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View Full Version : The Case for Paulie


Whitesox029
04-05-2004, 09:33 PM
I know I have been beating this drum ever since I joined WSI in May 2002..in fact, the first thread I ever posted on was about who we would prefer to have, Mike Cameron or Paul Konerko. But am I the only one in all of the White Sox fandom who thinks Konerko is an asset to the team and should be retained? Everyone's talking about unloading his contract to free up his money for a starter. First off, we need a decent closer first, then a starter. Second, aren't we going to have enough money to sign someone halfway decent just with the money we save on Ordonez, Koch and Valentin combined? (I'm resigned to the fact that we must let Maggs go) Must we throw in Paul just because he had a bad season? Players have bad seasons, and the resilient ones bounce back from them. Believe it or not, he is ranked as one of the top defensive 1Bs in the AL. He will hit 30 HR, he will knock in 100 runs, and he will hit .300. I mean for crying out loud I picked him up 17th of 26 rounds in my fantasy draft! I was really happy and yet saddened at the same time. Needless to say I idolize him. Aside from the fact that he's a great hitter, he has the one quality I prize most in people I look up to: Humility. He never shows up an opposing pitcher, he never makes egotistical comments, and he refuses to say outright that he's good. Therefore he needs people like me to do it for him. Anyone who disagrees better have a darn good reason to completely discount everything I've said here.
:walnuts
#14 stays--because I said so

SoxFan76
04-05-2004, 09:54 PM
Paulie's a gamer. You gotta respect that. Guys like him and Koch work their asses off, and it has showed for PK. Koch, we'll have to see. Paul is a damn good baseball player, and 90 percent of the members here let the worst season in his entire baseball career dictate what kind of player he really is.

By the way, I am not basing this solely because he went 3-4 with a SB today, I am very confident he can go .300 30 100 this season.

On top of that, he's a class act , which are hard to come by with the Bonds, Sosa's and Zambrano's of the game.

A. Cavatica
04-05-2004, 09:54 PM
You lost me when you called him a great hitter.

At best he's an average hitter for a first baseman, and he makes too much money. I'd love him at 50% of his current salary.

SoxFan76
04-05-2004, 09:58 PM
When a hitter is EASILY capable of hitting .300 with 25-30 HR's, I don't consider them average. Maybe your idea of average is different than mine. Paulie is definitely above average.

A. Cavatica
04-05-2004, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
When a hitter is EASILY capable of hitting .300 with 25-30 HR's, I don't consider them average. Maybe your idea of average is different than mine. Paulie is definitely above average.

An average first baseman is capable of hitting .300 with 25-30 HRs.

Try looking up Paulie's stats and comparing them to other first basemen before you make such a silly statement.

Whitesox029
04-05-2004, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
An average first baseman is capable of hitting .300 with 25-30 HRs.

Try looking up Paulie's stats and comparing them to other first basemen before you make such a silly statement.
Answer me this: If Paulie is let go, who is going to play first? Frank? no. Even if he does, who's gonna DH? Uribe? Harris? Look me in my virtual eye and tell me that anyone the Sox can replace Paulie with in the lineup will be a better hitter.

SoxFan76
04-05-2004, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
An average first baseman is capable of hitting .300 with 25-30 HRs.

Try looking up Paulie's stats and comparing them to other first basemen before you make such a silly statement.

You're right, 1st base is an offensive position. But who else can we get that is equal or greater without breaking the bank? There are a lot worse than Paulie out there. I still consider him above average. If the Sox let him go, put Frank at first, then they would need another DH. So basically the Sox are shopping for another 1B/DH type, or a fat outfielder. In the end, I still want Konerko.

A. Cavatica
04-05-2004, 10:12 PM
Hitters like Konerko are easy to replace. Ross Gload could turn out to be just as good, for chrissake. But he doesn't have to be exactly as good, he just has to be adequate, because he costs 8 MILLION DOLLARS LESS THAN THAT OVERPAID SACK OF ****!

Spend the 8 mil where it would actually make a difference.

Whitesox029
04-05-2004, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
You're right, 1st base is an offensive position. But who else can we get that is equal or greater without breaking the bank? There are a lot worse than Paulie out there. I still consider him above average. If the Sox let him go, put Frank at first, then they would need another DH. So basically the Sox are shopping for another 1B/DH type, or a fat outfielder. In the end, I still want Konerko.
........Echoing my statement. Thanks, 76, I didn't actually expect support in this thread.

SoxFan76
04-05-2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by Whitesox029
........Echoing my statement. Thanks, 76, I didn't actually expect support in this thread.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a broken record. I was just stating my opinion.

Whitesox029
04-05-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
Hitters like Konerko are easy to replace. Ross Gload could turn out to be just as good, for chrissake. But he doesn't have to be exactly as good, he just has to be adequate, because he costs 8 MILLION DOLLARS LESS THAN THAT OVERPAID SACK OF ****!

Spend the 8 mil where it would actually make a difference.
As a Sox fan you should know that hitters like that are never easy to replace. Have you ever played Yahtzee? If so, did you ever get a Large Straight in 2 rolls and then try to roll again just for the heck of it and see if you get the large straight again? If you don't know Yahtzee then you've just killed my analogy. To put it simply, you can't just keep throwing away quality players in the hopes that youngsters are going to step in right where the traded player left off. Remember the Sox' "shortstop of the future" from 1999 or so? His name was Mike Caruso and he's out of baseball. Even if Gload does fill the place effectively, he's eventually going to be asking the same money as Konerko is now, and you'll be pulling for us to trade him away. It's a vicious cycle that must be stopped.

If you think Konerko is an "overpaid sack of ****," then I don't think you could voice your opinion of, say, Billy Koch without being forever banned from the board.
If Konerko is not worth 8 mil, then who, in your opinion, is worth that amount?

Whitesox029
04-05-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a broken record. I was just stating my opinion.
I just assumed that you posted it without reading mine first... we probably typed them at the same time. Saying it more than once gets the point across more clearly anyway.

soxnut
04-05-2004, 10:51 PM
:walnuts :cool:

Hangar18
04-05-2004, 11:22 PM
Paulie Looked Really Good At the Plate today......and strangely, I might add he looked in Better Shape than last year, getting a better swing on the ball. If we can keep him at a better rate, I would do it. Lets Stop this "we can save money without Maggs" bit. Im tired of it. Its this REINSDORFIAN way of thinking that has Got us in this spot to begin with. KOCH really sucks and we got him because we thought we'd be saving "arbitration" money with Foulke.

JohnBasedowYoda
04-06-2004, 01:29 AM
konerko is still one of my faves

HITMEN OF 77
04-06-2004, 02:14 AM
Konerko is my favorite player and I was so happy that he had a great opening day. Hope he keeps it up and the Sox can get on track now.

red faber
04-06-2004, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by Whitesox029
I know I have been beating this drum ever since I joined WSI in May 2002..in fact, the first thread I ever posted on was about who we would prefer to have, Mike Cameron or Paul Konerko. But am I the only one in all of the White Sox fandom who thinks Konerko is an asset to the team and should be retained? Everyone's talking about unloading his contract to free up his money for a starter. First off, we need a decent closer first, then a starter. Second, aren't we going to have enough money to sign someone halfway decent just with the money we save on Ordonez, Koch and Valentin combined? (I'm resigned to the fact that we must let Maggs go) Must we throw in Paul just because he had a bad season? Players have bad seasons, and the resilient ones bounce back from them. Believe it or not, he is ranked as one of the top defensive 1Bs in the AL. He will hit 30 HR, he will knock in 100 runs, and he will hit .300. I mean for crying out loud I picked him up 17th of 26 rounds in my fantasy draft! I was really happy and yet saddened at the same time. Needless to say I idolize him. Aside from the fact that he's a great hitter, he has the one quality I prize most in people I look up to: Humility. He never shows up an opposing pitcher, he never makes egotistical comments, and he refuses to say outright that he's good. Therefore he needs people like me to do it for him. Anyone who disagrees better have a darn good reason to completely discount everything I've said here.
:walnuts
#14 stays--because I said so


we may have had our difference of opinions on whether sox fans should go out to the ball park more,but this is one thing i will agreewith you on.

maybe paulie is over paid but you know what,you could also say that for most baseball players.and whose fault is it that paulie is making so much money anyway????
it's not like he forced the sox to pay him that much money
the fact is ,paulie is a gamer!!!he is a good clubhouse guy,and he is one of the best players in baseball when he is right.(and i have absolutely no reason to believe that he won't be right this season.)

paulie stays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

red faber
04-06-2004, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
Hitters like Konerko are easy to replace. Ross Gload could turn out to be just as good, for chrissake. But he doesn't have to be exactly as good, he just has to be adequate, because he costs 8 MILLION DOLLARS LESS THAN THAT OVERPAID SACK OF ****!

Spend the 8 mil where it would actually make a difference.


okay,what if gload becomes a kickass 1st baseman and asks for more,if not as much as what paulie is making???????

will you be campaigning to let him go as well?????????????

paulie stays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MisterB
04-06-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
You're right, 1st base is an offensive position. But who else can we get that is equal or greater without breaking the bank? There are a lot worse than Paulie out there. I still consider him above average. If the Sox let him go, put Frank at first, then they would need another DH. So basically the Sox are shopping for another 1B/DH type, or a fat outfielder. In the end, I still want Konerko.

Richie Sexson is comparable and making a little over $5M.
Derrek Lee is about 90% as good at 55% the salary.
Guys like Daubach, David Ortiz or Kevin Millar aren't much worse and can be had dirt cheap.

Considering we have Thomas, Ordonez and Lee in the heart of the lineup, I wouldn't mind a slight offensive downgrade at 1B if the cash saved can help get a legitimate top-of-the-order hitter or a good starting pitcher (or bullpen help).

A. Cavatica
04-06-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by red faber
okay,what if gload becomes a kickass 1st baseman and asks for more,if not as much as what paulie is making???????

will you be campaigning to let him go as well?????????????

paulie stays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talk to me when either one of them becomes a kickass first baseman.

Look, I'm happy Paulie had 3 hits yesterday, but it wasn't entirely unexpected. He destroys lefties. Let's see where he is at the end of the season.

I'll bet his OPS will be in the middle of the pack (say, 5th to 10th) among qualifying AL first basemen.

Whitesox029
04-07-2004, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
Talk to me when either one of them becomes a kickass first baseman.

By this statement you seem to be proving our point more than yours...we're basically saying that it's not likely, which is why we need to keep Paulie around.

A. Cavatica
04-07-2004, 10:49 PM
No, if neither one of them is a kickass first baseman -- and Paulie certainly isn't -- then fill the position with the cheaper player.

$8M is too much to spend on a player who's league average at his position.

A. Cavatica
04-07-2004, 11:07 PM
Dug out some numbers on Konerko.

In his four best seasons, his OPS was around .855, and he was never higher than the 5th best first baseman in the AL (by that stat).

And that ignores 440 ABs in 2003 when his OPS was .704 and 217 ABs in 1998 when his OPS was .608. His career OPS is just .813.

Brian Daubach's career OPS is .823, so trust me when I say we can replace Konerko for a fraction of what we're paying him.

JC456
04-07-2004, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
You lost me when you called him a great hitter.

At best he's an average hitter for a first baseman, and he makes too much money. I'd love him at 50% of his current salary.

Everyone makes too much money!!!!