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View Full Version : Rick Telander says Fans dont Care about Steroids. What BS


Hangar18
03-31-2004, 09:51 AM
this jackass even goes so far as to suggest it was GREAT
that Sammy hit all of those homeruns, including the ones
that rattled around Miller Park during the HR Derby. This is
the kind of Irresponsible "kiley-esque" Journalism that will
ruin the game for good .............

http://www.suntimes.com/output/telander/cst-spt-rick31.html

poorme
03-31-2004, 09:56 AM
I think he's basically right. The "average" fan doesn't care about steroids.

Jerko
03-31-2004, 10:00 AM
The "Average" fan is a mindless lemming. Too bad that seems to be all that's left.

Hangar18
03-31-2004, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by poorme
I think he's basically right. The "average" fan doesn't care about steroids.

If his story was just that, "average fan doesnt care" that would be ok. His angle shouldve then been "Average Fan SHOULD CARE about steroids". Hes irresponsible by saying the homeruns were great for the game. its nonsense. Take A Stand telander, and dont Kiley out on us

SSN721
03-31-2004, 10:08 AM
I think the only people that care are those that respect the history, tradition, and hallowed records of the game. And since History and tradition seem to fall to the wayside more and more each generation (especially mine) a general lack of respect and morals are shown for just about anything that was once held dear and sacred. Very sad.

Veeky
03-31-2004, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
The "Average" fan is a mindless lemming. Too bad that seems to be all that's left.

You forgot "morally-compromised" before mindless lemming. Basically, they're the same people who don't give a **** about Arrah's "adventures" as long as he makes that sweet and sexy music.

I for one could never look at Sosa's, Giambi's, Bonds's, Boone's, Mac's and Canseco's HRs as legitimate. Mike North is an idiot, but when he says Roger Maris is still the real HR record-holder, I tend to agree.

Thomas, Griffey, Edgar on the other hand I tend to view more favorably, but there is always a chance....

minastirith67
03-31-2004, 10:31 AM
Maybe I'm a bit lost, but why should the average fan care about steroids? Just cuz Dubya talked about it in the SOTU address doesn't mean it's as serious as the FDA and the gubmint make it out to believe. And if players use steroids, so what? If it's such an unfair advantage, why don't more players use them then? I'm tired of these so-called witch hunts to nab suspected players using "illegal drugs".

SSN721
03-31-2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by minastirith67
Maybe I'm a bit lost, but why should the average fan care about steroids? Just cuz Dubya talked about it in the SOTU address doesn't mean it's as serious as the FDA and the gubmint make it out to believe. And if players use steroids, so what? If it's such an unfair advantage, why don't more players use them then? I'm tired of these so-called witch hunts to nab suspected players using "illegal drugs".

I hope this is supposed to be in teal and you just forgot. It is unfair becuase everyone doesnt use it, so it is cheating. And the reason all of them dont use it is they realize the health risks it poses or just decide to work harder with their diet and workout regimens to get to their performance level. Not to mention the effect it would have on young people if players were openly taking it and basically telling them it is okay and expected to perform at that level. They are illegal, by law they are illegal. Technically getting caught with them is like getting caught with any other "illegal drug" . This society is already becoming so morally compromised would be nice for some shred of tradition and standards be upheld in this sport.

mantis1212
03-31-2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by minastirith67
Maybe I'm a bit lost, but why should the average fan care about steroids? Just cuz Dubya talked about it in the SOTU address doesn't mean it's as serious as the FDA and the gubmint make it out to believe. And if players use steroids, so what? If it's such an unfair advantage, why don't more players use them then? I'm tired of these so-called witch hunts to nab suspected players using "illegal drugs".

The average fan should care because baseball should be about the best, most talented players and teams winning, not about which player's bodies react best to steriods. Remember, these steriods ARE "illegal" (the point of your quotes is lost on me). Most players don't use them because of just that reason, not to mention side effects such as shrunken testicles.

If steriod use becomes more common, it will be NECESSARY to take them in order to make the big leagues. The average high school or college player should not have to risk his life with needles in order to have his natural talents taken seriously.

Jerko
03-31-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by minastirith67
Maybe I'm a bit lost, but why should the average fan care about steroids? Just cuz Dubya talked about it in the SOTU address doesn't mean it's as serious as the FDA and the gubmint make it out to believe. And if players use steroids, so what? If it's such an unfair advantage, why don't more players use them then? I'm tired of these so-called witch hunts to nab suspected players using "illegal drugs".

I don't really give a rat's butt about who uses steroids on a personal level (it IS cheating however), but at least ADMIT it and quit lying to us as if we were gullible 3rd graders who believe anything that is forced on us and quit hiding behind some brutal CBA after "volunteering" to be tested. We know nobody is gonna do that. If nobody cares about steroids, then I don't want to hear those same nobodies complaining that the DH or interleague play has ruined the "integrity" or the "tradition" of the game. I also don't want to hear that "no player is bigger than the game" when it comes to Pete Rose when scumbags like Sosa and Bonds both obviously are. I bet the first pitcher who takes a Scammy steroid-induced, cork-aided liner off the head and gets his career ended will care who uses steroids or not though.

daslobo
03-31-2004, 10:58 AM
First off, steroids are dangerous to the user. There have been deaths and serious kidney failure attribute to their usage. In addition to baldness, acne, and a shriveled up sakajawea (which can continue on to sterility) there are also serious consequences to the rapid growth and hormonal changes in the body.

Secondly, there is the moral issue. Kids are watching this and will take notice if we reward the performance of these clowns regardless of how they acheived the results. There is enough moral ambiguity out there without baseball.

Finally, I am disgusted by what these inflated statistics have done to the legacy of the game. They are degrading the real acheivements of the games' past greats. Are Mark McGuire, Sammy Soso, and Barry Bonds the equals of Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, and Hank Aaron? Not without the drugs they aren't.

Bud Selig has done irreparable harm to baseball under his watch and nothing has been worse than allowing this steroid use to go on unchecked. He should be run out of the game along with the cheaters he allowed to prosper. In the very least, there needs to be some real thought to adding an asterix next to all statistics and records for the last 10 years.

Foulke You
03-31-2004, 11:34 AM
This was the best quote of the article:

"His old bat corkage (you do recall that splintered bat against the Tampa Bay Devil Rays last June 3, don't you?) already is changing from a low form of cheating to quirky, colorful lore. For those, as noted, who even remember."

***??!!! It is only "quirky, colorful lore" to idiot Cubs fans who don't know any better. Most baseball fans viewed it as the cheating that it was as Sammy got verbally abused in visiting parks for the first time in his career.

"For those, as noted, who even remember." was a great quote as well. It's only forgotten because the Chicago media quickly buried the issue one week after it happened. With guys like Kiley and Tribune Tower scrambling, "Operation Sammy Damage Control" was a grand success as the guy's image is still as squeaky clean as ever.

ewokpelts
03-31-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Veeky
You forgot "morally-compromised" before mindless lemming. It's the same people who don't give a **** about Arrah's "adventures" as long as he makes that sweet and sexy music.

I for one could never look at Sosa's, Giambi's, Bonds's, Boone's, Mac's and Canseco's HRs as legitimate. Mike North is an idiot, but when he says Roger Maris is still the real HR record-holder, I tend to agree.

Thomas, Griffey, Edgar on the other hand I ten to view more favorably, but there is always a chance....

Arrah? Are you referring to R. Kelly?
Gene

WSox8404
03-31-2004, 11:39 AM
Telander is getting close to the level of stupidity shown by Moronotti. Sad.

Veeky
03-31-2004, 11:46 AM
Arrah? Are you referring to R. Kelly?

What do you think?

Veeky
03-31-2004, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by minastirith67
Maybe I'm a bit lost, but why should the average fan care about steroids? Just cuz Dubya talked about it in the SOTU address doesn't mean it's as serious as the FDA and the gubmint make it out to believe. And if players use steroids, so what? If it's such an unfair advantage, why don't more players use them then? I'm tired of these so-called witch hunts to nab suspected players using "illegal drugs".

And to think you're only a year younger than me....

Jerko
03-31-2004, 11:50 AM
About a year ago me and a couple of my buddies coached a 7th and 8th grade football team. The other day we all went out and one of my co-coaches got a call from a kid that was on our football team who is now going out for his high school baseball team, and his high school coach already "steered" him towards steroids. He didn't out and out offer them to the kid, but now knows where to get em. The kid is 15! Luckily he's a smart kid and has an old coach he can call who steers him clear of that crap, but not every kid is gonna have those same advantages. THAT'S why these MLB clowns should not use steroids. I know I said the pros who use should admit it, but even that would give some kids the wrong idea unless they (the pros) actually get in trouble for it instead of having their behavior glorified because it's cool to hit homers for the fans who can't pay attention long enough if nobody hits one.

ma_deuce
03-31-2004, 12:02 PM
Admittedly, steroids is better for the business of baseball. However, I am not interested in the business aspect of baseball. I am interested in competition between two teams. I want to see what years of hard work, dedication, and talent results in... not what a few visits to the back alley pharmacist induces.

If I wanted to see a bunch of guys hit homers, I'd give them all aluminum bats and call the pitch at every throw. That is not baseball.

Deuce

rmusacch
03-31-2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
this jackass even goes so far as to suggest it was GREAT
that Sammy hit all of those homeruns, including the ones
that rattled around Miller Park during the HR Derby. This is
the kind of Irresponsible "kiley-esque" Journalism that will
ruin the game for good .............

http://www.suntimes.com/output/telander/cst-spt-rick31.html

Henry, I usually think you are crazy but this is insane. To call it low level cheating. Can you imagine if Frank had been caught with cork in his bat? He would never hear the end of it.

mweflen
03-31-2004, 03:49 PM
Hmm. Let me say first I hate the use of steroids and support the "asterixing" of any players who can be proven to have used them in their careers.

On the other hand:

1. While they help you bulk up and become stronger by reducing recovery times, steroids and HGH do not help your eyes actually see the ball, and your brain relay signals to your muscles to make contact with it. The only realistic effect of steroids i could see would be hitting the ball farther due to increased strength.

So, if a guy is hitting the ball 475 feet instead of 425, he's essentially just an idiot for using steroids, he's not actually getting any statistical boost.

But if a guy is hitting 425 instead of 375, then he's definitely received an unfair boost.

Either way, it's wrong, I just wonder how much it actually helps a batter.

2. Steroid use among pitchers is underrepresented in stories in the media (and among fans, it seems). Does anybody doubt that Clemens was on roids at some point, after watching his disgraceful rage fit against Piazza in 2000? You see guys who threy 91 a year previous throwing 94 and 95 the next, with bigger upper bodies. I don't think it's a coincidence. Random testing surpassed the 5-7% barrier last year - how many of those were pitchers, not batters?

As far as Telander goes, I think some of you are missing the sarcasm and lament that it pretty obvious in his article.

"If a restaurant was found to have tainted food or a movie theater was found to have rodents running loose, patrons would stay away quickly and in droves."

This does not sound like a guy who thinks steroids are truly good for the game - he's calling out fans who don't care, basically saying they're enjoying the equivalent of a rat-infested restaurant.

And he's essentially calling Cubs fans idiots:

"And the Cubs -- oh my goodness, the mythical Cubs -- have drawn nothing but sellouts in Arizona."

He's lampooning the preseason anointing of the Cubs as WS champs, as well as the fans forgetfulness over an incident of cheating that was on national television:

"The Cubs' star player, Sammy Sosa, is a slugger who has long been in the center of the steroid-taking-allegation storm.

And how big a turnoff is that?

Slammin' Sammy is more beloved than ever.

His old bat corkage (you do recall that splintered bat against the Tampa Bay Devil Rays last June 3, don't you?) already is changing from a low form of cheating to quirky, colorful lore. For those, as noted, who even remember."

Give the guy a break. He's on the anti-steroid side. But he sure did a good job of riling up some emotion!

Veeky
03-31-2004, 04:32 PM
1. While they help you bulk up and become stronger by reducing recovery times, steroids and HGH do not help your eyes actually see the ball, and your brain relay signals to your muscles to make contact with it. The only realistic effect of steroids i could see would be hitting the ball farther due to increased strength.

So, if a guy is hitting the ball 475 feet instead of 425, he's essentially just an idiot for using steroids, he's not actually getting any statistical boost.

But if a guy is hitting 425 instead of 375, then he's definitely received an unfair boost.

Either way, it's wrong, I just wonder how much it actually helps a batter.

2. Steroid use among pitchers is underrepresented in stories in the media (and among fans, it seems). Does anybody doubt that Clemens was on roids at some point, after watching his disgraceful rage fit against Piazza in 2000? You see guys who threy 91 a year previous throwing 94 and 95 the next, with bigger upper bodies. I don't think it's a coincidence. Random testing surpassed the 5-7% barrier last year - how many of those were pitchers, not batters?

1. You are wrong. The increase in strenght and quickness they provide favorably affects BATSPEED. The roider doesn't just hit the ball further (in itself is cheating as what Mike Schmidt called warning trackers become home-runs) -- he is able to turn what otherwise been a blooping line-out into a liner into the gap, in effect turning an out into a hit.

2. The reason why it's under-reported is because pitching relies less on pure athleticism than on mechanics and endurance, so there is much less incentive for pitchers to juice. Whatever increase in arm speed it may provide will be cancelled by the fact that the bulking up will affect said mechanics and, more importantly, the body will not be able to handle the abuse of throwing 150 pitches (with warm-up) at maximum force. Have you seen Sammy Sosa's throwing motion lately?

And Clemens? Bad example -- the freak of nature came up throwing 95-99 mph and carried 93-94mph fastball into his 40's ala Nolan Ryan. The Piazza episode is meaningless.

Point still stands: anyone who is a fan of the game and cares about the future generations of young athletes and society as a whole should be outraged. Then again, those people have probably known for more than a decade just what a friggin' farce the Juice Era (1993-2002) has been.

mweflen
03-31-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
1. You are wrong. The increase in strenght and quickness they provide favorably affects BATSPEED. The roider doesn't just hit the ball further (in itself is cheating as what Mike Schmidt called warning trackers become home-runs) -- he is able to turn what otherwise been a blooping line-out into a liner into the gap, in effect turning an out into a hit.

2. The reason why it's under-reported is because pitching relies less on pure athleticism than on mechanics and endurance, so there is much less incentive for pitchers to juice. Whatever increase in arm speed it may provide will be cancelled by the fact that the bulking up will affect said mechanics and, more importantly, the body will not be able to handle the abuse of throwing 150 pitches (with warm-up) at maximum force. Have you seen Sammy Sosa's throwing motion lately?

And Clemens? Bad example -- the freak of nature came up throwing 95-99 mph and carried 93-94mph fastball into his 40's ala Nolan Ryan. The Piazza episode is meaningless.

Point still stands: anyone who is a fan of the game and cares about the future generations of young athletes and society as a whole should be outraged. Then again, those people have probably known for more than a decade just what a friggin' farce the Juice Era (1993-2002) has been.

I'm not trying to defend steroid use, i'm just asking questions about it.

I hadn't thought about bat speed - that's a very good point.

I still think Clemens may be juiced. But perhaps it's just because there's something about him I don't like (besides the uniform, that is)

My original point still stands - I'm deadset against steroid usage and i think anyone who's admitted it or has been proved to use it should be "asterixed." Canseco and Caminiti are a good start. Investigations into McGwire, Sosa, Giambi, Sheffield, Bonds and others should proceed. I also personally favor year-long suspensions (without pay) for anyone who tests positive. Get them out of the game completely until they can be proven clean.

ChiWhiteSox1337
03-31-2004, 04:57 PM
Seeing that an acknowledged cheater is still loved by most people(SHAMME) I think this article is true unfortunately.

gosox41
03-31-2004, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
this jackass even goes so far as to suggest it was GREAT
that Sammy hit all of those homeruns, including the ones
that rattled around Miller Park during the HR Derby. This is
the kind of Irresponsible "kiley-esque" Journalism that will
ruin the game for good .............

http://www.suntimes.com/output/telander/cst-spt-rick31.html

Cub fans don't care about steroids because it benefits one of their own.

Bob

ChiSox14305635
03-31-2004, 06:32 PM
Boers and Bernstein touched on this subject during their High Noon segment and blistered Telander, saying that as a fan, if you don't care about steroids affecting the game, you can't be a true fan. I hate the fact how Bernsie always argues with callers, but I like the fact how they tell it like it is, whether good or bad.

minastirith67
03-31-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by daslobo
First off, steroids are dangerous to the user. There have been deaths and serious kidney failure attribute to their usage. In addition to baldness, acne, and a shriveled up sakajawea (which can continue on to sterility) there are also serious consequences to the rapid growth and hormonal changes in the body.

Secondly, there is the moral issue. Kids are watching this and will take notice if we reward the performance of these clowns regardless of how they acheived the results. There is enough moral ambiguity out there without baseball.

Finally, I am disgusted by what these inflated statistics have done to the legacy of the game. They are degrading the real acheivements of the games' past greats. Are Mark McGuire, Sammy Soso, and Barry Bonds the equals of Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, and Hank Aaron? Not without the drugs they aren't.

Bud Selig has done irreparable harm to baseball under his watch and nothing has been worse than allowing this steroid use to go on unchecked. He should be run out of the game along with the cheaters he allowed to prosper. In the very least, there needs to be some real thought to adding an asterix next to all statistics and records for the last 10 years.


No my post was not meant to be in teal. I take umbrage with this post in particular as it seems misinformed. First off, as to issue #1 those problems result from particular kinds of steroids under ABUSE. If you use them right, you won't screw yourself over that way and people who responsibly use steroids to build muscle mass aren't that foolish. As to issue #2, you really think kids look at Sammy and Giambi and whoever and think, hey, I want to use steroids? How is taking steroids "moral ambiguity"? If MLB wants to ban steroids, fine. I just hate how the gov't infuses its anti-drug propaganda into it by declaring what is and isn't illegal. But that's another argument entirely. My problem is with how the whole "war on drugs" works and its gaping faults. If, however, the MLB bans steroid and other drug use, I will respect that, as long as it is for the right reasons.

daslobo
03-31-2004, 09:48 PM
The only realistic effect of steroids i could see would be hitting the ball farther due to increased strength.
[/B]

Untrue. The greatest benefit of steroids is explosive quickness. That's why they've been scouring the sprinters for decades. Remember Ben Johnson? The reaction time is much better because the muscles react infinitely quicker than non roid muscles.

mweflen
03-31-2004, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by daslobo
Untrue. The greatest benefit of steroids is explosive quickness. [/B]

explosive quickness which results in hiting the ball farther (speed+mass equals the momentum of the ball - the same reason people cork bats, to increase the speed part of the equation)

i'm not saying i'm an expert on steroids. nothing could be further from the truth! (just look at me in the mirror ;) And I'm way against them. I think people should be banned for using them.

I'm just wondering what the real effects are. Similar to corking, which adds to bat speed but detracts from bat weight, which makes things just about even. I wonder how much of it is mental.

SSN721
04-01-2004, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by minastirith67
As to issue #2, you really think kids look at Sammy and Giambi and whoever and think, hey, I want to use steroids?

Yes I do. I think they look at players who they think or suspect are taking steroids and think to themselves thats what I have to do to get to that level. Openly taking steroids will only lead to many younger players using them and abusing them because they see it as either the only way or a shortcut to the top level. And I think if you say everyone who takes them will or are using them properly you are being quite naive. I am not saying that they are evil and cant serve a good purpose but unless everyone heavily researches it and/or has medical supervision while they take them it would be dangerous. And I am quite positive that not every person taking steroids is doing so properly.

Hangar18
04-01-2004, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by ChiWhiteSox1337
Seeing that an acknowledged cheater is still loved by most people(SHAMME) I think this article is true unfortuneately.

What does that really tell you about Cub Fans in general?
Thats why I believe there are so many aspects of that organization and their "fans" that, if left unchecked, are going
to RUIN THE GAME FOR GOOD. Fans turning the other cheek
when one of their own is an admitted cheater .......and being
OK with it ........cannot be good for the good of the game.
Major sports network giving "local and favorably slanted" coverage in the playoffs for games 1 all the way thru 6, finally
being caught with their Corporate-Pants-Down and having to
Rush and put a Marlins hilites together and Finallly have FOX cameras in Miami bars "in case" they won game 7.

longshot7
04-01-2004, 09:35 AM
For the record, I don't care if anyone uses steroids. Heck, I've used them - for asthma. If a player gets a doctor's prescription, I don't see what's the problem.

SSN721
04-01-2004, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by longshot7
For the record, I don't care if anyone uses steroids. Heck, I've used them - for asthma. If a player gets a doctor's prescription, I don't see what's the problem.

Do they all have asthma? Why else would they need a prescription for it, otherwise it is illegal. Will kids who see players taking it get a prescription when they think they need to get it to make it to the big leagues? I didnt know you could get a prescription for cheating. Because unless an athlete has a medical condition where they actually need it that is all it is, cheating.

poorme
04-01-2004, 09:44 AM
Morphine is used for medical conditions. Should players be allowed to use that too?

minastirith67
04-01-2004, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
Yes I do. I think they look at players who they think or suspect are taking steroids and think to themselves thats what I have to do to get to that level. Openly taking steroids will only lead to many younger players using them and abusing them because they see it as either the only way or a shortcut to the top level. And I think if you say everyone who takes them will or are using them properly you are being quite naive. I am not saying that they are evil and cant serve a good purpose but unless everyone heavily researches it and/or has medical supervision while they take them it would be dangerous. And I am quite positive that not every person taking steroids is doing so properly.


No, I am not insinuating that every player who has taken steroids was using them properly. But I am saying that it is possible to use steroids in a responsible way, without causing long-term harm to the body.

minastirith67
04-01-2004, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by poorme
Morphine is used for medical conditions. Should players be allowed to use that too?


Narcotics and steroids are two very different kinds of drugs. Comparing them would be like comparing apples and oranges.

minastirith67
04-01-2004, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
Do they all have asthma? Why else would they need a prescription for it, otherwise it is illegal. Will kids who see players taking it get a prescription when they think they need to get it to make it to the big leagues? I didnt know you could get a prescription for cheating. Because unless an athlete has a medical condition where they actually need it that is all it is, cheating.


Steroids are very common to use. The kind of steroids that MLB has banned are certain anabolic steroids that increase muscle mass and performance, not the kind you would use in a nose spray or with a prescription. The body produces steroids every day, so banning all "steroids" seems pretty stupid to me. Hardly cheating, I would think.

SSN721
04-01-2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by minastirith67
Steroids are very common to use. The kind of steroids that MLB has banned are certain anabolic steroids that increase muscle mass and performance, not the kind you would use in a nose spray or with a prescription. The body produces steroids every day, so banning all "steroids" seems pretty stupid to me. Hardly cheating, I would think.

Steroids for medical use or anabolic steroids are in common use? If it is anabolic you think it is okay for them to just be used by everyone then, you don't see that as an unfair advantage? They are banned by baseball and are illegal by federal law, correct? I am not comparing them to crack or morphine but they are still dangerous if not used properly. And considering they are banned and illegal in the first place I don't know how it can be advocated that they are used. And I don't see how it can be assumed that most people use them properly with medical advice/assistance. I think unless you believe most people use them properly I don't know how you can make an argument for openly using them. To me using a banned and illegal drug is just plain cheating, I would think most players choose not to use it because they feel it is dangerous, not to mention the fact it is banned and illegal. Because they make the choice not to use it I don't think they should be penalized by looking the other way when players use just because some people think it can be used properly and isn't dangerous. I think that makes it cheating.

poorme
04-01-2004, 11:29 AM
Narcotics and steroids are two very different kinds of drugs. Comparing them would be like comparing apples and oranges.

Of course, but they are both legal prescription drugs. I was pointing out the silliness of saying anything is OK to use as long as it is a legal prescription drug.

I don't think anyone is suggesting they ban nasal steriods for stuffy noses.

minastirith67
04-01-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by SSN721
Steroids for medical use or anabolic steroids are in common use? If it is anabolic you think it is okay for them to just be used by everyone then, you don't see that as an unfair advantage? They are banned by baseball and are illegal by federal law, correct? I am not comparing them to crack or morphine but they are still dangerous if not used properly. And considering they are banned and illegal in the first place I don't know how it can be advocated that they are used. And I don't see how it can be assumed that most people use them properly with medical advice/assistance. I think unless you believe most people use them properly I don't know how you can make an argument for openly using them. To me using a banned and illegal drug is just plain cheating, I would think most players choose not to use it because they feel it is dangerous, not to mention the fact it is banned and illegal. Because they make the choice not to use it I don't think they should be penalized by looking the other way when players use just because some people think it can be used properly and isn't dangerous. I think that makes it cheating.

There needs to be a distinction between MLB and FDA rules here. What is illegal by MLB standards is sometimes not illegal by federal or state law. Certain kinds of steroids (including anabolic) fall into this category. There are also some kinds of steroids (anabolic) that are banned by federal law as well. I don't take issue with MLB trying to keep it fair for everyone. If they take a uniform doping policy, that's fine by me. My main problem is when the government dictates to people what they can and can't use as drugs. As I've said before, it is possible to use steroids properly and effectively for building muscle mass. If MLB has its own reasons for banning steroids then so be it, but I believe that they take their cues from the misinformed and politically active FDA and other government bodies. The FDA's problems are multifold, but I'm not going to go there here.

What I really hated to see was all those representatives from the major American sports (including Selig) having to respond to a congressional inquiry. I can't stand government interfering like this (and in many other cases).

longshot7
04-01-2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by SSN721
Steroids for medical use or anabolic steroids are in common use? If it is anabolic you think it is okay for them to just be used by everyone then, you don't see that as an unfair advantage? They are banned by baseball and are illegal by federal law, correct? I am not comparing them to crack or morphine but they are still dangerous if not used properly. And considering they are banned and illegal in the first place I don't know how it can be advocated that they are used. And I don't see how it can be assumed that most people use them properly with medical advice/assistance. I think unless you believe most people use them properly I don't know how you can make an argument for openly using them. To me using a banned and illegal drug is just plain cheating, I would think most players choose not to use it because they feel it is dangerous, not to mention the fact it is banned and illegal. Because they make the choice not to use it I don't think they should be penalized by looking the other way when players use just because some people think it can be used properly and isn't dangerous. I think that makes it cheating.

steroids are not illegal by federal law. You can get prescriptions and take them under a doctors care. And as for your morphine comment - who cares what any person is putting into their body if it doesn't affect you?

SSN721
04-01-2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
steroids are not illegal by federal law. You can get prescriptions and take them under a doctors care. And as for your morphine comment - who cares what any person is putting into their body if it doesn't affect you?

I don't care about the players themselves, if they are stupid enough to take something that is banned by their employers and can hurt themselves with if not used properly, its their own problem. I just don't think it is okay for them to be accepted and openly taken because as I have stated numerous times in this thread that it is a horrible example to set for young players who are either too young to take steroids or too stupid to not follow safe dosages/procedures when taking it. Thats my only concern. I think it is a bad example to set.