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View Full Version : Grilli Gone


joecrede
03-30-2004, 11:28 AM
Per team's website. (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=cws)

ma_deuce
03-30-2004, 11:33 AM
I like Grilli... but the Seattle game was a nightmare.

Deuce

poorme
03-30-2004, 11:36 AM
If some POS like Adkins or Jackson makes the team over him, this is a stupid move.

SEALgep
03-30-2004, 11:38 AM
He might be staying, just not on the 25 man roster. It may not go through, but the Sox are talking to the Marlins about a trade that may allow us to keep him.

RichardSkrip
03-30-2004, 11:38 AM
I don't know what's worse; losing Grilli, the idea of taking 3 catchers (didn't Manuel try that to limited success?), or that Schoenweis was given a "vote of confidence" from Guillen and Coop. Ugh...

SEALgep
03-30-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by poorme
If some POS like Adkins or Jackson makes the team over him, this is a stupid move. With them going with 11 pitchers, it seems Cotts will be the one taking his spot.

SEALgep
03-30-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by RichardSkrip
I don't know what's worse; losing Grilli, the idea of taking 3 catchers (didn't Manuel try that to limited success?), or that Schoenweis was given a "vote of confidence" from Guillen and Coop. Ugh... No one else is stretched out enough to take the starters role from Schoney, so it is a little premature for the coachiong staff to come out and say the experiment is over. As far as Manuel's failed experiment of three catchers, that doesn't translate into Guillen at all. Carrying three catchers doesn't make any kind of statement other than he wants his catchers fresh and that he will be pinch hitting late in games.

RichardSkrip
03-30-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
No one else is stretched out enough to take the starters role from Schoney... Carrying three catchers doesn't make any kind of statement other than he wants his catchers fresh and that he will be pinch hitting late in games.

Here's my problem with the 3 catcher situation and Schoney. We're talking about a guy with a career ERA of 5.28 as a starter. He's going to get hammered, and his spring has been no sign of a Loiaza-like turn around. We're gonna need to use up the bullpen to support him, Wright too, probably. Only taking 11 picthers is going to tax that bullpen like crazy. Does the potential benefit of 3 catchers offset the devastation that will likely be done to the bullpen thanks Schoney? Probably not.

SEALgep
03-30-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by RichardSkrip
Here's my problem with the 3 catcher situation and Schoney. We're talking about a guy with a career ERA of 5.28 as a starter. He's going to get hammered, and his spring has been no sign of a Loiaza-like turn around. We're gonna need to use up the bullpen to support him, Wright too, probably. Only taking 11 picthers is going to tax that bullpen like crazy. Does the potential benefit of 3 catchers offset the devastation that will likely be done to the bullpen thanks Schoney? Probably not. Although Wright probably won't go very deep into games, I really don't see him as a problem in our rotation. He's had a very good ST. Schoney doesn't have a good career ERA, but that should be taken with a grain of salt because he has added two new pitches to his repetoire. Granted, they haven't helped him in the least to date, but if he can refine them, he will be a different pitcher. It's not that easy to just add another pitch, let alone two. I am cautiously optimisitc for Schoney, but he really only had a couple bad outings. Looking at his ERA for all of ST isn't really fair. The first games he pitched, he only pitched the new pitches, and obviously the opposing teams picked up on them. We'll see how it plays out, but the spot is still his. Let's see how he responds to the challenge. We all start fresh on Opening day, good or bad.

JRIG
03-30-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by RichardSkrip
Here's my problem with the 3 catcher situation and Schoney. We're talking about a guy with a career ERA of 5.28 as a starter. He's going to get hammered, and his spring has been no sign of a Loiaza-like turn around. We're gonna need to use up the bullpen to support him, Wright too, probably. Only taking 11 picthers is going to tax that bullpen like crazy. Does the potential benefit of 3 catchers offset the devastation that will likely be done to the bullpen thanks Schoney? Probably not.

You know what would have solved this problem? Hiring Sandy Alomar as the bench coach instead of Harold. That's all Sandy's going to do anyway. That and catch about 35 games.

Adkins has this team made. He's a Guillen favorite and he's all KW has to show for Durham. That would make four players on the roster just so KW can prove himself right -- Adkins, Harris, Takatsu, and Schoney.

jeremyb1
03-30-2004, 01:51 PM
All Grilli has ever really done is post an ERA of 3.5 in AAA as a 26 year old with a terrible K rate. I'm certainly not shedding any tears.

ScottyTheSoxFan
03-30-2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Carrying three catchers doesn't make any kind of statement other than he wants his catchers fresh and that he will be pinch hitting late in games.

who is gonna pinch hit? timo perez? jamie burke? willie harris? the team would be just as good off with olivo or alomar batting, wouldn't they?

poorme
03-30-2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
who is gonna pinch hit?

Uribe

SEALgep
03-30-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
who is gonna pinch hit? timo perez? jamie burke? willie harris? the team would be just as good off with olivo or alomar batting, wouldn't they? It depends. If we're in the bottom of the 8th or 9th, and Alomar is leading off when we're tied or down by one, then maybe pinch hitting a guy with more speed would be beneficial. Plus Burke is an option at catcher, but he can also play third. There isn't a rule, but having options is always a nice luxury.

hold2dibber
03-30-2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
who is gonna pinch hit? timo perez? jamie burke? willie harris? the team would be just as good off with olivo or alomar batting, wouldn't they?

Good point. The Sox' bench this year is absolutely horrible.

beckett21
03-30-2004, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
All Grilli has ever really done is post an ERA of 3.5 in AAA as a 26 year old with a terrible K rate. I'm certainly not shedding any tears.

He is still 26 IIRC, and may finally be healthy after a myriad of arm problems. Fair enough to say we don't need a guy with a history of arm trouble, I can buy into that. But if in fact he is finally healthy, former #1 draft picks don't grow on trees. Plus, the Marlins seem to have a knack for picking good young pitchers. Maybe he is ready to live up to the dreaded *P* word. Or not, but it would be interesting to find out instead of watching Schoeneweis pitch us out of contention by June. Grilli has the pedigree to be worth one fair shot. Pitchers are notorious for taking longer to develop; he may be nearing the point where he figures it all out. Schoneweis has no excuse; he just plain sucks IMO. He has confused himself more this spring than anything.

mikef1331
03-30-2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
who is gonna pinch hit? timo perez? jamie burke? willie harris? the team would be just as good off with olivo or alomar batting, wouldn't they?

Gload will probably pinch hit.

poorme
03-30-2004, 05:14 PM
the point is he's on a "free-trial" basis. They could have kept him for nothing, given him a month in the majors to see if he could do anything, and then dump him if he's not any good. THEN call up Cotts or Adkins.

Well, now they are going to trade away something to keep him? That's a crazy way to go about it.

beckett21
03-30-2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by poorme
the point is he's on a "free-trial" basis. They could have kept him for nothing, given him a month in the majors to see if he could do anything, and then dump him if he's not any good. THEN call up Cotts or Adkins.

Well, now they are going to trade away something to keep him? That's a crazy way to go about it.

Yup. Takes the steal out of the steal. (if that makes any sense)

mweflen
03-30-2004, 05:19 PM
frankly, just based on the attitudes they've displayed, i'd take Grilli over Schoney in the 5-spot any day of the week. (Wright has earned the 4-hole, no doubt about it)

Grilli had one bad outing - and admitted it. he was basically like 'I got hammered, but I'm not going to let it get me down.'

Schoney has had ALL bad outings, and his response has been 'well, gee, i'm still working on stuff, so of course it looks bad. but the coaches know what i'm doing.'

which was followed very quickly by KW saying that the 'mystery man' had better get his proverbial $#!* together and quit acting like he had a guaranteed roster spot.

hmmm.....

Letting Schoney "Have every chance" will lead to a disaster of Ritchie-esque proportions. This team basically has one chance left before the cheapskates let Maggs go because they don't want to pay him "Guerrero or Tejada money." Every start counts! There is no leeway in a tight division to "give a guy every chance" to "put it together."

lowesox
03-30-2004, 05:22 PM
Another awful decision by our management. This entire Shoenweiss saga has been a nightmare.

Kenny: the trade just didn't work out. Leave it at that.

beckett21
03-30-2004, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by lowesox

Kenny: the trade just didn't work out. Leave it at that.

But he can't. His pride won't let him until it becomes such an abomination that he has no other choice. We will be force-fed a steady diet of Schoeneweis a-la mode' until we are 10 games out of first place, and have to scramble to pick up the pieces a-la Todd Ritchie fiasco.

How is KW supposed to tell JR that he just wasted $1.8 million dollars of his money? And that we need more players to be competetive so that he can flush more of JR's money down the toilet?? Yes, I would probably tighten the purse-strings myself.

The Scott Schoeneweis era is here, people. It's kind of like that nightmare where your car is stalled on the train tracks, and the train is coming and the car won't start and you are locked in. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. And then...hopefully you wake up. But I'm afraid we're not going to wake up from this one. We're gonna get crushed like a Schoney meatball.

jeremyb1
03-30-2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
former #1 draft picks don't grow on trees.

Ones in their late 20s that have yet to accomplish anything in teh majors are pretty readily available. We used to have Chad Matolla in our system. A lot of guys that are top picks don't pan out. I'm pretty confident Grilli will be one of those guys. If he wasn't healthy last season and he's going to make a huge improvement on that maybe he's worth having around but that seems unlikely. And like you said, if health is his major problem then thats been the case for quite a few years now so it probably won't subside.

beckett21
03-30-2004, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Ones in their late 20s that have yet to accomplish anything in teh majors are pretty readily available. We used to have Chad Matolla in our system. A lot of guys that are top picks don't pan out. I'm pretty confident Grilli will be one of those guys. If he wasn't healthy last season and he's going to make a huge improvement on that maybe he's worth having around but that seems unlikely. And like you said, if health is his major problem then thats been the case for quite a few years now so it probably won't subside.

Somehow, I knew that was coming sooner or later... :)

Yes, first round busts are common. It never ceases to amaze me what an inexact science baseball scouting/drafting is, coming from someone who admittedly knows very little about the process. The whole thing revolves around his health IMO. He is running out of time, but he still has a chance to turn it around. To me it is worth the risk since we really have nothing to lose by keeping him around a little while longer. Obviously there is some talent there somewhere, maybe Cooper can bring it out of him. It's just silly to let the guy get away without seeing what he can really do. If he sucks, fine. Nothing ventured, nothing gained (please excuse the cliche').

Rex Hudler
03-30-2004, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by poorme
the point is he's on a "free-trial" basis. They could have kept him for nothing, given him a month in the majors to see if he could do anything, and then dump him if he's not any good. THEN call up Cotts or Adkins.

Well, now they are going to trade away something to keep him? That's a crazy way to go about it.

Oakland worked out a trade with the Cubs to keep Eric Hinske.

Mohoney
04-01-2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
It depends. If we're in the bottom of the 8th or 9th, and Alomar is leading off when we're tied or down by one, then maybe pinch hitting a guy with more speed would be beneficial. Plus Burke is an option at catcher, but he can also play third. There isn't a rule, but having options is always a nice luxury.

Or, just let Alomar hit and pinch-run for him.

sas1974
04-01-2004, 04:06 PM
:jerry
"I would have loved to have all of these options!"
*tinker. tinker. tinker.*