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View Full Version : Disgusting Schoeneweis news


MRKARNO
03-29-2004, 11:21 PM
With the 10 Cactus League innings and eight more during intrasquad and "B" games, Cotts feels stretched out enough if he had to step into the starting rotation. But he won't be taking the job away from Scott Schoeneweis, at least, not in the immediate future.
Despite a very rough Spring Training and the team wanting to see better results in his next start against Milwaukee on Friday, Schoeneweis received a vote of confidence from Guillen and Cooper. They both believe Schoeneweis is thinking too much on the mound, trying too hard to make the perfect pitch.

They talked to him before Monday's game and explained more of what they want in his next start. The left-hander, penciled in to start the Yankees' home opener on April 8, might focus primarily on his cutter, sinker and slider and de-emphasize the changeup against the Brewers.

"I'm not thinking the next (start) is make-or-break by any means," Cooper said of Schoeneweis. "It's going to be somebody else to tell me this is his last chance. That's the farthest thing from my mind."


http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040329&content_id=672898&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp

How many chances are we going to give this pitcher who has already "Schoen" us that he is unable to pitch well enough to be a starter in the major leagues? At this point, a 5.00 ERA would be a huge improvement and even that is unacceptable from someone who was supposed to be the 4th starter. I sure as hell hope the next start is a breaker for Schoeneweis. He would be somewhat valuable out of the pen.

It is sadly looking as though Schoe will at least start the season as our fourth or fifth starter so now we can be embarassed in Yankee Stadium by this joke of a starting pitcher.

C'mon Guillen, Coop and KW: Just say no to Schoe!

TornLabrum
03-29-2004, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040329&content_id=672898&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp

How many chances are we going to give this pitcher who has already "Schoen" us that he is unable to pitch well enough to be a starter in the major leagues? At this point, a 5.00 ERA would be a huge improvement and even that is unacceptable from someone who was supposed to be the 4th starter. I sure as hell hope the next start is a breaker for Schoeneweis. He would be somewhat valuable out of the pen.

It is sadly looking as though Schoe will at least start the season as our fourth or fifth starter so now we can be embarassed in Yankee Stadium by this joke of a starting pitcher.

C'mon Guillen, Coop and KW: Just say no to Schoe!

As long as Uncle Jer is paying him that salary, as many chances as he needs.

MRKARNO
03-29-2004, 11:45 PM
White Sox pitching coach Don Cooper says left-hander Scott Schoeneweis is not in danger of being dropped from the rotation.

"I don't think anybody's thinking that," Cooper said. "What are we going to do, pull the plug and invent a fifth starter? Nobody else is stretched out right now. He's starting."
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-040329soxbits,1,6165295.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

fuzzy_patters
03-29-2004, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040329&content_id=672898&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp

How many chances are we going to give this pitcher who has already "Schoen" us that he is unable to pitch well enough to be a starter in the major leagues? At this point, a 5.00 ERA would be a huge improvement and even that is unacceptable from someone who was supposed to be the 4th starter. I sure as hell hope the next start is a breaker for Schoeneweis. He would be somewhat valuable out of the pen.

It is sadly looking as though Schoe will at least start the season as our fourth or fifth starter so now we can be embarassed in Yankee Stadium by this joke of a starting pitcher.

C'mon Guillen, Coop and KW: Just say no to Schoe!

Kenny Williams said that he might make a move if the mystery player doesn't start playing better. They could just be saying this crap until Kenny makes a move. If they came out and said they needed a new fifth starter, Kenny would lose trade leverage with other teams.

Hangar18
03-30-2004, 12:08 AM
Were using Schoen out of position. Its easy to see that

davidleeroth
03-30-2004, 12:09 AM
not to get nitpicky here, but did ANYBODY see ANYTHING from scott last year out of the pen that even made them think that he was an acceptable relief pitcher when the game was on the line? this is a joke. if you're going to make the playoffs, you need at least 10 wins out of your 4th starter. now, we've got to count on #5 to put up that many.

just look at the guy, he's not even built to be a place kicker in the arena league. i think though that ozzie and coop are just posturing. does anybody really believe that they dont think he's a bust?

fquaye149
03-30-2004, 12:11 AM
can't we give cooper the benefit of the doubt? he really did a hell of a job with the staff for the most part last year...

if there's something i'm missing here, please let me know...but i tend to believe coop knows what he's talking about. . .i mean...and i don't mean to pull the all-purpose e-lo card, but i seem to remember most of you were against loaiza being in the rotation last year...

who knows. i think that cotts/rauch/grill/honel/whoever vs. schoenweis is such a tossup that you just let him get out there, and let the youths develop. if he pitches well, great, ifnot, he got that bug out of his system... of course, this might not be the greatest idea. wouldn't be the first time i was wrong.

chisox06
03-30-2004, 12:36 AM
The thing that gets me so discouraged is that the bottom of our rotation (4-5) is a problem and a concern every year! This year of course being no different, we'll see once again the "rent a pitcher" mode throughout the year to see which underdeveloped Triple A arm can get massacred once again in the big leagues during important games. Although I highly doubt Oz will pull anything like the Cotts/NY debacle last year. Really makes me wonder what KW is thinking.

StillMissOzzie
03-30-2004, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Were using Schoen out of position. Its easy to see that

I think the best position would now be someone else's bullpen. By the way, nice new sig photo, Hangar!

SMO
:gulp:

Blueprint1
03-30-2004, 01:16 AM
Kenny traded for him so he will get all the chances in the world. Its funny how that is with the people he trades for.

white sox bill
03-30-2004, 07:32 AM
The 2004 version of Jamie Navarro bearing the love child of Todd Ritchie: Scott Schoeneweis

Jjav829
03-30-2004, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by Blueprint1
Kenny traded for him so he will get all the chances in the world. Its funny how that is with the people he trades for.

That's not just Kenny. All GM's in every sport are like that. When they sign someone/trade for someone, they want that person to do well. Few GM's are willing to cut their loses, take the hit to their ego, and get rid of the player. They give the player every chance to prove them right.

soxfan26
03-30-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
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C'mon Guillen, Coop and KW: Just say no to Schoe!

I don't like Schoeny either, but in the absence of a trade I think he is a better option than Grilli or Cotts.

sas1974
03-30-2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829
That's not just Kenny. All GM's in every sport are like that. When they sign someone/trade for someone, they want that person to do well. Few GM's are willing to cut their loses, take the hit to their ego, and get rid of the player. They give the player every chance to prove them right.

I totally agree, but I didn't see the need to push the issue. It's one thing to trade for an average middle reliever and stick with him a little bit. It's another thing all together to take that average middle reliever and hand him the #4 spot in your starting rotation.

TheRockinMT
03-30-2004, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by Blueprint1
Kenny traded for him so he will get all the chances in the world. Its funny how that is with the people he trades for.

I think this post has merit. KW sung this guys praises from the time he traded for him and continued over the off season and this Spring. Show has not produced, but it kind of seems the Sox are backed into a corner and have to give him the shot at starting. I am not the pitching coach, the manager or KW, I am just a baseball fan of the Sox so I will defer to Cooper and Guillen. There is still a start or two that Show will make before opening day. Hopefully he can get the mindset needed to be a starter straight in his approach to the hitters. He does have impressive strike out totals so he must have some good moves and pitches at times. Whether he should start or relieve is the big question. He seems to do good for a couple innings and then loses it big time. If he struggles I just hope the Sox don't drag their feet about changing the starting rotation. If Wunsch is hurt I would rathe see Show handle the relief role where he has experience and let Cotts or Rausch start.

poorme
03-30-2004, 12:16 PM
The whole idea of making him a starter is certainly questionable, but now that they've gone this far, might as well see what happens. He's K/BB ratio is fantastic, so maybe he can be ok.

Frater Perdurabo
03-30-2004, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by poorme
The whole idea of making him a starter is certainly questionable, but now that they've gone this far, might as well see what happens. He's K/BB ratio is fantastic, so maybe he can be ok.

If he only walks one, strikes out five, but gives up 12 hits and 7 runs in 3 and one-third innings, then the Sox are in deep doo-doo.

RichardSkrip
03-30-2004, 12:22 PM
Maybe the idea is to let him get hammered by Yankees, then move him to the bullpen, so Cotts doesn't have to deal with that again. Seems stupid to me, but so is letting Schoenweis pitch in the first place. If Schoenweis is the next Jaime Navarro, I'll cry.

sas1974
03-30-2004, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by poorme
The whole idea of making him a starter is certainly questionable, but now that they've gone this far, might as well see what happens. He's K/BB ratio is fantastic, so maybe he can be ok.

I know this may come off as sounding unintelligent, but maybe he's throwing too many strikes.

soxfan26
03-30-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
I know this may come off as sounding unintelligent, but maybe he's throwing too many strikes.

It's more likely that he is missing his spots because he just hasn't mastered these new pitches.

Add that to that fact that he hasn't mastered his old pitches and you get a 9.31 ERA.

maurice
03-30-2004, 01:50 PM
It seems to me that Copper wants Scotty boy out of the rotation but doesn't feel he has a competent and / or "stretched out" replacement right now.

sas1974
03-30-2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by maurice
It seems to me that Copper wants Scotty boy out of the rotation but doesn't feel he has a competent and / or "stretched out" replacement right now.

I think that could definitely be inferred from his statements. I am not sure if it's true, but I can see it in there. Let's hope so! :D:

SEALgep
03-30-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by maurice
It seems to me that Copper wants Scotty boy out of the rotation but doesn't feel he has a competent and / or "stretched out" replacement right now. I don't get that from what he said. I think he wants Schoney. Everyone puts it on KW about acquiring him, but he wasn't the only one in the organization that have wanting this guy over the past three years. Coop flat out said, 'who is going to replace him, one of the guys in the minors? No. He's our starter.' Sounds like he isn't ready to give up on him. His early numbers are deceiving because early, he threw only the pitches he was working on. It probably is too early to write him off, even with very slow improvement. These guys have seen him day in and day out.

Mickster
03-30-2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I don't get that from what he said. I think he wants Schoney. Everyone puts it on KW about acquiring him, but he wasn't the only one in the organization that have wanting this guy over the past three years. Coop flat out said, 'who is going to replace him, one of the guys in the minors? No. He's our starter.' Sounds like he isn't ready to give up on him. His early numbers are deceiving because early, he threw only the pitches he was working on. It probably is too early to write him off, even with very slow improvement. These guys have seen him day in and day out.

SEAL,

When coop says 'who is going to replace him, one of the guys in the minors? No. He's our starter....', it clearly sounds to me that he has given up on him, but has no options at this point. If he REALLY had not given up on him, he would have never answered a question with a question.....

maurice
03-30-2004, 02:15 PM
SEAL, here's a longer Coop quote re. Scotty from today's Southtown (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/301sd3.htm):

What are we gonna do, pull the plug and invent a fifth starter? Nobody else is stretched out right now. The kids down in the minor leagues? No. [Schoeneweis is] starting. He's starting and he's going to be given an opportunity to see what he can do.

He had a tough one (Sunday) obviously, but there are a lot of things going on. The big thing that's going on is that we're trying to get a lot of things done here in 30 days. We're trying to get a full windup. We're trying to get a changeup. We're trying to get a cutter. We're trying to figure out what mix he will (use).

There is way too much thought going on in his mind. The problem is himself right now. He's really thinking too much and he's trying to figure out where his pitches can be fit in and how they can be fit in.

I'm not going to put a deadline . . . . That's like sending a guy to his death sentence 'You're going to be executed on this date' and I'm not going to approach it that way.

stillz
03-30-2004, 02:26 PM
I agree with this thread for the most part, but I say we give him at least the start at Yankee Stadium.

Coop seems pretty certain it's a mental thing.

Shingo and Schoe - wow, how exciting!

SEALgep
03-30-2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
SEAL,

When coop says 'who is going to replace him, one of the guys in the minors? No. He's our starter....', it clearly sounds to me that he has given up on him, but has no options at this point. If he REALLY had not given up on him, he would have never answered a question with a question..... Looking at the full article (involving Coop anyway) it shows that he isn't giving up on him. No one is debating that he is where we all hoped he would be at. However, it is obvious to me that Coop thinks he can still turn this around. If he says it's mental, than obviously he feels he has the tools to get the job done. He just needs to not out think himself, and that can be learned. Hopefully sooner than later.

mweflen
03-30-2004, 06:34 PM
i may be a noob here, but my distinct impression of the Cooper quote was that he had little faith in Schoney, but was really out of options to replace him.

But then, why isn't anyone expressing the obvious solution? Wright should be the number 4, while Schoney should "work his issues out" being the No. 5 spot starter and long relief man.

beckett21
03-30-2004, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
i may be a noob here, but my distinct impression of the Cooper quote was that he had little faith in Schoney, but was really out of options to replace him.

But then, why isn't anyone expressing the obvious solution? Wright should be the number 4, while Schoney should "work his issues out" being the No. 5 spot starter and long relief man.

I totally agree with you. Coop is basically throwing his hands in the air, essentially saying *what do you want me to do? This is what I have to work with.*

Personally I have never been a huge Danny Wright fan, but given the alternative--I am now. Schoeneweis will do the least harm in the #5 role, and that will give him some more time to *find himself* or whatever it is that he is doing which is so very uninspiring to this point.

mweflen
03-30-2004, 06:46 PM
i think what really sets the tone of Coop's quote is "are we going to pull the plug and invent a fifth starter?"

that sounds very exasperated. if he were happy with Schoney's performance or optimistic about his progress, something along these lines would have been a lot more likely:

"at this point, there is no need to worry about the 5 spot. We're pleased with Schoney's progress and think he'll be able to perform in real-game situations."

the one good thing to glean from the quote - perhaps they're really thinking of Schoney as the number 5 now? notice he didn't say "are we going to pull the plug and invent a new FOURTH starter?"

hope springs eternal...

mikef1331
03-30-2004, 06:47 PM
Here's a clip from a Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sox.asp?intID=3807685) article I found about Schoeneweis.

Scott Schoeneweis is still in the White Sox' starting rotation, despite going 1-2 with a 9.31 ERA this spring.
Word leaked out Monday that the Sox are going to open the season with an 11-man pitching staff.
With Opening Day less than a week away, Mark Buehrle, Esteban Loaiza, Jon Garland, Schoeneweis and Dan Wright are the starters.
The bullpen includes Damaso Marte, Billy Koch, Cliff Politte, Shingo Takatsu and Kelly Wunsch, and the long relief job probably is going to Neal Cotts.
Of course, that's all subject to change.
If Schoeneweis flops again in his final Cactus League outing Friday against the Milwaukee Brewers, he could switch roles with Cotts. Or the Sox could trade for a starter, such as Anaheim's Jarrod Washburn or Pittsburgh's Kris Benson.

mweflen
03-30-2004, 06:48 PM
for my part, btw, i've got Schoney in the 5-hole in MVP 2004 for the Xbox. The damage is limited. And Danny's pitching well in the 4-spot :)

HomeFish
03-30-2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by mikef1331
Or the Sox could trade for a starter, such as Anaheim's Jarrod Washburn or Pittsburgh's Kris Benson.

Washburn?! What are they smoking at the Southtown?

CWSGuy406
03-30-2004, 07:15 PM
I would like to hear some opinions:

Would you guys trade: Benson for Borchard/Rauch/Stewart not all three, perhaps one or two with them taking on some salary? Same thing with Washburn? Which of the two would you rather have, Benson or Washburn?

If I were Kenny, I'd look into getting Washburn from Anahiem - It'd be nice to have another lefty in the rotation, even though Wash is coming off of a pretty bad year...

fuzzy_patters
03-30-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by CWSGuy406
I would like to hear some opinions:

Would you guys trade: Benson for Borchard/Rauch/Stewart not all three, perhaps one or two with them taking on some salary? Same thing with Washburn? Which of the two would you rather have, Benson or Washburn?

If I were Kenny, I'd look into getting Washburn from Anahiem - It'd be nice to have another lefty in the rotation, even though Wash is coming off of a pretty bad year...

Is Benson fully over his injury problems?

StillMissOzzie
03-31-2004, 02:24 AM
I like the idea of flip-flopping Schoenweiss and Wright as the #4 and #5 starters, to minimize the damage. I also think that Cotts is going to become Schoenweiss' designated reliever, since we'll need a long reliever to go 4-5 innings after Schoenweiss gets shelled.

SMO
:gulp: