahead of the Sox. Good for him. Get over it already.

For the record, I'm no big Tony Graffanino fan. However I believe he will prove far more valuable than Willie Harris. Let's see how it plays out.

CubKilla
04-06-2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I'm insulted that anyone takes me dumb enough to think Tony Graffanino should have settled for anything less than the best deal he was offered. Nobody held a gun to KC's head to make their offer. Reinsdorf wasn't willing to pay. So what else is new?

Graff is thinking about his family ahead of the Sox. Good for him. Get over it already.

For the record, I'm no big Tony Graffanino fan. However I believe he will prove far more valuable than Willie Harris. Let's see how it plays out.

Well said PHG.

If Sox fans are looking for the person that consistenly insults the fanbase, look no further than :reinsy

ode to veeck
04-06-2004, 08:51 PM
Absolutely, PHG; How many of us would turn down 2.2M vs whatever the heck JR put on the table ...

SoxBoy14
04-06-2004, 09:14 PM
I say screw him. He doesn't want to play here then we don't want him hear. It's not like he was one of our teams leaders, he wasn't even a starter! I wonder how he'll feel when the Sox sweep KC at home.

awesomefan
04-06-2004, 11:09 PM
I LOVE TONY GRAFFANINO

Anybody that doesn't like Tony or thinks he a 3rd rate ballplayer just don't know Tony Graffanino.

Tony is so multi-talented in the infield & a very good batter. Tony may not be amongst the better players in most peoples eyes, but he is a much needed player on anybodys team.

Even if Tony is a benchwarmer, you can count on him to come in cold, shake off the cobwebs, & usually do something good. I loved it when Tony got to play a whole game.

It looks like there were several reasons that took Tony to KC. I think the main reason was a CHEAP JR & KW.

mweflen
04-07-2004, 12:37 AM
Yeah, i mean, *somebody* (KC) thought he was worth a mil per year over 2 years. They obviously think pretty highly of his skills over there.

I doubt Wee Willie would even be on the MLB staffs of many other teams in the league.

I hope he proves me wrong, I really do. But he's had 328 career MLB AB's so far, and thus far is a meager .210/.252/.259 (Ave/OBP/Slug). Not exactly the sort of numbers that inspire optimism for the future.

At about the same point in his career (right before his full 2003 season), Joe Crede had seen 264 AB, with results of .276/.318/.465.

And so far, Crede has been a solid if unspectacular offensive performer - his 2003 results (.261/.308/.433) are pretty much in line with his career marks.

And Willie is supposed to improve drastically? He's had more AB's than Crede had before his full season, at the same age, and has put up dismal numbers.

Excuse me if I don't put on my rose colored glasses just yet.

-----
Tony G., on the other hand, in his years with the Sox, seeing sporadic playing time, posted these numbers: 772 AB, .270/.378/.410

So WHY ISN'T HE OUR 2ND BASEMAN while Wee Willie keeps on cooking in the minors?

Two answers - KW's ego and JR's tight purse strings.

SEALgep
04-07-2004, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by mweflen


So WHY ISN'T HE OUR 2ND BASEMAN while Wee Willie keeps on cooking in the minors?

Two answers - KW's ego and JR's tight purse strings. The reason why Willie Harris is our second baseman is because he has more range at second, more speed, and isn't in the latter part of his career. Remember, he tried to leave the Sox initially to become a starter somewhere. There were no takers and he just took the best deal out there to become a utility man. There were some second base needs out there other than us, and yet he remained unsigned. He is a backup/utility infielder, not a starter. And although he is very good in that role, he isn't worth what he's getting from KC unless he's playing a lot more often for them than he did with us. Either way, he wasn't going to play more than he had been with us, so he didn't justify us matching their offer. It's simple economics, and it makes sense, whether you like KW or not. Uribe has much more upside, and he can possibly be our starting SS next year or the year after. We'll see if he continues to progress, but that's certainly more than you could say for Graff.

mweflen
04-07-2004, 03:04 AM
Sealgep,

numbers don't lie.

.270/.378/.410 over 772 AB is worth a million in today's baseball economics.

Tony would have been a good everyday option for 3 or 4 years at 2B for the Sox.

I agree, Uribe has a great potential upside. Now, if he only gets to play...

Personally, I'm hoping for a platoon. That way, the gaping hole in the batting order will only be there half the time.

sas1974
04-07-2004, 12:13 PM
It looks like Tony G is getting what he wanted:

Second baseman Desi Relaford was placed on the 15-day disabled list Tuesday by the Royals.

Tony Graffanino will take over for Relaford, whose season so far has been comprised of one at-bat and two fielding plays.

Tony G's a Starter Now (http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/kc/news/kc_news.jsp?ymd=20040406&content_id=695558&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp)

SEALgep
04-07-2004, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
Sealgep,

numbers don't lie.

.270/.378/.410 over 772 AB is worth a million in today's baseball economics.

Tony would have been a good everyday option for 3 or 4 years at 2B for the Sox.

I agree, Uribe has a great potential upside. Now, if he only gets to play...

Personally, I'm hoping for a platoon. That way, the gaping hole in the batting order will only be there half the time. He would have been nice to have a couple more years as a utility guy, but if you are mistaken if you believe he is an everyday second baseman for the next three to four years.

mweflen
04-07-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
He would have been nice to have a couple more years as a utility guy, but if you are mistaken if you believe he is an everyday second baseman for the next three to four years.

i'm not saying he's the best alternative. but he's a fair sight better than our current alternative.

SEALgep
04-07-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
i'm not saying he's the best alternative. but he's a fair sight better than our current alternative. That still remains to be seen. And if you are going to evaluate that, make sure you include defense. If Harris can bat .260-.270, (comparable to Graff) and have the speed that he possess (including the range at second) and at the price tag he's at, he would indeed be a better alternative than Tony.

Mohoney
04-07-2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
That still remains to be seen. And if you are going to evaluate that, make sure you include defense. If Harris can bat .260-.270, (comparable to Graff) and have the speed that he possess (including the range at second) and at the price tag he's at, he would indeed be a better alternative than Tony.

If Harris can bat .260?

Personally, I don't see it happening.

He'll be here this year and next year, and will be GONE in 2006.

Anybody remember Mike Caruso?

SEALgep
04-07-2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Mohoney
If Harris can bat .260?

Personally, I don't see it happening.

He'll be here this year and next year, and will be GONE in 2006.

Anybody remember Mike Caruso? There is also Uribe too.