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A. Cavatica
03-22-2004, 10:58 PM
whitesox.com has an early version of the AAA roster...looks like once again the Knights will be amply stocked with has-beens and never-wases.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/minorleagues/team_roster.jsp?c_id=cws&minor_id=INTLCHA

A lot of these players (Bullard, Campos, etc.) were in spring camp and/or appeared in spring games with the Sox. However, there were others (e.g. Borchard, Reed, Rauch, Cotts, Munoz) who were also in camp and/or appeared in games, but are likely destined for Charlotte. These players don't (yet) appear on the Charlotte roster.

Can someone more familiar with the rules explain them to me? At what point do spring rosters become meaningful? Why would the better prospects be able to avoid being officially listed as Charlotte Knights?

Rex Hudler
03-22-2004, 11:09 PM
What you are looking at is basically a paper roster. It will change quite a bit in the next few weeks. I'd go as far to say most of those players will not end up in Charlotte.

Reed is still on the AA roster. Players on the Sox 40-man roster are not listed on the AAA roster until they are officially optioned there. This roster is also not up to date.

Just looking at the pitchers, my guess is most of the following will not be in Charlotte:

Wyatt Allen
Byeong An
Jeff Bajenaru
Jim Bullard
Carlos Castillo (released)
Josh Fields
Kris Keller
Rob Purvis
Matt Smith
Jason Stumm
Dennis Ulacia
Tetsu Yofu

Of those, my guess is that Yofu and Bajenaru have the best chance to be in Charlotte. Of course any players being traded, injured or released could have a domino effect and bump some of these guys up.

Rex Hudler
03-22-2004, 11:20 PM
Here is my best guess for Charlotte's pitching staff.... Obviously it is dependent on who makes the Major League roster, if Ginter is traded or claimed on waivers, anyone is injured, etc.

Rauch
Cotts
Diaz
Stewart
Adkins
Pacheco
Sanders
Ginter
Majewski
Duncan
Darensbourg

Yofu/Grilli/Bajenaru are other possibles.

pearso66
03-22-2004, 11:54 PM
Grilli will be sent back to Florida if he doesnt stay on the MLB roster all season long, so he's not a possibililty

MisterB
03-22-2004, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
Can someone more familiar with the rules explain them to me? At what point do spring rosters become meaningful? Why would the better prospects be able to avoid being officially listed as Charlotte Knights?

Right now they only show players 'officially' on the Charlotte roster, which doesn't include players on the Sox 40-man roster (like Rauch or Borchard), and includes non-roster invitees on minor league contracts (Darensbourg, Jackson) and a lot of players that were promoted right after the ML season ended and will be assigned to a lower level before the upcoming season starts (Bullard, Campos). Like most rosters, they don't mean much until the season starts, which for the minors is about a week after the ML season does.

Rex Hudler
03-23-2004, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by pearso66
Grilli will be sent back to Florida if he doesnt stay on the MLB roster all season long, so he's not a possibililty

See the Adkins thread for details, but it is possible. The Sox could offer a player in trade to the Marlins if they want to keep him. Probably not likely, but definitely possible. Oakland did this with Eric Hinske after picking him in the Rule 5 draft from the Cubs.

Fungo
03-23-2004, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Here is my best guess for Charlotte's pitching staff.... Obviously it is dependent on who makes the Major League roster, if Ginter is traded or claimed on waivers, anyone is injured, etc.

Rauch
Cotts
Diaz
Stewart
Adkins
Pacheco
Sanders
Ginter
Majewski
Duncan
Darensbourg

Yofu/Grilli/Bajenaru are other possibles.

Rex~
Is Ginter out of options now? I always liked him, but he has just never seemed to stick with the big league club. I remember seeing him in college, I believe at Mississippi State, and was impressed then, but I don't think he was ever given a real opportunity in Chicago.

Rex Hudler
03-23-2004, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Fungo
Rex~
Is Ginter out of options now? I always liked him, but he has just never seemed to stick with the big league club. I remember seeing him in college, I believe at Mississippi State, and was impressed then, but I don't think he was ever given a real opportunity in Chicago.

Ginter is indeed out of options. He will have to clear waivers before he can be sent back to Charlotte. My hunch is he may be traded.

fsphog
03-23-2004, 07:27 PM
ginter has another option - he used all three in his 1st five years of pro ball, therefore he is eligible for one more, or so ive heard

Rex Hudler
03-23-2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by fsphog
ginter has another option - he used all three in his 1st five years of pro ball, therefore he is eligible for one more, or so ive heard



He was called up to Chicago in September 2000, originally placed on the 40-man roster at that time. He was optioned to Charlotte in 2001, 2002 and 2003. Once you have used three options, you are done, without clearing waivers. Ginter is out of options.

Rex Hudler
03-23-2004, 08:24 PM
However, there were others (e.g. Borchard, Reed, Rauch, Cotts, Munoz) who were also in camp and/or appeared in games, but are likely destined for Charlotte.

Nothing is set yet, but there is a solid chance Munoz will be sent back to Birmingham.

southsidegirl
03-23-2004, 08:49 PM
Carlos Lee....since when did El Caballo catch?

edit:Sorry, I just remembered that he had a younger brother w/ the same name. How is that for weird?

fsphog
03-24-2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
He was called up to Chicago in September 2000, originally placed on the 40-man roster at that time. He was optioned to Charlotte in 2001, 2002 and 2003. Once you have used three options, you are done, without clearing waivers. Ginter is out of options.

trust me - look it up in the rule book - ginter has one more option.

Rex Hudler
03-24-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by fsphog
trust me - look it up in the rule book - ginter has one more option.

Care to tell me where to find this info? I am interested. The only exception I found is that if a player is optioned to the Minors for less than 20 days in one season, the option will not be charged. That doesn't apply to Ginter as far as I could tell.

If there is another exception, by all means, please share. If I am wrong, I'll be happy to admit it.

Unless I am missing something, each player is allowed three option years. To be optioned a 4th time, waivers is required. That fits Ginter since he was added to the Sox 40-man roster in Sept. 2000.

I am all ears!

fsphog
03-24-2004, 10:30 PM
i believe in 2002 ginter was called down during interleague play - in order for willie harris to go up, and then ginter was called back up - i dont know how much time expired during that, but that could be it - all i know is that ginter hmself has said the sox told him he has another option left.

Rex Hudler
03-25-2004, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by fsphog
i believe in 2002 ginter was called down during interleague play - in order for willie harris to go up, and then ginter was called back up - i dont know how much time expired during that, but that could be it - all i know is that ginter hmself has said the sox told him he has another option left.

Forgive me for doubting you because I can't find the answer. Ginter was in Charlotte from the beginning of the season until May 2 in 2002, which is more than 20 days. He was sent back during June for a short time which is probably what you were referencing. The only thing I can think of is that he was hurt in the spring of 2002 and the time he spent in Charlotte in April was considered rehab and not an optioned assignment. If that were the case, then I can see where 2002 did not count as an option year.

Hell I don't know. I'm still looking. If you get more specifics, let me know. Anything is possible.......

Rex Hudler
03-25-2004, 10:29 AM
fsphog, I got the scoop. You were correct, Ginter does have one more option left and here is why.

There is a new MLB rule that states any player who reaches the Major Leagues within 2 years of signing will have a 4th option. I was told he also has to be under the 6-yr free agent guidelines as well, but I can't think of a scenario where he wouldn't be.

Apparently the rule was changed since the clubs have rights to a player for 6 years, they didn't want to penalize a club for bringing up a player soon after he was signed. This may have been to help clubs who have signed draftees to a Major League contract or guarantee a draftee a September callup. Call it the Wily Mo Pena rule, perhaps?? LOL

I am not sure when the rule was changed and I failed to ask. I couldn't find anything about it in the current Collective Bargaining Agreement, but I didn't scour all 230-something pages of the file either. Since it involves player rights, I would assume that is when it was changed, but that may not be correct.

Thanks for keeping me on my toes. I don't like being wrong, but I like learning something new. LOL