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SEALgep
03-29-2004, 08:48 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040329&content_id=672898&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp

gosox41
03-29-2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040329&content_id=672898&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp

Another stellar move by the Sox. Wti this great 11 man pitching staff, I'm going to go order my Series tickets now.,

Bob

SEALgep
03-29-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Another stellar move by the Sox. Wti this great 11 man pitching staff, I'm going to go order my Series tickets now.,

Bob I wonder what you would say if they said 12. Would have it mattered?

ChiWhiteSox1337
03-29-2004, 08:55 PM
Sigh. It's a shame because I'd rather have this guy over some of KW's other mistakes....mainly koch, schoenweis, and shingo. I'm not going to completely rip KW for shingo yet, though. I think he may be able to pitch better once he's out of arizona.

santo=dorf
03-29-2004, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by ChiWhiteSox1337
. I think he may be able to pitch better once he's out of arizona.

Is it possible for him to get any worse? SEAL, don't you think that extra spot matters to someone like Grilli or Jackson?

RichFitztightly
03-29-2004, 09:02 PM
I thought for sure they'd keep him instead of sending him back. It's a little bit of a shocker now. Eh, either way I'm not hinging the success of the Sox on him.

gosox41
03-29-2004, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I wonder what you would say if they said 12. Would have it mattered?

Yes it would have. But a lot of it would depend on who they kept. Right now this is the Sox bullpen canidates w/ my 2 cents on each guy:

Marte-The best the Sox have. One of the best lefty relivers in the AL.

Koch-horse manure. But we can hope he'll turn it around.

Wunsch-solid situational lefty. I emphasize 'situational'

Shingo-Getting lit up during spring training, though means little. Has had decreasing numbers in Japan the last 3 years against inferior competition . That means a lot.

Politte-Effective when healthy. Not great but reliable. He just needs to stay healthy.

Adkins-Having a great spring. See my comments on Shingo to see what I think of spring training. Then see my Koch comments, but at least Adkins is cheaper.

Cotts-Can't find the strike zone and is best (for the team and himself ) for him to be a starter in AAA and learn some control.

Jackson-Missed all of 2002. Injury awaiting to happen.

Those are the 8 candidates for the bullpen. Maybe Adkins and Cotts can be long relief, but neither are reliable.

What would my bullpen be you ask?
1. Marte
2. Politte
3. Schoenweis
4. Wunsch
5. Koch-only because I know the Sox won't release his sorry butt.
6. Rauch

Wright and Grilli would be my 4th and 5ht starters instead of Wright and Schoeneweis.

IMHO, this is a better option then what the Sox are doing. Rauch and Schoenweis can pitcvh long relief. Shingo should be in AAA unless Wunsch or KrOCH is traded.

Bob

A. Cavatica
03-29-2004, 09:15 PM
I'm not sold on Grilli. He may be no better than Adkins or Kohlmeier. Even if he pitches his best, I don't think he'll be better than his father was, and Steve Grilli was nothing special.

Things can still change before the season starts. In fact there are a bunch of ways Grilli could still go north with the team, for example injury.

I am happy with the (alleged) decision to carry 11 pitchers. Why give innings to your 12th best pitcher when you can't even find 7 or 8 you can count on?

Part of the roster problem is Guillen's desire to bring Jamie Burke as a third catcher. Why does nobody mention the hole we have at second catcher? Cut Sandy...

depy48
03-29-2004, 09:16 PM
i'd like to see grilli break with the sox, but it looks like it aint happening. i'm thinkning a couple of starts for cotts in triple a might be ok...and if cotts proves he can pitch in charolette, and schoneweis still isnt making it happen..the sox should place cotts in the rotation

SEALgep
03-29-2004, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by santo=dorf
Is it possible for him to get any worse? SEAL, don't you think that extra spot matters to someone like Grilli or Jackson? I think it matters, I was commenting on gosox's comment.

SEALgep
03-29-2004, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica


Part of the roster problem is Guillen's desire to bring Jamie Burke as a third catcher. Why does nobody mention the hole we have at second catcher? Cut Sandy... Buerhle may have something to say about that.

A. Cavatica
03-29-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Buerhle may have something to say about that.

Not his decision. Not mine either, unfortunately.

Jjav829
03-29-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
Not his decision. Not mine either, unfortunately.

Why do you want Sandy gone, and who would you rather have?

SEALgep
03-29-2004, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Why do you want Sandy gone, and who would you rather have? Seriously. He is still a valuable back up for a catcher. I feel lucky to have him. He's a leader in the club house, calls a good game (especially for Buerhle who have a repour with each other), good bat (for a back up especially), and he is still mentoring Olivo.

sas1974
03-29-2004, 09:33 PM
I personally like the decision to carry 11. If you can't get the job down w/ 11, is 12 really going to make a difference?

My only fear is that with more position players, Ozzie my start to "tinker" a little too much.

A. Cavatica
03-29-2004, 09:36 PM
His skills are pretty much gone, but he keeps taking pay cuts, so I don't have a huge problem with him. I just think the "mentor" aspect is overrated, and Burke would be a more cost-effective backup catcher.

sas1974
03-29-2004, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
His skills are pretty much gone, but he keeps taking pay cuts, so I don't have a huge problem with him. I just think the "mentor" aspect is overrated, and Burke would be a more cost-effective backup catcher.

He's cheap. And I really don't think his experience should be underestimated - especially as a catcher. He's like having another coach around.

SEALgep
03-29-2004, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
His skills are pretty much gone, but he keeps taking pay cuts, so I don't have a huge problem with him. I just think the "mentor" aspect is overrated, and Burke would be a more cost-effective backup catcher. Mentoring can be overrated depending on the need for it. I think Olivo is a pretty good catcher as is, but he can improve (even defensively.) Alomar is still teaching, and Olivo has acknowledged he's still learning. Not saying Burke can't teach him, but Alomar is an effective person to take on this role, as well as catch twice a week. Besides, Burke looks to be on the team now that there is going to be 11 pitchers.

Daver
03-29-2004, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Mentoring can be overrated depending on the need for it. I think Olivo is a pretty good catcher as is, but he can improve (even defensively.) Alomar is still teaching, and Olivo has acknowledged he's still learning. Not saying Burke can't teach him, but Alomar is an effective person to take on this role, as well as catch twice a week. Besides, Burke looks to be on the team now that there is going to be 11 pitchers.


Seeing that Burke can't call a game,and neither can Olivo,and the fact that Joe Nosseck is no longer there to do it for them,I think Sandy needs to be around if only to call games from the bench.

The_Floridian
03-29-2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
His skills are pretty much gone, but he keeps taking pay cuts, so I don't have a huge problem with him. I just think the "mentor" aspect is overrated, and Burke would be a more cost-effective backup catcher.

In 1946, a catcher named Yogi Berra broke in with the Yankees. The manager, Casey Stengel, felt that he could become a great catcher if he had the right tutelage. So he brought back aging Bill Dickey, who had been absent fromt he game for two years, to mentor Berra for the season on how to play behind plate.

I think the results of that were pretty good.

Now, I'm not suggesting that Alomar is a HOFer like Dickey. Nor am I suggesting that Olivo is a future Berra.

I'm just saying the mentoring thing cannot be underestimated.

Olivo has one of the best throwing arms in the majors. His defense just needs some work.

And Alomar was, at one time, the best defensive catcher in baseball.

I agree that Burke is more cost-effective, but I also think the three catcher idea is a good one. This will probably be Alomar's last season in the majors, and it will certainly be his last with the Sox. So take advantage of his presence to mentor two good young catchers, before he quits playing and becomes a Hall of Fame manager.

Jjav829
03-29-2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Seeing that Burke can't call a game,and neither can Olivo,and the fact that Joe Nosseck is no longer there to do it for them,I think Sandy needs to be around if only to call games from the bench.

Nah, Ozzie is still there... :D:

voodoochile
03-29-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Seeing that Burke can't call a game,and neither can Olivo,and the fact that Joe Nosseck is no longer there to do it for them,I think Sandy needs to be around if only to call games from the bench.

You don't think Olivo will be allowed to do it this season? I am surprised by that. Is the kid ever going to be able to do so?

Daver
03-29-2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You don't think Olivo will be allowed to do it this season? I am surprised by that. Is the kid ever going to be able to do so?

By the end of this season he will be calling his own games,but to start the season he will probably call games for Garland and Wright only,with help.

SEALgep
03-29-2004, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You don't think Olivo will be allowed to do it this season? I am surprised by that. Is the kid ever going to be able to do so? He was a rookie last season. Besides, he did call a good portion of the games last season. Not the entire games, but he still did.

Veeky
03-30-2004, 01:03 AM
Miguel needs to improve his pitch-calling and glove positioning skills. He still committed too many errors, allowed quite a few pass-balls and wild pitches. His arm, while by far his strongest asset, can still be fined tuned for a quicker release via better footwork and anticipation.

I AM glad his bat has come around this spring. I don't want to see homer runs, but an all-field level stroke and better breaking ball recognition. Can swipe a bag, but needs some work on the bunting.

Yes, Sandy is needed around move than ever. Can still hit -- suprisingly righties better than lefties.

doublem23
03-30-2004, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Seriously. He is still a valuable back up for a catcher. I feel lucky to have him. He's a leader in the club house, calls a good game (especially for Buerhle who have a repour with each other), good bat (for a back up especially), and he is still mentoring Olivo.

Sandy Alomar hasn't been a productive player for at least 2-3 years now. Seriously, if he wanted to stay with the team as a coach, I'd be all for that, but all he does now is just take up a roster spot. Should be a reminder how incredibly thin we are behind the plate right now.

soxfan26
03-30-2004, 08:22 AM
Cooper's comments on Schoeny from the article...

"I'm not thinking the next (start) is make-or-break by any means," Cooper said of Schoeneweis. "It's going to be somebody else to tell me this is his last chance. That's the farthest thing from my mind."

:angry:

At this point, I don't think Grilli has earned a spot over Schoeny, but I hate the idea of loosing him. I don't see the point of bringing Cotts to Chicago to struggle with his control in middle relief. Send Cotts down to AAA, bring Grilli to Chicago and give the Schoeny the #5 spot on a short leash.

voodoochile
03-30-2004, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
Sandy Alomar hasn't been a productive player for at least 2-3 years now. Seriously, if he wanted to stay with the team as a coach, I'd be all for that, but all he does now is just take up a roster spot. Should be a reminder how incredibly thin we are behind the plate right now.

I disagree. It's hard to say how good Olivo will be, but given his rookie year was straight out of AA ball, he has a huge upside. Alomar as a backup for the game or two a week he is needed should be fine. He can hit fairly well and still can call a good game. He also blocks the plate well.

I think catcher is a potential positive on this team.

Frater Perdurabo
03-30-2004, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Seeing that Burke can't call a game,and neither can Olivo,and the fact that Joe Nosseck is no longer there to do it for them,I think Sandy needs to be around if only to call games from the bench.

Good point. Also, Alomar is still good for a huge game at bat every now and then. Not often, but sometimes.

Veeky
03-30-2004, 10:49 AM
Sandy Alomar hasn't been a productive player for at least 2-3 years now

He was productive for us in 2002 (near-800 OPS and solid receiving skills) but his bat dissappeared against LHP last season for some reason. All he has to do is get close to his normal (120 OPS points higher than in 03) production against them, call a good game and mentor Olivo, and he'll be fine. Not a liability in the least -- Olivo should get more atbats at this point, and unlike Sandy, Miguel LOVES LHP.