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View Full Version : Uribe will be in Opening Day Lineup


fledgedrallycap
03-26-2004, 10:29 AM
Daily Herald reporting Jaun Uribe will get the nod Opening Day against K.C.:

"I want him to know if he's not starting the first couple games of the season, that doesn't mean he's not the starting second baseman,'' Guillen said. "Just because you don't start doesn't mean you won't play. I have to make the best lineup I can make every day to win games. I think right now, Uribe has earned that spot.''

I like this move if for no other reason that Ozzie is in control and has the stones to make a move for the good of the team.

fledgedrallycap
03-26-2004, 10:29 AM
Linky:

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sox.asp?intID=38072154

CubKilla
03-26-2004, 11:46 AM
Willie Harris couldn't beat out the player KW acquired to take over Graffenino's cheering spot on the bench.

I'm shocked!

Irishsox1
03-26-2004, 11:51 AM
Wille can't hit. End of story. At least Uribe has some pop in his bat.

Deadguy
03-26-2004, 11:55 AM
I hope Uribe remains in the lineup permanently. Willie Harris has never given us any reason to believe he is capable of handling Major League, Minor League, Mexican League, Pony League, or California Penal League pitching.

It wouldn't matter if we could hide him in the 9th spot, like we used to do with Ozzie, but we can't have a lead off hitter who causes pitchers to fall off the mound in laughter every time he steps up to the plate.

SEALgep
03-26-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
I hope Uribe remains in the lineup permanently. Willie Harris has never given us any reason to believe he is capable of handling Major League, Minor League, Mexican League, Pony League, or California Penal League pitching.

It wouldn't matter if we could hide him in the 9th spot, like we used to do with Ozzie, but we can't have a lead off hitter who causes pitchers to fall off the mound in laughter every time he steps up to the plate. Don't you think that analysis is a little excessive. The guy batted .400 in the minors, so he has given us reason to believe he's capable. Also his speed will manufacture more than a couple base hits as well as making pitchers turn their laughs into worries when he's on.

Foulke You
03-26-2004, 12:59 PM
I just worry about Uribe's glove at 2B. I've read that he struggles more when he plays out of position at 3B and 2B. The guy's natural position is SS. I don't want another D'umb Angelo Jimenez there.

I tend to think that Ozzie is going to let both of them play equal time in April and the one who steps up will get the bulk of the playing time as the season progresses.

uribe151
03-26-2004, 02:21 PM
URIBE=REGULAR SHORTSTOP...good fielder, good hitter...might become a top player
VALENTINE= dh (but there is no spot for him; besides, he isn't that hot of a hitter...
he's proven he CAN"T PLAY BIG LEAGUE SHORTSTOP
he's killing us at short!
HARRIS= maybe he'll be ok...hasn't hit at all yet...i hope he can do it!!!

it's fundamental that a successful team must be solid at shortstop

GO GO SOX!
GO GO URIBE!
GO GO OZZIE!

hillbilly
03-26-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
URIBE=REGULAR SHORTSTOP...good fielder, good hitter...might become a top player
VALENTINE= dh (but there is no spot for him; besides, he isn't that hot of a hitter...
he's proven he CAN"T PLAY BIG LEAGUE SHORTSTOP
he's killing us at short!
HARRIS= maybe he'll be ok...hasn't hit at all yet...i hope he can do it!!!

it's fundamental that a successful team must be solid at shortstop

GO GO SOX!
GO GO URIBE!
GO GO OZZIE!

How, in any way, do you justify uribe being a better ss than valentin? Please explain why you think Valentin can't play big league SS. If anything, he's proven to me that he is a big league SS while Uribe hasn't. Your claim is absolutely ridiculous and I'm pretty sure you're retarded.

MRKARNO
03-26-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
URIBE=REGULAR SHORTSTOP...good fielder, good hitter...might become a top player
VALENTINE= dh (but there is no spot for him; besides, he isn't that hot of a hitter...
GO GO URIBE!


Valentin is a shortstop that has good range and commits an average amount of errors compared for someone with his range. Uribe is a better defensive shortstop. Uribe is not a huge step up devensively over Valentin.
The deciding factor: Valentin hit 28 home runs last year. Uribe has only 24 in his entire career.

Uribe might be better than Harris, but stop continuing to kid yourself by thinking that Uribe has a shot over Valentin.

MisterB
03-26-2004, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
The guy batted .400 in the minors, so he has given us reason to believe he's capable.

Can we kill this little piece of misinformation? Willie never hit .400 in the minors. he hit .380 over 100 ab's at AAA last year. The highest average he ever carried over a full season was .305 at AA. Yes, his ML playing time has been so sporadic that it's hard to get into a groove, but he's looked completely overmatched at the plate and hasn't stepped up when chances have been given to him.

BTW, can anyone explain the logic of ESPN.com listing sac hits, sac flies, and HBP in their spring batting stats, but not walks? :?:

batmanZoSo
03-26-2004, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by fledgedrallycap
Daily Herald reporting Jaun Uribe will get the nod Opening Day against K.C.:

"I want him to know if he's not starting the first couple games of the season, that doesn't mean he's not the starting second baseman,'' Guillen said. "Just because you don't start doesn't mean you won't play. I have to make the best lineup I can make every day to win games. I think right now, Uribe has earned that spot.''


Why in a column stating that Uribe is our starter do they include that quote?

fledgedrallycap
03-26-2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Why in a column stating that Uribe is our starter do they include that quote?

The quote was referencing Willie Harris.

voodoochile
03-26-2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by hillbilly
How, in any way, do you justify uribe being a better ss than valentin? Please explain why you think Valentin can't play big league SS. If anything, he's proven to me that he is a big league SS while Uribe hasn't. Your claim is absolutely ridiculous and I'm pretty sure you're retarded.

Please refrain from personal attacks. If I have to say this again, you won't get a third chance...

SEALgep
03-26-2004, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
Can we kill this little piece of misinformation? Willie never hit .400 in the minors. he hit .380 over 100 ab's at AAA last year. The highest average he ever carried over a full season was .305 at AA. Yes, his ML playing time has been so sporadic that it's hard to get into a groove, but he's looked completely overmatched at the plate and hasn't stepped up when chances have been given to him.

BTW, can anyone explain the logic of ESPN.com listing sac hits, sac flies, and HBP in their spring batting stats, but not walks? :?: Okay .380 then. .305 during a full season at AA is not a bad feat either. Besides, when I saw him in ST, he looked pretty decent. I saw him slap a two rbi double down the opposite field line. Hes not an all star, but to say he hasn't given any indication that he can hit major league pitching is false.

voodoochile
03-26-2004, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Okay .380 then. .305 during a full season at AA is not a bad feat either. Besides, when I saw him in ST, he looked pretty decent. I saw him slap a two rbi double down the opposite field line. Hes not an all star, but to say he hasn't given any indication that he can hit major league pitching is false.

No it isn't. He has not shown he can consistently be productive offensively on the major league level. That was true in Baltimore, last year in Chicago and again this spring. When handed the job coming into ST, he got beat out. It doesn't get any plainer than that.

Harris may some day develop into an everyday player, but right now, he hasn't done so.

Beyond all that, your assessment that .305 at AA is not bad, you are correct, of course it isn't good either...

batmanZoSo
03-26-2004, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by fledgedrallycap
The quote was referencing Willie Harris.

Oh...

uhhh...

Hey, look over there!

:smile:

uribe151
03-26-2004, 04:48 PM
THIS MIGHT BE HARRIS' FINAL CHANCE...
but he deserves it and if he can hit, he could turn out to be
an ALL-STAR

GO GO SOX!

voodoochile
03-26-2004, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
THIS MIGHT BE HARRIS' FINAL CHANCE...
but he deserves it and if he can hit, he could turn out to be
an ALL-STAR

GO GO SOX!

Um, isn't that true of all baseball players trying to break into the majors?

uribe151
03-26-2004, 05:19 PM
not all players deserve a chance to see if they can hold down a regular job;
harris has earned his by
1. tearing up the minors
2. displaying world-class raw talent, including speed and switch-hitting


note: i also think that this is his final chance, but it makes sense to give it to him

voodoochile
03-26-2004, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
not all players deserve a chance to see if they can hold down a regular job;
harris has earned his by
1. tearing up the minors
2. displaying world-class raw talent, including speed and switch-hitting


note: i also think that this is his final chance, but it makes sense to give it to him

Well, Ozzie disagrees and since neither one of them is guaranteed to be a star, I would prefer to go with the guy who is lighting up ST and was at one time projected to have a much higher ceiling before injuries slowed him down.

uribe151
03-26-2004, 05:48 PM
i didn't fully express myself because i am the guy who says:

Uribe= REGULAR SHORTSTOP

Harris= REGULAR SECOND BASEMAN

Valentine= part-time dh or pinch-hitter or TRADE HIM!!
we have the best dh in the league...big frank

i love jose for being a CUB-KILLER and CLASS GUY and a CLUTCH HITTER
he has trade value, but he's on the downswing of his career (eg:.237)

DUE TO HIS PROVEN POOR DEFENSE, WE SIMPLY CAN"T CARRY HIM AT SHORTSTOP ANY LONGER!!!!!

by the way, is my memory bad or did jose make the third out at third base
FOUR or FIVE times last year???

MRKARNO
03-26-2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by uribe151

DUE TO HIS PROVEN POOR DEFENSE, WE SIMPLY CAN"T CARRY HIM AT SHORTSTOP ANY LONGER!!!!!


Proven poor defense? Give me a break. Jose Valentin's defense is among the upper tier of shortstops.

Jose's Range factor was 4.64 last year, good for 7th in the majors. For comparison, Tejada was 8th with 4.63 and A-rod was 9th with a 4.54. Number one was Adam Everett with a 4.96 RF.

Jose's Zone Rating was .893, good for second in the MLB! Only David Eckstein was better, but not by much at .896.

Everyone's favorite SS, Derek Jeter is last in both categories with a 3.75 RF, far below any other SS and a .791 Zone Rating, also far below the second worst.

Valentin's fielding percentage is what everyone looks at, but you have to look past that.

Uribe does have an excellent range factor as it is consistantly above 5. If he played a full year at short, he would probably be tops in the league, but we have a SS there already whose all around game is better.

voodoochile
03-26-2004, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
i didn't fully express myself because i am the guy who says:

Uribe= REGULAR SHORTSTOP

Harris= REGULAR SECOND BASEMAN

Valentine= part-time dh or pinch-hitter or TRADE HIM!!
we have the best dh in the league...big frank

i love jose for being a CUB-KILLER and CLASS GUY and a CLUTCH HITTER
he has trade value, but he's on the downswing of his career (eg:.237)

DUE TO HIS PROVEN POOR DEFENSE, WE SIMPLY CAN"T CARRY HIM AT SHORTSTOP ANY LONGER!!!!!

by the way, is my memory bad or did jose make the third out at third base
FOUR or FIVE times last year???

Gumshoe is that you?

Will you please explain how Valentin is a liability at SS?

Instead of talking strictly about batting average (which is a poor determiner of offensive prowess) perhaps you would like to talk about OPS or OBP or any other number of more relevant offensive statistics, all of which Jose beats the living snot out of Harris at.

uribe151
03-26-2004, 06:27 PM
how come he has been tried at center, third, etc?
how come graffanino did a whole lot of the heavy lifting at short?

hey, i would not mind seeing him at first, maybe, but i still see konerko

re-establishing himself as an all-star

maybe the dodgers also think jose can play first

note: mark twain said, "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics"

based upon my observations, tejada, jeter, arod, omar v, the kid on kc, and others are far superior defensively and the stats you cite do not convince me otherwise

do you think big league scouts consider him an elite defender? i don't

voodoochile
03-26-2004, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
how come he has been tried at center, third, etc?
how come graffanino did a whole lot of the heavy lifting at short?

hey, i would not mind seeing him at first, maybe, but i still see konerko

re-establishing himself as an all-star

maybe the dodgers also think jose can play first

note: mark twain said, "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics"

based upon my observations, tejada, jeter, arod, omar v, the kid on kc, and others are far superior defensively and the stats you cite do not convince me otherwise

do you think big league scouts consider him an elite defender? i don't

He's been tried so many places because his bat is too valuable to put on the bench.

His best position is SS. Until the Sox find a guy who can both outhit and outfield him, he should be the starter.

uribe151
03-26-2004, 06:53 PM
mark twain popularized the quote by british statesman BENJAMIN DISRAELI,

"There are three kinds of statistics: lies, damn lies, and statistics"

statistics in baseball are uniquely useful and fun... but some are a lot more useful and fun than others...

JRIG
03-26-2004, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by uribe151

Valentine= part-time dh or pinch-hitter or TRADE HIM!!
we have the best dh in the league...big frank



I'll beat you to it, Daver...

There's no one on the White Sox 40-man roster named Valentine.

uribe151
03-26-2004, 06:55 PM
should be "three kinds of lies:"

kittle545feet
03-27-2004, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by uribe151
mark twain popularized the quote by british statesman BENJAMIN DISRAELI,

"There are three kinds of statistics: lies, damn lies, and statistics"

statistics in baseball are uniquely useful and fun... but some are a lot more useful and fun than others... dude, what the hell are you talking about? :?:

mweflen
03-27-2004, 02:48 AM
Put Willie back in... he ain't done yet!

I for one think Tony G should have been the Sox' everyday 2nd Baseman. He could hit .275 plus if he played every day, and he played with heart. He's going to KILL us on the Royals.

Uribe has proven he can perform in the majors, even if it was in Colorado. He'll probably hit .260, which is about .060 more than I see Wilie doing.

But hey - prove me wrong! Prove us all wrong! I'd love to see Willie make the all star team and hit .380. Excuse me while I refrain from holding my breath...

voodoochile
03-27-2004, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by mweflen
Put Willie back in... he ain't done yet!

I for one think Tony G should have been the Sox' everyday 2nd Baseman. He could hit .275 plus if he played every day, and he played with heart. He's going to KILL us on the Royals.

Uribe has proven he can perform in the majors, even if it was in Colorado. He'll probably hit .260, which is about .060 more than I see Wilie doing.

But hey - prove me wrong! Prove us all wrong! I'd love to see Willie make the all star team and hit .380. Excuse me while I refrain from holding my breath...

A wise decision.

Welcome Aboard! :D:

uribe151
03-27-2004, 01:39 PM
dude, what are you talking about


good call! it's just a goofy way of saying that some of the stats being used are worthless and dumb...for example, any stats that tend to show that valentin is one of the elite defensive shortstop in the al are worthless and dumb...

go go sox!
go go uribe!

voodoochile
03-27-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
good call! it's just a goofy way of saying that some of the stats being used are worthless and dumb...for example, any stats that tend to show that valentin is one of the elite defensive shortstop in the al are worthless and dumb...

go go sox!
go go uribe!

Defensive stats as a rule are pretty worthless, but tell us why/how you evaluate Valentin as being bad?

I mean, do you have any reason aside from, "he sucks?"

uribe151
03-27-2004, 02:50 PM
I'VE WATCHED HIM PERFORM ERRATICALLY FOR YEARS...he stinks.
THE SOX BRASS HAS BEEN TRYING TO FIND A PLACE FOR HIM SOMEWHERE IN THE LINEUP FOR YEARS...HELL, THEY BROUGHT IN ROYCE CLAYTON WHEN THEY HAD VALENTIN LOCKED IN TO A MULTI-YEAR CONTRACT!!!

IT'S BAD WHEN YOUR SHORTSTOP NEEDS A SOLID BACKUP TO CARRY HIS GLOVE!
WAY BAD!

I GUESS MY MIND IS RUINED BY MEMORIES OF APARICIO, RON HANSEN, OZZIE GUILLEN AND OTHERS AND I'M CONVINCED WE NEED AT LEAST A SOLID GLOVE
WIELDER AT SHORTSTOP... (for example, scott fletcher or vance law or URIBE)
IF WE ARE TO DO ANY GOOD
BIG FRANK IS DYNAMITE BUT MUST PLAY DH EVERY DAY
KONERKO IS BACK, BABY!
I'D LOVE TO SEE VALENTIN(he's a clutch hitter, cub killer and CLASS GUY) GET SOME LEFTY AT BATS FOR THESE GUYS, BUT NOT TOO MANY!... PINCH HITTER V. CUBS?
...some fans think valentin looked ok last year with halloffamer alomar at 2nd and
reliable graffanino doing the heavy lifting...these men are gone...so if you think valentin is ok, WAKE UP AND GET READY FOR THE NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
go go sox!!!! go go uribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

uribe151
03-27-2004, 03:33 PM
in soxdom we've had guys like jorge orta and alan bannister(after his arm injury) who were awesome offensive players but defensive liabilities in the middle infield...it just doesn't work out...

even first base is critical, which is why i thank God konerko is solid and big frank can dh full time (WORST IN BASEBALL HISTORY AT FIRST BASE)

ps jorge orta could hit!!!!!

voodoochile
03-27-2004, 03:49 PM
I see, because the Sox were stupid enough to bring in Royce Clayton rather than work with Valentin on his throwing, that somehow makes him a bad SS.

I guess we will have to disagree...

CWSGuy406
03-27-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
not all players deserve a chance to see if they can hold down a regular job;
harris has earned his by
1. tearing up the minors
2. displaying world-class raw talent, including speed and switch-hitting


note: i also think that this is his final chance, but it makes sense to give it to him

Harris doesn't switch hit...... :?:

uribe151
03-27-2004, 04:09 PM
is there a punch-line there?