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Railsplitter
03-27-2004, 07:59 AM
What Sox Mananger was worse than Jerry Manuel?

cubhater
03-27-2004, 08:16 AM
Bevington should be a runaway winner in this poll. I'm sure everyone remembers the time he motioned to the pen to bring in a reliever when nobody was warming up. At least Manuel wouldn't have done that. You can't signal for a reliever when you're sleeping. :D:

TornLabrum
03-27-2004, 08:26 AM
I can name two right off the bat: Don Gutteridge and Boomer.

soxtalker
03-27-2004, 08:39 AM
Of those listed Bevington stands out in my mind. I've been a fan since the 60's, and he would garner my vote easily in that time period. It would be interesting to see how the managers of the Sox horrible teams back in the 20's, 30's, and 40's would rank.

ode to veeck
03-27-2004, 08:59 AM
OK now give us a hard question ...

A. Cavatica
03-27-2004, 10:34 AM
All of the above?

My memory only goes back to the Kessinger & Doby era, but the only managers better than Manuel since then were LaRussa and Torborg. Lamont was about the same. The others all stunk.

TheRockinMT
03-27-2004, 10:36 AM
There is no way that Stanky should be listed on that poll. Manuel was not a bad manager either he just didn't have the karma for the job.

oldcomiskey
03-27-2004, 11:15 AM
Stanky almost led to the club to the series at least once

CubKilla
03-27-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
Manuel was not a bad manager either he just didn't have the karma for the job.

Manuel was a bad manager because he failed to realize that , after 6 seasons, all his tinkering and BP shuffling did absolutely jack-zero to produce W's. If anything, JM's biggest fault, IMHO, was that he always made the BP moves too early or, occasionally, too late. And JM begrudgingly failed to pull a BP spot (Botch in '03 anyone?????) from a pitcher until it was too late.

Bevington was just a moron.

ChiSoxFann
03-27-2004, 04:01 PM
Jerry had the best team in the divison the last three years and won nothing thats my vote

voodoochile
03-27-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Manuel was a bad manager because he failed to realize that , after 6 seasons, all his tinkering and BP shuffling did absolutely jack-zero to produce W's. If anything, JM's biggest fault, IMHO, was that he always made the BP moves too early or, occasionally, too late. And JM begrudgingly failed to pull a BP spot (Botch in '03 anyone?????) from a pitcher until it was too late.

Bevington was just a moron.

He was a terrible leader. He just had no idea how to motivate people and didn't understand it was part of his job description. You would have thought he would have caught on after the brawl with the Tigers in '00 when he dressed up as a bellcap to greet the team after a road win, but it seems his brain decided that stuff just got in the way of figuring out ways to "improve" the lineup by constantly tinkering.

Still Bevington was just flat stupid, so you really cannot get worse than him...

uribe151
03-27-2004, 05:11 PM
all the others on the list were darn good

larussa is my all time least favorite but even he was way better than mr. bevington

ps ozzie will go down in SOX HISTORY as the greatest ever!!!!!!!

DrummerGeorgefan
03-27-2004, 05:59 PM
I had to vote for Bevington for the sole reason that I believe he started the whole managers wearing the cutoff windsuit tops instead of the jersey

oldcomiskey
03-27-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
all the others on the list were darn good

larussa is my all time least favorite but even he was way better than mr. bevington

ps ozzie will go down in SOX HISTORY as the greatest ever!!!!!!!

I just figured something out---uribe151 is really Jay Morriotti

RedPinStripes
03-27-2004, 08:22 PM
Looks like the out of work porn star look a like i mean Bevington wins this by a long shot.

RedPinStripes
03-27-2004, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
I just figured something out---uribe151 is really Jay Morriotti

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Uribe151, You gotta fight back on that one. :o:

MikeW
03-27-2004, 10:04 PM
I would have to go with Don Gutteridge. Unfortunately for him he became to close to the players when he was a coach under Al Lopez, so when he became the boss the players didn't take him seriously. In his defense, GM Ed Short didn't give him much to work with. It was Short who traded away Agee,Buford,Weis and Martin after the 1967 season that started the mess beginning in 1968 and ending with the Gutteridge reign in 1969-70.

TornLabrum
03-27-2004, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by MikeW
I would have to go with Don Gutteridge. Unfortunately for him he became to close to the players when he was a coach under Al Lopez, so when he became the boss the players didn't take him seriously. In his defense, GM Ed Short didn't give him much to work with. It was Short who traded away Agee,Buford,Weis and Martin after the 1967 season that started the mess beginning in 1968 and ending with the Gutteridge reign in 1969-70.

Gutteridge was way too brutally honest in his assessment of his starting pitching in 1970. Before the season in an interview he said something like, "Remember 'Spahn and Sain and pray for rain'? This year for us it will be 'Horlen and John and then we get bombed.'"

Gutteridge is also the author of a quote I've used in my .sig on occasion. While watching Walt Williams taking flyballs during spring training, he pointed him out and said, "He makes the hard ones look hard."

cwsox
03-27-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Railsplitter
What Sox Mananger was worse than Jerry Manuel?

We had a division title with Jerry Manuel -

oh yes I know anyone of the street could have coached is to a divisiont itle which si why we have so many but still that is something he has done

get off JM

he is not our manager anymore, he has been fired, what is the reason for continuing to kick at him?

Whitesox029
03-27-2004, 11:36 PM
Terry "boom boom" Bevington winsin a landslide in this competition. Any manager who won a division and/or was named manager of the year should definitely be left off the list (Manuel, Lamont). Bevington always seemed to be yelling at someone, and so he didn't come off as a very friendly person (the fact that he looked like Mario with a gastrointestinal problem didn't help his case much). Manuel was the anti-Bevington because he was media friendly, player-friendly, everyone-friendly. That just got old, as most managers do after 5-7 years. No one lasts anymore. Not only that, the Sox just couldn't get it done under either Bevington or, in the post-2000 years, Manuel.

JoseCanseco6969
03-27-2004, 11:36 PM
I cant believe people actually voted for Gene Lamont. What the hell did he do that was so terrible that he could possibly be worse than manuel or bevington?????

Railsplitter
03-28-2004, 07:59 AM
Bevington is indeed an obvious choise. Don Kessinger and Larry Doby were two unispired managerial choices during Bill Veeck's second tenure (In which veeck went through mangers as almost as often as George Steinbrenner or Charlie Finley) La Mont, like Manuel and Bevington, seemed to be content to sit and wait for the big guys to pop, rather than sening thier speed guys to steal second.

Railsplitter
03-28-2004, 08:04 AM
Sorry for the ommison. Eddie Stanky did indeed keep the sox contention during the hectic 1967 season, but according to Richard Lindberg's "Who's on Third?" Stanky seemed more content to mouth off at the opponets. Also, somebody has to account for losing the last five games of the '67 season to bottom feeders. And there's the total Sox collapse in 1968.

A. Cavatica
03-28-2004, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
I cant believe people actually voted for Gene Lamont. What the hell did he do that was so terrible that he could possibly be worse than manuel or bevington?????

I don't think anyone actually voted for Lamont, but he certainly wasn't significantly BETTER than Manuel, and he may have been a little worse. Both Manuel and Lamont cost us playoff series. But it's a pointless argument because the other candidates were MUCH worse.

beckett21
03-28-2004, 06:48 PM
I think anyone would be hard pressed to name a worse manager in the history of baseball than Bevington.

Except maybe Dusty Baker. :)

Veeky
03-28-2004, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by cwsox
We had a division title with Jerry Manuel -

oh yes I know anyone of the street could have coached is to a divisiont itle which si why we have so many but still that is something he has done

get off JM

he is not our manager anymore, he has been fired, what is the reason for continuing to kick at him?

Strategically, he was always below average (Sullivan to Ortiz anyone?) and the last 2 seasons he was non-existent from the motivational standpoint as well.

Giving him credit for 2000 (only 1st half) is nice. Hell, I can forgive him for the 2nd half, for the playoffs and even for the entire, injury-plagued 2001.

2002 is when we bit the dust. Total corpseball. Minnesota played inspired, self-less baseball and obsolutely effin' OWNED us in every department. KW did his share of the "damage" -- Ritchie for Wells was horrible --, but Manuel was completely ineffective.

I am not even going to mention 2003. Because we failed in 2002, the payroll was not what it should have been. And yet, Sox were STILL the best, most talented team in ALC once Milton and Mays went down with injuries early and Santana had to fill in the long-relief duties......First 3 months were sickening -- unmotivated, selfish, stupid and fundamentally unprepared team getting outplayed by AA Tigers. Both Williams and Manuel should have been fired in June. Should thank their lucky stars they were given yet another chance to rectify past sins. They failed again.

What else is there to say?

DannyCaterFan
03-28-2004, 09:14 PM
For all us long-suffering White Sox fans, there were more than a few managers worse than Jerry Manuel. Let's not forget the 1970 Sox under Don Gutteridge, or that 1976 team led by the often asleep Paul Richards. Let's see..... well Don Kessinger never had a chance, and of course we all remember Terry Bevington. At least jerry was better than those guys.

WSox8404
03-28-2004, 09:34 PM
Bevington was the worst manager in the history of baseball, not just the Sox.

Veeky
03-28-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by WSox8404
Bevington was the worst manager in the history of baseball, not just the Sox.

80% agrees with you.

My problem: Bevington was the manager in 1996 and 1997, no? Does anyone here honestly believe Sox were better than the Indians? I don't. That cannot be said for 2002 and 2003 -- Twins shouldn't have had ANY hopes at winning more than 83-85 and should have been unloading at the break instead of buying up. Sox badly underachieved. Sox handed the division to them on a platter. It was disgusting.

Manuel picked the wrong time to be a clueless, lifeless manager IMO. He did more "damage" to Sox future than Bevington did.