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jeremyb1
04-01-2004, 12:08 PM
According to Bob Nightengale, the organizatino considers Takatsu a "vast dissapointment" and would've already released him if not for his 1 million dollar guaranteed contract. Good thing KW got a veteran from Japan that's 35 and on the downside of his career.

SoxxoS
04-01-2004, 12:20 PM
This PR move is working out great.

Matsui? Ishiro? Nomo? Ha.

We manage to find the one import from Japan who isn't very good. Does that really shock anyone?

You have to ask yourself, why did so many other teams pass on him. The White Sox aren't pioneers at doing anything.

Tekijawa
04-01-2004, 12:21 PM
I think it would be even worse if we lose Grilli, although it looks like he's heading to charlotte, because he's taking up a roster spot! Maybe we can try him fourth in the rotation next year?

Tekijawa
04-01-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
You have to ask yourself, why did so many other teams pass on him. The White Sox aren't pioneers at doing anything.

Here's my guess as to what happened...

The Sox show up they are one of 20 something teams there, they really don't like what they see but they enter a low ball Courtesy bid thinking that they wouldn't get the contract because there would be many other high bidders.... A few days later some Japanese guy shows up at 35th and Shields with bags in hand... Kenny had been fooled again!

jeremyb1
04-01-2004, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
This PR move is working out great.

Matsui? Ishiro? Nomo? Ha.

We manage to find the one import from Japan who isn't very good. Does that really shock anyone?

You have to ask yourself, why did so many other teams pass on him. The White Sox aren't pioneers at doing anything.

My question is why didn't we even pursue Otsuka?! He's from Japan, he was a closer there, he was signed for a similar amount of money. The major difference is that he performed better than Takatsu in Japan in recent years and he's young enough that he's in his prime. If we needed bullpen help and liked the PR potential of a Japanese player on the club why didn't we even look into Otsuka?!

anewman35
04-01-2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
If we needed bullpen help and liked the PR potential of a Japanese player on the club why didn't we even look into Otsuka?!

How do you know we didn't even look into Otsuka?

Baby Fisk
04-01-2004, 12:33 PM
:KW

"How was I supposed to know the atmospheric conditions in Japan are more conducive to his change up? You find me one scout who tracks the Correspondant Reaction of Atmosphere to Pitches [C.R.A.P.]. But hey now, check out my man Koch. Lookin' good, huh? Lookin' mighty good..."

fledgedrallycap
04-01-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
According to Bob Nightengale, the organizatino considers Takatsu a "vast dissapointment" and would've already released him if not for his 1 million dollar guaranteed contract. Good thing KW got a veteran from Japan that's 35 and on the downside of his career.

If true, yet another example of small market mentality. A one million dollar contact is nothing by today's stardards.

jeremyb1
04-01-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
How do you know we didn't even look into Otsuka?

Just because despite reading all the Sox stories in the paper and all the major national columnists (Gammons, Rosenthal, Stark, Verducci, etc.) I never heard that we were a team pursuing him.

soxnut
04-01-2004, 12:42 PM
I suppose since we're stuck with him, he'll just be used to face one or two right-handed batters, and then get him out of there. :(:

SoxxoS
04-01-2004, 12:46 PM
You can guarantee this is going to cost us a few games, just because Kenny doesn't want to get egg on his face so early in the season.

What most likely will happen is a "Wag the Dog" scenario. We will make a big trade, and then release Takatsu at the same time. I predict something like that, b/c this is turning into a disaster.

SEALgep
04-01-2004, 12:46 PM
He had a rough start, but he's settled in since. I think this is blown out of proportion. He will still be an effective setup man for us. He may not be lights out, but he is good enough to get the job done.

soxnut
04-01-2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
He had a rough start, but he's settled in since. I think this is blown out of proportion. He will still be an effective setup man for us. He may not be lights out, but he is good enough to get the job done.

I guess you could be right. I think I want to give him a chance before I dog him anymore. I want him to succeed, but probably at the beginning, they should look at only letting him pitch to a couple of batters, just in case.

SEALgep
04-01-2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
I guess you could be right. I think I want to give him a chance before I dog him anymore. I want him to succeed, but probably at the beginning, they should look at only letting him pitch to a couple of batters, just in case. Definitely not more than an inning at a time to start with. His last outing he retired three batters on three pitches. Maybe we should put a two pitch limit on him. Lol. :D:

soxnut
04-01-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Definitely not more than an inning at a time to start with. His last outing he retired three batters on three pitches. Maybe we should put a two pitch limit on him. Lol. :D:




LOL :D:

white sox bill
04-01-2004, 02:00 PM
Written him off already? This is mid-summer right? Be different if it was April 1....

maurice
04-01-2004, 04:57 PM
Some of us wrote him off the day the signing was announced.

jeremyb1
04-01-2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
He had a rough start, but he's settled in since. I think this is blown out of proportion. He will still be an effective setup man for us. He may not be lights out, but he is good enough to get the job done.

Two problems. First of all, spring stats are of little importance. Second, those last three scoreless outings span about two innings, hardly a large sample size.

Foulke You
04-01-2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by white sox bill
Written him off already? This is mid-summer right? Be different if it was April 1....

Amen. At least wait for the games to count before you chock him up as a failure. If he has a 1.75 E.R.A. in May, you'll all be singing his praises. I'll wait for the season to start and see how he does when he is out of that bright sunshine and light Arizona air.

joecrede
04-01-2004, 05:30 PM
Money misspent this year by Williams:

Schoenweis $1,700,000
Takatsu $1,000,000
Wunsch $800,000
Alomar $750,000


Sanders and Rivera could possibly outperform the duo of Wunsch and Alomar this season and do it for the minimum.

That leaves about $3.6M to do better than Schoenweis and Takatsu for a 5th starter and middle reliever.

anewman35
04-01-2004, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Sanders and Rivera could possibly outperform the duo of Wunsch and Alomar this season and do it for the minimum.

Or, they could possibly be horrible. Where would we be then?

lowesox
04-01-2004, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by white sox bill
Written him off already? This is mid-summer right? Be different if it was April 1....

You have to admit, it's a little concerning. Here's a guy who's been shelled by low level minor leaguers when he's obviously trying to make a good impression.

MikeW
04-01-2004, 10:21 PM
Gosh, give the guy a chance. Wait at least until the season gets underway.

SEALgep
04-02-2004, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Two problems. First of all, spring stats are of little importance. Second, those last three scoreless outings span about two innings, hardly a large sample size. Well if spring stats don't mean much, what's the problem? And if it's three scoreless innings, that's three innings, not two. Baseball is a game of what have you done for me lately, and lately he has showed up and shown he's ready for the real deal. Whatever he had to figure out, it looks like he did. And if it took him the majority of ST to do it, so be it. All I care about is from April 5th to the end. I stand by my first impressions of him being a good addition.

jeremyb1
04-02-2004, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Well if spring stats don't mean much, what's the problem? And if it's three scoreless innings, that's three innings, not two. Baseball is a game of what have you done for me lately, and lately he has showed up and shown he's ready for the real deal. Whatever he had to figure out, it looks like he did. And if it took him the majority of ST to do it, so be it. All I care about is from April 5th to the end. I stand by my first impressions of him being a good addition.

The problem is his age, his record of declining performance in Japan as he has aged, and his unimpressive season in Japan last year.

poorme
04-02-2004, 10:52 AM
He seemed to settle down after getting killed in his first few appearances. I think he pitched 9 innings, 13 hits, 9 K, 3 BB, 1HR. the K/BB ratio suggests he may be able to survive. I don't have any high hopes though. I think I'd feel more confident with him on the mound than with Koch.

Hangar18
04-02-2004, 11:21 AM
How do you say "Bring White Sox Great Honor" in Japanese ??
Maybe if I yell that from my seats while hes warming up......
he will feel pumped ....

Baby Fisk
04-02-2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by MikeW
Gosh, give the guy a chance. Wait at least until the season gets underway.

You're right. I agree. Everyone take a deep breath and relax.

We'll have a more genuine cause for concern when we are 0-6. :D:

jeremyb1
04-02-2004, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by poorme
He seemed to settle down after getting killed in his first few appearances. I think he pitched 9 innings, 13 hits, 9 K, 3 BB, 1HR. the K/BB ratio suggests he may be able to survive. I don't have any high hopes though. I think I'd feel more confident with him on the mound than with Koch.

You're right that his peripheral numbers are pretty good, another reason not to read too much into spring but the problem is that his peripherals weren't nearly that good in Japan. As I've said all along, his only real chance at success is that his delivery and pitching style are so unorthodox that he fools MLB players since they haven't seen him before.

Tekijawa
04-02-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Money misspent this year by Williams:

Schoenweis $1,700,000
Takatsu $1,000,000
Wunsch $800,000
Alomar $750,000


Sanders and Rivera could possibly outperform the duo of Wunsch and Alomar this season and do it for the minimum.

That leaves about $3.6M to do better than Schoenweis and Takatsu for a 5th starter and middle reliever.

I think you forgot:

Valentin $5,000,000 (With out even trying to negotiate)
Pauly $8,500,000? (athough he didn't sign this this past offseason)

joecrede
04-02-2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Sanders and Rivera could possibly outperform the duo of Wunsch and Alomar this season and do it for the minimum.

Originally posted by anewman35
Or, they could possibly be horrible. Where would we be then?

Even if Alomar were the best back-up catcher and Wunsch the best lefty specialist reliever and Rivera and Sanders were awful replacement it still wouldn't make up for the differences in salary between them. Those positions have little effect on wins and losses.

hold2dibber
04-02-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Money misspent this year by Williams:

Schoenweis $1,700,000
Takatsu $1,000,000
Wunsch $800,000
Alomar $750,000


Sanders and Rivera could possibly outperform the duo of Wunsch and Alomar this season and do it for the minimum.

That leaves about $3.6M to do better than Schoenweis and Takatsu for a 5th starter and middle reliever.

I don't how you can possibly think that Sanders would be anywhere near as good as Wunsch. I agree with everything else, though.

SEALgep
04-02-2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I don't how you can possibly think that Sanders would be anywhere near as good as Wunsch. I agree with everything else, though. I would rather see Ryan Meaux take over Wunsch's duties as a lefty specialist in the future if he cannot continue.

santo=dorf
04-02-2004, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Money misspent this year by Williams:

Schoenweis $1,700,000
Takatsu $1,000,000
Wunsch $800,000
Alomar $750,000


Sanders and Rivera could possibly outperform the duo of Wunsch and Alomar this season and do it for the minimum.

That leaves about $3.6M to do better than Schoenweis and Takatsu for a 5th starter and middle reliever.

Sanders has looked terrible this spring, and Olivo isn't calling games yet. I have no problem bringing Alomar back.

Mohoney
04-04-2004, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Amen. At least wait for the games to count before you chock him up as a failure. If he has a 1.75 E.R.A. in May, you'll all be singing his praises. I'll wait for the season to start and see how he does when he is out of that bright sunshine and light Arizona air.

Exactly. If he lays an egg in April and May, then go ahead and complain. I think the guy will do fine. I think Action Jackson will do fine.

Billy Koch, on the other hand...

TheRockinMT
04-04-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
He had a rough start, but he's settled in since. I think this is blown out of proportion. He will still be an effective setup man for us. He may not be lights out, but he is good enough to get the job done.

I agree. Arizona in the Spring is not the right spot to gauge a veteran of the Japanese baseball leagues. I think he showed enough nasty stuff to make the Sox believe that he can make it here. Once the season starts I think we will see an effective Shingo and be glad we got him.

ondafarm
04-04-2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
I agree. Arizona in the Spring is not the right spot to gauge a veteran of the Japanese baseball leagues. I think he showed enough nasty stuff to make the Sox believe that he can make it here. Once the season starts I think we will see an effective Shingo and be glad we got him.


Takatsu will be effective in spots. Hey, it took him awhile to settle into relief in Japan, but he'll be fine.

ondafarm
04-04-2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
He had a rough start, but he's settled in since. I think this is blown out of proportion. He will still be an effective setup man for us. He may not be lights out, but he is good enough to get the job done.


Gambatte kudasi ne !!!!!