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View Full Version : Why not talk about how bad Willie looked?


mweflen
04-06-2004, 11:35 AM
I think the nugget of bad news that we're overloking here is that Willie looked truly overmatched in basically every at bat. His only 'production' was a sac bunt.

He looked every bit like the Willie Harris I've seen over the past two seasons - no stick, plenty of misplaced confidence.

I want the guy to succeed, but sheesh! It's hard to stay positive watching him swing the bat...

poorme
04-06-2004, 11:44 AM
I had to listen on the radio, but someone told me he hit the hardest ball of the day - a liner to 1B. I would imagine he doens't hit as well against lefties. He made some nice plays on defense.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 11:51 AM
I watched him in all 5 plate appearances. He looked overmatched against the lefty starter, and overmatched against the righty reliever. He was chasing stuff out of the zone - off the outside corner for the most part.

If Guillen is going to play matchups, PLEASE let him platoon Willie and Uribe!

Paulwny
04-06-2004, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by mweflen
I think the nugget of bad news that we're overloking here is that Willie looked truly overmatched in basically every at bat. His only 'production' was a sac bunt.

He looked every bit like the Willie Harris I've seen over the past two seasons - no stick, plenty of misplaced confidence.



Why beat a dead horse? Most of us expected this.

poorme
04-06-2004, 12:00 PM
In 5 AB's he saw 22 pitches. Swung and missed at 3.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Why beat a dead horse? Most of us expected this.

Because at least it's a new dead horse to beat... :smile:

CubKilla
04-06-2004, 12:02 PM
I thought Ozzie said a week or two ago that Uribe was going to get the Opening Day start anyway? I hope Ozzie Guillen doesn't turn into Ozzie Manuel.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 12:12 PM
ah, Cubkilla, I like your signature...

Jose's 'heart taps' at Wrigley are my second favorite Sox memory... after Carlos' grand slam...

I was fortunate enough to be present for both...



Makes me feel better after yesterday!

CubKilla
04-06-2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
ah, Cubkilla, I like your signature...

Jose's 'heart taps' at Wrigley are my second favorite Sox memory... after Carlos' grand slam...

I was fortunate enough to be present for both...



Makes me feel better after yesterday!

I was at both as well. I'm always able to take solice in the fact that no matter how bad the White Sox are, come June, they're always ready to ***** slap the Northsiders.

pudge
04-06-2004, 12:38 PM
I just flat out disagree... he did look a little lost at first, but recovered in most of his at bats... he smoked two balls, a liner to first and and a hard grounder to Sweeney... then he also executed a nice bunt... give the guy a chance, geez.

If you want to talk about overmatched, look to Jose and his horrid at bats VS. lefties. Valentin was by far the worst bat in the lineup yesterday, despite his RBI double.

I love that we're talking real baseball finally, even if it is after such a horrid game!

CubKilla
04-06-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by pudge
If you want to talk about overmatched, look to Jose and his horrid at bats VS. lefties. Valentin was by far the worst bat in the lineup yesterday, despite his RBI double.

It's going to take Valentin more than a few starts against lefties to get comfortable facing lefties from the LH batters box. You could make the same case for Harris. I'm not down on either..... yet.

Hokiesox
04-06-2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by poorme
I had to listen on the radio, but someone told me he hit the hardest ball of the day - a liner to 1B. I would imagine he doens't hit as well against lefties. He made some nice plays on defense.

In what will undoubtedly be the first of many MVP baseball references on this board, Willie sucks against lefties in that game. He's lousy against righties, but not as bad.

ode to veeck
04-06-2004, 12:51 PM
I'm not at all sold on Willie at the plate, but he did show more patience, did execute a bunt, and ripped a liner, rated as OK minus date at the plate

KingXerxes
04-06-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
It's going to take Valentin more than a few starts against lefties to get comfortable facing lefties from the LH batters box. You could make the same case for Harris. I'm not down on either..... yet.

I don't have too much confidence in Valentin being able to hit lefties batting from the left side. As soon as he gets comfortable facing lefties, the league will have re-discovered exactly why he turned around and batted righty in the first place. I dont know what his Achilles Heel is facing lefties from the left side - but rest assured the rest of the American League won't take long to figure it out. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm betting I'm not.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Hokiesox
In what will undoubtedly be the first of many MVP baseball references on this board, Willie sucks against lefties in that game. He's lousy against righties, but not as bad.

Shoot, I don't even know what Willie plays like in MVP baseball. Through May, I have not yet let him start one game. I've got Uribe in all my lineups lefty or righty, and his average has never dipped below .280.

I only use Willie to pinch run once in a while - about all a one tool player like him is good for, unless he's also lost a step! (which seemed to be the case in Spring)

StepsInSC
04-06-2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by poorme
I had to listen on the radio, but someone told me he hit the hardest ball of the day - a liner to 1B. I would imagine he doens't hit as well against lefties. He made some nice plays on defense.

I really did think that ball was hit that hard. It definitely wasn't a line shot, but I'm not convinced it would have even rolled to the outfield fence.

TaylorStSox
04-06-2004, 01:47 PM
We might as well talk about Maggs weak 14 million dollar ground balls with men on if we're going to bring this up.

If you thought that Willie truly looked "overmatched" then you need to reevaluate your opinions of decent AB's.

wdelaney72
04-06-2004, 02:00 PM
I don't care how hard he hits the ball. That's such crap. The fact is, he couldn't get on base.

Righty or lefty, Jose sucked last year. Our team who is so overly concerned about payroll and their "budget", wasted $5 million on a guy with a .237 average. Absolutely stupid.

jeremyb1
04-06-2004, 02:04 PM
Everyone always needs a scapegoat and apparently people have decided this years is Willie Harris because he hasn't played too well in extremely limited, sporadic major league at bats.

I thought Willie did a good job of working the count yesterday. In his first at bat he took a couple of good pitches to work the count full. That's not swinging and missing at all kinds of pitches out of the zone. As previously pointed out he scorched a ball that happened to be right at Sweeney. Should he have made a point to hit it two feet to the left or right? Then would everything be ok?

JC456
04-06-2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
I think the nugget of bad news that we're overloking here is that Willie looked truly overmatched in basically every at bat. His only 'production' was a sac bunt.

He looked every bit like the Willie Harris I've seen over the past two seasons - no stick, plenty of misplaced confidence.

I want the guy to succeed, but sheesh! It's hard to stay positive watching him swing the bat...

I want every White Sox player to succeed. Yet Willie had last season and ST to prove he could hit, and he can't. Another move by Manuel, oops I mean Guillen, sorry I thought I was watching a game from last year.

Uribe played very good in ST and then Willie gets the start. Maybe KW does run this team from the seats. Why doesn't he just go put a uniform on and manage like he thinks he can. At least it would be in the open and we all could talk more about it. Willie starting yesterday after his ST is purely political. Bah!!

poorme
04-06-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by JC456
Willie starting yesterday after his ST is purely political. Bah!!

Do you have ANY idea what his spring training batting average was?

Chisoxfn
04-06-2004, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
I think the nugget of bad news that we're overloking here is that Willie looked truly overmatched in basically every at bat. His only 'production' was a sac bunt.

He looked every bit like the Willie Harris I've seen over the past two seasons - no stick, plenty of misplaced confidence.

I want the guy to succeed, but sheesh! It's hard to stay positive watching him swing the bat...

Oh Wow, one game and were ready to asses his season. Jesus, what is with people and making this huge reactions to one game. Willie sucked early in spring and everyone was complaining, then he catches fire and some people get excited. One game and some people are ready to kill him again.

Good grief, lets all grow a little patience and relax.

And sorry to kind of jump out at you, its more most Sox fans in general. And I hope I wasn't the only who noticed Willie did a very good job working the count. In general I was impressed by how the Sox hitters worked the count and wore the pitcher out. The Royals had to go to the pen pretty early since Anderson had thrown so many pitches.

OEO Magglio
04-06-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
Oh Wow, one game and were ready to asses his season. Jesus, what is with people and making this huge reactions to one game. Willie sucked early in spring and everyone was complaining, then he catches fire and some people get excited. One game and some people are ready to kill him again.

Good grief, lets all grow a little patience and relax.

And sorry to kind of jump out at you, its more most Sox fans in general. And I hope I wasn't the only who noticed Willie did a very good job working the count. In general I was impressed by how the Sox hitters worked the count and wore the pitcher out. The Royals had to go to the pen pretty early since Anderson had thrown so many pitches.
Well said, that game hurt yesterday no doubt, but this team will be fine, we have 161 games left, and I actually didn't think willie was bad at all, he hit a couple of balls hard, worked the count a little bit, and was solid on defense, don't jump on him after one game.

pudge
04-06-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
I don't care how hard he hits the ball. That's such crap. The fact is, he couldn't get on base.


Then I really question how much you know about the game - would you rather have seen two duck-snort singles? That wouldn't prove much of anything in Willie's favor.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 04:59 PM
He was hot in AAA, too, hitting near .400. Did it help him against real MLB picthing in cooler weather? Not a bit. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Willie is near the end of the chances he should be given. He's had plenty of MLB AB's to show us something. All I've seen is a guy with very little idea of the strike zone and what (if any) his strengths are within it.

We've got to face it - the days of this team nucleus are numbered, unless they succeed this season. Thomas is nearing the end, Magglio deserves more than we can pay him, we still only have one young ace who might last a few years...

Basically, we can't sink this team's chances on a guy who "hit well in spring" or "hit well in AAA" but has never made the transition to the Show. If we get off to another slow start, we'll be seeing a very different starting lineup next year, or even by July - Borchard (WTP Willie) in right, Gload at first, Wee Willie as our "New Ray Durham" at 2nd...........

I don't want to rebuild again! Please! Enough! 3 rebuilding teams per city is enough! :whiner:

Why are we all so content with this constant tinkering, experimenting, pissing away season after season? It's as if people have bought the line that Satan has been selling - we're small market, this is the best we can do.

Why can other teams go after quality talent to truly compete for a playoff spot? I hate to say it, but look at the hated Cubs! Do they have Bobby Hill at 2nd (North Side Willie)? He hit well in AAA and Spring training, too.

poorme
04-06-2004, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
Why can other teams go after quality talent to truly compete for a playoff spot? I hate to say it, but look at the hated Cubs! Do they have Bobby Hill at 2nd (North Side Willie)? He hit well in AAA and Spring training, too.

Hill is the starting 2B for the Pirates.

hftrex
04-06-2004, 05:05 PM
Isn't it possible that the person responsible for all the tinkering is KW and it really doesn't matter who the manager is?

Randar68
04-06-2004, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
He was hot in AAA, too, hitting near .400. Did it help him against real MLB picthing in cooler weather? Not a bit. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Willie is near the end of the chances he should be given. He's had plenty of MLB AB's to show us something. All I've seen is a guy with very little idea of the strike zone and what (if any) his strengths are within it.

We've got to face it - the days of this team nucleus are numbered, unless they succeed this season. Thomas is nearing the end, Magglio deserves more than we can pay him, we still only have one young ace who might last a few years...

Basically, we can't sink this team's chances on a guy who "hit well in spring" or "hit well in AAA" but has never made the transition to the Show. If we get off to another slow start, we'll be seeing a very different starting lineup next year, or even by July - Borchard (WTP Willie) in right, Gload at first, Wee Willie as our "New Ray Durham" at 2nd...........

I don't want to rebuild again! Please! Enough! 3 rebuilding teams per city is enough! :whiner:

Why are we all so content with this constant tinkering, experimenting, pissing away season after season? It's as if people have bought the line that Satan has been selling - we're small market, this is the best we can do.

Why can other teams go after quality talent to truly compete for a playoff spot? I hate to say it, but look at the hated Cubs! Do they have Bobby Hill at 2nd (North Side Willie)? He hit well in AAA and Spring training, too.

:prozac

Sheeesh, dude, it's moron's like you who are the reason many people avoid this board like the plague after any kind of loss. 101 things to harp on, but a guy who saw 33 pitches in 5 AB's and had a nice sac bunt, smoked the ball 2 other times, and played solid defense is the target of your rage????

Get a clue.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
:prozac

Sheeesh, dude, it's moron's like you who are the reason many people avoid this board like the plague after any kind of loss. 101 things to harp on, but a guy who saw 33 pitches in 5 AB's and had a nice sac bunt, smoked the ball 2 other times, and played solid defense is the target of your rage????

Get a clue.

See post in "Ways to increase attencance at Sox Park" thread.

Thanks for your input. :P

Randar68
04-06-2004, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
See post in "Ways to increase attencance at Sox Park" thread.

Thanks for your input. :P

Like I said...

:prozac

Reality and facts are just too much for some people to face without chemical assistance.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Like I said...

:prozac

Reality and facts are just too much for some people to face without chemical assistance.

Some online research for you:

http://www.sla.purdue.edu/academic/engl/theory/psychoanalysis/definitions/transference.html


TRANSFERENCE: The displacement of one's unresolved conflicts, dependencies, and aggressions onto a substitute object (e.g. substituting a lover, spouse, etc. for one's parent). This operation can also occur in the psychoanalytical cure, when a patient transfers onto the analyst feelings that were previously directed to another object. By working through this transference of feelings onto the analyst, the patient can come to grips with the actual cause of his or her feelings.

OurBitchinMinny
04-06-2004, 11:16 PM
To me the two big offensive disappointments yesterday were rowand and crede. Harris got a sac bunt and ripped a solid line drive. I still dont understand why so many think rowand is the answer in CF because hes not