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bigbohock
03-29-2004, 11:02 AM
Here are some ways I think the White Sox could improve attendence:

1.) Bring back the 1983 uniforms.

2.) Stop raising prices.

3.) A more aggressive ad campaign.

4.) Buy one hot dog/ polish get the other one free. Why not?

5.) Bring Carlton Fisk back to the White Sox in some capacity

6.) Show Highlights of 1959, 1983, 1993, and 2000 on the scoreboard.

7.) Bring back the centerfield shower

8.) Let Minnie Minoso play a game.

9.) Bring back McCuddy's Tavern.

10.) Have a return of some of Bill Veeck's crazy promotions, with the exception being Disco Demolition

SoxBoy14
03-29-2004, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by bigbohock


7.) Bring back the centerfield shower

I thought the shower is still there, only in left field?

WinningUgly!
03-29-2004, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by bigbohock
Here are some ways I think the White Sox could improve attendence:

1.) Bring back the 1983 uniforms.

2.) Stop raising prices.

3.) A more aggressive ad campaign.

4.) Buy one hot dog/ polish get the other one free. Why not?

5.) Bring Carlton Fisk back to the White Sox in some capacity

6.) Show Highlights of 1959, 1983, 1993, and 2000 on the scoreboard.

7.) Bring back the centerfield shower

8.) Let Minnie Minoso play a game.

9.) Bring back McCuddy's Tavern.

10.) Have a return of some of Bill Veeck's crazy promotions, with the exception being Disco Demolition

11.) Quit whining & start winning.

1951Campbell
03-29-2004, 11:10 AM
11. Field a winning team.

blueeyes33
03-29-2004, 11:31 AM
theres two kinds of people you want to focus on to come to the park

sox fans and people who arnt really into baseball.

sox fans either A) already come out to games or B) dont come.

in order to get them too come the ONLY thing that will change this is to WIN WIN WIN.

all that other stuff is just gimmicks.no ones going to go to a game just to hang out when the team is loosing or not playing to good.

and as for the people who arnt into baseball all that much the only thing to get them too the park is to WIN as well.

these gimmicks are not going to work.if there going to come out for gimmicks than they are most likely going to go to wrigley field. no matter how much fun we have at our park ...wrigley already has a repuatation for being fun.its not worth competeing over that title.

but if we start doing something with this team than people will take notice and come.

i can care less WERE we play at.as long as we are playing good!

BeerHandle
03-29-2004, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by SoxBoy14
I thought the shower is still there, only in left field?

IT GONE!

Fisk72
03-29-2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
11.) Quit whining & start winning.

I second that!!!

owensmouth
03-29-2004, 12:27 PM
In the past two decades Chicago has experienced a large influx of Latinos. By far the majority of them are Mexican, but other Central American nationalities are involved.

For the most part, African Americans have given up on baseball.

I think the White Sox could, and should, make a major sustained effort to lure these two groups into USCF.

Why are there no Spanish language broadcasts of the Chicago White Sox?

How about advertisements in Spanish with players such as Maglio, Carlos, Jose, E-Lo, etc. The new manager, Ozzie, is White Sox thru and thru and would seem to be a great choice.

If the White Sox want more people to attend their games, they need to try to appeal to more than their core of Sox fans.

voodoochile
03-29-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by bigbohock
Here are some ways I think the White Sox could improve attendence:

1.) Bring back the 1983 uniforms.

2.) Stop raising prices.

3.) A more aggressive ad campaign.

4.) Buy one hot dog/ polish get the other one free. Why not?

5.) Bring Carlton Fisk back to the White Sox in some capacity

6.) Show Highlights of 1959, 1983, 1993, and 2000 on the scoreboard.

7.) Bring back the centerfield shower

8.) Let Minnie Minoso play a game.

9.) Bring back McCuddy's Tavern.

10.) Have a return of some of Bill Veeck's crazy promotions, with the exception being Disco Demolition

1)Good Lord, NO!

2)This year they sort of did that by dropping the UDR seats so dramaticallyin price

3)Like what?

4)Um, cost, but I think having a $1 HD night or at least a few more reasonably priced food options would be a good idea. Not sure it would improve attendance though.

5)Good idea, but again, how does this help attendance?

6) They do this regularly. Perhaps YOU need to go to the park more.

7) CF, LF a shower is a good idea, but not a major draw.

8) NO! MLB wouldn't allow it anyway and it would be back to the days of hype over substnce, besides, it would be one day surge only.

9)Good idea. It should have happened a long time ago.

10) More fun stuff would be a good idea, but they need to concentrate on expanding their season ticket base to seriously raise attendance and the only way to do that is...

11)WIN! WIN! WIN!

HITMEN OF 77
03-29-2004, 12:43 PM
IMO we just need to win. We can have the gimmicks, the giveaways, advertise up and down the state, cater to other ethnic groups and so on and so forth. But the bottom line is we have to WIN.

Irishlawyer
03-29-2004, 12:50 PM
Sell the team to an owner who gives a crap and field a major league baseball team with an organization of people dedicated to winning. I bet that would bring em out in droves.

Hangar18
03-29-2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by blueeyes33

all that other stuff is just gimmicks.no ones going to go to a game just to hang out when the team is losing or not playing to good.


Heh heh, worked for YEARS with that other team 8 miles north

npdempse
03-29-2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
IT GONE!

This is just an unsubstantiated rumor.

The current brochure for season ticket holders, published a couple of weeks ago, includes the shower in the list of ballpark attractions.

Palehose13
03-29-2004, 01:12 PM
2.) Stop raising prices.

Comparison of MLB ticket prices: Lower Deck

The Cell: $32-$22
Yankee Stadium:$95-$55, Bleachers $10
Tropicana Field: $225-$10
Tuner Field: $48-$18
Kauffmann $16-$5
Minute Maid: $42-$21
Comerica: $60-$8
Safeco $50-$17
Angel Stadium $44-$9
Skydome $165-$21

While the Sox have higher priced bleacher seats, I think the Lower deck at USCF is very reasonable. I just wish some of the seats around the infield would be available to the public...

Baby Fisk
03-29-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by bigbohock
1.) Bring back the 1983 uniforms.
They have been brought back as throwbacks, which is enough for this style atrocity.


5.) Bring Carlton Fisk back to the White Sox in some capacity

Fisk won't return while Chairman Jerry walks the earth.


8.) Let Minnie Minoso play a game.

Is this still going on?! I'm reading Minoso's autobiography right now. It was written in 1994 and he comes off as being totally consumed with the idea of playing pro ball in 6 different decades. He missed out on the 90's, why in hell would anyone entertain this idea in the 00's?


10.) Have a return of some of Bill Veeck's crazy promotions, with the exception being Disco Demolition
How about mimicking another former Sox owner: Charles Comiskey, who for a while was the Steinbrenner of his time and wouldn't hesitate to raid other teams for star players. He's the last owner to build a World Series winner. Veeck was loveable, but brought us zero championships.

DirtySouthsider
03-29-2004, 01:22 PM
Why does this list have nothing to do with baseball?

My list:

1.) Put a team on the field that plays hard

2.) Put a team on the field that wins


Originally posted by bigbohock
Here are some ways I think the White Sox could improve attendence:

1.) Bring back the 1983 uniforms.

2.) Stop raising prices.

3.) A more aggressive ad campaign.

4.) Buy one hot dog/ polish get the other one free. Why not?

5.) Bring Carlton Fisk back to the White Sox in some capacity

6.) Show Highlights of 1959, 1983, 1993, and 2000 on the scoreboard.

7.) Bring back the centerfield shower

8.) Let Minnie Minoso play a game.

9.) Bring back McCuddy's Tavern.

10.) Have a return of some of Bill Veeck's crazy promotions, with the exception being Disco Demolition

Mickster
03-29-2004, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by DirtySouthsider
Why does this list have nothing to do with baseball?

My list:

1.) Put a team on the field that plays hard

2.) Put a team on the field that wins


DING..DING..DING..DING..DING..DING..

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER! :)

steff
03-29-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Heh heh, worked for YEARS with that other team 8 miles north



Henry.. dear.. have you ever been tested for OCD...? :D:

steff
03-29-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
DING..DING..DING..DING..DING..DING..

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER! :)



Oh.. nice line. :D:

thepaulbowski
03-29-2004, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Heh heh, worked for YEARS with that other team 8 miles north

We are talking about Sox fans not Cub fans. Gimmicks won't bring them to the park. Winning conistantly will bring Sox fans to the park.

Iwritecode
03-29-2004, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
4)Um, cost, but I think having a $1 HD night or at least a few more reasonably priced food options would be a good idea. Not sure it would improve attendance though.

If you didn't know it already, every Thursday home game is "dollar dog day presented by Ball Park Franks".

Originally posted by voodoochile
11)WIN! WIN! WIN!

Like the previous posts in this thread have already mentioned, this is all that matters...

npdempse
03-29-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk

Is this still going on?! I'm reading Minoso's autobiography right now. It was written in 1994 and he comes off as being totally consumed with the idea of playing pro ball in 6 different decades. He missed out on the 90's, why in hell would anyone entertain this idea in the 00's?
[/B]

He pinch hit last year for a minor league team in Minnesota.

Baby Fisk
03-29-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by npdempse
He pinch hit last year for a minor league team in Minnesota.

So this would give him:

- 5 decades in the majors
- 7 decades in baseball

Not too shabby, but it's time to let it go, no?

Frater Perdurabo
03-29-2004, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by owensmouth
In the past two decades Chicago has experienced a large influx of Latinos. By far the majority of them are Mexican, but other Central American nationalities are involved.

For the most part, African Americans have given up on baseball.

I think the White Sox could, and should, make a major sustained effort to lure these two groups into USCF.

Why are there no Spanish language broadcasts of the Chicago White Sox?

How about advertisements in Spanish with players such as Maglio, Carlos, Jose, E-Lo, etc. The new manager, Ozzie, is White Sox thru and thru and would seem to be a great choice.

If the White Sox want more people to attend their games, they need to try to appeal to more than their core of Sox fans.

These are great ideas. Of course a winning team will draw the fans. But that doesn't mean marketing isn't an important part of the equation as well.

DrummerGeorgefan
03-29-2004, 03:31 PM
Yeah didnt the Sox used to have a spanish broadcast team at one time?

jortafan
03-29-2004, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by owensmouth
In the past two decades Chicago has experienced a large influx of Latinos. By far the majority of them are Mexican, but other Central American nationalities are involved.

For the most part, African Americans have given up on baseball.

I think the White Sox could, and should, make a major sustained effort to lure these two groups into USCF.

Why are there no Spanish language broadcasts of the Chicago White Sox?

How about advertisements in Spanish with players such as Maglio, Carlos, Jose, E-Lo, etc. The new manager, Ozzie, is White Sox thru and thru and would seem to be a great choice.

If the White Sox want more people to attend their games, they need to try to appeal to more than their core of Sox fans.

Actually, the White Sox have done some of that this winter. The two Spanish-language television stations in Chicago have aired commercials emphasizing Ozzie and Esteban Loiaza, and I believe Ozzie is going to be doing a weekly baseball talk show on Channel 44.

For those of you who can stumble through Spanish, it could be entertaining.

hsnterprize
03-30-2004, 06:45 AM
It's already been stated, but other than making U.S. Cellular Field a tourist attraction like Wrigley, the only real way the Sox are going to have consistently good attendance is by winning ON the field. All the off-the-field marketing and promotion is good, but giving away cheap hot dogs or having Elvis impersonators won't do a bit of good if the hot dogs on the grass send fans to the Heartbreak Hotel. Fireworks in the sky won't substitute for a lack of fireworks on the field. And what's the sense in letting little kids run the bases after a game if the "kids" can't run the bases during the game. You see where I'm coming from?

SSN721
03-30-2004, 07:27 AM
I agree that winning is the most important thing to get fans to come out. I also think that the other sentiments expressed about reaching out to Latino communties is also a great idea. For a team that is majority Latino I think we should market that, seems like an untapped resource of fans just waiting to be ushered into the ballpark. I think doing Spanish broadcasts of games and extensive marketing of players like Maggs, Loaiza, Lee, and manager Guillen would be a great start. I know it wont solve all the attendence woes but could start up a whole new fanbase that will be valuable in the future.

doublem23
03-30-2004, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by bigbohock

1.) Bring back the 1983 uniforms.


Dear god no.

hsnterprize
03-30-2004, 08:53 AM
"For the most part, African Americans have given up on baseball." As said by owensmouth...

As an "African-American" myself, I'm afraid I'll have to take some issue with that statement. While there is a strong interest in backetball and football amongst us black people, there is still a considerable amount of blacks who are interested in baseball. However, like people within other demographics...MARKETING TO A SPECIFIC GROUP is still a good tool to draw interest.

I've noticed suggestions to market to the hispanic population with the popularity of such Sox personnel like Ozzie and Maggs. Guess what...what color is Frank Thomas? Remember a few years ago when Big Frank was the most popular baseball player in Chicago and one of the more popular players in baseball? Granted, he isn't the "media darling" Sammy Sosa is, but there is potential to promote players like him and other blacks on the Sox like the potential to promote hispanic players. Not to mention, when a player is doing well and a team is winning, that player's popularity exceeds all racial bounds. How many black, white, and asian people are wearing Sosa-related T-shirts and jerseys?

Don't discount the influence and interests of the black community. There's a long-standing edict within our sectors that says if you look out for us, we'll look out for you. That's universal for everyone, but we blacks really emphasize that. Anyway, football and basketball players are doing something baseball players need to do more of...and that's reaching out to their audience. We hear constantly about b-ball and f-ball players going to black neighborhoods and reaching out kids in the community. Baseball players were doing that for a long time, and they still do that to a certain extent. But considering how badly baseball is PR-wise, I think it'll be great if players of ALL races and ethnicities reached out to kids...especially in the non-affluent areas where people can't afford to go out to games as often as before.

I know there are a lot of black people who are wearing baseball merchandise just for the fashion of it. Believe it or not, there are plenty of black baseball fans out there...those who'll actually follow a team start to finish. Teams just have to reach out to the people just like they have to reach out to other ethnicities and demographics.

voodoochile
03-30-2004, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by hsnterprize
"For the most part, African Americans have given up on baseball." As said by owensmouth...

As an "African-American" myself, I'm afraid I'll have to take some issue with that statement. While there is a strong interest in backetball and football amongst us black people, there is still a considerable amount of blacks who are interested in baseball. However, like people within other demographics...MARKETING TO A SPECIFIC GROUP is still a good tool to draw interest.

I've noticed suggestions to market to the hispanic population with the popularity of such Sox personnel like Ozzie and Maggs. Guess what...what color is Frank Thomas? Remember a few years ago when Big Frank was the most popular baseball player in Chicago and one of the more popular players in baseball? Granted, he isn't the "media darling" Sammy Sosa is, but there is potential to promote players like him and other blacks on the Sox like the potential to promote hispanic players. Not to mention, when a player is doing well and a team is winning, that player's popularity exceeds all racial bounds. How many black, white, and asian people are wearing Sosa-related T-shirts and jerseys?

Don't discount the influence and interests of the black community. There's a long-standing edict within our sectors that says if you look out for us, we'll look out for you. That's universal for everyone, but we blacks really emphasize that. Anyway, football and basketball players are doing something baseball players need to do more of...and that's reaching out to their audience. We hear constantly about b-ball and f-ball players going to black neighborhoods and reaching out kids in the community. Baseball players were doing that for a long time, and they still do that to a certain extent. But considering how badly baseball is PR-wise, I think it'll be great if players of ALL races and ethnicities reached out to kids...especially in the non-affluent areas where people can't afford to go out to games as often as before.

I know there are a lot of black people who are wearing baseball merchandise just for the fashion of it. Believe it or not, there are plenty of black baseball fans out there...those who'll actually follow a team start to finish. Teams just have to reach out to the people just like they have to reach out to other ethnicities and demographics.

The problem is that if JR actually markets players, then he is not only increasing their value - which means he has to pay more come FA time - but more than likely ticking off a bunch of people who have become attached to said player when that player inevitably gets traded or dumped during FA.

Marketing the individuals means JR has to put up or shut up come contract time. Given his propensity for dumping big money stars, he would be better off finding another way to bring in various groups because this plan will just lead to a LOT more ill-will down the road...

:reinsy
"players don't win championships, organizations win championships."

Frankfan4life
03-30-2004, 04:16 PM
For the most part, African Americans have given up on baseball.

Where did you get that information?

The Sox have a lot of black fans, me included, and I attend over a dozen games a year. My father was a Sox fan and I raised my son to be a Sox fan. African Americans have always been in the minority at all spectator sports, including basketball where the majority of players are African Americans. That does not mean that they have no interest in the sport. Most just follow the games on television and radio.

I would like to see an all-out effort on the part of the White Sox to try to get more African Americans to come out to the ballpark to see the games. More African American fans need to be featured in advertising and on the scoreboard in between innings. I also think the Sox should be a major presence at every Bud Biliken and southside St. Pat parade. I think being in the Bridgeport area has made a lot of African Americans cautious about coming to USCF. Some effort should be made to show that there are no racial incidents at or near the games. Whenever I talk to an African American who says he is a Cubs fan, I say "Oh, you were born on the north side?" If he says, no, then I say, "Then why are you a Cubs fan." The Sox need to do more promotions of the south side as a drawing point.


The fact that the Sox were the only ML team with a black GM and a black manager should have been a major drawing point. The organization has to take advantage of stuff like that with better P.R.

I agree that the Sox are primarily appealing to their fan base instead of attempting to broaden their base. I think the "Valley Girl" ads from last year were terrible. Why not have a black female, a white female and a Hispanic female do an ad together? Why not have a black guy and a Hispanic guy discussing the White Sox?

White Sox marketing can and need to do a lot better.

mweflen
03-30-2004, 07:06 PM
attendance boosters:

1. half price monday thru wednesday. no pepsi cans, no gimmicks. just cheap tickets.

2. or, better still, 5 dollar upper deck tix monday thru thursday. Putting a new lid on a trash can doesn't make people want to sit in it more.

(which is not to say i dislike the upper deck. actually, I like it a lot. but the general opinion out there is that it stinks)

fuzzy_patters
03-30-2004, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by bigbohock
Here are some ways I think the White Sox could improve attendence:

1.) Bring back the 1983 uniforms.

2.) Stop raising prices.

3.) A more aggressive ad campaign.

4.) Buy one hot dog/ polish get the other one free. Why not?

5.) Bring Carlton Fisk back to the White Sox in some capacity

6.) Show Highlights of 1959, 1983, 1993, and 2000 on the scoreboard.

7.) Bring back the centerfield shower

8.) Let Minnie Minoso play a game.

9.) Bring back McCuddy's Tavern.

10.) Have a return of some of Bill Veeck's crazy promotions, with the exception being Disco Demolition

What if they were to try a commitment to winning for an extended period of time? It might work better than the current commitment to whining strategy they are currently employing.

MisterB
03-30-2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by owensmouth
For the most part, African Americans have given up on baseball.

Originally posted by Frankfan4life
Where did you get that information?

Take a gander at this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/07/10/black_ballplayer/) .

beckett21
03-30-2004, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
Take a gander at this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/07/10/black_ballplayer/) .

I hadn't seen that article, but sometime last week I heard that stat about there being only 5 black starting pitchers in MLB. That is a staggering statistic.

I don't know what the answer is, but certainly at the youth level there at least is the appearance of a lack of interest. Part of it may have to do with the fact that kids need more equipment to play baseball, which costs more money. Take hockey for example--you have to have big bucks to put your kid in a hockey program. Or golf--that's another good example. Not as much equipment is necessarily required for baseball obviously, but you need a modest amount, plus you need enough other kids to play who also have the same equipment. Anyone can pick up a basketball and shoot hoops by themselves on any playground. It is much cheaper, and does not require any organization whatsoever. You can always get a pickup basketball game--can the same be said for baseball? Of course not.

Baseball needs to focus on more youth programs in underprivileged areas if they want to attract the kids to their sport. Otherwise, it will only be for the more affluent, and the rest of the kids will just keep shooting hoops because it is most readily available to them. That is not meant to stereotype, and hopefully that doesn't come off as offensive. It can be said for any minority or underprivileged group, whites included. If a child does not have the means or the opportunity to play baseball, they won't. That is different from saying that the black community does not have any interest in baseball--I do not think that is accurate by any means. IIRC Hank Aaron is in charge of working on this for MLB; they are aware of it. I wholeheartedly wish him luck.

Daver
03-30-2004, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by beckett21


Baseball needs to focus on more youth programs in underprivileged areas if they want to attract the kids to their sport. Otherwise, it will only be for the more affluent, and the rest of the kids will just keep shooting hoops because it is most readily available to them. That is not meant to stereotype, and hopefully that doesn't come off as offensive. It can be said for any minority or underprivileged group, whites included. If a child does not have the means or the opportunity to play baseball, they won't. That is different from saying that the black community does not have any interest in baseball--I do not think that is accurate by any means. IIRC Hank Aaron is in charge of working on this for MLB; they are aware of it. I wholeheartedly wish him luck.


The White Sox are very active in youth baseball,both through renovating innercity ballparks as well as their traveling baseball camps for kids,which visit the ballparks the Sox have renovated and or built.

Rex Hudler
03-30-2004, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
attendance boosters:

1. half price monday thru wednesday. no pepsi cans, no gimmicks. just cheap tickets.

2. or, better still, 5 dollar upper deck tix monday thru thursday. Putting a new lid on a trash can doesn't make people want to sit in it more.

(which is not to say i dislike the upper deck. actually, I like it a lot. but the general opinion out there is that it stinks)

Here are a couple of thoughts, aside from the ones already mentioned including but not limited to a winning club....

1. Making a commitment to the fans. After this season announce that the Sox will not go up in price in tickets for the 2005 season. Be bold and freeze ticket prices for two seasons! Hell, announce it anytime.

2. Offer a special incentive for all season ticket holders, both full and partial, to renew early. Make a special offer for those willing to commit for 2 seasons. Be different and offer one extra game for free. There are a ton of directions they could go, but making a concerted commitment to their fans for making a commitment in return to the Sox.

3. Focus on selling out the lower of the level first. Offer an incentive to upgrade upper deck seats to lower level seats (with certain restrictions) other than just paying full price.

These incentives don't have to be huge, but they have to be real. They need to fill the lower level every game first, then work toward the upper deck. Giving fans a reason to try something different or to upgrade from a 9 game plan to a 15 game plan can make a huge difference in the bottom line.

I would guess the Sox will do some of these types of things now, but my guess is they could be more creative. The key is to do these things to make a commitment to the fans, and not have it come across as gimmiky or bribing them. Turn this into a PR campaign, not just a sales pitch from a ticket rep. Spend marketing dollars in October and November letting people know the renewed commitment to the fan experience.

The bottom line is, without being stupid, the Sox need to be bold and be different. There is too high of a level of distrust to do this without making real changes. An open letter to Sox fans on a half page newspaper ad to kick this off would be nice. Again, they have to back up their promises and make changes. Re-building trust will not happen quickly, so they have to be consistent and not just do this as a "one-hit wonder".

Veeky
03-30-2004, 10:50 PM
1.) Bring back the 1983 uniforms.

2.) Stop raising prices.

3.) A more aggressive ad campaign.

5.) Bring Carlton Fisk back to the White Sox in some capacity

1) **** no. Those were super-ugly.

2) Not gonna happen. Sox tics are still one of the cheapest in the game and with all of the promotions....quit bitching in other words and get your asses into the park to support your team.

3) I think the key is BETTER ad campaign. The last few have been horrible.

5) Absolutely. His ego, however, will make it problematic.


You forgot the biggest one:

A CONSISTENT WINNER.

mweflen
03-31-2004, 01:04 AM
some promotions i think might have an impact:

1. some sort of CTA incentive program. since I live in chicago close to the brown line, i'd have to be on quaaludes to pony up $15 per game for parking (regardless of how close the lot is, always a ripoff in my mind). So i take the brown line to the red line, about a 40 minute commute to the park.

so i don't know what the marketing research is, but i think it would be cool if you could buy day-of-game discounted tickets with your CTA pass - kind of an incentive to take the train and not clog the Dan Ryan with yet another SUV. maybe half price monday thru thursday?

2. the dollar hot dog day is a great idea. GREAT idea. if it were more heavily publicized, i think it would generate some interest among casual fans. food discounts in general are a great thing, considering the current prices... with the exception of beer of course (wouldn't want any mass drunken hysteria) Soft drinks are the biggest rip-off around - a cup of watered down pepsi which costs 7 or 8 cents to pour is priced at $3. ouch!

3. Child discounts. Kids under 10 should be able to get tickets for $5 on the day of game. most kids this young are bored silly anyway - making the parent fork out $40 for them is just criminal - and counterintuitive marketing - you'll never get kids hooked if all they can do is watch on TV

as far as "people stop whining and support the team" regardless of prices, i don't know about that. taking a family of 4 to a ballgame without half-price nights is HARD! let's say you don't have money to burn (i.e. 300 level) but want DECENT seats down a foul line (not counting the neck strain due to the angle). on a weeknight (game starting at 7:05, out at 10:10 or so - what do do with the kids?) these tickets run $28 a pop. so there you have $112 for the night, no food, no parking, no nothing. add parking ($15) that's $127. Hot dogs at $2.50 and sodas at $3.00 times 4 brings the total to $149. Lets say you're frugal and just want the scorecard, no program. And maybe a big foam finger to entertain the little ones. So now we're over the $150 mark.

Tell me - what kind of working class family with kids in school can afford this more than once a month at most?

Now, if we had half price weeknights and dollar hot dogs, the total would plummet to $89. If they sold small sodas for $1, the total would go down further to $81.

If they had a $5 upper deck weeknight promotion (minus the food discounts), a family could park, eat and watch the game for $57.

When you're drawing 15,000 to 20,000 on a nice night for a contending team, you need to get creative and add some value for the consumer. Sox fans in general tend toward the more working class, non-Cubbie-yuppie demographic. Allow them the ability to come to the park once a week, not once a year! More money is made with concessions, parking and advertising revenue than ticket costs, anyway. get the people INTO the park in the first place, and the money will flow.

Jerko
03-31-2004, 01:29 AM
Obviously, winning is the main thing here. But, in my experiences over the years, there are a lot of things that go on INSIDE the park that need to be addressed too. I have been to many games recently with "first timers", and some of the following things have soured them from ever wanting to come back again. I will put them in question format, open to Sox management....

How about training the staff, ushers, and vendors to quit treating the clientele like crap and to do their jobs without making us feel like we're "bothering" them? I know there are some good ones but there are some nasty ones too. How about having ALL the lower level stands OPEN, even on nights with bad attendance, so you don't have to walk from the left field bleachers to behind home plate to get a hot dog or a beer? How about leaving ALL the bathrooms open AFTER the game on those same nights; some people DO go before they leave if they have a long ride home. How about relaxing the UD policy on weeknights when the park is empty? (I agree with the UD policy on half price nights and weekends) How about making the fans feel like you WANT us in the park, not like you're just waiting for us to leave? How about giving access to areas of the park that remain open AFTER the game (stadium club, bullpen bar) from INSIDE the park instead of blocking off the concourse and making everybody leave the park before they could get back in? How about letting handicapped people who take the elevator UP to their seats take the elevator back down instead of trying to negotiate 16 ramps in a wheelchair? How about leaving things that used to be free, free (the upper level of the bullpen bar USED to be free, and I'm sure it will cost you sooner or later to sit in/on the fan deck). Now I'm happy with sitting in my seat or watching the game from the concourse by our beer guy, so I don't really care about some of that stuff above, but trying to "win" new fans or to get the old ones to come back, they just won't if it's gonna be a hassle all the time and they're not made to feel welcome by the workers there.

JohnBasedowYoda
03-31-2004, 01:33 AM
how about that one beer vendor on the ld that goes "MILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR LIIIIIIIITE!!!" in a raspy voice....awexome

mweflen
03-31-2004, 01:41 AM
the scottie pippen vendor is one of my favorites, too. or the "diet beeeerrrr..." guy.

BIG agreement on security personnel - although I hate everything Cubs with a passion, I have to give them ONE thing - their usher staff and security personnel are some of the friendliest in baseball.

my biggest peeves:

no backpacks? come ON. we live in one of the coldest, wettest baseball cities, with no retractable roof. we need an F-ing bag to carry an extra coat, umbrellas, etc. in. You can search it if you want - but don't treat me like F-ing Osama because I want to bring it from work with me to the park.

ticket checking. any fan worth his salt knows that it's not only a time honored tradition, but practically a god given RIGHT for Sox fans to scope out better seats and camp out there. Does it really matter is someone in 151 row 8 decides he'd rather sit in 148 row 25 so that his neck doesn't slip a disc? if no one wants the seat, LAY OFF.

in general, the attitude of the off-duty cops is ATROCIOUS towards paying customers. they treat people like suspects, not like patrons. just generally unpleasant.

keep in mind, I'm no field jumper or booze smuggler. I want to buy my darn scorecard, camp out in 533 row 6, and be able to get my coat out of my backpack if a chill wind starts blowing. what the heck is wrong with that?

Frankfan4life
03-31-2004, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
Take a gander at this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/07/10/black_ballplayer/) .

Thanks for posting the link. I knew that there was a drop-off of African American baseball players. This is a very sad situation. I hope ML baseball and the players are successful in boosting the numbers of African American players. However, I still believe the Sox can and should do more to attract African American fans to the ballpark. The Sox have a huge number of black fans who just donít go the ballpark.

I'd also like to suggest:

(1) That instead of singing "Take me out to the ballgame" during the 7th inning stretch, we sing the "Na Na Hey Hey" song (the "real" version not the NF organ version). Let's face it, the Cubs took that song and made it a successful part of their tradition by getting celebrities to sing it and quite frankly, I kind of hate the song now. We need to create our own tradition.

(2) Have some kind of "reality show" type of contest featuring Sox fans that would last all season. The winner would get season tickets or some other kind of great prize. This could create national exposure.

(3) Have a day of game contest where a fan could win a prize by being the best-dressed Sox fan or by answering a trivia question. Prizes could include tickets, an autographed baseball, a jersey or free food.

steff
03-31-2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Veeky
5) Absolutely. His ego, however, will make it problematic.



Love to start my day with a good healthy "LOL"

hsnterprize
03-31-2004, 08:57 AM
"Thanks for posting the link. I knew that there was a drop-off of African American baseball players. This is a very sad situation. I hope ML baseball and the players are successful in boosting the numbers of African American players. However, I still believe the Sox can and should do more to attract African American fans to the ballpark. The Sox have a huge number of black fans who just donít go the ballpark." As posted by Frankfan4Life...

That last line hit it right on the head. I've talked with a TON of black Sox fans who won't go to the ballpark. I also see a lot of Cubbie wearing folks out there. In fact, I've even debated how the Cubs will perform this year with black fans. One guy I saw interrupted me and another Sox fan's conversation by say, "I'm a Sox fan, and I'm saying the Cubs will do it this year." He really didn't have a good reason why other than all the typical Cubbie-hype. Others I've seen tout the ever-familiar yet always annoying, "It's Chicago, so I gotta support 'em." Bernie Mac and WGCI morning personality "Crazy" Howard McGee have been heard publicly saying they were rooting for the Cubs even though their roots have been more towards the Sox.

I've heard several reasons why black fans won't go to the Cell...no time, not enough incentive, news of attacks of black people in the Bridgeport neighborhood, etc. I'm not trying to start a race war in Bridgeport...I have in-laws who work there, and I don't have a problem with the place. In fact, I like the neighborhood.

Bottom line...the Sox need to market their team better to EVERYONE. Each demographic, whether it's gender, age, or race-related, has its own niche. The Sox need to learn what makes folks tick, and try to reach out to those fans.

Jerko
03-31-2004, 09:47 AM
Anybody who is REALLY afraid of the neighborhood probably doesn't know that they could park (they'd have to shell out 15 or 16 bucks though) in the lot on 37th and Princeton which is connected to the park. You don't even have to walk in the hood if you park there. Of course, I am sure that is common knowledge to people who are not familiar with the place.

thepaulbowski
03-31-2004, 10:03 AM
Besides the winning they could actually have decent customer service. Case & point: I have had split season tickets for the last four years. I had them use the money from the phantom playoff tickets to apply towards a deposit for this years tickets. After receiving no notice that our weekend tickets price were going up, I decided it wasn't worthwhile because of the money and I wouldn't be able to make a good portion of the games. I told them this in mid-January. They said they would get me a check out. Supposively, they sent a check out in early Feb. I never received it, and have yet to receive a check. I called to ask what was going on, the guy would "check into it." I told them as soon as I get the check, I was going to do the 9 game package. Still no repsonse. I have called weekly since early Feb about this, and usually get stuck in voice mail and get no response. Or I may get an e-mail back because the guy is too much of wuss to talk to me on the phone. I have left messages each day since this last Friday, no response yet. This is beyond unbelievable. It's no longer about the money, it's about the terrible service they provide. These people are idiots with no regard for their customers.

I'm done with this organization, I was going to buy the 9 game package...there's no way in hell I'm doing that now. I was thinking that I'd probably get split season again next year, not now. Why should I ever go to a Sox game again? I've already picked up tickets for a Brewers game this year and I'll probably go to more Brewer games than Sox games despite living blocks from Sox Park.

White Sox baseball, customer service at its finest.

Jerko
03-31-2004, 10:24 AM
Customer relations is the SECOND thing they have to do to get better crowds, right behind winning. I would even say that's 1 and 1A. My ticket person is pretty good, but I HAVE heard horror stories about some of the reps they have there. They DO treat you like crap there; I've been a stadium club member for years, and once you get up there, THEY treat you great; it's getting there through the wall of ushers and guards that's the problem. I don't appreciate not having access to parts of the park that I have to PAY EXTRA to get into. The main reason I kept my weekend plan is because most of my married buddies have it too and that's really the only chance I get to hang out with them anymore. Either that or get married myself. One night was especially bad; I think it was last May 1, I met a girl there that I used to work with because it was her birthday, and it was a rainy night, and instead of like, being nice or even appreciative to the people who actually had the moxie to show up and stay that night, we got the big "it's time to go, please leave the park" speech and the game wasn't even over yet. I stayed to the bitter end just to keep those jerks there longer.

thepaulbowski
03-31-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
Customer relations is the SECOND thing they have to do to get better crowds, right behind winning. I would even say that's 1 and 1A. My ticket person is pretty good, but I HAVE heard horror stories about some of the reps they have there. They DO treat you like crap there; I've been a stadium club member for years, and once you get up there, THEY treat you great; it's getting there through the wall of ushers and guards that's the problem. I don't appreciate not having access to parts of the park that I have to PAY EXTRA to get into. The main reason I kept my weekend plan is because most of my married buddies have it too and that's really the only chance I get to hang out with them anymore. Either that or get married myself. One night was especially bad; I think it was last May 1, I met a girl there that I used to work with because it was her birthday, and it was a rainy night, and instead of like, being nice or even appreciative to the people who actually had the moxie to show up and stay that night, we got the big "it's time to go, please leave the park" speech and the game wasn't even over yet. I stayed to the bitter end just to keep those jerks there longer.

That's way I enjoy going to games at Miller Park. The ushers don't rush you out after game and make leave through gates on the opposite side of park that you need to be on. The Sox are just mental midgets when it comes to customer relations. But why should the Sox worry about customer relations, they have fans begging to come to games.

Veeky
03-31-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by steff
Love to start my day with a good healthy "LOL"

Tell The Passion of the Pudge I said 'Hi'. She be pretty.

ewokpelts
03-31-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
Besides the winning they could actually have decent customer service. Case & point: I have had split season tickets for the last four years. I had them use the money from the phantom playoff tickets to apply towards a deposit for this years tickets. After receiving no notice that our weekend tickets price were going up, I decided it wasn't worthwhile because of the money and I wouldn't be able to make a good portion of the games. I told them this in mid-January. They said they would get me a check out. Supposively, they sent a check out in early Feb. I never received it, and have yet to receive a check. I called to ask what was going on, the guy would "check into it." I told them as soon as I get the check, I was going to do the 9 game package. Still no repsonse. I have called weekly since early Feb about this, and usually get stuck in voice mail and get no response. Or I may get an e-mail back because the guy is too much of wuss to talk to me on the phone. I have left messages each day since this last Friday, no response yet. This is beyond unbelievable. It's no longer about the money, it's about the terrible service they provide. These people are idiots with no regard for their customers.

I'm done with this organization, I was going to buy the 9 game package...there's no way in hell I'm doing that now. I was thinking that I'd probably get split season again next year, not now. Why should I ever go to a Sox game again? I've already picked up tickets for a Brewers game this year and I'll probably go to more Brewer games than Sox games despite living blocks from Sox Park.

White Sox baseball, customer service at its finest.

Call the ticket office line direct, and DEMAND TO SPEAK TO THE MANAGER. Also, threaten to call the newspapers and Better Buisness Bureau about this. That'll make them act. If you want your money, you should get it back.
Gene

ewokpelts
03-31-2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Here are a couple of thoughts, aside from the ones already mentioned including but not limited to a winning club....

1. Making a commitment to the fans. After this season announce that the Sox will not go up in price in tickets for the 2005 season. Be bold and freeze ticket prices for two seasons! Hell, announce it anytime.

2. Offer a special incentive for all season ticket holders, both full and partial, to renew early. Make a special offer for those willing to commit for 2 seasons. Be different and offer one extra game for free. There are a ton of directions they could go, but making a concerted commitment to their fans for making a commitment in return to the Sox.

3. Focus on selling out the lower of the level first. Offer an incentive to upgrade upper deck seats to lower level seats (with certain restrictions) other than just paying full price.

These incentives don't have to be huge, but they have to be real. They need to fill the lower level every game first, then work toward the upper deck. Giving fans a reason to try something different or to upgrade from a 9 game plan to a 15 game plan can make a huge difference in the bottom line.

I would guess the Sox will do some of these types of things now, but my guess is they could be more creative. The key is to do these things to make a commitment to the fans, and not have it come across as gimmiky or bribing them. Turn this into a PR campaign, not just a sales pitch from a ticket rep. Spend marketing dollars in October and November letting people know the renewed commitment to the fan experience.

The bottom line is, without being stupid, the Sox need to be bold and be different. There is too high of a level of distrust to do this without making real changes. An open letter to Sox fans on a half page newspaper ad to kick this off would be nice. Again, they have to back up their promises and make changes. Re-building trust will not happen quickly, so they have to be consistent and not just do this as a "one-hit wonder".

I agree 100%
Gene

ewokpelts
03-31-2004, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
some promotions i think might have an impact:

1. some sort of CTA incentive program. since I live in chicago close to the brown line, i'd have to be on quaaludes to pony up $15 per game for parking (regardless of how close the lot is, always a ripoff in my mind). So i take the brown line to the red line, about a 40 minute commute to the park.

so i don't know what the marketing research is, but i think it would be cool if you could buy day-of-game discounted tickets with your CTA pass - kind of an incentive to take the train and not clog the Dan Ryan with yet another SUV. maybe half price monday thru thursday?

2. the dollar hot dog day is a great idea. GREAT idea. if it were more heavily publicized, i think it would generate some interest among casual fans. food discounts in general are a great thing, considering the current prices... with the exception of beer of course (wouldn't want any mass drunken hysteria) Soft drinks are the biggest rip-off around - a cup of watered down pepsi which costs 7 or 8 cents to pour is priced at $3. ouch!

3. Child discounts. Kids under 10 should be able to get tickets for $5 on the day of game. most kids this young are bored silly anyway - making the parent fork out $40 for them is just criminal - and counterintuitive marketing - you'll never get kids hooked if all they can do is watch on TV

as far as "people stop whining and support the team" regardless of prices, i don't know about that. taking a family of 4 to a ballgame without half-price nights is HARD! let's say you don't have money to burn (i.e. 300 level) but want DECENT seats down a foul line (not counting the neck strain due to the angle). on a weeknight (game starting at 7:05, out at 10:10 or so - what do do with the kids?) these tickets run $28 a pop. so there you have $112 for the night, no food, no parking, no nothing. add parking ($15) that's $127. Hot dogs at $2.50 and sodas at $3.00 times 4 brings the total to $149. Lets say you're frugal and just want the scorecard, no program. And maybe a big foam finger to entertain the little ones. So now we're over the $150 mark.

Tell me - what kind of working class family with kids in school can afford this more than once a month at most?

Now, if we had half price weeknights and dollar hot dogs, the total would plummet to $89. If they sold small sodas for $1, the total would go down further to $81.

If they had a $5 upper deck weeknight promotion (minus the food discounts), a family could park, eat and watch the game for $57.

When you're drawing 15,000 to 20,000 on a nice night for a contending team, you need to get creative and add some value for the consumer. Sox fans in general tend toward the more working class, non-Cubbie-yuppie demographic. Allow them the ability to come to the park once a week, not once a year! More money is made with concessions, parking and advertising revenue than ticket costs, anyway. get the people INTO the park in the first place, and the money will flow.

Email Rob Gallas your resume. Mebbe he'll listen to you.
Gene

ewokpelts
03-31-2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
Obviously, winning is the main thing here. But, in my experiences over the years, there are a lot of things that go on INSIDE the park that need to be addressed too. I have been to many games recently with "first timers", and some of the following things have soured them from ever wanting to come back again. I will put them in question format, open to Sox management....

How about training the staff, ushers, and vendors to quit treating the clientele like crap and to do their jobs without making us feel like we're "bothering" them? I know there are some good ones but there are some nasty ones too. How about having ALL the lower level stands OPEN, even on nights with bad attendance, so you don't have to walk from the left field bleachers to behind home plate to get a hot dog or a beer? How about leaving ALL the bathrooms open AFTER the game on those same nights; some people DO go before they leave if they have a long ride home. How about relaxing the UD policy on weeknights when the park is empty? (I agree with the UD policy on half price nights and weekends) How about making the fans feel like you WANT us in the park, not like you're just waiting for us to leave? How about giving access to areas of the park that remain open AFTER the game (stadium club, bullpen bar) from INSIDE the park instead of blocking off the concourse and making everybody leave the park before they could get back in? How about letting handicapped people who take the elevator UP to their seats take the elevator back down instead of trying to negotiate 16 ramps in a wheelchair? How about leaving things that used to be free, free (the upper level of the bullpen bar USED to be free, and I'm sure it will cost you sooner or later to sit in/on the fan deck). Now I'm happy with sitting in my seat or watching the game from the concourse by our beer guy, so I don't really care about some of that stuff above, but trying to "win" new fans or to get the old ones to come back, they just won't if it's gonna be a hassle all the time and they're not made to feel welcome by the workers there.

Amen Brother.

Iwritecode
03-31-2004, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
Part of it may have to do with the fact that kids need more equipment to play baseball, which costs more money. Take hockey for example--you have to have big bucks to put your kid in a hockey program. Or golf--that's another good example. Not as much equipment is necessarily required for baseball obviously, but you need a modest amount, plus you need enough other kids to play who also have the same equipment. Anyone can pick up a basketball and shoot hoops by themselves on any playground. It is much cheaper, and does not require any organization whatsoever. You can always get a pickup basketball game--can the same be said for baseball? Of course not.

There are under-priviledged kids in some latin countries that play with a tennis ball and a broomstick...

ewokpelts
03-31-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
There are under-priviledged kids in some latin countries that play with a tennis ball and a broomstick...

Kinda like how stickball prevailed in the mid 20th century.
Gene

steff
03-31-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
Tell The Passion of the Pudge I said 'Hi'. She be pretty.


Don't know what you're talking about.. and don't care. But it's not nice to say negative things about people you don't know.

joecrede
03-31-2004, 03:35 PM
I can't believe the amount of whining in this thread.

#1 Sox ushers are no worse than other event ushers.
#2 Sox concession prices are no worse than other team's.
#3 Sox ticket prices are no worse than other team's.

Jerko
03-31-2004, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I can't believe the amount of whining in this thread.

#1 Sox ushers are no worse than other event ushers.
#2 Sox concession prices are no worse than other team's.
#3 Sox ticket prices are no worse than other team's.

I'll give you 2 and 3; you have to expect to shell out 5 beans for a beer and a couple of bucks for a dog, and my weekend seats went up and I still renewed them.

I can't agree with you however on #1. I've seen too many things happen with my own eyes to think that any other ushers are as bad as the ones at the Cell.

mweflen
03-31-2004, 04:27 PM
i agree that complaints on ticket prices and concesions are less valid - but i still maintain that when you're trying to rehabilitate a limping fan base, you need to add value, not price yourself out of your key demographic range.

i also HEARTILY disagree with ushers and security personnel. they truly make it feel like "the Cell." every time i'm hastled for wanting to bring a sealed bottle of water (expressly permitted in the rules, which none of the security seem to know), and every time i'm given grief about the shoulder bag i bring from work, or the backpack i bring on cold dates, i think to myself:

"if only i had been born an ignorant yuppie and become a cubs fan..."

wrigley and the cubs still suck - but they sure are nice to you over there!

joecrede
03-31-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
i agree that complaints on ticket prices and concesions are less valid - but i still maintain that when you're trying to rehabilitate a limping fan base, you need to add value, not price yourself out of your key demographic range.

1/2 price Monday's
1/2 price Tuesday's (w/ Pepsi product)
Fireworks Friday and/or Saturday night's
$1 Kids Day's one Sunday a month
1/2 price for members of the military
1/2 price for seniors during the week
$1 hotdog Thursday's ($2.50 for a Kosher)

That's a ton of value added stuff.

i also HEARTILY disagree with ushers and security personnel. they truly make it feel like "the Cell." every time i'm hastled for wanting to bring a sealed bottle of water (expressly permitted in the rules, which none of the security seem to know), and every time i'm given grief about the shoulder bag i bring from work, or the backpack i bring on cold dates,

Welcome to post 9/11 America.

i think to myself:

"if only i had been born an ignorant yuppie and become a cubs fan..."

wrigley and the cubs still suck - but they sure are nice to you over there!

Wrigley security/ushers are no different. None.

poorme
03-31-2004, 04:51 PM
I kind of like Mike Murphy's idea of just letting in the people in the upper deck for free. I bet they'd make more money on parking, concessions, future ticket sales, etc.

Veeky
03-31-2004, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by steff
Don't know what you're talking about.. and don't care. But it's not nice to say negative things about people you don't know.

Regardless what he told you, Fisk won't play second-fiddle to Ozzie.

He can't even let go the Reindorf grudge, the short-fused egomaniac that he is. What a baby.

But if you say he'll serve in any capacity as long as it's in his favorite organizaton, then I have to defer to your expertise. :smile:

Jerko
03-31-2004, 05:36 PM
I'm not even talking about bottles or backpacks. I am not only talking about the ushers either. I the past 3 years, someone I know or was sitting near has:

Had hot onions thrown on her face and shoulders because the vendor was mad he had to do his job and actually put onions on a hot dog;

Been told to go down a left field ramp after the game was over because "that's how we clear the park fast" instead of being allowed to go back behind the plate to get on the elevators. That may not sound like a big deal to you or me, but this girl is in her mid 20-s and has had 2 hip replacement surgeries and was in a wheel chair at the time; that was real fun rolling her down 16 ramps, not to mention dangerous;

Been told to go outside to use a payphone because the one by the stadium entrance/exit didn't work and then was refused re-entry by the same guard that told him it was ok to go out there in the first place, to the point where I had to go get my ticket agent to let him come back in,

Been thrown out of a game for reaching over the 8 inch wall in left field and picking up a foul ball as a person who actually fell onto the field chasing the same ball was left alone;

Been told DURING the game that the stadium club, which isn't free, was closed and that the elevator on the 100 level was locked, only to be escorted out of the park because other people, not him, were acting rowdy, only to get into the club from the ground floor entrance and have the elevator stop on the 100 level, 3 feet from where he was told the thing didn't work. Now that doesn't sound like a big deal but the guy WAS supposed to meet his ride home up there;

Been locked out of the bathroom right as the game ended because "we didn't sell a lot of tickets in that area" and forced to either "hold it" or piss on a neighboring lawn like a lowly Cub fan;

Been told to leave the park at the exit closest to the highway when his ride was waiting for him on the other side of the park;

It goes on and on. I know none of these events are life threatening, but 1 of them actually caused physical pain and the handicap one was just brutal. There was a group outing that night and you should have seen all the people on crutches trying to get down those ramps. That was inexcusable. I've been to games in Oakland, Detroit, San Franciso, and Los Angeles and I can tell you NOBODY else's workforce is as bad as the one at the Cell.

steff
03-31-2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
Regardless what he told you, Fisk won't play second-fiddle to Ozzie.

He can't even let go the Reindorf grudge, the short-fused egomaniac that he is. What a baby.

But if you say he'll serve in any capacity as long as it's in his favorite organizaton, then I have to defer to your expertise. :smile:



Fisk wont play/work for the Sox..

"Grudge"... let's see your employer fly you somewhere.. fire you.. and tell you to find your own way back home and see how you like it.

And I didn't say he would serve... (boy, you guys were right about this one....). He'll never work for the White Sox as long as JR is around...

You obviously don't know anything about Carlton.. he's miles and miles from being an egomaniac.

joecrede
03-31-2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
I'm not even talking about bottles or backpacks. I am not only talking about the ushers either. I the past 3 years, someone I know or was sitting near has:

Had hot onions thrown on her face and shoulders because the vendor was mad he had to do his job and actually put onions on a hot dog;

Been told to go down a left field ramp after the game was over because "that's how we clear the park fast" instead of being allowed to go back behind the plate to get on the elevators. That may not sound like a big deal to you or me, but this girl is in her mid 20-s and has had 2 hip replacement surgeries and was in a wheel chair at the time; that was real fun rolling her down 16 ramps, not to mention dangerous;

Been told to go outside to use a payphone because the one by the stadium entrance/exit didn't work and then was refused re-entry by the same guard that told him it was ok to go out there in the first place, to the point where I had to go get my ticket agent to let him come back in,

Been thrown out of a game for reaching over the 8 inch wall in left field and picking up a foul ball as a person who actually fell onto the field chasing the same ball was left alone;

Been told DURING the game that the stadium club, which isn't free, was closed and that the elevator on the 100 level was locked, only to be escorted out of the park because other people, not him, were acting rowdy, only to get into the club from the ground floor entrance and have the elevator stop on the 100 level, 3 feet from where he was told the thing didn't work. Now that doesn't sound like a big deal but the guy WAS supposed to meet his ride home up there;

Been locked out of the bathroom right as the game ended because "we didn't sell a lot of tickets in that area" and forced to either "hold it" or piss on a neighboring lawn like a lowly Cub fan;

Been told to leave the park at the exit closest to the highway when his ride was waiting for him on the other side of the park;

It goes on and on. I know none of these events are life threatening, but 1 of them actually caused physical pain and the handicap one was just brutal. There was a group outing that night and you should have seen all the people on crutches trying to get down those ramps. That was inexcusable. I've been to games in Oakland, Detroit, San Franciso, and Los Angeles and I can tell you NOBODY else's workforce is as bad as the one at the Cell.

Have you reported any/all of these instances to customer service (located behind home plate on the lower level)?

Veeky
03-31-2004, 05:54 PM
There was a group outing that night and you should have seen all the people on crutches trying to get down those ramps

Damn :angry:

voodoochile
03-31-2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
I'm not even talking about bottles or backpacks. I am not only talking about the ushers either. I the past 3 years, someone I know or was sitting near has:

Had hot onions thrown on her face and shoulders because the vendor was mad he had to do his job and actually put onions on a hot dog;

Been told to go down a left field ramp after the game was over because "that's how we clear the park fast" instead of being allowed to go back behind the plate to get on the elevators. That may not sound like a big deal to you or me, but this girl is in her mid 20-s and has had 2 hip replacement surgeries and was in a wheel chair at the time; that was real fun rolling her down 16 ramps, not to mention dangerous;

Been told to go outside to use a payphone because the one by the stadium entrance/exit didn't work and then was refused re-entry by the same guard that told him it was ok to go out there in the first place, to the point where I had to go get my ticket agent to let him come back in,

Been thrown out of a game for reaching over the 8 inch wall in left field and picking up a foul ball as a person who actually fell onto the field chasing the same ball was left alone;

Been told DURING the game that the stadium club, which isn't free, was closed and that the elevator on the 100 level was locked, only to be escorted out of the park because other people, not him, were acting rowdy, only to get into the club from the ground floor entrance and have the elevator stop on the 100 level, 3 feet from where he was told the thing didn't work. Now that doesn't sound like a big deal but the guy WAS supposed to meet his ride home up there;

Been locked out of the bathroom right as the game ended because "we didn't sell a lot of tickets in that area" and forced to either "hold it" or piss on a neighboring lawn like a lowly Cub fan;

Been told to leave the park at the exit closest to the highway when his ride was waiting for him on the other side of the park;

It goes on and on. I know none of these events are life threatening, but 1 of them actually caused physical pain and the handicap one was just brutal. There was a group outing that night and you should have seen all the people on crutches trying to get down those ramps. That was inexcusable. I've been to games in Oakland, Detroit, San Franciso, and Los Angeles and I can tell you NOBODY else's workforce is as bad as the one at the Cell.

You need to tell someone about the incident with the wheelchair. I am sure the Sox don't want that to happen. FYI, If forced to do this again, turn around and walk the chair backwards. It is the safest and surest way to take a wheelchair down a hill/stairs/etc. Hard on you, but much, much safer.

I would think the Sox would be interested in hearing about all of these incidents. Remember, they cannot be everywhere all the time. If you allow yourself to be abused and don't tell anyone you were abused, then you do no one any good and allow the abuse to continue. Get usher names. Get security names. Get times and dates and then contact the Sox or your season ticket rep. The only way to improve customer relations is to make sure someone knows about the problem areas.

The Hotdog vendor should be fired. I can't even imagine if your friend had gotten a burn and scar on their face from a sizzling onion. That would have cost a bunch of people a pretty penny...

Veeky
03-31-2004, 05:59 PM
Fisk wont play/work for the Sox..

No kidding. His ego won't allow it. Oh well, as they say.

The end.

steff
03-31-2004, 05:59 PM
Jerko... your post, literally, just made me sick. Unfortunately there are some ******* vendors and rent a cops (sorry Killa) there. But you really should have (and should still) tell the Sox about this. And if any thing like the wheelchair think happens again... tell whomever to eff off and wheel right past him. Let him call back up on you and see who gets their little hiney fired...

mweflen
03-31-2004, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
1/2 price Monday's
1/2 price Tuesday's (w/ Pepsi product)
Fireworks Friday and/or Saturday night's
$1 Kids Day's one Sunday a month
1/2 price for members of the military
1/2 price for seniors during the week
$1 hotdog Thursday's ($2.50 for a Kosher)

That's a ton of value added stuff.


yes, but they've also increased ticket prices on every section, increased them further for weekend dates (when families are more likely to attend) and tacked on another $5 for Cubs dates.

So the added value is a wash.

Why not $1 kids EVERY sunday?

What about wednesday for a half price promotion? Thursday? Those are the worst attended dates by far, I know, having gone to 30+ games a year (mostly weeknights) for the past 4 years...

Come on... $24 dollars for "Uper Deck Premium" seats? $28 on a weekend? $33 for the cubs sox game? You'd think you were sitting lower deck, shielded from the rain at least...

$45 for a 300 level seat?

$26 for BLEACHERS??????!?!?!

$16 for a nosebleed with a PILLAR in your face?

You'd think we had ALREADY won the world series in the past 87 years...

These prices fall in line with the "if you turn out, THEN we'll invest in talent" philosophy espoused by JR/KW...



Wrigley security/ushers are no different. None.

wrong, wrong, WRONG. anyone who's gone to both parks can tell you differently.

look, I am a die hard Sox fan, and hate the Cubs with passion. PASSION. But I go to 4 or 5 cubs games a year (3 against the Sox, 2 usually against the Astros and Brewers to root against the flubbies), and each and every time, an usher has gone out of his/her way to say hello, be nice, and I have NEVER been hassled about a backpack, water bottle, umbrella, nothing.

meanwhile, I go to 30+ games at Comiskey. and I would estimate, conservatively, that 20 of these dates do not pass without some sort of aggravation from usher/security staff.

I can only base an opinion on mounds of personal experience. and that experience tells me that the customer service experience at Comiskey is CRAP. it's no wonder people don't leave the park saying "gee, I want to come back."

steff
03-31-2004, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
No kidding. His ego won't allow it. Oh well, as they say.

The end.


One more time.. and a wee bit slower... Carlton won't work for a jag bag that treated him like ****. And rightfully so. Carlton has done MANY favors for MLB, but NOT benifiting the Sox - coaching the Future's game this past July for starters.

Carlton has a great relationship with many folks still employeed in the offices at Comiskey Park and has been there many times. But why on Earth would he work for someone who disrespected him in such a way. If you call that an egomaniac... that says a lot about the kind of person you are.

Jerko
03-31-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Have you reported any/all of these instances to customer service (located behind home plate on the lower level)?

Yes we did, many times and through many outlets. The worst one obviously, the wheelchair one, happened in the 2002 season. Our section is sometimes used for group outings and there was a group from some hospice or somewhere for physically and mentally impaired people. One poor guy was actually afraid of the fireworks and the girl in charge of the group had her hands full trying to calm him down on top of everything else. My friends and myself vehemently complained THAT NIGHT to the ushers to let them use the elevators, and one of them had the unmitigated gall to actually tell me"they could take the ramp; it's not like we're making them walk down stairs or anything". NOW when my friend's sister comes with us (the girl with the 2 artificial hips) they are very accomodating; but nothing could make me forget that night. Nothing. The hot onions was last season; and the getting shooed out of the park walking from left to right to get to ramp 2 for some postgame fun only ended because they stopped blocking seats off for the firework shows.

Jerko
03-31-2004, 07:49 PM
Sorry for all the details; I really didn't want to get into it here; I know some of the guys that work there and they're not all bad. I just wanted to make a point that maybe if the people that DO show up on half price nights or firework nights were treated better; they would show up more often than just on half price nights and fireworks nights. Yes I have written letters and complained about these events with some results, but it shouldn't have to come to that. Now I've been a fan for years and it will take more than that to get me to boycott; but I can see a normal person not wanting to go there after seeing something like that. Even the bathrooms being locked was brutal. I didn't have to "go" that night and I live close enough to be able to "hold it", but seeing a guy pissing in every corner of every ramp on the way out of the park is pretty disgusting. Nice place to bring a kid, date, or business associate. And I LIKE the place and I get this mad. I can see why a lot of people don't show up unless there's a promotion or a discount.

Rex Hudler
03-31-2004, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by poorme
I kind of like Mike Murphy's idea of just letting in the people in the upper deck for free. I bet they'd make more money on parking, concessions, future ticket sales, etc.

That would be a terrible idea and it will never happen. Once you begin to give your product away, it loses all perceived value. In the long run less fans would attend unless it was for free, driving down attendance and ticket revenue.

On top of that, those that come for free, spend less money on food, souvenirs, etc. than do those that pay full price.

Jerko
03-31-2004, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
That would be a terrible idea and it will never happen. Once you begin to give your product away, it loses all perceived value. In the long run less fans would attend unless it was for free, driving down attendance and ticket revenue.

On top of that, those that come for free, spend less money on food, souvenirs, etc. than do those that pay full price.

Or worse; they come for free, drink 100 beers because they saved 15 bucks and think they're rich, and either start fights in the stands or on the field.

poorme
03-31-2004, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Once you begin to give your product away, it loses all perceived value. In the long run less fans would attend unless it was for free, driving down attendance and ticket revenue.

On top of that, those that come for free, spend less money on food, souvenirs, etc. than do those that pay full price.


You sound like Bill Wirtz.

We need to start up ON-TV again.

mweflen
04-01-2004, 12:26 AM
no, the games should definitely not be free. but there needs to be a value section, which many clubs have.

$16 for an obstructed seat in the upper deck is just not a value, i don't care how nice the new roof is. and bleachers over $20 is just obscene. you're sitting on a metal bench, for cripes sake.

these types of tickets need to be ten bucks or less, and the usher-gestapo needs to not hassle you if you want to impromptu 'upgrade' your seat on a half-attended night (i.e. 70 percent of games).

people would actually sit in the uper deck if the tix were $8-$10. and on weekdays, i think it would build a lot of goodwill if they made the upper deck $5 even.

fuzzy_patters
04-01-2004, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Frankfan4life


(1) That instead of singing "Take me out to the ballgame" during the 7th inning stretch, we sing the "Na Na Hey Hey" song (the "real" version not the NF organ version). Let's face it, the Cubs took that song and made it a successful part of their tradition by getting celebrities to sing it and quite frankly, I kind of hate the song now. We need to create our own tradition.



The son "Na Na Hey Hey" isn't baseball related in its original form, though. What if they were to sing "Go Go White Sox" during the seventh inning stretch? That would be pretty cool.

Rex Hudler
04-01-2004, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by mweflen
no, the games should definitely not be free. but there needs to be a value section, which many clubs have.

$16 for an obstructed seat in the upper deck is just not a value, i don't care how nice the new roof is. and bleachers over $20 is just obscene. you're sitting on a metal bench, for cripes sake.

these types of tickets need to be ten bucks or less, and the usher-gestapo needs to not hassle you if you want to impromptu 'upgrade' your seat on a half-attended night (i.e. 70 percent of games).

people would actually sit in the uper deck if the tix were $8-$10. and on weekdays, i think it would build a lot of goodwill if they made the upper deck $5 even.

Like I said, they need to figure out how to sell out the lower level first. The upper deck will take care of itself once demand is created from the lower deck being full.

I know you can't roll ticket prices back (this isn't Wal-mart) which is why I suggested guaranteeing fans that prices will be frozen for the next two years. The half-price nights help accomplish the balance between offering value and making sure the product does not lose perceived value.

Increasing attendance will only be an overnight fix if the Sox are a threat to win the WS. Even if that happens, they will not retain that level without making some changes to their current operation. It will take a long-term commitment to the fans. That commitment needs to include a customer service overhaul from what it sounds like from everyone here.

Rex Hudler
04-01-2004, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by poorme
You sound like Bill Wirtz.

We need to start up ON-TV again.

I am not sure if that is a complement or if you don't agree with my assessment. If it is the latter, I am curious as to where and why you think the statement is wrong.

blueeyes33
04-01-2004, 01:31 AM
i love at cub /sox games tho you hear people fighting over " root root root for the white sox ( cubbies )"

haha

chisoxmike
04-01-2004, 01:37 AM
Here's a idea....


WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN

Jesus, just give us a division title or something!!!!! Then build on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

beckett21
04-01-2004, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
There are under-priviledged kids in some latin countries that play with a tennis ball and a broomstick...

True. I can't argue with that. And Sammy Sosa used a milk carton for a glove. I know. Let me expand on my point...

Latin countries they play soccer (futbol) and beisbol. Not basketball or *Football* as we know it. So the players they idolize play baseball and soccer. They take pride in their baseball tradition, and for their kids baseball is a way out of poverty. Basketball is just now catching on, and while it may be having some impact baseball still rules Latin America as far as that goes.

What about the inner city/impoverished areas of this country?

In this country, you have the LeBron James phenomenon where an 18 year old kid who has never played a minute of ball outside of a high school game gets a guaranteed $90 mil. endorsement deal. That's not even his salary. Not to diss LeBron because he could actually come close to living up to the impossible hype, but come on now. He is the poster boy for this argument. All this for shooting and passing a basketball, a skill any kid can hone on his own. Baseball is a much harder sport to master IMO, and while I am not discounting coaching in basketball, I feel it is much more critical in baseball. Natural talent is natural talent, any way you slice it. But if you are an inner-city kid, and you see sports as your way out, which one are you going to pursue? You don't see 18 year old baseball players getting $90 mil endorsement deals (thank goodness). Albert Pujols just signed for $100 mil for 7 years, and he is arguably one of the top 5 players in the game. Of course it is all monopoly money anyway, obscene in fact. I'm not saying there is no money to be made in baseball because that would be absurd. Payrod comes to mind. But LeBron did nothing as a professional and already had that money as good as in the bank, fresh out of high school thanks to his raw talents and the media hype machine.

Football? By most if not all accounts it has surpassed baseball as America's favorite sport. Baseball is not what it once was in this country, unfortunately. It's a long, hard road to the Major Leagues, and kids today want instant gratification. Baseball is unquestionably my favorite sport and in my heart it always will be. But it is no longer #1 to the youth of today, as much as it pains me to say it. Forget the equipment, it goes way beyond that. The interest and desire are not there like they used to be.

(Sorry, feeling very long-winded tonight...it was a long day! :D: )

thepaulbowski
04-01-2004, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Sorry for all the details; I really didn't want to get into it here; I know some of the guys that work there and they're not all bad. I just wanted to make a point that maybe if the people that DO show up on half price nights or firework nights were treated better; they would show up more often than just on half price nights and fireworks nights. Yes I have written letters and complained about these events with some results, but it shouldn't have to come to that. Now I've been a fan for years and it will take more than that to get me to boycott; but I can see a normal person not wanting to go there after seeing something like that. Even the bathrooms being locked was brutal. I didn't have to "go" that night and I live close enough to be able to "hold it", but seeing a guy pissing in every corner of every ramp on the way out of the park is pretty disgusting. Nice place to bring a kid, date, or business associate. And I LIKE the place and I get this mad. I can see why a lot of people don't show up unless there's a promotion or a discount.

I think the point your driving home is, as a whole, there are many customer service problems at the park. If things like happen to the average fan, they may never come back. But, unfortunately, you and I are a Sox fans and have to come back. Having things like this become common occurance is not good for busines, especially when business isn't that good to begin. My home town newspaper (Elkhart Truth) had an article written it by a guy who brought his kids to a game last year. Some of the points he mentioned were more cry-baby like, but he did have a few valid points. And the valed points were how rude the ticket window people, vendors & ushers could be. The Sox need to remind their employees who they work for. Without customers they don't have jobs.

voodoochile
04-01-2004, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
The son "Na Na Hey Hey" isn't baseball related in its original form, though. What if they were to sing "Go Go White Sox" during the seventh inning stretch? That would be pretty cool.

Yeah, I can imagine the confused looks on people's faces when that happened...

Mickster
04-01-2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by poorme
We need to start up ON-TV again.

Actually, we are. Come October 2004. ON-TV isn't much different than what the Cubs, Sox, Bulls and Hawks are doing at the end of the season. No different than the Yankee's YES network or MSG Network... Einhorn's idea wasn't all that bad, just wasn't the right time for it...

poorme
04-01-2004, 11:45 AM
Cool. I think my dad still has the box somewhere down in the cellar.

Frankfan4life
04-01-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
The son "Na Na Hey Hey" isn't baseball related in its original form, though. What if they were to sing "Go Go White Sox" during the seventh inning stretch? That would be pretty cool.

You're right, Na Na Hey Hey is not a baseball song but it has a catchy tune and it's nice to dance to (I give it a 78 Dick). However, I'd take Go Go White Sox or just about anything else besides Take me out the Ballgame.

Right now anything unique stands out. The media is looking for any little thing that is different in order to make it a news story. We NEED national media attention. That is what attracts fans. The Cubs marketing dept. knows that all too well. Why don't we try something different for a change, what do we have to lose?

joecrede
04-01-2004, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
these types of tickets need to be ten bucks or less, and the usher-gestapo needs to not hassle you if you want to impromptu 'upgrade' your seat on a half-attended night (i.e. 70 percent of games).

Why not just pay for the seat you want to sit in?

people would actually sit in the uper deck if the tix
were $8-$10.

Think people would sit in them @ $12 on weekdays?

OurBitchinMinny
04-01-2004, 09:42 PM
The #1 thing is to either have JR sell or die (Id rather he sell because I cant even wish death on him and plus a reinsdorf would probably inherit the team) and winning solves all

mweflen
04-01-2004, 11:28 PM
there are just so many negative things working right now to impact attendance. (JR, post-strike, white flag, negative park perception, lackluster neighborhood, fading teams, priced over demographic) None of these things can be fixed easily or quickly, save one - ticket prices. So when you talk about increasing attendance, you have to start there first of all.

steff
04-02-2004, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
Why not just pay for the seat you want to sit in?




Thank you!!!

Don't STEAL what I paid for!!!

thepaulbowski
04-02-2004, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by mweflen
there are just so many negative things working right now to impact attendance. (JR, post-strike, white flag, negative park perception, lackluster neighborhood, fading teams, priced over demographic) None of these things can be fixed easily or quickly, save one - ticket prices. So when you talk about increasing attendance, you have to start there first of all.

Half price Monday, Half priced Pepsi Tuesday, Kids day with tickets for a buck. C'mon....ticket prices aren't the problem. They have plenty of other problems, but tickets prices just aren't it.

Rex Hudler
04-02-2004, 08:35 PM
Why not just pay for the seat you want to sit in?

Originally posted by steff
Thank you!!!

Don't STEAL what I paid for!!!

It's a novel concept Steff. One some people don't seem to get. The if no one is sitting in it, why can't I have it/something for nothing mentality.....

mweflen
04-02-2004, 08:45 PM
I don't think it's so evil to go camp out in an empty seat.

First of all, I'm not talking about waltzing in, first inning, and saying "gee, i'd rather have that seat."

I'm talking about sitting in your ticketed seat, watching a big mass of blue seats for 3 or 4 innings, and deciding "you know what, those people aren't showing. i'd like to try that view out."

Second, my idea of 'good seats' is probably not the same as some others. When I scope out seats in the LD, I look in the rows behind the home plate screen, rows 25-30 (deserted 80% of the time). I like sitting further up in the lower deck, because i feel it gives a better overall view of the field and developing plays. I don't really like sitting in the first 10 rows.

Also, I frequently vamoose to the upper deck and sit in the first 7 or 8 rows of 533-535. I do this when I'm feeling too crowded in the LD, and I want to put my feet up.

Are these kinds of "stealing" so wrong? Be prissy and moralistic if you want, but I say, if no one's sitting in it (and you've verified this by scoping it out for 2 or 3 innings), it's fair game.

I've got 30 sets of tickets this year. half are in 121 row 21 (weekdays, I doubt I'll be scoping replacements for these) and half are in 150 row 8 (weekends, I may want to move because of hot sun or kinked neck). I'm not a "Thief" who wants something he hasn't paid for. These tickets are the two most expensive sections of the lower deck.

On a night with half attendence (i.e. nearly every night), anyone who wants to deny me the ability to switch UNOCCUPIED seats so that I might increase my comfort or enjoyment can kiss my pale white hiney.

Steff - If ever I'm in your seat, you can be assured that I'll gladly leave, with a smile on my face. But then, why did you show up so late? I never switch until the 3rd or 4th.

mweflen
04-02-2004, 08:55 PM
Which is not even to mention nights where I want to move from my seat because of rowdiness, swearing, tobacco spitting, or any other number of disgusting or revolting habits/activities.

I'm getting my dander up, now. It really ticks me off to not be able to move to an unoccupied seat if it offers a better experience.

Sox ushers and security personnel should not hassle law-abiding ticket holders. They should hassle the problem patrons that make law abiding ticketholders want to move, or worse, never come back.

:angry:

mweflen
04-02-2004, 09:03 PM
Okay, dander receding...

Steff, Rex, I certainly see your point. There have been perhaps one or two occasions where someone has been sitting in my seat. Irksome? Perhaps. But they promptly moved when I asked them to, doing the good old "examine your ticket as if you're reading Swahili and go 'hmmmm' " routine...

I think the key is to always be pleasant, to live and let live. If someone is sitting in a seat that is truly unoccupied, and isn't swearing/crowding/sprawling/belching/spitting/fighting with anyone else, why get your panties in a twist?

Low attendance is bad for revenues, but it is good in some ways for fans like me. I'm a serious baseball fan. I keep score, I read all the news stories, I can explain the infield fly rule to a friend in a pinch. Sometimes, I don't want someone's huge head blocking my view, or I don't want to listen to some person's loud and annoying cellphone conversation about their goiter/ex-wife/failed business venture.

So I scope out seats that have a "blue buffer" around them, 2 or 3 seats on either side, no one in front, and I NEVER EVER camp in a seat in FRONT of someone else, especially children whose views I might block.

I think we all need to take a deep breath, and expel a benevolent sigh of love towards all our fellow Sox fans.

:)

So there. No more on the subject, unless someone else calls me a thief. :D:

joecrede
04-02-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
So there. No more on the subject, unless someone else calls me a thief. :D:

Your apparent sense of entitlement is astounding.

WinningUgly!
04-02-2004, 11:15 PM
:tomatoaward

Ha! Had to sneak that in!

mweflen
04-02-2004, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Your apparent sense of entitlement is astounding.


I'm a working stiff who pays his dues and tries to get a little enjoyment out of life.

your apparent sense of moral superiority astounds ME.

If you're sitting in an otherwise unoccupied seat, not bothering anyone, not blocking anyone's view, just watching the game that you paid too much for in the first place, you should be LEFT ALONE.

mweflen
04-02-2004, 11:30 PM
The title of this thread is "Way to improve attendance at Sox Park."

I think it's a perfectly valid observation and opinion that harrassing people who innocuously move to a better seat is a customer-unfriendly practice.

Certainly, if they're TAKING SOMEONE ELSE'S SEAT, they should be asked to move, and they should move with no qualms.

If expressing differing opinions is going to be judged so harshly, then I don't know what I'm doing here on an opinion forum.

:?:

Daver
04-02-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
hey "joecrede", bite me.

I'm a working stiff who pays his dues and tries to get a little enjoyment out of life.

your apparent sense of moral superiority astounds ME.

If you're sitting in an otherwise unoccupied seat, not bothering anyone, not blocking anyone's view, just watching the game that you paid too much for in the first place, you should be LEFT ALONE.

Your being a working stiff does not give you the right to hurl insults here.

Daver
04-02-2004, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by mweflen

If expressing differing opinions is going to be judged so harshly, then I don't know what I'm doing here on an opinion forum.

:?:

You are not really expressing a differing opinion,you are stating that you feel that you should have the right to steal something you did not pay for,and when you get right down to the legalities,it would be theft.

Plain and simple,if you want better seats,pay for them.

Rex Hudler
04-02-2004, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
The title of this thread is "Way to improve attendance at Sox Park."

I think it's a perfectly valid observation and opinion that harrassing people who innocuously move to a better seat is a customer-unfriendly practice.

Certainly, if they're TAKING SOMEONE ELSE'S SEAT, they should be asked to move, and they should move with no qualms.

If expressing differing opinions is going to be judged so harshly, then I don't know what I'm doing here on an opinion forum.

:?:

Whether someone is sitting in the seat or not is not the point. Teams have different seating structures for a reason. If you want the better seat, pay for it. Or at least don't complain when the club doesn't spend more money on player payroll.

You don't get to just waltz up to first class on an airplane because they didn't sell a seat.

Another problem is when people scout out empty seats and then go sit by others who paid full price. It would piss me off if I paid full price, knowing someone next to me is "cutting in line" so to speak. Especially when they are loud and obnoxious, which often happens.

I am not saying that you are an ass if you do it once here or there. But understand there are reasons those ushers are told to keep you out of those seats. It makes no sense for a club to condone allowing someone to pay for a "generic" product only to take home "name brand". It makes no sense for a club for a club to allow people to move into seats next to others that paid full price, resulting in unhappy season ticket holders, who are the ones full price.

It's not just a matter of an empty seat, so sit in it.

mweflen
04-02-2004, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by Daver
You are not really expressing a differing opinion,you are stating that you feel that you should have the right to steal something you did not pay for,and when you get right down to the legalities,it would be theft.

Plain and simple,if you want better seats,pay for them.

so my opinion is not actually an "opinion"? You're losing me here.

so I consulted Miriam-Webster Online...
--------
Main Entry: opin∑ion
Pronunciation: &-'pin-y&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
-------
Main Entry: 1feel∑ing
Pronunciation: 'fE-li[ng]
Function: noun
2 a : an emotional state or reaction <had a kindly feeling toward the child> b plural : susceptibility to impression : SENSITIVITY <the remark hurt her feelings>
3 a : the undifferentiated background of one's awareness considered apart from any identifiable sensation, perception, or thought b : the overall quality of one's awareness c : conscious recognition : SENSE
4 a : often unreasoned opinion or belief : SENTIMENT b : PRESENTIMENT
------------


Yep, pretty sure I expressed an opinion, not a feeling. Whether you disagree with the reasoning is another matter.

mweflen
04-03-2004, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Whether someone is sitting in the seat or not is not the point. Teams have different seating structures for a reason. If you want the better seat, pay for it. Or at least don't complain when the club doesn't spend more money on player payroll.

You don't get to just waltz up to first class on an airplane because they didn't sell a seat.

Another problem is when people scout out empty seats and then go sit by others who paid full price. It would piss me off if I paid full price, knowing someone next to me is "cutting in line" so to speak. Especially when they are loud and obnoxious, which often happens.

I am not saying that you are an ass if you do it once here or there. But understand there are reasons those ushers are told to keep you out of those seats. It makes no sense for a club to condone allowing someone to pay for a "generic" product only to take home "name brand". It makes no sense for a club for a club to allow people to move into seats next to others that paid full price, resulting in unhappy season ticket holders, who are the ones full price.

It's not just a matter of an empty seat, so sit in it.

the analogy of first class to coach is not apt. I never move from a less expensive section to a more expensive section. I think that should be clear from my previous posts. I simply sometimes wish to move WITHIN my section so that I might get away from annoying patrons and watch the game. If I ever move to a different section, it's generally 533, so that I can really get away from the crowd.

So... is camping in a 533 seat when I paid for a 151 seat stealing, or giving the White Sox a refund?

mweflen
04-03-2004, 12:08 AM
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/neel/030910.html



5. Ticket upgrades. Say I buy a nosebleeder but in the third inning I see one down close that's empty -- let me buy it for a little extra. You get something for what would otherwise be an empty seat; I get that bargain-hunter euphoria that about doubles my enjoyment of the game and absolutely guarantees I'm coming back. Try this, or you know, if you're the Yanks, just keep trying to scare the bejeezus out of me with ushers who work the joint like federal agents, cuz you're the Yankees, right, and you can do whatever you want, right?


Here's Eric Neel's Opinion/Feeling about 'ticket upgrades.'

I agree with him, and would be willing to pay an 'upgrade fee' if I had actually moved to a higher priced section.

However, if I am moving within the same section and not bothering anyone, my opinion/feeling still remains the same: what's so wrong with that?

Rex Hudler
04-03-2004, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by mweflen
the analogy of first class to coach is not apt. I never move from a less expensive section to a more expensive section. I think that should be clear from my previous posts. I simply sometimes with to move WITHIN my section so that I might gat away from annoying patrons and watch the game. If I ever move to a different section, it's generally 533, so that I can really get away from the crowd.

So... is camping in a 533 seat when I paid for a 151 seat stealing, or giving the White Sox a refund?

In that case, it is understandable. But think about an usher's job, before you take issue with them. Most people aren't doing what you are doing. Most are trying to buy cheaper tickets and move down. If an usher allows you to move and someone sees you do it, how can that usher then stop them? If an usher is trying to explain to someone that it is okay for you to move, but they cannot, no matter how legit the reason is, they won't be right in the eyes of the other fan. It puts the usher in a tough position. Especially if the fan they are saying no to has had a few drinks or is difficult.

I'm not saying exceptions will, nor should ever be made, but just understand the overall dynamics of the situation. The ushers are in essence protecting the integrity of the Sox ticket pricing structure and the experience of the fans who have paid for those seats.

mweflen
04-03-2004, 12:11 AM
also: is it "stealing" if you move to the shade when it's a 90 degree day?

is it stealing when you move under the overhang during a rain delay, and then stay there?

I have done both of these things, and not felt even one brief pang of conscience.

I guess my opinion/feeling on the matter is that if you're not hurting anyone else's enjoyment (i.e. blocking their view, yelling in their ear, starting fights, being drunken and disorderly), people ought to live and let live.

joecrede
04-03-2004, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by mweflen
I'm a working stiff who pays his dues and tries to get a little enjoyment out of life.

your apparent sense of moral superiority astounds ME.

If you're sitting in an otherwise unoccupied seat, not bothering anyone, not blocking anyone's view, just watching the game that you paid too much for in the first place, you should be LEFT ALONE.

Anything can be rationalized.

mweflen
04-03-2004, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
Anything can be rationalized.

darn tootin' :smile: especially the small, forgivable stuff.

TornLabrum
04-03-2004, 07:10 AM
What seems to be missing at this point is the main reason the Sox started cracking down on the "Comiskey Upgrade." Do the names Legue and Dybas mean anything to you? I know for sure that Dybas upgraded his seats, and I'm reasonably certain that Ligue did, too.

voodoochile
04-03-2004, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by mweflen
darn tootin' :smile: especially the small, forgivable stuff.

I'm with you. I never did understand the moral outrage on this topic. It's almost a time honored tradition at ANY sporting event for people to try and do the "upgrade".

But, I do understand the Sox policy which as TL pointed out is for security reasons.

Harry Chappas Jr
04-03-2004, 09:25 AM
I think the hard-core Sox fans are going to the games. It's the "bandwagon" fans who aren't showing up. Or, maybe there aren't any. The Sox have as many, if not more, "true" fans as the Cubs, but Wrigley draws more people because of the "Bandwagon Factor." If JR & Kenny want higher attendance, they need to give the "bandwagon" fans a reason to show up. If management wants to attract more "bandwagon" fans, maybe they should whine more about being "cursed" or parade a goat around "the Cell" or blow up a perfectly good baseball just to attract attention. Apparently, it's these innovative marketing schemes that bring in the "Bandwagon Factor" or as I call them, the "Lunatic Fringe."

DumpJerry
04-03-2004, 10:18 AM
Hold a periodic special promotion: Drag Jerry Behind a Truck Night. Use a Ford F-350 and let the most pissed off fan drive it around the corners of the field............. :D:

MUsoxfan
04-04-2004, 04:40 AM
I personally pride myself in being able to sneak down to better seats than the ones I have purchased. I'm happy when I'm sitting as close to home plate as humanly possible. I don't find it stealing since they were nobody's seats to begin with. I'm not one of those guys that buys Upper Deck Reserved and sneaks all the way down. I always buy best available. But if I can get closer to the action than I already am without infringing on anybody else's seat, I don't see what the problem is. I do it not only at Comiskey, but any event I go to. If the ushers ask me any questions, I don't confront them, I just move on. I have always done this and will continue to do this.

steff
04-04-2004, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by mweflen
Steff - If ever I'm in your seat, you can be assured that I'll gladly leave, with a smile on my face. But then, why did you show up so late? I never switch until the 3rd or 4th.


I've NEVER shown up so late and yet have found folks in my seats - and they have the gall to be irritated when I ask them to move. Part of the reason UD folks can't come down is due to the "stealing" of LD seats... If they have to stay put, then why not everyone else, too.

voodoochile
04-04-2004, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by steff
I've NEVER shown up so late and yet have found folks in my seats - and they have the gall to be irritated when I ask them to move. Part of the reason UD folks can't come down is due to the "stealing" of LD seats... If they have to stay put, then why not everyone else, too.

Don't kid yourself, Steff. The Sox never would have changed that policy if the two attacks hadn't happened.

It isn't about the "upgrade" it was about security - or so they claimed. It works well as a marketing tool though, because now the LD is routinely much fuller with full paying customers and the UD actually has people in it - which not only looks better on TV, but in the long run will lead to better publicity for the UD which is not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be.

joecrede
04-04-2004, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Don't kid yourself, Steff. The Sox never would have changed that policy if the two attacks hadn't happened.

It isn't about the "upgrade" it was about security - or so they claimed. It works well as a marketing tool though, because now the LD is routinely much fuller with full paying customers and the UD actually has people in it - which not only looks better on TV, but in the long run will lead to better publicity for the UD which is not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be.

The reason why the upgrade policy had been relaxed in recent years is because the Sox took a beating when mopes would call North's show and complain about the overbearing security not allowing them to sit in a seat that was unoccupied. North, everyday guy that he is, would agree with the caller and go on a rant about how bad it is "over there."

It's terrible marketing to upset your best customers (season-ticket holders) by allowing the "upgrade" policy and the Sox know it, but in their defense it was a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation because of the bile that would spew from North. I say was because the attacks have given them a legit reason to reinforce the no "upgrade" policy without backlash from the knuckleheads that listen to and call North.

Another thing, everyone talks about how obtrusive Sox security is ... with the type of crowd that often frequents the Cell, I don't think they are tough enough.

Dubman
04-04-2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by bigbohock
Here are some ways I think the White Sox could improve attendence:

1.) Bring back the 1983 uniforms.

No. Never. Worst unis in the history of the game. I don't care how popular they are now they it's a passing fad.

2.) Stop raising prices.

I agree . Also fans should take advantage 1/2 off promotions and other offers to make it more affordable.

3.) A more aggressive ad campaign.

Winning is the best and only promotion that will increase the Sox stagnant fan base.

4.) Buy one hot dog/ polish get the other one free. Why not?

We already have a low number of fans and now you want us to die young. No

5.) Bring Carlton Fisk back to the White Sox in some capacity

This should be #1

6.) Show Highlights of 1959, 1983, 1993, and 2000 on the scoreboard.

Through out each game maybe they can highlight a successful Sox season from April through October. Show all the exciting plays to bring back memories. It would beat those silly races.

7.) Bring back the centerfield shower

Install a dunk tank also. When Cub fans visting the Cell become boorish security can take them to the dunk tank and for a nominal fee Sox fans can try to dunk them. I would't have a protection fence either, if somebody wanted to throw a little chin music at the guy with the 'We got Wood" shirt on, so be it.

8.) Let Minnie Minoso play a game.

You mean he didn't for the Sox last year? I could have sworn I seen him ..never mind.

9.) Bring back McCuddy's Tavern.

It is on the drawing board. It's only in its thirteenth year of a five year plan so it has a ways to go.

10.) Have a return of some of Bill Veeck's crazy promotions, with the exception being Disco Demolition

How about Hip-Hop demolition?

SoxFan76
04-04-2004, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Dubman
How about Hip-Hop demolition?

I'm all for that.

bouldersox
04-05-2004, 10:23 AM
We're all Sox fans here, of course our take on improving attendance is field a winning team.

but take it from me, i live in boulder and while attendance at rockies games continues to decline, they still average over 30k a game. would sox fans apply more pressure to jr if attendance went up by 8k a game? you bet we could.

improve promotions like fireworks and elvis nights. take a look at the numbers. those are the nights when attendance goes up! put a playground out on the concourse in center field, it will pay out in spades with young families. drop beer prices on some nights (sponsored by the brewries of course). i like the earlier idea of by one dog or polish and get the second one free.

reach out to businesses. sox could provide free shuttles from the loop to downtown buildings that return them back after the game. The buses could be specially marked and cruise downtown between 5:00 and gametime.

The same could be said for taverns downtown. shuttles to and from resturants and larger bars before and after games.

more giveaways. helmets, bats, mitts, gloves - you name it. give it away.

of course revert the neighborhood back to a neighborhood is probably beyond reach, but it was one of the ideas floated around here regarding what to do with the money we got from selling the naming rights to comiskey. i'd be asking ol' jr for an accounting of that (and don't fall for the renovations line).

get me a job in the promotions dept at the sox office, and i'll move back to chicago in a heartbeat!

steff
04-05-2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Don't kid yourself, Steff. The Sox never would have changed that policy if the two attacks hadn't happened.

It isn't about the "upgrade" it was about security - or so they claimed. It works well as a marketing tool though, because now the LD is routinely much fuller with full paying customers and the UD actually has people in it - which not only looks better on TV, but in the long run will lead to better publicity for the UD which is not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be.



I was kidding...??? :?:

longwood
04-05-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
I'll give you 2 and 3; you have to expect to shell out 5 beans for a beer and a couple of bucks for a dog, and my weekend seats went up and I still renewed them.

I can't agree with you however on #1. I've seen too many things happen with my own eyes to think that any other ushers are as bad as the ones at the Cell.


I sit in section 124 and have an excellent usher who's a school teacher in the off season (Jennifer). She's also a huge fan and knows her team. However, she's the exception. Ushers that fill in for her when she's not there don't even want to give you the time of day.

longwood
04-05-2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Whether someone is sitting in the seat or not is not the point. Teams have different seating structures for a reason. If you want the better seat, pay for it. Or at least don't complain when the club doesn't spend more money on player payroll.

You don't get to just waltz up to first class on an airplane because they didn't sell a seat.

Another problem is when people scout out empty seats and then go sit by others who paid full price. It would piss me off if I paid full price, knowing someone next to me is "cutting in line" so to speak. Especially when they are loud and obnoxious, which often happens.

I am not saying that you are an ass if you do it once here or there. But understand there are reasons those ushers are told to keep you out of those seats. It makes no sense for a club to condone allowing someone to pay for a "generic" product only to take home "name brand". It makes no sense for a club for a club to allow people to move into seats next to others that paid full price, resulting in unhappy season ticket holders, who are the ones full price.

It's not just a matter of an empty seat, so sit in it.


Ok....just to muddy the waters further.....
What about moving into a seat with the same ticket face value? Up until this year We've had season tickets in the last row (33) of section 124. After the 4-5 inning, I let my kids move down closer to the field as long as they find a seat not next to someone. The people in the 1st row paid the same price for the ticket as I did in the last row.

JC456
04-05-2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I can't believe the amount of whining in this thread.

#1 Sox ushers are no worse than other event ushers.
#2 Sox concession prices are no worse than other team's.
#3 Sox ticket prices are no worse than other team's.

How many other parks won't let fans with seats in the upper deck down to the main concourse to browse the neatest part of the park?

Public relations with this fanchise has been in the toilet since at least '96. Just wait in line for food. Gaurateed you miss at least one inning waiting to order a fry or two. Customer skills is lacking at the park. And I 'm sorry, if you go to other parks it is quite different.

steff
04-05-2004, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by JC456
How many other parks won't let fans with seats in the upper deck down to the main concourse to browse the neatest part of the park?

Public relations with this fanchise has been in the toilet since at least '96. Just wait in line for food. Gaurateed you miss at least one inning waiting to order a fry or two. Customer skills is lacking at the park. And I 'm sorry, if you go to other parks it is quite different.



That I know of for sure...

Cleveland, Arlington, Yankee Stadium, Houston, and Baltimore (unless they changed it since 2001).

And just a little hint.. next time you are in line for food or drinks.. look up or turn your head.. there are TV's all over the friggin concourses.

CubKiller5
04-05-2004, 02:14 PM
It's time some of you face the facts:
1) The avg income of residents around SOX park are much lower than the avg income of residents around Wrig.

2) The SOX can not draw on the field product alone.

3) The best analogy for the SOX these days is that of the Chicago Wolves to the Chicago Blackhawks. Normally, the SOX offer a better product at a lower price. But when the sCrubs decide to spend like they have this year .. look out.

4) It's MUCH easier for patrons with $$$'s to get to Wrig than to SOX park.

That being said, here's what needs to be done to address these problems:
1) Make it easier for patrons with $'s to get to SOX park.
It seems to me the best way to do this is via shuttle buses from downtown. They could pick up at Lake Transfer, Ogilvie, & then Union Station before hopping on the expressway to go to the park.
This covers fans from the NW, North, West, & S West that either live in the burbs or in the city. Charge $2 a ride or $4 an event.

I believe this change alone would add a few 1000 fans a night.

2) Create a carnival atmosphere around the ball park. Literally.
Work an agreement where a carnival can set up in one of the parking areas closest to the park.

3) Jumbotron movies. Move the game time up to 7pm & show movies after the game.

4) GET A FREAKIN' MASCOT that can identify with fans! Create a whole family of them so they can circulate around the park.

5) Allow Upper Deck patrons to walk the concourse before game time.

steff
04-05-2004, 05:27 PM
1. It's VERY easy to get to Comiskey via public transportation. As easy, if not easier than at Wrigley. And it's definitely 100000% easier to drive to.

2. Yea..... OK.

3. The games start at 7:05..

4. Yea.. that'll do it.

5. And allowing them to do so for the past decade didn't do **** for the attendance.. yet you think it'll make some huge difference now..? Alrighty...

Brian26
04-05-2004, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by CubKiller5
1) Make it easier for patrons with $'s to get to SOX park.
It seems to me the best way to do this is via shuttle buses from downtown. They could pick up at Lake Transfer, Ogilvie, & then Union Station before hopping on the expressway to go to the park.

This is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and it's obviously coming from someone who's never walked anywhere downtown and has no idea where the Red Line is. I hop off the train at Oglivie after work and can walk straight over to the Red Line, on Madison, in 10 minutes. How much easier could it be? The Red Line takes 15 minutes to get to the Cell. Hopping on a shuttle bus would be a huge waste of effort and time. You'd be stuck in traffic on the expressway for an hour. The Red Line costs $1.75. It's the coolest resource in the city. Learn about it.

Shuttle buses???? :?:

DrummerGeorgefan
04-05-2004, 05:49 PM
This might not increase attendance, but could the sox put the score of the game the billboard outside. I dont know how many times i have been on the redline without a radio and wondering what the score is

mweflen
04-05-2004, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by steff
I've NEVER shown up so late and yet have found folks in my seats - and they have the gall to be irritated when I ask them to move. Part of the reason UD folks can't come down is due to the "stealing" of LD seats... If they have to stay put, then why not everyone else, too.

but you have to look at things from the UD fan's point of view.

I buy an upper deck ticket, right? I dutifully sit in my seat and watch the game.

But what happens when I want to go to the can? All but one are closed.

What happens when I want to buy a cap from the shop? "Sorry, they only have that variety downstairs." Or, even better, it's closed after the 5th.

What happens when I want a particular concession that's only available in the LD? Many times, during 'light attendance' dates for the UD, there are two windows open and two booths - nachos and churros. What if I want Italian beef? OR a polish with onions?

I would venture that one of the reasons people have such a bad feeling about the UD is that you not only feel isolated from the game itself, but isolated from the ameneties of the LD. Then, when you have some snotty kid manning a gate to the 100 level and turning you away, it probably does not do much to engender warm and fuzzy feelings towards sox management.

Guys like Ligue's behavior can NOT be attributed to open LD access or even lax ushering of empty seats. It can be attributed to one thing and one thing ONLY - out of control beer sales.

I know when I worked at restaurants, servers were trained on how to recognize people past the point of sobriety - and instructed NOT to sell to them.

Some beer vendors are swell guys. But some hardly check IDs, let alone screen out sales to fans who are WAYYYY past the point of control.

William Ligue tanked himself at a CUBS game, then came into Comiskey already 3 sheets to the wind. How anyone looked at that scumbag's face and said "gee, he needs another beer" is beyond me.


----------
Steff, I don't condone the behavior of people who camp in your seat and then get snotty when you ask them to move.

As I've said, I think there's a polite way to do it and an impolite way. I only condone the polite way.

Polite seat camping:
-WAIT 2 or 3 innings to see if anyone will be claiming the seat.
-ONLY camp out in seats that do not obstruct anyone else's view
-comport yourself in the BEST possible manner: no swearing, spitting, rabble rousing, etc.
-GLADLY and apologetically relinquish the seat if anyone eventually comes to claim it, or if an usher asks to see your ticket.

-------------

Comiskey needs two things from its fans: civility and fun. Civility means treating the patrons around you as if they're all your beloved grandmama. Fun means not being hassled over innocuous minutae.

How hard is it?

mweflen
04-05-2004, 06:38 PM
another beef about the upper deck - turn the freakin' escalators on at the end of the game! it's obscene to make someone walk down all those ramps.

if they're worried about drunkards tipping over the edge of the escalators, put a screen around it or something.

but geez - nothing annoys me more after watching a game in the UD, having to tramp up and down a zillion steps whenever i want to go the the bathroom, get a drink, etc., and THEN being forced to navigate 15 ramps down to the street.

mweflen
04-05-2004, 06:48 PM
to all you folks who say pricing is not an issue:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=3&id=2053

based on this chart and factoring the 2004 prices into account, here are the percentage increases in prices since 1991:

Premium club box: 281%
Club Box: 268%
Lower Box: 246%
Lower Reserved: 311%
Bleachers: 433%
Premium Upper Box: 244%
Upper Box: 222%
Upper Reserved: 200%

Hmm. I don't recall a 400% rate of economic inflation since the inception of new Comiskey park - so why the 400% increases in some ticket prices? (with no section increased at LESS than 200%)

You had a demographic that skewed lower income. You had a price structure in 1991 which serviced them - anyone notice the high attendance of 1991 to 1994?

Then, you socked them all with 200 to 400% price increases - far outpacing inflation, and far outpacing the income increases of said demographic.

Who here is shocked? I'm not.

------------------
also, to those who point to the half price monday as Sox management's benevolent paean to the fans... has anybody checked the schedule and COUNTED up the mondays this year?

FOUR.

OUT OF 81.

What a steal!

And on tuesdays, where you can't buy a half priced ticket until the day of the game, you're forced to miss the first three innings because there are too few ticket windows open to handle the influx of patrons who SURPRISE, ACTUALLY want to GO to a Sox game because of the LOWER price!

Bottom line is, the Sox built a park that people don't like very much (myself not included, btw), then charged them through the nose to go there (see the above link), THEN heaped poor customer service upon them to top it off. Not to mention the lackluster teams of the last decade (2000 excepted)

Is it a big shocker that attendence is poor?

kittle545feet
04-05-2004, 07:58 PM
:bundy stop blowing 4 run leads in the 9th!

mweflen
04-05-2004, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by kittle545feet
:bundy stop blowing 4 run leads in the 9th!

this idea has some merit.

red faber
04-06-2004, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by kittle545feet
:bundy stop blowing 4 run leads in the 9th!


yeah,that would definately help!!!!

Brian26
04-06-2004, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by mweflen
another beef about the upper deck - turn the freakin' escalators on at the end of the game! it's obscene to make someone walk down all those ramps.

The ramps are a hell of a lot more fun to walk down after a victory than a loss. But, still, there's no way in hell I would want a crowd of tired, drunk, and possibly angry fans going down an escalator. It's lawsuit city waiting to happen. I disagree with you 100%.

steff
04-06-2004, 01:32 PM
The escalators off is not the Sox choice. City rule for Brian's posted comments. And it's not just about falling over them. People get caught in them all the time. They are dangerous and IMO, shouldn't be there at all.

As for the price complaining... compare our prices to the other CURRENT prices around the league, and specifically in OUR market, and the Sox are VERY affordable. Why are you comparing them to 13 years ago..? I make a hell of a lot more now than I did then.. If you don't.. now might be the time to think about a career change.


And finally.. no, I don't have to look at it from an UD fans POV. I choose to sit in the LD. I pay to sit in the LD. In the past when we bought extra tickets and Jim and I took his family we had UD seats.. we sat in the UD. End of story.

longwood
04-06-2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
Hmm. I don't recall a 400% rate of economic inflation since the inception of new Comiskey park - so why the 400% increases in some ticket prices? (with no section increased at LESS than 200%)

You had a demographic that skewed lower income. You had a price structure in 1991 which serviced them - anyone notice the high attendance of 1991 to 1994?

Then, you socked them all with 200 to 400% price increases - far outpacing inflation, and far outpacing the income increases of said demographic.

Who here is shocked? I'm not.

------------------
also, to those who point to the half price monday as Sox management's benevolent paean to the fans... has anybody checked the schedule and COUNTED up the mondays this year?

FOUR.

OUT OF 81.

What a steal!



First, I think the proper comparison is not comparing the price of tickets vs. economic inflation, but the price of tickets vs. other teams in comparable markets. I've been to games throughout the midwest and the Sox pricing scheme is definitely a better value than most ballparks.

I think the Sox half price promotions are great and is a legit attempt to bring in the fans. The majority of franchises do not offer this. My only minor complaint is that these promotions are subsidised by their most loyal customers - the season ticket owners. I personally, saw my costs jump $2000 this year. We don't get a break for half price Mondays, Tuesdays or kids day on Sunday. True, we get better seating, and a discount off of face value.

Do I think the Sox raised their ticket prices too much this year? Yes.

Do I think the prices are out of line with other franchises? No.

Brian26
04-06-2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by steff
I make a hell of a lot more now than I did then.. If you don't.. now might be the time to think about a career change

Haha. Hey Now!

joecrede
04-06-2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
to all you folks who say pricing is not an issue:

What should the ticket prices be in your opinion?

skottyj242
04-06-2004, 02:48 PM
What is SOX PARK?

CubKilla
04-06-2004, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
What should the ticket prices be in your opinion?

No more than they were last year considering we received nothing in this offseason compared to what we lost to justify a ticket price increase..... or a parking increase..... or a concession increase.

joecrede
04-06-2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
No more than they were last year considering we received nothing in this offseason compared to what we lost to justify a ticket price increase..... or a parking increase..... or a concession increase.

According to this survey from Team Marketing (http://www.teammarketing.com/fci.cfm?page=fci_mlb2004.cfm) the average price of a Sox ticket decreased 4% this year. They have the 11th highest average ticket price in MLB. I'm pretty sure that's before taking into account the various discount days.

CubKiller5
04-06-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
This is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and it's obviously coming from someone who's never walked anywhere downtown and has no idea where the Red Line is. I hop off the train at Oglivie after work and can walk straight over to the Red Line, on Madison, in 10 minutes. How much easier could it be? The Red Line takes 15 minutes to get to the Cell. Hopping on a shuttle bus would be a huge waste of effort and time. You'd be stuck in traffic on the expressway for an hour. The Red Line costs $1.75. It's the coolest resource in the city. Learn about it.

Shuttle buses???? :?:

You and Steff are both confusing EASY with CONVENIENT.
You're either nieve or dumb or have no clue what people are like
in the outer areas of the city & the burbs. So let me try to educate you :

1) They don't LIKE the EL. They think it's a cess-pool of drunkards
that pis & crap in their own pants when they ride it.

Now based on my experience of riding the Red Line early morning for 5 yrs I can't argue with them. I've been there days when it smells like a uranal & even on days were there has been crap left in a paper bag.

Sure, you can make the argument that it doesn't hurt Cub fans but then we don't have the 18-35 demo that the Cubs do.

2) They don't like to WALK. Especially in what they perceive as dirty EL stairways & tunnels.

Again I'm happy for you that you don't have a problem with walking 10 minutes from Ogilvie to the Orange Line, transfer to the Blue Line & then walk the tunnel to the Red. But obviously everybody ISN'T LIKE you.

That's how I go to the park when I don't drive as well.

3) You are full of yourself on the traffic estimate. I drive to games more often than ride to them & there has NOT been one time where riding the Metra to the Red Line has BEATEN the time it takes to drive & park! Now obviously it depends on where you are coming from & how far you have to drive.

4) The Red Line does NOT take 15 minutes to get to the park.
Because it fills up near game time it takes no less than 20 minutes to board & exit the train station & that doesn't include WAIT time!

5) When the game ends we have had to wait as LONG as 10-15 minutes just to get a train back to the city. Yes it's easy but it's anything but CONVENIENT! On the days I drive to the park, I get home in 1/2 the time it takes doing it the public tran way.

Finally, it's already in place for the Bulls/Blackhawks & Bears.
Likewise it's pretty much in place for Wrigley as well.
There has not been one time when I've taken the Metra to Irving Park for a Cub game where we had to wait for a bus to take us to the park. Likewise when the game ends there are more than enough buses to take you back to the Metra station. You almost never have to wait & when you do it's just a few minutes.

THAT"S CALLED EASY & CONVENIENT!

CubKiller5
04-06-2004, 03:53 PM
is good enough for the only reasonable public transportation alternative to driving I have these questions for you ..

Do you ever bother to talk to people who are not avid SOX fans who might bother going to see a game?

Do you ever talk to people who live in the burbs?

Because maybe if you dug yourself out of the rock in which your world lives where if it's good enough for you it's good enough for everybody you might learn something.

I talk to these non avid SOX fans all of the time. The number one reason they won't/don't go is because it's a pain in the arse for them to get to & from the ball park!

So grow up already!

It's 10 times as convenient to go to Wrigley for those who get to the city via the Metra than it is to go to SOX park. That's a basic fact that ANYONE not wearing SOX blinders can see.

But as long as fans like you are running this organization you'll continue to see the attendance drop & believe what you want to believe.

I wish the SOX would do a survey on the subject so they can educate you people with indisputable facts.

As far as driving, the parking increases are getting to where it will cost more to park than to buy a ticket to the game. That is certainly not helping the attendance any!

CubKiller5
04-06-2004, 04:05 PM
Is it still $13.00 or has it gone up again?
Do any of the Elders know the answer?

And for those of us who hate what Comiskey did to his players & don't like the whole corporate naming scheme the baseball park across from IIT on the South Side will always be known as SOX Park.

thecell
04-06-2004, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by CubKiller5
Is it still $13.00 or has it gone up again?
Do any of the Elders know the answer?

And for those of us who hate what Comiskey did to his players & don't like the whole corporate naming scheme the baseball park across from IIT on the South Side will always be known as SOX Park.

It went up to $15 this year...what a rip.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 05:04 PM
It's $16, friends. Look at your wallet schedules! $15 was last year.

Does anyone else get annoyed that the parking price stays the same, no matter how many blocks away you are?

poorme
04-06-2004, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
It's $16, friends. Look at your wallet schedules! $15 was last year.

Does anyone else get annoyed that the parking price stays the same, no matter how many blocks away you are?

Dude money is no object to real fans.

steff
04-06-2004, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by CubKiller5
You and Steff are both confusing EASY with CONVENIENT.
You're either nieve or dumb or have no clue what people are like
in the outer areas of the city & the burbs. So let me try to educate you :


*snip*





I drive. :)

Randar68
04-06-2004, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
It's $16, friends. Look at your wallet schedules! $15 was last year.

Does anyone else get annoyed that the parking price stays the same, no matter how many blocks away you are?

That's not nearly as annoying as having to read your pathetic drivel.

steff
04-06-2004, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by CubKiller5
is good enough for the only reasonable public transportation alternative to driving I have these questions for you ..

Do you ever bother to talk to people who are not avid SOX fans who might bother going to see a game?

Do you ever talk to people who live in the burbs?

Because maybe if you dug yourself out of the rock in which your world lives where if it's good enough for you it's good enough for everybody you might learn something.

I talk to these non avid SOX fans all of the time. The number one reason they won't/don't go is because it's a pain in the arse for them to get to & from the ball park!

So grow up already!

It's 10 times as convenient to go to Wrigley for those who get to the city via the Metra than it is to go to SOX park. That's a basic fact that ANYONE not wearing SOX blinders can see.

But as long as fans like you are running this organization you'll continue to see the attendance drop & believe what you want to believe.

I wish the SOX would do a survey on the subject so they can educate you people with indisputable facts.

As far as driving, the parking increases are getting to where it will cost more to park than to buy a ticket to the game. That is certainly not helping the attendance any!


I live in the burbs.. Plainfield to be exact. Do you have any idea how many miles from Comiskey Park that is..? OVER FORTY!! You think that's CONVENIENT for me...??

And since you insist, let's talk about a ticket and parking.. what's the cost to go sit at that **** hole on the north side comparable to what I pay at Comiskey Park...? Bleacher at Comiskey - $22, at the **** hole.. $50, $75, $100...? And how about parking...? $25 bucks if you're lucky and forget about getting out of that neighborhood for at least 2 hours after the game..

Personally, I don't care about the attendance. That's a Cub fan gripe.

Nice try trying to educate me. But no thanks... I'm well schooled in things Chicago White Sox.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by steff
Why are you comparing them to 13 years ago..? I make a hell of a lot more now than I did then.. If you don't.. now might be the time to think about a career change.


Steff, I didn't have a job in 1991, I was in high school.

It's pretty apparent that some people here have the aforementioned "sox blinders" on.

Next, we're going to hear that we have to turn out in record numbers BEFORE they field a competitive team.
-----------
In answer to "what prices would I like to see?"

Well, here are the current weekend (non-Cubs) prices again:

Premium Club Box: $45
Club Box: $43
Lower Box: $32
Lower Reserved: $28
Bleachers: $26
Premium Upper Box: $22
Upper Box: $20
Upper Reserved: $16

Here are my problems with these prices:

The 300 level seats are UNCOMFORTABLE. Has anyone here ever sat in them? They're so close together, and so close to the next tor up, as well. You have to climb over other people to go to the can. Now, I'm a skinny 26 year-old. 6 feet tall. Pretty average, all around. And *I'M* CRAMPED. I can only imagine with it's like for a guy who has 100 pounds on me. And the new concourse behind the 300 level does NOT justify the ticket price.

Bleachers that cost $26 is OBSCENE. You take what is supposed to be the discount section of the park (because of its uncomfortable metal benches) and price it HIGHER than UD seats behind home plate? Seems like a pretty frank admission of defeat to me... If they're going to charge this, why don't they rip out the benches and put actual seats in there?

None of the pricing areas take obstructed-view seating into account. Now sure, time was, there were no obstructed seats at Comiskey. But after the last 3 rounds of renovation, there are obstructed views in 100, 164, (inability to see the opposite outfield past the batter's eye) and now all around the upper deck (pillars). Do you see any discount for these seas reflected in the scheme? (Not to menton foul pole obstruction...)

Speaking of parking, as I mentioned, there is no graduation in parking rates the further you get from the park. They charge people at the IIT lot $16 just like they charge Lot B! I take the Red Line, personally, but when I have out of town guests, driving sometimes occurs.
-----------

What do I think prices SHOULD be?

Well, I don't have much problem with the prices of sections 110 to 154. They should be a little lower, but they're not outrageous.

So here would be my chart:

Premium Club Box (300): $25
Club Box (300): $20
Lower Box: $25
Lower Reserved (outfield): $20
Bleachers: $15
Premium Upper Box: $20
Upper Box: $15
Upper Reserved: $10
Any obstructed seat (100, 164, foul pole, UD poles): $5
Parking (A,B,C): $15
"Reserved" Parking: $10

Nice round numbers, that I think are fair.

-----------

Since when do 2nd and 3rd place finishes warrant automatic price increases?

steff
04-06-2004, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
That's not nearly as annoying as having to read your pathetic drivel.



:D:

mweflen
04-06-2004, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
That's not nearly as annoying as having to read your pathetic drivel.

Hey, excuse me for expressing an opinion which differs from yours. Maybe there should be a stuck post in the index about what opinions are appropriate for the forum.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 05:34 PM
I didn't realize that the "Comiskey Upgrade" and being a penny-pinching, working class fan were such unpopular stances among current Sox fandom.

Maybe it's just the ones with computers who are such "nouveau-riche" snobs :D:

steff
04-06-2004, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
I didn't realize that the "Comiskey Upgrade" and being a penny-pinching, working class fan were such unpopular stances among current Sox fandom.

Maybe it's just the ones with computers who are such "nouveau-riche" snobs :D:



:whiner: :whiner: :whiner:


I work hard for my money. And I enjoy the Sox. Bad me for making it a priority to afford tickets..


:whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

mweflen
04-06-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by steff

Bad me for making it a priority to afford tickets..


Which is exactly what my priority is: affording Sox tickets.

I go to 30 games a year. I've done it for 4 straight years now. Went to about 10 per year before 1999, as well. But soon, I won't be able to, because they keep increasing prices. That makes me mad.

Hence the vituperation in my posts.

poorme
04-06-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
Hey, excuse me for expressing an opinion which differs from yours. Maybe there should be a stuck post in the index about what opinions are appropriate for the forum.

Certain people are entitled to their opinions and allowed to call people names. Just get used to it.

steff
04-06-2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Certain people are entitled to their opinions and allowed to call people names. Just get used to it.



Oh please.. no one called anyone anything.

Your pot is boiling over.. :rolleyes...

poorme
04-06-2004, 05:45 PM
FYI: Calling people effing ignorant and refering to their opinions as pathetic drivel is not really polite.

joecrede
04-06-2004, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
Steff, I didn't have a job in 1991, I was in high school.

It's pretty apparent that some people here have the aforementioned "sox blinders" on.

Next, we're going to hear that we have to turn out in record numbers BEFORE they field a competitive team.
-----------
In answer to "what prices would I like to see?"

Well, here are the current weekend (non-Cubs) prices again:

Premium Club Box: $45
Club Box: $43
Lower Box: $32
Lower Reserved: $28
Bleachers: $26
Premium Upper Box: $22
Upper Box: $20
Upper Reserved: $16

Here are my problems with these prices:

The 300 level seats are UNCOMFORTABLE. Has anyone here ever sat in them? They're so close together, and so close to the next tor up, as well. You have to climb over other people to go to the can. Now, I'm a skinny 26 year-old. 6 feet tall. Pretty average, all around. And *I'M* CRAMPED. I can only imagine with it's like for a guy who has 100 pounds on me. And the new concourse behind the 300 level does NOT justify the ticket price.

Bleachers that cost $26 is OBSCENE. You take what is supposed to be the discount section of the park (because of its uncomfortable metal benches) and price it HIGHER than UD seats behind home plate? Seems like a pretty frank admission of defeat to me... If they're going to charge this, why don't they rip out the benches and put actual seats in there?

None of the pricing areas take obstructed-view seating into account. Now sure, time was, there were no obstructed seats at Comiskey. But after the last 3 rounds of renovation, there are obstructed views in 100, 164, (inability to see the opposite outfield past the batter's eye) and now all around the upper deck (pillars). Do you see any discount for these seas reflected in the scheme? (Not to menton foul pole obstruction...)

Speaking of parking, as I mentioned, there is no graduation in parking rates the further you get from the park. They charge people at the IIT lot $16 just like they charge Lot B! I take the Red Line, personally, but when I have out of town guests, driving sometimes occurs.
-----------

What do I think prices SHOULD be?

Well, I don't have much problem with the prices of sections 110 to 154. They should be a little lower, but they're not outrageous.

So here would be my chart:

Premium Club Box (300): $25
Club Box (300): $20
Lower Box: $25
Lower Reserved (outfield): $20
Bleachers: $15
Premium Upper Box: $20
Upper Box: $15
Upper Reserved: $10
Any obstructed seat (100, 164, foul pole, UD poles): $5
Parking (A,B,C): $15
"Reserved" Parking: $10

Nice round numbers, that I think are fair.

-----------

Since when do 2nd and 3rd place finishes warrant automatic price increases?

Your pricing scheme is outrageous. Looks like it's based in ignorance.

Randar68
04-06-2004, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by poorme
FYI: Calling people effing ignorant and refering to their opinions as pathetic drivel is not really polite.

However, it seems frighteningly appropriate in relation to the aforementioned poster.

steff
04-06-2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by poorme
FYI: Calling people effing ignorant and refering to their opinions as pathetic drivel is not really polite.



Did I call you ignorant..? Or are you taking my general comment about the tone of this board today - which, IMO, is ignorant - personally...

And when exactly did it become a board violation to call someone's opinion crap..?

Randar68
04-06-2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Your pricing scheme is outrageous. Looks like it's based in ignorance.

Not only that, but Sox ticket pricing and parking costs are WELL below league averages, so yes, ignorance is the best description.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by poorme
FYI: Calling people effing ignorant and refering to their opinions as pathetic drivel is not really polite.

ha. see the previous post by "joecrede" :D:

I'm just a guy with strong opinions about a team he loves to watch in a city that he loves to live in.

My personal OPINION of a fair pricing scheme is not based on ignorance, merely upon my apparaisal of past prices (actually, the opposite of ignorance... research) and what i feel fair current inflations of those prices are.

But hey, I've been accused of worse than ignorance... theft, writing pathetic drivel...

:cool:

steff
04-06-2004, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
ha. see the previous post by "joecrede" :D:

I'm just a guy with strong opinions about a team he loves to watch in a city that he loves to live in.

My personal OPINION of a fair pricing scheme is not based on ignorance, merely upon my apparaisal of past prices (actually, the opposite of ignorance... research) and what i feel fair current inflations of those prices are.

But hey, I've been accused of worse than ignorance... theft, writing pathetic drivel...

:cool:


And that's what makes this place what it is.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
However, it seems frighteningly appropriate in relation to the aforementioned poster.

I really don't fathom where all this bitterness towards my opinion comes from!

All I am is a cheapskate who wants to watch his favorite baseball team in person, not on television.

The Sox have been pricing people into their living room couches. It's as simple as that. Call this opinion ignorant if you wish, I suppose. :?:

Now excuse me while I head downstairs for five minutes to haggle my landlord over this year's rent increase... no 400% for me! :)

Randar68
04-06-2004, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
ha. see the previous post by "joecrede" :D:

I'm just a guy with strong opinions about a team he loves to watch in a city that he loves to live in.

My personal OPINION of a fair pricing scheme is not based on ignorance, merely upon my apparaisal of past prices (actually, the opposite of ignorance... research) and what i feel fair current inflations of those prices are.

But hey, I've been accused of worse than ignorance... theft, writing pathetic drivel...

:cool:

So it isn't ignorance, it's a matter of "living in the past" where increases of player salaries, labor costs, etc don't have an effect, as long as you can pay, in 2004, what you did 5 or 10 years ago?????

Sheeeeesh.


You're here...

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Reality is somewhere here...

Randar68
04-06-2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
I really don't fathom where all this bitterness towards my opinion comes from!

All I am is a cheapskate who wants to watch his favorite baseball team in person, not on television.

The Sox have been pricing people into their living room couches. It's as simple as that. Call this opinion ignorant if you wish, I suppose. :?:

You're ignorant. The White Sox ticket pricing is below league average in one of the major markets in the country. If you want to complain about it, you have to do so at an MLB-wide level.

But, alas, you're not, you're whining ( :whiner: )about the Sox pricing in particular. Uninformed and ignorant. You finally get it I hope.

poorme
04-06-2004, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by mweflen


All I am is a cheapskate who wants to watch his favorite baseball team in person, not on television.



Plan to go to the sox games at Miller Park. You can get seats for $5 and parking is $10.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
So it isn't ignorance, it's a matter of "living in the past" where increases of player salaries, labor costs, etc don't have an effect, as long as you can pay, in 2004, what you did 5 or 10 years ago?????


Okay, so NOW we're getting into the broader issue of MBL-wide inflation and price increases....

It's true, that most prices have increased across the board at similar rates, driven mainly by Steinbrenner's insane hiring practices, the Players Union and Agents' response to Steinbrenner ("If Giambi gets this much money for these stats, why not Player X?"), and MLB's impotence to fix the financial system of baseball with a real salary cap.

Don't accuse me of ignorance or patheticism for merely wanting to focus the conversation on Comiskey in particular, not MLB in general...

Daver
04-06-2004, 05:59 PM
Are you guys gonna make me close this thread?

Randar68
04-06-2004, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
Now excuse me while I head downstairs for five minutes to haggle my landlord over this year's rent increase... no 400% for me! :)

Nevermind the fact that there are laws restricting large rent increases and the fact that no tickets have increased 400% over the last 10-15 years at the least, but hey, why cite facts. You're really reaching now, and it's obvious you have no eff'ing clue what the hell you're talking about here, or in your Willie Harris thread or anywhere else.

morons.

Cheap bastard who is clueless. Much more fitting description.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
You're ignorant. The White Sox ticket pricing is below league average in one of the major markets in the country. If you want to complain about it, you have to do so at an MLB-wide level.

But, alas, you're not, you're whining ( :whiner: )about the Sox pricing in particular. Uninformed and ignorant. You finally get it I hope.

*You're* ignorant of the economic circumstances of the White Sox key demographic - urban working class fans.

There, nyah nyah nyah. I can resort to idiotic name calling, too.

Have opinion, will travel...

steff
04-06-2004, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
Okay, so NOW we're getting into the broader issue of MBL-wide inflation and price increases....

It's true, that most prices have increased across the board at similar rates, driven mainly by Steinbrenner's insane hiring practices, the Players Union and Agents' response to Steinbrenner ("If Giambi gets this much money for these stats, why not Player X?"), and MLB's impotence to fix the financial system of baseball with a real salary cap.

Don't accuse me of ignorance or patheticism for merely wanting to focus the conversation on Comiskey in particular, not MLB in general...


OK.. if you don't want to use all of MLB.. at least use the local market. Compare the Sox prices to the Cubs. Then to Milwaukee and St. Louis (be sure to allocate the proper travel costs).

Not taking into account the other variables makes your comparision inaccurate. It's like comparing Cougar prices to Sox prices.

I think that's why you're frustrating people. You're making ignorant (as in "uninformed" perhaps versus "stupid"..?) comparisons.

steff
04-06-2004, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Are you guys gonna make me close this thread?



No. :(:

Randar68
04-06-2004, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
Don't accuse me of ignorance or patheticism for merely wanting to focus the conversation on Comiskey in particular, not MLB in general...

You can't whine about the Sox' below-average pricing and some incremental increases in prices unless you're willing to address and focus on the issues pertaining to the whole league, which are the cause of the very thing you're deciding to complain and whine about.

poorme
04-06-2004, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Nevermind the fact that there are laws restricting large rent increases and the fact that no tickets have increased 400% over the last 10-15 years at the least, but hey, why cite facts.

Very true. Bleacher seats have only risen 350%.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Nevermind the fact that there are laws restricting large rent increases and the fact that no tickets have increased 400% over the last 10-15 years at the least, but hey, why cite facts. You're really reaching now, and it's obvious you have no eff'ing clue what the hell you're talking about here, or in your Willie Harris thread or anywhere else.

morons.

Cheap bastard who is clueless. Much more fitting description.

Price of bleacher seat in 1991: $6
Price of bleacher seat in 2004: $26
Timespan: 13 years
Increase: 433%

Game, set, match.

Who's ignorant? Who's name calling? I won't even touch the "bastard" remark.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=3&id=2053