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View Full Version : White Sox preview up at Baseball Primer.


MarkEdward
03-29-2004, 03:25 PM
I haven't read it yet, but it should be interesting:
http://www.baseballprimer.com/articles/giacalone_2004-03-28_0.shtml

fledgedrallycap
03-29-2004, 04:22 PM
That's a lengthy read. Pretty much right on the money on most of his points. I really enjoyed the part where he broke down our free-agent loses:

Is it a good thing when a team stresses the hiring of a completely inexperienced manager as their prime off-season acquisition? Sad thing is that it probably was their best off-season move. There was a big ruckus in Chicago about how the White Sox lost six "key" free agents, but didn’t pick up anyone significant (no offense to Cliff Politte) in the free agent derby.
Of course, that statement includes a whopper big enough to make the Bush Administration blush. Who among this group were really "key" to White Sox in 2003? Clearly, Colon was, but Chicago offered him ridiculous amount of money before the Angels make an even goofier offer to him. Alomar did nothing for the Sox and looked to the entire world as if he were done. Carl Everett hit well for the Sox (.317/.387/.482) and gave them a left-handed bat but was so bad in center than even gimpy Armando Rios was better. Scott Sullivan pitched all of 14 innings for the Southsiders in 2003. Tom Gordon had a nice season but the Yankees’ rashness in signing him even before the Sox could decline arbitration earned for Chicago a high draft pick. The biggest failure that the Sox made in this off-season was their inability to bring back Tony Graffanino, who can play three infield positions and serve as a much-needed platoon-mate for SS Jose Valentin.

JohnBasedowYoda
03-29-2004, 04:51 PM
i missed tony before he gone

jeremyb1
03-29-2004, 04:54 PM
I didn't like the analysis of Williams as a GM so much. Clearly Gordon was a good pickup. It also seems way too simplistic to look at KW's moves as a whole instead of individually. There's more to deals than getting back more talent than you give up. The market value of the players at the time of each deal is key. The bottom line was correct but some of the analysis was shoddy there.

The player assesments were better. I found them to be a pretty enjoyable read.

MRKARNO
03-29-2004, 08:09 PM
There was a big ruckus in Chicago about how the White Sox lost six "key" free agents, but didn’t pick up anyone significant (no offense to Cliff Politte) in the free agent derby.

Of course, that statement includes a whopper big enough to make the Bush Administration blush. Who among this group were really "key" to White Sox in 2003? Clearly, Colon was, but Chicago offered him ridiculous amount of money before the Angels make an even goofier offer to him. Alomar did nothing for the Sox and looked to the entire world as if he were done. Carl Everett hit well for the Sox (.317/.387/.482) and gave them a left-handed bat but was so bad in center than even gimpy Armando Rios was better. Scott Sullivan pitched all of 14 innings for the Southsiders in 2003. Tom Gordon had a nice season but the Yankees’ rashness in signing him even before the Sox could decline arbitration earned for Chicago a high draft pick. The biggest failure that the Sox made in this off-season was their inability to bring back Tony Graffanino, who can play three infield positions and serve as a much-needed platoon-mate for SS Jose Valentin.

This is what I had been saying all offseason. At least some outsider got it right.

SoxxoS
03-29-2004, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
This is what I had been saying all offseason. At least some outsider got it right.

Did you expect one of the major newspapers too? Or ESPN? You are setting yourself up for failure with that.

doublem23
03-29-2004, 08:30 PM
I like this quote...

Jerry Reinsdorf is arguably the most loyal owner in the major leagues; he’s not likely to dump Williams anytime soon.

:reinsy
I'm loyal as hell; as long as it doesn't cost anything.

A. Cavatica
03-29-2004, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
At least some outsider got it right.

Outsider? Giacalone's a Sox fan through and through. He was one of the few good conttributors on alt.sports.baseball.chi-whitesox.

gosox41
03-29-2004, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
Outsider? Giacalone's a Sox fan through and through. He was one of the few good conttributors on alt.sports.baseball.chi-whitesox.

I remember him. I haven't been on that site in a over a year. Is it still around? Can WSI take them over? There was only like 7-10 guys posting regularly there. Giacalone and McCracken offered great insght.

Bob

shbart
03-29-2004, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I remember him. I haven't been on that site in a over a year. Is it still around? Can WSI take them over? There was only like 7-10 guys posting regularly there. Giacalone and McCracken offered great insght.

Bob

Funny u said that. I was thnking the same thing. I just checked out the newsgroup....nuthin' but tumbleweed....so whatever happened to Voros? ...and Calvatica don't you think we need Giacalone to post here?

A. Cavatica
03-29-2004, 10:34 PM
A newsgroup isn't a website, so it can't be taken over. Yes, it would be good to have both Anthony & Voros posting here.

A. Cavatica
03-29-2004, 10:37 PM
But there are some nut cases I don't miss... :D:

MRKARNO
03-29-2004, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
Outsider? Giacalone's a Sox fan through and through. He was one of the few good conttributors on alt.sports.baseball.chi-whitesox.

I posted that before I actually had read the entire article. After reading the article it became utterly clear that he is a sox fan. My bad.

monkeypants
03-30-2004, 01:20 AM
While I was going to grad school at NIU he was also there getting his Phd. Had a few classes with him and was an acquaintance of his as we were both teaching assistants. He's a very bright guy who's a Sox fan but even more importantly in regards to this article, a huge baseball fan. For the most part he's spot on with his assessment of the club and hasn't let his love of the Sox cloud his judgement. Then again I don't think it's that much off target from some of the things said by many on this board.
I was also in a fantasy league with him for two years and he always cleaned house. My team on the other hand.... :(:

gosox41
03-30-2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by shbart
Funny u said that. I was thnking the same thing. I just checked out the newsgroup....nuthin' but tumbleweed....so whatever happened to Voros? ...and Calvatica don't you think we need Giacalone to post here?

Voros is working for the Red Sox. He's doing some statistical work for them. He was mentioned in Moneyball, but I also remember him questioning the Sox decsions regasrding Bradford pre 2000.

Bob

kermittheefrog
03-30-2004, 12:09 PM
I think his assessment of the team is spot on but saying we have a slim chance of keeping in it down the stretch just isn't true. We may suck but so does everyone else in our division.

Veeky
03-30-2004, 12:45 PM
Few things caught me eye half way through

Konerko’s horrible 2003 season can be partly attributed to an absurdly low 19% hit rate in the first half. This wasn’t all luck, since he was falling behind in the count constantly, lunging at outside pitches, fouling off inside pitches and jamming himself on pitches over the plate. He was in a truly monumental funk. He rebounded well in the second half though, putting up an .863 OPS and hitting 15 homers in 233 at bats. There is no reason to think that he won’t pound out a .850 - .900 OPS in 2004 and resume his role as Carlos Lee’s negative image.

Holy ****! If he does that.....No, no jinxing for me.

Manuel sent him to starboard side of the plate an inexcusable 115 times last season in which Valentin hit .131/.190/.196

The above is just one of the few atrocities perpetrated by Uncle Jerry, Jr.

3 "extra" losses that could have been avoided (both by him and by Kenny who could have gotten a Mike Bordick, LHP-crushing platoon type for practically nothing) right there. Could have used them when Sox were up by 2 in mid-Spetember, I reckon.

[Valentin's] His defense always gets a bad rap but his arm is very strong and his footwork is good. All evidence suggests that he is wonderful on the double play. The extra dozen errors that he usually makes are more than balanced out by the dozen hits in the hole that he takes away and the extra baserunners that he helps eliminate with a nifty 6-4-3.

Gee, someone thinks Valentin is a not a horrible butcher in the field afterall....Who would have known..

And, who knows, if Santana's influence sticks, Val might cut down on those "extra dozen errors" he usually commits. Has been flawless this spring.

Say what you will about White Sox announcer Ken "Hawk" Harrelson (and I’ve said plenty), but he’s the only voice in the game that still tries use nicknames. And I’m not talking about the insipid nicknames derived from a player’s last name that sprung up, as one might have guessed, during the vapid 1980s. Know what I mean, Bainesy? Harrelson has created a score of original monikers that play on the background, style or image of a particular player. For more than a year, Harrelson struggled with a new handle for Carlos Lee, before finally committing to "El Caballo

Go Hawk.

hold2dibber
03-30-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
3 "extra" losses that could have been avoided (both by him and by Kenny who could have gotten a Mike Bordick, LHP-crushing platoon type for practically nothing) right there. Could have used them when Sox were up by 2 in mid-Spetember, I reckon.

KW didn't need to go out and get anyone to platoon with Jose - he had Graffinino, who had an OPS over .900 vs. lefties last year. JM was a complete dunce for allowing Jose to ever step up to the plate with a lefty on the hill - Graffinino should have been there every time.

Veeky
03-30-2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
KW didn't need to go out and get anyone to platoon with Jose - he had Graffinino, who had an OPS over .900 vs. lefties last year. JM was a complete dunce for allowing Jose to ever step up to the plate with a lefty on the hill - Graffinino should have been there every time.

You think 900 OPS is great? Old man Bordick had a 1000 one!

Graffanino is a bad fielder at SS and when Robbie arrived in June, obvisouly as versatile as he is, you couldn't split Tony G in two.

Sox could have given Blue Jays Matt Ginter and Bordick would have been theirs for practically NOTHING. That's what GOOD GMs do -- find all kinds of ways to to improve the team, to give it depth for seemingly little cost. KW failed even when it came to low-key non-moves.

Yes, Manuel failed too. Jose should have been given an ultimatum to switch all-Lefty back in 2001 or else rot on the bench. Sox were out of it, so this experiement was very "affordable" and not only could have spared us the growing pains this year, but also would undoubtedly meant a DIVISIONAL TITLE in 2003 when just a coupla more wins would have meant the world in September.

You think Piniella, Sciossa, Pena would have stood for this ****? You think they would have permitted the player to decide whether the TEAM makes or misses then postseason?

DrCrawdad
04-13-2005, 10:52 AM
But there are some nut cases I don't miss... :D:

Hey, I posted regularly at the Sox NG, are you referring to me?

:)

I somehow missed this discussion the first time round. I stumbled across it when searching for Giacalone posts.