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View Full Version : Japan Hero, MLB ZERO!


BeerHandle
03-24-2004, 09:28 AM
This guy is absolutely Brutal! The only exciting thing about him was his nickname, "Mr. Zero."

How does this guy have 260 career saves in 13 seasons in Japan?

The Japanese talent level must be drastically lower the MLB.

Take a look at these stats for "MR. ZERO" through the 6 games he has played in.

O Wins
1 Loss
10.13 ERA
5.1 IP
12 Hits
6 Runs
6 ER

Will this guy see any action during the season?

thepaulbowski
03-24-2004, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
Will this guy see any action during the season?

Yes, in Charlotte.

Baby Fisk
03-24-2004, 09:41 AM
:KW

"Y'all need to chill. It's all a matter of perspective. If you convert these numbers into Japanese, it's actually 3 wins, 0 losses, and a well-built, economical ERA of 2.10. It's like converting Dollars into Yen. Relax, this guy is big in Japan."

BeerHandle
03-24-2004, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
:KW

"Y'all need to chill. It's all a matter of perspective. If you convert these numbers into Japanese, it's actually 3 wins, 0 losses, and a well-built, economical ERA of 2.10. It's like converting Dollars into Yen. Relax, this guy is big in Japan."

I could care less if he was good in JAPAN. He is in the MLB and is getting shelled by many players that will play in the minors this year!!!

What a great pick up for $750,000!!!

cubhater
03-24-2004, 10:14 AM
Almost makes Rick White look like a stud on the mound.

Mickster
03-24-2004, 10:24 AM
Heard this morning on AM 1000 that he will brobably start the year in Charolette.

Paulwny
03-24-2004, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
I could care less if he was good in JAPAN. He is in the MLB and is getting shelled by many players that will play in the minors this year!!!

What a great pick up for $750,000!!!


You get what you paid for.

petekat
03-24-2004, 11:27 AM
Dudes it's early. Do you really want to be overanalyzing March spring training box scores?? If so, let's sing the praises of that longstanding cornerstone of the Sox rotation- Scott Ruffcorn. Wake me when the games count. :whiner:

minastirith67
03-24-2004, 11:47 AM
This is spring training, not regular season stats dumbass...

sas1974
03-24-2004, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by cubhater
Almost makes Rick White look like a stud on the mound.

WHOA!! Let's not get carried away now! :D:

But seriously...this guy DOES suck. THIS was supposed to be the time that he was going to do so well, bc of his "deceptive throwing motion." Remember there was talk about him not facing AL teams bc they wanted to surprise them.

This guy is the worst thing to come out of Japan since the Beta VCR.

pudge
03-24-2004, 12:52 PM
Wow, starting in Charlotte?? Has anyone from Japan ever come over and started in the minors?

LuvSox
03-24-2004, 01:03 PM
Can we at least wait until the season starts before we ship him back? Relax people.

sas1974
03-24-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by pudge
Wow, starting in Charlotte?? Has anyone from Japan ever come over and started in the minors?

For $750K, I'd row the boat over myself. :D:

We have Tetsu Yofu down in Charlotte. Did he come over from Japan or was he born here?

sas1974
03-24-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Can we at least wait until the season starts before we ship him back? Relax people.

I am typically pretty patient w/ these sorts of things, but he has done nothing to prove he belongs on an American ML team yet. I haven't seen him up close, so it's hard to say if there is any value to these poor numbers he's put up or not. What I do know is that if doesn't have at least ONE solid outing that he should start in Charlotte until he figures out what's wrong. I think that this year, more than any in recent history, it is very important to get off to a quick start and we can't put this guy out there pitching like this. I know it's spring...the good stats aren't as good as they seem and bad stats aren't as bad as they seem, but the season does start in two weeks and he hasn't shown us much to be excited about yet.

kittle42
03-24-2004, 03:49 PM
The thing is that it's not necessarily spring stats overall that matter - it's what kind of stuff the guy seems to have. Takatsu is getting roughed up virtually *every* outing.

That = not good.

ChiWhiteSox1337
03-24-2004, 03:52 PM
Why send him to the minors? Just let him face minor league talent in the mlb vs the tigers! :)

CWSGuy406
03-24-2004, 05:52 PM
I think the money that went into resigning Shoenweis and the money given to Shingo should have went elsewhere. Perhaps Ugueth Urbina would be a better pickup, though he wants more than Shoe and Shingo take up, maybe JR would open up about two million. Should that have been in pink?

Either way, it's ST; Ill rip them when they suck during the season.

BeerHandle
03-24-2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
The thing is that it's not necessarily spring stats overall that matter - it's what kind of stuff the guy seems to have. Takatsu is getting roughed up virtually *every* outing.

That = not good.

I couldn't agree with you more. Some of the teams he faced were split squads. That means he was facing minor league players.

Where is the deceptive motion?

Even Olivo and Alomar said this guys stuff is unbelievable! The only thing that is unbelievable is how easy it is to get a hit off Mr. Zero!

Foulke You
03-24-2004, 07:02 PM
Pitchers that are dependent on breaking pitches to get people out tend to struggle in places where the air is light like in Arizona. The ball just doesn't break the same in those places. I'm not saying this is his only problem but let's wait and see how he does when he is out of that bright Arizona sunshine where you can pick up the ball easier and out of that light Arizona air. I tend to think when he pitches in April in the midwest, he is going to be much more effective but then again, I try to remain optimistic in the Spring. If he gets shelled in April, then I'll be critical of the move.

HomeFish
03-24-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Pitchers that are dependent on breaking pitches to get people out tend to struggle in places where the air is light like in Arizona. The ball just doesn't break the same in those places. I'm not saying this is his only problem but let's wait and see how he does when he is out of that bright Arizona sunshine where you can pick up the ball easier and out of that light Arizona air. I tend to think when he pitches in April in the midwest, he is going to be much more effective but then again, I try to remain optimistic in the Spring. If he gets shelled in April, then I'll be critical of the move.

The air isn't light in North Carolina, is it? Test him out there.

ode to veeck
03-24-2004, 10:12 PM
Zero-san was our biggest move in the offseason. Score it a zero for Sox management on a 750k gamble for an old breaking ball thrower. Wish it weren't true but its not looking good ...

BeerHandle
03-25-2004, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
Zero-san was our biggest move in the offseason. Score it a zero for Sox management on a 750k gamble for an old breaking ball thrower. Wish it weren't true but its not looking good ...

I hear you. Hopefully he will do something this season that will make the 750k worth while.

sas1974
03-25-2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by HomeFish
The air isn't light in North Carolina, is it? Test him out there.

I couldn't agree more. Let's see if he can get anyone out in AAA first.

soxtalker
03-25-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by CWSGuy406
I think the money that went into resigning Shoenweis and the money given to Shingo should have went elsewhere. Perhaps Ugueth Urbina would be a better pickup, though he wants more than Shoe and Shingo take up, maybe JR would open up about two million. Should that have been in pink?

Either way, it's ST; Ill rip them when they suck during the season.


I understand the concern about the terrible spring training. However, I'll come down on the side of those who are willing to give him more time.

As someone pointed out in another thread, this has to be an incredible change for the guy -- both to the US major leagues and just living in this country. Based on the limited interviews I've seen, it sounds like he knows virtually no English. I think that could easily affect his pitching.

Let him go to Charlotte and become familiar with the US game and atmosphere. I find it hard to believe that his past accomplishments don't indicate some potential, though he is approaching the end of his career. If he does well, he can be brought up later in the season, and the batters will have that much less time to become acquainted with his delivery.

KingXerxes
03-25-2004, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
I understand the concern about the terrible spring training. However, I'll come down on the side of those who are willing to give him more time.

As someone pointed out in another thread, this has to be an incredible change for the guy -- both to the US major leagues and just living in this country. Based on the limited interviews I've seen, it sounds like he knows virtually no English. I think that could easily affect his pitching.

Let him go to Charlotte and become familiar with the US game and atmosphere. I find it hard to believe that his past accomplishments don't indicate some potential, though he is approaching the end of his career. If he does well, he can be brought up later in the season, and the batters will have that much less time to become acquainted with his delivery.

A couple of weeks ago Sports Illustrated had an article on Japanese players who come to the United States and have a hellacious time trying to "fit in". Sending this guy to Charlotte (which I don't believe has much of a Japanese population) may not work for social reasons. They have a hard enough time getting along in New York and LA. This is not an easy fix.

Baby Fisk
03-25-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Pitchers that are dependent on breaking pitches to get people out tend to struggle in places where the air is light like in Arizona. The ball just doesn't break the same in those places. I'm not saying this is his only problem but let's wait and see how he does when he is out of that bright Arizona sunshine where you can pick up the ball easier and out of that light Arizona air. I tend to think when he pitches in April in the midwest, he is going to be much more effective but then again, I try to remain optimistic in the Spring. If he gets shelled in April, then I'll be critical of the move.

No offense to Foulke You, but this explantion made me LOL...

:KW

"He's struggling because of the atmosphere. When we get him into that Chicago smog, he'll be ringing up every batter. Just ringing 'em up."

sas1974
03-25-2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
A couple of weeks ago Sports Illustrated had an article on Japanese players who come to the United States and have a hellacious time trying to "fit in". Sending this guy to Charlotte (which I don't believe has much of a Japanese population) may not work for social reasons. They have a hard enough time getting along in New York and LA. This is not an easy fix.

There is no question that it has to be hard on this guy to make this jump. I cannot even begin to imagine what he must be going through. But if he can't cut it, that's too bad. If he can't perform, we can't bring this guy to Chicago just bc we don't want to hurt his feelings.

I agree this is a very touchy situation. It's going to be interesting to see how they handle it. They way they handle this could have a huge impact on our relations w/ foreign players in the future.

KingXerxes
03-25-2004, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
There is no question that it has to be hard on this guy to make this jump. I cannot even begin to imagine what he must be going through. But if he can't cut it, that's too bad. If he can't perform, we can't bring this guy to Chicago just bc we don't want to hurt his feelings.

I agree this is a very touchy situation. It's going to be interesting to see how they handle it. They way they handle this could have a huge impact on our relations w/ foreign players in the future.

I never intended to say he should come to Chicago if he wasn't cutting it, I guess my point was to mean that if he doesn't cut it they should just cut their losses and let the guy go. I don't see how going to Charlotte helps a 35 year old reliever. They should just move on if he doesn't make it.

sas1974
03-25-2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I never intended to say he should come to Chicago if he wasn't cutting it, I guess my point was to mean that if he doesn't cut it they should just cut their losses and let the guy go. I don't see how going to Charlotte helps a 35 year old reliever. They should just move on if he doesn't make it.

Ah...I missed that portion of it. I guess I am not sure. If it's just the American game he's have trouble with then maybe a trip to Charlotte will help. He mentioned that American hitters were very aggressive and swung harder than in Japan. If he just doesn't have the talent to make it, then I agree that at 35, they should just let him go.

BeerHandle
03-26-2004, 10:08 AM
The Japanese experiment could be over before it even began!

soxwon
03-26-2004, 08:06 PM
be patient give the guy a chance!!
maybe he should be in the minors now, but by mid season he will be saving games in the BIG DANCE.

BeerHandle
04-09-2004, 07:05 PM
I said it befor and I will say it again. JAPAN HERO, MLB ZERO. He is terrible First batter: Double, Second batter: Homer.

HE IS WORTHLESS!!!

HomeFish
04-09-2004, 07:09 PM
Shingo looked good. He was throwing strikes. The only problems he had were the two back-to-back extra base hits.

What the hell is a guy named BUBBA doing on the YANKEES anyway?

Nard
04-09-2004, 07:09 PM
... Yikes.

:gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

They would figure him out after two pitches.

Both long hits came on what would be strike three... o_o

infohawk
04-09-2004, 07:11 PM
Before everyone gets to down on Takatsu, let's remember that besides being his first Major League game, he faced several lefties. Based upon his pring training performance, he does seem to struggle against lefties. He also did work ahead in the count to the first two batters and demonstrated a pretty good ability to hit the inside corner. That said, if he doesn't improve against lefties, the Sox are paying an awful lot of money (one million) for a righty specialist!

OEO Magglio
04-09-2004, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
I said it befor and I will say it again. JAPAN HERO, MLB ZERO. He is terrible First batter: Double, Second batter: Homer.

HE IS WORTHLESS!!!
Shingo is going to be just fine, give him a couple of outings, it was his first outing ever in america, calm down and give him a couple of chances before you jump all over him.

dpbyron
04-09-2004, 07:12 PM
My scouting report on Takatsu:

Made two mistakes and paid for em'

Hit 90 a couple of times, showed good movement.

His change could be nasty, curve looks like a frisbie.

Really needs great control to be effective.

He looked very nervous... Can we blame him?

Can we give him a chance?

HomeFish
04-09-2004, 07:19 PM
I think we've found our new "righty specialist."

Unregistered
04-09-2004, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by HomeFish
Shingo looked good. He was throwing strikes. The only problems he had were the two back-to-back extra base hits.

What the hell is a guy named BUBBA doing on the YANKEES anyway? Ask Bubba Trammell. Crosby is actually the second "Bubba" in the last 2 years to play for the Yanks...

mikef1331
04-09-2004, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
I said it befor and I will say it again. JAPAN HERO, MLB ZERO. He is terrible First batter: Double, Second batter: Homer.

HE IS WORTHLESS!!!

At least he didn't blow a 4 run lead in 9th to loose the game.... I'm looking at you Marte.

CubKiller5
04-09-2004, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by dpbyron
My scouting report on Takatsu:
Made two mistakes and paid for em'
Hit 90 a couple of times, showed good movement.
His change could be nasty, curve looks like a frisbie.
Really needs great control to be effective.
He looked very nervous... Can we blame him?
Can we give him a chance?

YES!!!

Give him time to learn & figure it out.
He's not Parque. He has filthy stuff.

Mr Zero is a statement on how he's never given up a RUN in POST SEASON play in Japan. His teams have seen a LOT of PS play so it's quite a feat.

It was never about the regular season. Give the guy a chance.
He might be one of the best relievers we have by season's end.

iwannago
04-09-2004, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by CubKiller5
YES!!!

Give him time to learn & figure it out.
He's not Parque. He has filthy stuff.

Mr Zero is a statement on how he's never given up a RUN in POST SEASON play in Japan. His teams have seen a LOT of PS play so it's quite a feat.

It was never about the regular season. Give the guy a chance.
He might be one of the best relievers we have by season's end.

I think we got Shingo at the wrong time. We should wait until were in the playoffs and the playoffs are in Japan

iwannago
04-09-2004, 08:06 PM
PS.

I think "he gone" when Wunch comes off the diabled list.

crector
04-09-2004, 08:44 PM
Zero didn't do too bad esp. considering the fact that according to Rooney and Farmer, the ump called as balls what ere really strikes. Give him time and he should come through.

Mohoney
04-09-2004, 09:08 PM
I can't blame Shingo for that homer. Olivo called 3 STRAIGHT INSIDE FASTBALLS! If you show ANYBODY the same pitch 3 times in a row, they will tee off. Olivo should have called for something offspeed and away after the 2 inside fastballs.

I'll go out on a limb and say that if Sandy's catching, Shingo works a scoreless frame.

Anybody that can change speeds from 90 to 67 is pretty nasty in my book.

Paulwny
04-09-2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Mohoney
I can't blame Shingo for that homer. Olivo called 3 STRAIGHT INSIDE FASTBALLS! If you show ANYBODY the same pitch 3 times in a row, they will tee off. Olivo should have called for something offspeed and away after the 2 inside fastballs.

I'll go out on a limb and say that if Sandy's catching, Shingo works a scoreless frame.

Anybody that can change speeds from 90 to 67 is pretty nasty in my book.


There was a discussion this week , Olivo doesn't call the pitches, they come from the bench.

Daver
04-09-2004, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Mohoney
I can't blame Shingo for that homer. Olivo called 3 STRAIGHT INSIDE FASTBALLS! If you show ANYBODY the same pitch 3 times in a row, they will tee off. Olivo should have called for something offspeed and away after the 2 inside fastballs.

I'll go out on a limb and say that if Sandy's catching, Shingo works a scoreless frame.

Anybody that can change speeds from 90 to 67 is pretty nasty in my book.


Sandy and Don Cooper call all of the pitches for Miguel.

Mohoney
04-09-2004, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
There was a discussion this week , Olivo doesn't call the pitches, they come from the bench.

Well, then what the hell is Cooper's problem?

Shouldn't he know better?

CWSGuy406
04-09-2004, 09:41 PM
Yeah, Shingo kept going inside and low. Eventually they're going to hit it.

I'd give Shingo another shot, though - hopefully just against righties. Jeter didn't know what was coming. Plus, I'd bet that he was nervous as heck, pitching in his first major league game, in Yankee Stadium of all places, and he has to face Hideki Matsui, a fellow man of his culture (sorry, couldn't think of a better term). He seemed to have good movement, he just has to realize you can't leave too many pitches up in the majors or else you're in a lot of trouble.

Lip Man 1
04-09-2004, 10:06 PM
Tom Gordon and Scott Sullivan are looking better and better every time the Sox trot out any of the right handed relief corps. (and of course, Uggie Urbina who wanted to play for the Sox was to expensive...)

Hope Kelly Wunsch is OK...the Sox need any quality they can get out of the pen from either side.

Lip

batmanZoSo
04-09-2004, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Mohoney
Well, then what the hell is Cooper's problem?

Shouldn't he know better?

Hey I have confidence in Coop. There's gotta be a method to his madness. Overall he's done a pretty solid job since he came here.

gogosoxgogo
04-10-2004, 12:43 AM
I liked what I saw out of Shingo today. His pitches really dance all over the plate. The runs he gave up looked to be straight fastballs right over the plate. I'm not panicing with him. I was actually excited by him today despite giving up 2 runs in an inning. I think he can be a solid contributor out of the pen. Let's just wait and give this guy a chance. He was making his first MLB start against the Yankees in the Bronx. He was probably just letting his nerves get to him. Give him time.

Mohoney
04-10-2004, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Hey I have confidence in Coop. There's gotta be a method to his madness. Overall he's done a pretty solid job since he came here.

I'll tell you one thing, batman. If Coop called for 3 straight fastballs from Shingo today, and called for Marte to relieve Billy Koch against Matt "Babe" Stairs on Monday, then he's a flat-out NITWIT!

Ozzie may need to start vetoing Cooper if this nonsense keeps up.

Anyway, I digress. Please, make sure that you know that it's not you that I'm directing this rant to.

My entire point is, whoever called the EXACT SAME pitch 3 TIMES IN A ROW should be shot out of a cannon directly into the center of the sun. If it's Coop, then so be it.

batmanZoSo
04-10-2004, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by Mohoney
I'll tell you one thing, batman. If Coop called for 3 straight fastballs from Shingo today, and called for Marte to relieve Billy Koch against Matt "Babe" Stairs on Monday, then he's a flat-out NITWIT!

Ozzie may need to start vetoing Cooper if this nonsense keeps up.

Anyway, I digress. Please, make sure that you know that it's not you that I'm directing this rant to.

My entire point is, whoever called the EXACT SAME pitch 3 TIMES IN A ROW should be shot out of a cannon directly into the center of the sun. If it's Coop, then so be it.

I read ya. In theory there's no reason a hitter can't be fooled by a fastball when he's looking off-speed...just like he's fooled by offspeed when looking for a fastball. If you get two fastballs in a row...you wouldn't be looking for another fastball in a million years. They probably were hoping it would freeze him up. It didn't.

Well, hindisight is always 20/20. lol

OurBitchinMinny
04-10-2004, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Sandy and Don Cooper call all of the pitches for Miguel.

Shouldnt olivo learn at some point?

BeerHandle
04-10-2004, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
Shouldnt olivo learn at some point?

Don't forget this is only his second ful season. I read in an article, that one of sandy's duties is to teach him. That is why they continue to resign Sandy. He will be a future Sox coach and will continue to work with Olivo. He has all the talents. Did you see him get Matsui at Second? AWESOME!

SSN721
04-10-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
Did you see him get Matsui at Second? AWESOME!

I agree, that play certainly made that inning much easier for Garland to get through. He's got a cannon, that's for sure.

StockdaleForVeep
04-12-2004, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
I liked what I saw out of Shingo today. His pitches really dance all over the plate. The runs he gave up looked to be straight fastballs right over the plate. I'm not panicing with him. I was actually excited by him today despite giving up 2 runs in an inning. I think he can be a solid contributor out of the pen. Let's just wait and give this guy a chance. He was making his first MLB start against the Yankees in the Bronx. He was probably just letting his nerves get to him. Give him time.


Agreed, startin at yankee stadium in the presence of "godzilla" is a big thing(hideki matsui). I recall when sox skipped buehrle to start cotts against the yankees and he got obliterated, I dont see anyone calling for his head after that game and hes supposed to be our future stud and "ha ha we screwed you oakland" pickup

bennyw41
04-12-2004, 10:35 AM
I thought it was cool how each one of his pitches had lefties jumping out of the box, and then cut across the plate. I agree that we should give him a break, I mean, first apperance in NYC, no pressure right? Neal Cotts anyone? Plus, the game was out of reach, it wasn't like he killed us.

BeerHandle
05-06-2004, 12:28 PM
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. This guy is making me eat my words.