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View Full Version : Sox trade Matt Ginter to the Mets:


ChiSox14305635
03-27-2004, 11:20 AM
In return for Timo Perez. Bruce Levine just reported this on ESPN 1000. Perez will be the 4th outfielder.

SoxxoS
03-27-2004, 11:22 AM
We can finally print those World Series tickets.....

ChiSox7
03-27-2004, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
In return for Timo Perez. Bruce Levine just reported this on ESPN 1000. Perez will be the 4th outfielder.

I wonder whose spot on the 25-man roster Perez takes?

SoxxoS
03-27-2004, 11:26 AM
Profile of Timo (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=6568)

I like what it says about defense.

ChiSox14305635
03-27-2004, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
I wonder whose spot on the 25-man roster Perez takes?


Probably Burke or Dransfeldt.

ChiSox7
03-27-2004, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Probably Burke or Dransfeldt.

That's too bad. I like their versatility, and both of those guys were playing pretty well in the spring.

Deadguy
03-27-2004, 11:40 AM
It's too bad Otis doesn't have an insider with the Mets, so he could have given us a heads up about this blockbuster trade. Right now I'm floored.

A. Cavatica
03-27-2004, 11:47 AM
I am disappointed that Ozzie wants to take 12 pitchers, just like Manuel. If you can't find 10 who are any good, why would you carry 2 more? It will only encourage him to run too many pitchers into a game, just like JM, chasing the lefty-righty advantage or trying to find work for everybody.

I can see that you might want to bring up an extra pitcher in interleague games, where you know you're going to pinch hit regularly. But a 10-man staff used to be enough for AL games. Even an 11-man staff is reasonable. But 12...?

So I would rather see the Sox keep Dransfeldt or Burke instead of that 12th pitcher.

A. Cavatica
03-27-2004, 11:50 AM
Though I do like the move...the team needed a defensive replacement and lefthanded PH. Perez should be a big improvement on Armando Rios. Ginter might be a useful reliever, but he wasn't going to get another chance with the Sox, for whatever reason.

A. Cavatica
03-27-2004, 12:05 PM
Looking at Perez's good defense, career walk rate (.312 OBP) and stolen base success rate (17 SB, 19 CS) I think Ozzie has finally found a player after his own heart!

Jeremy
03-27-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
I wonder whose spot on the 25-man roster Perez takes?

Joe Borchard is starting the season in AAA.

The way I see the 25 man roster-

the 11 pitchers
Buerhle
Loaiza
Garland
Schoeneweis
Wright

Koch
Takatsu
Marte
Politte
Wunsch
Sanders or Adkins

14 position players-
C - Olivo, Alomar, Burke
1b - Konerko, Gload
2b - Harris, Uribe
3b - Crede
SS - Valentin
LF - C.Lee
CF - Rowand, Perez
RF - Maggs
DH - Frank

HITMEN OF 77
03-27-2004, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Jeremy
Joe Borchard is starting the season in AAA.

The way I see the 25 man roster-

the 11 pitchers
Buerhle
Loaiza
Garland
Schoeneweis
Wright

Koch
Takatsu
Marte
Politte
Wunsch
Sanders or Adkins

14 position players-
C - Olivo, Alomar, Burke
1b - Konerko, Gload
2b - Harris, Uribe
3b - Crede
SS - Valentin
LF - C.Lee
CF - Rowand, Perez
RF - Maggs
DH - Frank

That's the way it would appear to me too.

SoxxoS
03-27-2004, 12:24 PM
I would definitely say Adkins over Sanders. Adkins has been getting rave reviews (for some reason) by Ozzie.

ukigdog
03-27-2004, 12:25 PM
I see it different:

Pitchers:
Buehrle
Loaiza
Garland
Schoenweis
Wright

Koch
Politte
Marte
Takatsu
Wunsch
Grilli
Adkins

Hitters:
Thomas
Konerko
Uribe
Harris
Valentin
Crede
Lee
Rowand
Maggs
Olivo
Alomar
Gload
Perez

Corlose 15
03-27-2004, 12:28 PM
I think its because Adkins hadn't given up any runs until a couple days ago. I also thought Grilli was gonna be on the team.

JDP
03-27-2004, 12:28 PM
I hope everyone isn't looking at ESPN for insight on Timo Perez. They are becoming worse and worse at said "Baseball Knowledge." I know a lot of Mets fans and Mets season ticket holders and they say, after watching him day in and day out --- well, see for yourselves at what was said:

"Horrible fielder -- I have never seen an OF have so many balls go over his head."

"I don't know who we got in return, nor do I care -- whatever it was, it was a steal by just ridding ourselves of Perez."

"No power, no SB-abilities, not really that good defensively and worse off, he's not really that baseball smart in general."

"We tried to move him for a BACKUP infielder and noone would take him."

SEALgep
03-27-2004, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by ukigdog
I see it different:

Pitchers:
Buehrle
Loaiza
Garland
Schoenweis
Wright

Koch
Politte
Marte
Takatsu
Wunsch
Grilli
Adkins

Hitters:
Thomas
Konerko
Uribe
Harris
Valentin
Crede
Lee
Rowand
Maggs
Olivo
Alomar
Gload
Perez This is definitely more likely, extra pitcher being Grilli for long relief. I would have liked Burke earning a spot as a backup third baseman and third cathcer. We should be okay though.

A. Cavatica
03-27-2004, 12:35 PM
Well, Robbie was better than advertised after we got him from the Mets -- though still a shadow of his former self. Their fans are at least as hard on their players as we are on ours.

Perez should still be a decent fourth OF. Where we run into trouble is if Ozzie falls in love with his playing style and trots him out there every day.

A. Cavatica
03-27-2004, 12:36 PM
I assume Carlos can still play 3B in an emergency (when Valentin, Uribe, Harris are all unavailable)?

dickallen15
03-27-2004, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by JDP
I hope everyone isn't looking at ESPN for insight on Timo Perez. They are becoming worse and worse at said "Baseball Knowledge." I know a lot of Mets fans and Mets season ticket holders and they say, after watching him day in and day out --- well, see for yourselves at what was said:

"Horrible fielder -- I have never seen an OF have so many balls go over his head."

"I don't know who we got in return, nor do I care -- whatever it was, it was a steal by just ridding ourselves of Perez."

"No power, no SB-abilities, not really that good defensively and worse off, he's not really that baseball smart in general."

"We tried to move him for a BACKUP infielder and noone would take him."

If the Mets really tried to trade him for a back-up infielder, why did they give him a $500,000 raise after last season? He isn't a great player, he probably isn't even a good one, but Ginter wasn't going to make the team, and this guy is a legitemate CF. He can't hit lefties at all, but is a decent 4th outfielder. He's a heck of a lot better than Roger Cedeno, in fact , the quotes seem to be about him.

MRKARNO
03-27-2004, 12:42 PM
My one concern is who plays third base if Crede is out? Will they always be forced to shift Valentin to third and put Harris at 2B and Uribe at Short? Or will Dransfeldt be in the equation? Or will Burke just slide in at 3b?

I guess only time can answer these questions.

And I do like the idea of having Perez as the 4th and at the same time a quick fix if Rowand dissapoints. This way, there is less pressure to call up Reed, Sweeney, Borchard or Anderson before they are ready.

ChiSox7
03-27-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
My one concern is who plays third base if Crede is out? Will they always be forced to shift Valentin to third and put Harris at 2B and Uribe at Short? Or will Dransfeldt be in the equation? Or will Burke just slide in at 3b?

I guess only time can answer these questions.

And I do like the idea of having Perez as the 4th and at the same time a quick fix if Rowand dissapoints. This way, there is less pressure to call up Reed, Sweeney, Borchard or Anderson before they are ready.

Uribe can play 3b

Malgar 12
03-27-2004, 12:59 PM
This is a great trade, if for no other reason that it has eliminated one more avenue for Willie "I can't get it out of the infield" Harris to actually make it on the field.

One down..... One to go!

RedPinStripes
03-27-2004, 01:25 PM
What about Ross Gload?

soltrain21
03-27-2004, 01:39 PM
Not a bad move I don't think...Ginter wasn't going to make it anyway.

SoxxoS
03-27-2004, 01:43 PM
Yeah, umm... I will still listen to ESPN over moron Met fans.

Mickster
03-27-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I would definitely say Adkins over Sanders. Adkins has been getting rave reviews (for some reason) by Ozzie.

Adkins has been solid in ST. His numbers:

W-L 0-0, 1.13 ERA, 7 games, 8.0 ip, 7 hits, 3 walks, 1 er, 1.125 WHIP

hose
03-27-2004, 02:10 PM
http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6568.jpg
"I'm versatile"

uribe151
03-27-2004, 02:48 PM
getting beat out by mike cameron is no shame...
he looks like a great pickup tp me! we still have too many ginters.

Roadblock Jones
03-27-2004, 03:01 PM
Hi, Met fan here.

Timmoniel Perez came to the Mets organization in the summer of 2000 via a minor league team in Japan. He hit 350-something at AAA Norfolk and earned a September callup. He took over for Derek Bell in RF after Bell was hurt in Game 1 of the NLDS and subsequently led the Mets to wins in that series, and the NLCS over St. Louis.

Almost nobody had never seen him before (including teammates and management, who had trouble communicating with him because he spoke a mix of Spanish and Japanese). They just kind of watched him -- a fast, slashing-type LH fastball hitter, prone to trying things like running bunts, which had been taught him in Japan. It all worked until the Yankees threw him nothing but junk in the World Series. He'll be remembered in that series for making the biggest mistake in Met history: On second base with two outs and Todd Zeile at the plate, he loafed around the bases on Zeile's long drive to LCF, which (goddamit) bounced off the top of the fence and back onto the field of play. Perez never knew it until he was thrown out at home, 7-6-2, ending the inning and the rally. The Mets go on to lose the game and the series.

If he runs like there were two outs, the Mets are still hitting now.

Since that moment, Perez has managed to hang on as a fourth outfielder but frequent minor injuries and a general lack of faith have kept him from doing all he was capable of. The Mets never thought he could hit LH pitching and hardly ever gave him chances to. This got more severe under Art Howe, who's a slave to this matchup stuff and didn't seem interested in championing him the way Bobby Valentine did.

If healthy, Perez is capable and fun to watch: He strikes the ball hard, runs fast if not well, can play all three OF positions adequately and has a wonderful smile. Definitely a hacker but not a big whiffer. One time, he'd stepped out of the box to call time but the umpire didn't grant it and the pitch was on the way; incredibly, he stepped back in in time to drive the ball screaming down the left-field line but foul; afterward Bobby Valentine called it the most amazing thing he'd ever seen. It was pretty cool.

There ya go -- Versatile 4th OF/PH/PR with some skill, needs to be healthy and watched over/disciplined. Here's to a long and dysfunctional relationship with him!

SEALgep
03-27-2004, 03:03 PM
Thanks Roadblock, good to know.

jabrch
03-27-2004, 03:03 PM
Is this the big deal Cheeses promised? :)

A. Cavatica
03-27-2004, 03:05 PM
Thanks Roadblock. I wish we'd seen enough of Ginter to be able to offer good information back. He has talent, and always performed well in the minors & got roughed up in limited duty with the Sox -- that doesn't bode well for playing in NYC.

harwar
03-27-2004, 03:07 PM
I go to New York quite a bit and like to go to Mets games(i don't go near yankee stadium) and the only thing that i remember firsthand about Timo is that he has a great arm.
As for the disparaging comments on Perez,well..i don't put too much stock into that as these days its difficult to find a Mets fan who has anything positive to say about any player.

CubKilla
03-27-2004, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by JDP
I know a lot of Mets fans and Mets season ticket holders and they say, after watching him day in and day out --- well, see for yourselves at what was said:

"Horrible fielder -- I have never seen an OF have so many balls go over his head."

"I don't know who we got in return, nor do I care -- whatever it was, it was a steal by just ridding ourselves of Perez."

"No power, no SB-abilities, not really that good defensively and worse off, he's not really that baseball smart in general."

"We tried to move him for a BACKUP infielder and noone would take him."

:KW

"That's why I traded for him. He's the 'Todd Ritchie' of CF'ers."

Hangar18
03-27-2004, 04:15 PM
Looks like Im getting my Season Tickets after all

Veeky
03-27-2004, 04:53 PM
I don't know. In 2002, he was actually a good player -- did ok in CF, ran bases well (for him anyway) and more importantly hit RHP to the tune of 830 OPS, which away from Shea would be close to 850 -- Carl Everett land in other words.

Last year he was back to his below average self.

So it's eitner a mini-steal to give Rowand some good competition or a wash/non-news -- Ginter is a AAAA pitcher.

Either way.....we still need a #3 starter, Roberts/Alomar 2B and a Koch back-up in the pen.

SEALgep
03-27-2004, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
I don't know. In 2002, he was actually a good player -- did ok in CF, ran bases well (for him anyway) and more importantly hit RHP to the tune of 830 OPS, which away from Shea would be close to 850 -- Carl Everett land in other words.

Last year he was back to his below average self.

So it's eitner a mini-steal to give Rowand some good competition or a wash/non-news -- Ginter is a AAAA pitcher.

Either way.....we still need a #3 starter, Roberts/Alomar 2B and a Koch back-up in the pen. From what people have said and what I've read on him, he should be a good backup CF. He isn't here to take the job from Rowand, but rather give him days off from time to time against right handed pitchers. Also to pinch hit/pinch run/ and back up Lee and Maggs in addition to Gload. I don't figure to see him against lefties very often. I like the deal, although I'm a little disappointed that Burke probably be a casualty to the 25 man roster. All in all, it seems to be positive.

What's wrong with Garland in the 3 spot of the rotation?

jeremyb1
03-27-2004, 05:47 PM
Perez isn't particularly good but we needed a fourth outfielder and we were obviously way too dumb to give Ginter any kind of a shot so this move isn't particularly dissapointing.

maurice
03-27-2004, 06:10 PM
This guy was acquired to fill the role that was going to be assigned to pre-drug-scandal Belliard. He seems at least adequate.

IIRC, Rob Deer once tried to call time out against the Sox, was denied his request, stepped most of the way back into the box, and jacked a homer. The ump didn't notice that he was out of the box and counted it. Now THAT's an amazing feat illustrating Deer's motto: "swing hard in case you hit it."

ChiSox14305635
03-27-2004, 09:31 PM
The Cubune has yet to post the trade on there. Maybe they're in "Ginter denial".

santo=dorf
03-27-2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
The Cubune has yet to post the trade on there. Maybe they're in "Ginter denial".

There working on a way to spin Maddux's 5 ER game into a positive start for the overpaid, over-the-hill pitcher.

Veeky
03-28-2004, 03:53 AM
What's wrong with Garland in the 3 spot of the rotation?

Only two things:

1. Not talented enough.
2. Not tough enough


Other than that, he is a good #3.

Bisco Stu
03-28-2004, 01:55 PM
As a Mets fan who's seen Timo play dozens of times, I can tell you he's got a great eye for the ball and should hit even better in the AL. Plus he always plays hard. We wouldn't have won the 00 pennant without him. I'm glad he's a Sox.

Huisj
03-28-2004, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
Only two things:

1. Not talented enough.
2. Not tough enough


Other than that, he is a good #3.

have you ever posted anything positive about anyone on here? In the short month you've been here, it seems like everything you've said about everyone in any position in the organization has been completely negative.

Veeky
03-28-2004, 11:10 PM
ESPN "scout":

Perez is the Mets' best all-around defensive outfielder. He owns above-average arm strength and good accuracy, enabling him to accumulate six outfield assists last year-second-best on the team. He plays one of the more shallow center fields in the game because of his speed and ability to read balls off the bat

It's funny Rowand gets dissed so much 'round here, but he too had 6 assists (with no errors and a ZR through the roof) last year in center.

In 39 starts.

:D:

ChiWhiteSox1337
03-28-2004, 11:25 PM
Is that a scouting report from before the signing of Cameron?

Veeky
03-29-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by ChiWhiteSox1337
Is that a scouting report from before the signing of Cameron?

have no idea, probably in the same time frame as Mike's signing.