PDA

View Full Version : hawk must go


uribe151
03-22-2004, 04:20 PM
hawk must go

southsidegirl
03-22-2004, 04:32 PM
What are you talking about? Hawk is the friggin' coolest!

:putitontheboard :threadsucks

soltrain21
03-22-2004, 04:32 PM
This thread does suck


Uribe151...HE GONE!

SoxFan76
03-22-2004, 04:33 PM
Wow, your poll is losing big time. Hawk is the man, I don't care what anybody else says.

Brian26
03-22-2004, 04:33 PM
Give me Hawk over any of the generic network guys any day of the week. What an ignorant post.

HebrewHammer
03-22-2004, 04:34 PM
I'm a huge Hawk fan, he just makes the game that much more entertaining, I could listen to him read a phonebook, something that he'd rather do than have to talk to DJ.

SoxFan76
03-22-2004, 04:35 PM
I got a thread for you. DJ must go.

Baby Fisk
03-22-2004, 04:38 PM
Uribe151 -- perhaps if you provide some reasons it might help your cause. Tell us who you'd replace Hawk with.

HAWK FOREVER! Hell, I say BRING BACK WIMPY!

kittle42
03-22-2004, 04:40 PM
Now that's just silly.

Uribe151 - do you have any reasons why you think Hawk must go?

Oh, and is Uribe151 an allusion to Mr. Uribe's 2004 batting average?

jamteh
03-22-2004, 04:40 PM
Even though I fall for it every year and wind up being ultimately disappointed in the team's overall performance, Hawk is the one person who always makes me feel good about the team on the field. No, he's not a completely unbiased source for Sox info, but if you listen closely, you can easily decipher what he's really trying to say. He wasn't so subtle over the last couple of years when it came to bone-headed decisions made by Jerry Manuel.

I hope Hawk's around for a long, long time. He's great.

SoxFan76
03-22-2004, 04:43 PM
He can make every Sox game so much more entertaining. Listen to Chip Caray and then tell me Hawk must go. The emotion he puts out during certain events is just unbelievable.

bennyw41
03-22-2004, 04:45 PM
URIBE151 MUST GO. Lets make that the poll.


:threadsucks

southsidegirl
03-22-2004, 04:49 PM
Just thinking that Hawk is gonna most likely be off the air before I die makes me wanna :whiner: .

Palehose13
03-22-2004, 04:56 PM
Is uribe151 a:

:troll

Yes or no?

DSpivack
03-22-2004, 05:07 PM
I second the nomination to bring back Wimpy. Hawk seems to have something missing without Wimpy by his side.

soxwon
03-22-2004, 05:22 PM
black hawks must go.
is that what you meant?

MarqSox
03-22-2004, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by southsidegirl
Just thinking that Hawk is gonna most likely be off the air before I die makes me wanna :whiner: .
With all due respect to Hawk, considering you're 13, it would be a bigger reason to :whiner: if he WERE still on the air when you die.

poorme
03-22-2004, 05:29 PM
I can't say I love Hawk, but he's probably better than anyone they would replace him with.

He's getting to be like a used car salesman nowadays.....I can't believe anything he says.

Hangar18
03-22-2004, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by poorme

He's getting to be like a used car salesman nowadays.....I can't believe anything he says.

Hey.....leave Bud Selig out of this

guillen4life13
03-22-2004, 05:53 PM
Hawk engages me. And I actually think DJ is a damn good announcer in his own right. Sure, he can get boring, but he knows his baseball.


And instead of saying the Blackhawks should go... The Wirtz Tenure should go.

SoxBoy14
03-22-2004, 05:57 PM
I think it's obvious we want Hawk to stay so lets just let this thread die already.

ChiSox14305635
03-22-2004, 06:10 PM
Count me in for the "Bring back Wimpy" campaign. Though DJ has gotten better with each year.


I miss Big Don Drysdale. May he R.I.P.:whiner:

RedPinStripes
03-22-2004, 06:19 PM
Maybe it's just because i've learned to accept Hawk, but he's grown on me. I didnt like Hawk 5 years ago, but he's part of the Sox to me. If anything, DJ needs to go. Nice, guy, but he sucks. Bring back Whimpy!

Fenway
03-22-2004, 06:25 PM
http://www.bpl.org/store/IMGs/STMedium/tm_st10037.jpg

Bleacher fans at Fenway Park show their displeasure with the Ken Harrelson trade

November 13, 1981
HAWK MAY FLY RED SOX COOP
Author: Jack Craig Globe Staff
Ken Hawk Harrelson could be leaving Red Sox telecasts on Ch. 38 to take the same job with the Chicago White Sox' novel pay cable operation next season.

"Harrelson is one of the two or three finest baseball talents around," Einhorn said today. Among others being considered are Dick Stockton, ex- partner of Harrelson and now at CBS, and Don Drysdale, ABC's baseball broadcaster.
Selection of quality announcers is very important, Einhorn emphasized, because under the pay cable and pay TV plan for Chicago and it suburbs, subscribers will pay up to $21.95 per month for the sports presentations.
Einhorn inherited Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall last season as his broadcasters on conventional TV and radio. Piersall is not likely to return after continual controversy that was topped off by slighting remarks about athletes' wives last summer. Caray also is controversial with his outspoken manner but he may return in 1982.
Harrelson has been in as much hot water with Red Sox officials as Piersall is with the White Sox. Known as "the Hawk" for his beaked nose, Harrelson has been an outspoken critic of the Red Sox. Red Sox co-owner Haywood Sullivan has not spoken to him in almost a year.

RichFitztightly
03-22-2004, 06:41 PM
Wow, I'm in the minority here. But I voted yes. I thought when Hawk was on vacation for his golf outing, that Rooney and DJ did a much better job together than Hawk and DJ. I don't care which one you get rid of, but I think you need at least one play by play man instead of having two color guys in the booth as it is now.

EDIT: Though I gotta say, Hawk's whole "Gay Baseball" references are the reason I don't switch to the radio.

Railsplitter
03-22-2004, 09:01 PM
Keep the Hawk. Those "color" commentators at Fox should go.

lths06
03-22-2004, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Railsplitter
Keep the Hawk. Those "color" commentators at Fox should go.

Man, I cant stand Joe Buck...

ode to veeck
03-22-2004, 09:22 PM
He's getting to be like a used car salesman nowadays.....I can't believe anything he says

He's been like that for 20 years, not just nowadays. My buds and I all have been :whiner: since Hawk's been doin the Sox. It was great to hear Jimmy and Harry again on ECS Sunday.

Can Hawk please kiss JR's butt a little more? No, I don't think its possible.

The worst was when Hawk started doing Sox games with Don Drysdale way back when. Hard to tell which was worse. Still can't stand the Hawk after 20 years. Sorry folks, it's like having Ribbie or Rhubarb in the booth.

LoveTheSox
03-22-2004, 09:34 PM
I can't believe anyone would want to see Hawk go. He can always put a smile on my face when things get ugly, and with our sox things can get that way. I do, however, agree that he was better with Wimpy by his side, DJ is good but he's no Wimpy.

TornLabrum
03-22-2004, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
He's been like that for 20 years, not just nowadays. My buds and I all have been :whiner: since Hawk's been doin the Sox. It was great to hear Jimmy and Harry again on ECS Sunday.

Can Hawk please kiss JR's butt a little more? No, I don't think its possible.

The worst was when Hawk started doing Sox games with Don Drysdale way back when. Hard to tell which was worse. Still can't stand the Hawk after 20 years. Sorry folks, it's like having Ribbie or Rhubarb in the booth.

After hearing Harry and Jimmy on ESPN Classic, it became obvious to me that Hawk and Wimpy were Uncle Jer's attempt to recapture some of the magic. They were never as good, though.

As far as Drysdale and Hawk, can you say "beige"?

uribe151
03-22-2004, 10:10 PM
Can Hawk please kiss JR's butt a little more? No, I don't think its possible.

The worst was when Hawk started doing Sox games with Don Drysdale way back when. Hard to tell which was worse. Still can't stand the Hawk after 20 years. Sorry folks, it's like having Ribbie or Rhubarb in the booth. [/B][/QUOTE]

you hit the nail on the head!
hawk and drysdale were absolute torture...a pair of arrogant bone-headed know-it-alls

the only time drysdale laughed or found anything remotely amusing was when some poor guy would take a shot to the nuts or foul one off his instep...YIPES!!!

that duo was the all-time hall of fame wretchedest

soxnut
03-22-2004, 10:55 PM
Wll I can't say that Hawk and Drysdale were the best, but I thought Don was a nice guy. I got his autograph after a game one night, he was great to everybody. That same night we were waiting for Fisk as well. Drysdale said "well you might be wating awhile, he usually sits in the hot tub for about an hour before he leaves." We waited, and I got his autograph too, both on my ticket stub. :smile:

I loved the combo of Hawk and Wimpy. During the winter I would play a tape of a game from the past season, just so I could hear those two again. Harry and Jimmy were pretty good too. Harry is probably one of the best announcers ever---pre stroke.

mike squires
03-22-2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Give me Hawk over any of the generic network guys any day of the week. What an ignorant post.

Brian~I'm beginning to think we were seperated at birth. I agree 100%. Hawk does have a tendency to get a little dry when things are going wrong but that means he is just like us and is a fan of the Sox. Either the Sox are paying Harrelson handsomly or Hawk has total commitment for the Sox. Considering how many dissapointing seasons he has had to endure, cause if he left he wouldn't be out of a job long. That being said...I really miss Don Drysdale.

BainesHOF
03-22-2004, 11:50 PM
Hawk doesn't need to go, but he's degenerated into an ownership stooge.

I understand who signs his paychecks, but he goes way overboard and has wrecked his credibility. I don't expect him to rip like Harry, but he takes it to the other extreme and makes ridiculous statements to defend management. His Ordonez comment at Soxfest was a classic example of thinking Sox fans are dumb. His statement that we'll be a better defensive team with Harris instead of Alomar at second is insulting to anyone with half a brain.

uribe151
03-23-2004, 12:02 AM
how can you say he doesn't need to go?

why must we tolerate insulting stoogery????????????

it's been non-stop for more than twenty years

HAWK MUST GO!

IA_soxfan
03-23-2004, 12:17 AM
Hawk needs to stay. My earliest memories of sox games involve Hawk doing the calls. I think he was a lot better with Wimpy, though. DJ is a nice guy and carries a wealth of knowledge about the game, but I just get the feeling that there isn't much chemistry between him and hawk.

White_Sock
03-23-2004, 12:42 AM
I second the nomination to bring back Wimpy. Hawk seems to have something missing without Wimpy by his side.

My adolescence is marked by the Hawk/Wimpy era. Hawk rules. The Hawk/DJ combo has grown on me.

When ever I watch a Sox game over satellite feed, I always hope for Hawk/DJ instead of road announcers. It makes the game much more entertaining (not that Sox baseball isn't enough). Come on. Besides Harry Caray, there's no other announcer I'd rather see in the booth. just my $1.25.

jordan23ventura
03-23-2004, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by DSpivack
I second the nomination to bring back Wimpy. Hawk seems to have something missing without Wimpy by his side.


What ever happened to him?

IA_soxfan
03-23-2004, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by jordan23ventura
What ever happened to him?

I don't remember the details, but I'm pretty sure that Uncle Jerry and Co. made a bunch of unreasonable demands that ended up forcing him out the door.

BainesHOF
03-23-2004, 01:13 AM
"how can you say he doesn't need to go?

why must we tolerate insulting stoogery????????????

it's been non-stop for more than twenty years"


I am being a bit inconsistent, ain't I? Let me add then that either Hawk's "stoogery" must stop, and if it doesn't then he must go. I really think he's gone of the deep end to the point of insulting our intelligence only really since he backed the White Flag Trades. Come to think of it now, that it quite awhile ago. Hawk lost me as a big fan back then. I've only tolerated him since because I do enjoy his love of the game. However, in the last year he's become a ridiculous parody.

Veeky
03-23-2004, 01:47 AM
Give me Hawk over any of the generic network guys any day of the week

No kidding.

Kinda makes me wonder what Lip, Xerxes and the rest of the anti-Hawk legion do when they watch games. Just WHAT do they need an announcer for? To tell them the score and update pitch-count in an imperious, disconnected, dime-a-dozen inflection? Guess what, OPEN YOUR GODDAMN EYES and see the game for yourselves. I am over 12 and as such can decide for MYSELF if it's a strike 2 or a ball 2 or an out 2 unassisted.....and would much rather hear Hawk merrily go on myriad tangents and assume the role of a commentator, not a PBP robot.

Oh, I get it -- they want more citicisms of the front office coming out of the booth. Maybe he could make team flight reservations while he's at it.

Hawk is there to entertain us with his old-school Southern gentlemanly charm, with his silly nicknames/Hawkisms and of course his patented storytelling of glories past....and maybe mix in a deep if archaic baseball observation or three. And to get mad at DJ. That's it.

And I find it insulting that John Rooney who gives Sox fans heart-attacks by not being able to read the ball off the bat and who can't tell the difference between a shallow flyball, a long drive twisting foul and a HR when it's hit -- it's ridiculous that a RADIO man who is supposed to be our eyes and ears is BLIND -- has the street cred with Sox fans and can do no wrong......whereas Hawk, who has an EXCEPTIONAL eye and actually knows something about the finer points of the game, is considered to be this homerific caricature/puppet. What a travesty.

Want to get rid of the lethargy? Kick worthless DJ out for starters.

Then again what do I know -- I actually like Bob Costas as a baseball analyst. :cool:

BTW.....I think the fans have spoken. almost 90%. If loving Hawk is wrong, I don't want to be right. He is our Harry C. dammit. :gulp:

White_Sock
03-23-2004, 02:31 AM
Then again what do I know -- I actually like Bob Costas as a baseball analyst.

Whoa! - let's not get crazy here.
:bundy

SSN721
03-23-2004, 06:04 AM
I know I have posted on this subject on other threads before and it is of my opinion that hawk is a part of the team to me. His voice takes me into the game and I love the way he calls games. He is also negative to the organization or the way the team is managed on the field from time to time and if you say he isn't then I just don't think you can pick up the subtle comments he makes during games. He cant possibly expect to keep his job if he were as outspoken about his displeasure of the organization as we are on this message board. I still think some of you expect ridiculous things from someone who is getting paid from the same place you want him to condemn? How many of you do that at your job. You take your paycheck then tell the owner he runs the place like crap? Come on, that is quite unreasonable and I cant stand that argument. His commentary is endearing to me and I would be deeply saddened if the Sox got rid of him to find someone else to do broadcasts. He is part of White Sox Baseball to me.

faneidde
03-23-2004, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by uribe151
how can you say he doesn't need to go?

why must we tolerate insulting stoogery????????????


You don't have to tolerate Hawk, just mute him and listen to the radio, or do what I do in the NCAA tourney when Billy Packer or Dick Vitale is calling a game, mute it and work on your own announcing. Since you're so eager to criticize Hawk, I'd like to ask why some of your posts are, at best, incoherent and, at worst, absurd. How long must we tolerate your stoogery?

soxfan26
03-23-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by faneidde
You don't have to tolerate Hawk, just mute him and listen to the radio, or do what I do in the NCAA tourney when Billy Packer or Dick Vitale is calling a game, mute it and work on your own announcing. Since you're so eager to criticize Hawk, I'd like to ask why some of your posts are, at best, incoherent and, at worst, absurd. How long must we tolerate your stoogery?

This thread is still alive? I doesn't look like anyone has said it in awhile so...

:threadsucks

bennyw41
03-23-2004, 11:35 AM
I like Hawk a lot, but I'm pretty sure he was the main reason for Wimpy leaving. I think he's pretty high maintanence, and wimpy and him fought off the air, instead of on the air like DJ and Hawk.

I remember when he left he said he wanted to be "close to the family", then he got a gig with the braves or something.

The reason why hawk is controversial is because he does play by play, and color, it's hard to find his compliment because he does both jobs.

I like DJ.

uribe151
03-23-2004, 11:37 AM
when you say mute hawk you're talking farmer...unacceptable

by the way, i don't advise you to sit at home with the tv sound off doing the

play by play to yourself...your secret (MENTALCASEISM) might get out!

KingXerxes
03-23-2004, 11:41 AM
Here comes a post that will surprise absolutely nobody:

Dump Harrelson.

I am on record time and time again as saying I find him to be the single biggest problem with the White Sox overall marketing strategy. He has a very narrow appeal, and manages to even turn off some of that by his "lackey-ness" to coin a term. Do we need Chip Caray? Hell no - but there are much better alternatives out there.

uribe151
03-23-2004, 11:46 AM
thank you for a moment of clarity

did you remember to vote?

soxnut
03-23-2004, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
No kidding.

Kinda makes me wonder what Lip, Xerxes and the rest of the anti-Hawk legion do when they watch games. Just WHAT do they need an announcer for? To tell them the score and update pitch-count in an imperious, disconnected, dime-a-dozen inflection? Guess what, OPEN YOUR GODDAMN EYES and see the game for yourselves. I am over 12 and as such can decide for MYSELF if it's a strike 2 or a ball 2 or an out 2 unassisted.....and would much rather hear Hawk merrily go on myriad tangents and assume the role of a commentator, not a PBP robot.

Oh, I get it -- they want more citicisms of the front office coming out of the booth. Maybe he could make team flight reservations while he's at it.

Hawk is there to entertain us with his old-school Southern gentlemanly charm, with his silly nicknames/Hawkisms and of course his patented storytelling of glories past....and maybe mix in a deep if archaic baseball observation or three. And to get mad at DJ. That's it.

And I find it insulting that John Rooney who gives Sox fans heart-attacks by not being able to read the ball off the bat and who can't tell the difference between a shallow flyball, a long drive twisting foul and a HR when it's hit -- it's ridiculous that a RADIO man who is supposed to be our eyes and ears is BLIND -- has the street cred with Sox fans and can do no wrong......whereas Hawk, who has an EXCEPTIONAL eye and actually knows something about the finer points of the game, is considered to be this homerific caricature/puppet. What a travesty.

Want to get rid of the lethargy? Kick worthless DJ out for starters.

Then again what do I know -- I actually like Bob Costas as a baseball analyst. :cool:

BTW.....I think the fans have spoken. almost 90%. If loving Hawk is wrong, I don't want to be right. He is our Harry C. dammit. :gulp:


Ditto...except about the Rooney comments :smile:

White_Sock
03-23-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally post by KingXerxes
He has a very narrow appeal, and manages to even turn off some of that by his "lackey-ness" to coin a term .

86% of the vote here says Hawk's appeal isn't "narrow."

soxnut
03-23-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by SSN721
I know I have posted on this subject on other threads before and it is of my opinion that hawk is a part of the team to me. His voice takes me into the game and I love the way he calls games. He is also negative to the organization or the way the team is managed on the field from time to time and if you say he isn't then I just don't think you can pick up the subtle comments he makes during games. He cant possibly expect to keep his job if he were as outspoken about his displeasure of the organization as we are on this message board. I still think some of you expect ridiculous things from someone who is getting paid from the same place you want him to condemn? How many of you do that at your job. You take your paycheck then tell the owner he runs the place like crap? Come on, that is quite unreasonable and I cant stand that argument. His commentary is endearing to me and I would be deeply saddened if the Sox got rid of him to find someone else to do broadcasts. He is part of White Sox Baseball to me.


You got that right...................Amen brother!!!!!!!!!! :D:

BainesHOF
03-23-2004, 12:35 PM
"Oh, I get it -- they want more citicisms of the front office coming out of the booth."

Wrong! You missed my point completely.

I don't expect Hawk to be very critical, though he's one of the few announcers who could get away with it but fails to take advantage of his stature. I just don't want Hawk to tell me bad = good and Harris is better than Alomar and also deliberately misrepresent the Ordonez negotiating situation to make his uncle Jerry look better.

jabrch
03-23-2004, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
BTW.....I think the fans have spoken. almost 90%. If loving Hawk is wrong, I don't want to be right. He is our Harry C. dammit. :gulp:

Actually, isn't Harry Caray OUR Harry Caray?

Brian26
03-23-2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by BainesHOF
[BI just don't want Hawk to tell me bad = good and Harris is better than Alomar and also deliberately misrepresent the Ordonez negotiating situation to make his uncle Jerry look better. [/B]

I assume you're referring to the "He Gawn" remarks at Soxfest? I thought Hawk was refreshingly candid on that night, and if anything, he gave us an honest view of the situation.

Veeky
03-23-2004, 01:18 PM
I know I have posted on this subject on other threads before and it is of my opinion that hawk is a part of the team to me. His voice takes me into the game and I love the way he calls games.

Good Point #1

He is also negative to the organization or the way the team is managed on the field from time to time and if you say he isn't then I just don't think you can pick up the subtle comments he makes during games .

Good Point #2

Subtle is the key word. When Hawk is in his "mad at the crappy management " OR "what the **** is this Sox player doing ot there " mode -- his pauses and vocal inflections and body language (when on TV) change in a very distinct familiar way. It's both hilarious and poignant and Sox fans who aren't total morons know IMMEDIATELY when he is displeased.

He cant possibly expect to keep his job if he were as outspoken about his displeasure of the organization as we are on this message board. I still think some of you expect ridiculous things from someone who is getting paid from the same place you want him to condemn? How many of you do that at your job. You take your paycheck then tell the owner he runs the place like crap?

Good Point #3. I can see Steve Stone right now calling out a Random Tribune Exec to the mat on the air circa 1999.

Used car salesman my ASS.

His commentary is endearing .

Endearing is the right word. He knows the game as well as anyone. (Which, strangely enough, doesn't mean he will be a successful GM as the position calls upon other qualities and depends on the financial circumstances out of one's control.)
He loves the game as much as anyone. Just listen to him over a few broadcasts and those two conclusions are
self-evident. He has a unique demeanor and personality and sense of humor. Old-school and not everyone's cup of tea I realize that.....Works for me.

Now, he COULD be more enthusiastic, but then again I am GLAD he isn't -- 2001-2003 seasons have been a black-hole of mediocrity and heartbreaking disappontement for me personally and I am glad he didn't even bother to pretty it up........Still, when Frank Thomas hit that homer against Twins and when Miguel Olivo hit that 1st inning blooping 2-run single just out of Stewart's reach in September, Hawk almost had hear attack. It was GREAT.

DJ has GOT to go, though. He brings nothing to the table and Hawk is simply not good enough to carry the whole broadcast every damn day.

Veeky
03-23-2004, 01:46 PM
just don't want Hawk to tell me bad = good and Harris is better than Alomar and also deliberately misrepresent the Ordonez negotiating situation to make his uncle Jerry look better

Alomar was a 650 OPS player who lost 2 steps on the pads, whose range up the middle was laughable last year AND whose arm is only average now. With the Sox, Robbie was a deeply MEDIOCRE player and had NO effect on Jose Valentin's improving defense -- Jose was already on a 1-error-in-15-games hot streak when Robbie came over and this improvement can only be attributed to coach Santana revamping Jose's footwork/attitude back in early May after Jose committed a ****load of errors in first 6 weeks of the season..

So, yeah, DEFENSIVELY and on the basepaths Willie is a SUPERIOR player to Robbie and if he could translate his AAA (one that produced a stunning OPS last year) approach at the plate to the major leagues, I guess I agree with Hawk in that he COULD muster a 700 OPS and thus indeed be a slightly better player than a washed-up Robbie......Now, my opinion has changed for the worse since this spring began and I no longer think Harris is a ML player, but when Hawk was talking him up, there was nothing unreasonable being said. Things change, Willie did not step up. He is a AAAA'er. Big deal.

And Magglio Ordonez? He wants 5 year-70/75 Mill a year payola. The ONLY time in his career that he came CLOSE to that kind of production was 2002 when he was padding his numbers while the Sox were 15 games out of 1st place ala Albert Belle.

Magglio has 890 career OPS, with average speed and only slightly-above-average defense in RF. He is 30+. Furtheremore, ever since he won that bloody HR Derby and ever since Boston Gammons has been building him up as a sleeper MVP, Magglio's took turn for the worse swing-wise. And he is having a miserable spring so far.

Are you people that clueless that you don't realize that giving him 25 % of the entire payroll is extremely ill-advised? He is not Bonds. He is not A-Rod. He is not even Sosa. For a supposed superstar, he has very limited merchandise and media appeal.

Giving Bartolo Colon (who barely mustered a 3.90 ERA pitching in one fo the worst-hitting divisions in baseball history, the guy whose breaking pitches are non-existent and who is so out of shape his back may give out at ANY time) almost 13 Mill a year over 4 years was crazy -- and at least Angels had a respectable payroll that could swallow such salary.................. And unless Magglio has a 1050 OPS with 140 RBI this season, let him leave. Hopefully one of Reed/Rowand/Borchard will be able to fit in RF at league minimum in 2005.

Maggs wants to test FA and get BIG money over LONG period of time. It's a nationally-accepted FACT. Blaming Hawk for this is silly.

KingXerxes
03-23-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by White_Sock
86% of the vote here says Hawk's appeal isn't "narrow."

86% of the vote - HERE!

C'mon White_Sock, do you really think that all of the posters on this board are "average White Sox fans"? I've got news for you, most "average White Sox fans" haven't even started thinking about the season yet. These boards are full of die-hards (who Harrelson appeals to) who post on Christmas Day.

Again, I ask why everybody wrings their hands over and over again that the Cubs are quick becoming the only team in Chicago and then refuse to look right at their #1 media/advertising spokesman over the past twenty years and see any deficiency?

KingXerxes
03-23-2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
No kidding.

Kinda makes me wonder what Lip, Xerxes and the rest of the anti-Hawk legion do when they watch games. Just WHAT do they need an announcer for? To tell them the score and update pitch-count in an imperious, disconnected, dime-a-dozen inflection? Guess what, OPEN YOUR GODDAMN EYES and see the game for yourselves. I am over 12 and as such can decide for MYSELF if it's a strike 2 or a ball 2 or an out 2 unassisted.....and would much rather hear Hawk merrily go on myriad tangents and assume the role of a commentator, not a PBP robot.

Oh, I get it -- they want more citicisms of the front office coming out of the booth. Maybe he could make team flight reservations while he's at it.

Hawk is there to entertain us with his old-school Southern gentlemanly charm, with his silly nicknames/Hawkisms and of course his patented storytelling of glories past....and maybe mix in a deep if archaic baseball observation or three. And to get mad at DJ. That's it.

And I find it insulting that John Rooney who gives Sox fans heart-attacks by not being able to read the ball off the bat and who can't tell the difference between a shallow flyball, a long drive twisting foul and a HR when it's hit -- it's ridiculous that a RADIO man who is supposed to be our eyes and ears is BLIND -- has the street cred with Sox fans and can do no wrong......whereas Hawk, who has an EXCEPTIONAL eye and actually knows something about the finer points of the game, is considered to be this homerific caricature/puppet. What a travesty.

Want to get rid of the lethargy? Kick worthless DJ out for starters.

Then again what do I know -- I actually like Bob Costas as a baseball analyst. :cool:

BTW.....I think the fans have spoken. almost 90%. If loving Hawk is wrong, I don't want to be right. He is our Harry C. dammit. :gulp:

I'll tell you exactly what I do when I watch games - I shut off the sound or turn on the radio. Why you may ask? What is it about Harrelson that I just can't stand? Okay here are a few examples:

I don't want to hear Harrelson's "expertise" going on and on about how Hank Aaron was one of the best defensive outfielders in the history of the game - He wasn't. I don't want to hear how Tony Graffanino is one of the best players in the major leagues in breaking up double plays - It's not verifiable. I don't want to hear about how Jeff Nelson for his entire career has had pin point control - He hasn't. I don't want to hear about some 33 year old .220 hitting rookie as being "just around the corner"

I'm sorry, I tried - but there is no way I can sit like a slack jawed idiot nodding my head in agreement with everything this guy throws out as "expertise" - It's not.

uribe151
03-23-2004, 02:43 PM
the sox are a second-fiddle small market team in one of the biggest and greatest cities in the world...
THANK YOU KINGX for analyzing the issue from the essential MARKETING aspect

...i remenber hawk as a player; HE WAS A HOLY TERROR for a
substantial time. but like jack brickhouse and bob drees and curt gowdy and lou brock and many others, hawk is a good guy but a terrible baseball broadcaster. his tenure is one of many complex forces currently killing the sox and sox fans. jr is to blame, of course, for the emergence and vitality of these forces, as will be discussed later.

GOOD REASONS HAWK MUST GO:
1. phony expertise.
creates and uses gibberish to say stupid things, like a guy "is one of the better 3-0, 3-1
hitters in the league". OK..let's see...that means this batter in in the upper 50%
of all the players in the american league in this favorable situation.
is that true?
how would one disprove it?
so what? in other words, it is statistically irrelevant.
WHY SAY THIS?? WHY CONSTANTLY SAY THESE idiotic THINGS with that well-practiced
autoritarian air...to be continued

Fridaythe13thJason
03-23-2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
the sox are a second-fiddle small market team in one of the biggest and greatest cities in the world...
THANK YOU KINGX for analyzing the issue from the essential MARKETING aspect

...i remenber hawk as a player; HE WAS A HOLY TERROR for a
substantial time. but like jack brickhouse and bob drees and curt gowdy and lou brock and many others, hawk is a good guy but a terrible baseball broadcaster. his tenure is one of many complex forces currently killing the sox and sox fans. jr is to blame, of course, for the emergence and vitality of these forces, as will be discussed later.

GOOD REASONS HAWK MUST GO:
1. phony expertise.
creates and uses gibberish to say stupid things, like a guy "is one of the better 3-0, 3-1
hitters in the league". OK..let's see...that means this batter in in the upper 50%
of all the players in the american league in this favorable situation.
is that true?
how would one disprove it?
so what? in other words, it is statistically irrelevant.
WHY SAY THIS?? WHY CONSTANTLY SAY THESE idiotic THINGS with that well-practiced
autoritarian air...to be continued

Actually, its easily statistically provable...look at averges, OBP, OPS on hitters 3 ball counts. It's simple baseball. Not the most average stat used, but it does exist.

uribe151
03-23-2004, 03:34 PM
2. eerily, absurdly, never ever mentions that HE WAS THE GENERAL MANAGER
OF THE CHICAGO WHITE SOX. it's a blow to his ego to bring it up , of course ,(major fiasco), but it is too weird that he never mentions it.
3. gives too many dumb nicknames and always with a subtle negative or snide element, eg.:
one dog...why call a man a dog?
el caballo...native speakers of spanish (like C Lee) have advised me that in that language, this is not that hot of a nickname
big hurt...hurt whom? what does "hurt" have to do with baseball?
feisty...notice dj never says this, it's a left-handed compliment, at best...i say thank god darrin jackson is not cowed into going along with all of hawk's nonsense
wimpy...notice tom paciorek never said this...his nickname was "DUKE" before he met the hawkster...tom p is no wimp!!!!(bring him back)
4.paciorek was and is the anti-hawk; sincere, laid back, knowledgeable- A FUN PERSON TO ENJOY THE GAME WITH...AND FOR THIS HE WAS TOTALLY JACKED AROUND BY HAWK
5.i've heard hawk speak freely about and admit many times that he (AND HE ALLEGES OTHER BIG LEAGUERS) routinely cheated by using corked bats, intentionally tossing fat pitches,etc...like most of hawks stuff, i disbelieve.I NEVER HEAR ANY OTHERMAJOR LEAGUERS say this; but he passes it of as it were acceptable...to be continued

Veeky
03-23-2004, 03:41 PM
Again, I ask why everybody wrings their hands over and over again that the Cubs are quick becoming the only team in Chicago and then refuse to look right at their #1 media/advertising spokesman over the past twenty years and see any deficiency?

Do you want me to be honest or do you want to hear what you want to hear and make illogical conclusions that Grandpa Hawk Harrelson is reponsible for our deteriorating fan-base?

You don't want the truth about remarkably unloyal Sox fans whose RIDICULOUS sense of entitlement is only matched by their tight wallets......You don't want to hear about 95-wiin team barely drawing 1.9 Mill DESPITE having a ton of half price/free ticket promotions and cheap prices......I will stop now before I tell you what I really think.

ETA: I by no means want to let oft-short-sighted Chairman and his PR underling bozos off the hook. I am just pointing out that the reality is FAR more complex/gray-aread and that Hawk Harrelson, while not a big an asset as some assert, is one of the LEAST problems this sorry organization is facing.

Fridaythe13thJason
03-23-2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
2. eerily, absurdly, never ever mentions that HE WAS THE GENERAL MANAGER
OF THE CHICAGO WHITE SOX. it's a blow to his ego to bring it up , of course ,(major fiasco), but it is too weird that he never mentions it.
3. gives too many dumb nicknames and always with a subtle negative or snide element, eg.:
one dog...why call a man a dog?
el caballo...native speakers of spanish (like C Lee) have advised me that in that language, this is not that hot of a nickname
big hurt...hurt whom? what does "hurt" have to do with baseball?
feisty...notice dj never says this, it's a left-handed compliment, at best...i say thank god darrin jackson is not cowed into going along with all of hawk's nonsense
wimpy...notice tom paciorek never said this...his nickname was "DUKE" before he met the hawkster...tom p is no wimp!!!!(bring him back)
4.paciorek was and is the anti-hawk; sincere, laid back, knowledgeable- A FUN PERSON TO ENJOY THE GAME WITH...AND FOR THIS HE WAS TOTALLY JACKED AROUND BY HAWK
5.i've heard hawk speak freely about and admit many times that he (AND HE ALLEGES OTHER BIG LEAGUERS) routinely cheated by using corked bats, intentionally tossing fat pitches,etc...like most of hawks stuff, i disbelieve.I NEVER HEAR ANY OTHERMAJOR LEAGUERS say this; but he passes it of as it were acceptable...to be continued

Are you going to give up yet? Clearly no one agrees with you. Check the poll numbers.

KingXerxes
03-23-2004, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
the sox are a second-fiddle small market team in one of the biggest and greatest cities in the world...
THANK YOU KINGX for analyzing the issue from the essential MARKETING aspect

...i remenber hawk as a player; HE WAS A HOLY TERROR for a
substantial time. but like jack brickhouse and bob drees and curt gowdy and lou brock and many others, hawk is a good guy but a terrible baseball broadcaster. his tenure is one of many complex forces currently killing the sox and sox fans. jr is to blame, of course, for the emergence and vitality of these forces, as will be discussed later.

GOOD REASONS HAWK MUST GO:
1. phony expertise.
creates and uses gibberish to say stupid things, like a guy "is one of the better 3-0, 3-1
hitters in the league". OK..let's see...that means this batter in in the upper 50%
of all the players in the american league in this favorable situation.
is that true?
how would one disprove it?
so what? in other words, it is statistically irrelevant.
WHY SAY THIS?? WHY CONSTANTLY SAY THESE idiotic THINGS with that well-practiced
autoritarian air...to be continued

First off I think Curt Gowdy was a great broadcaster.

The stats you use as an example ARE verifiable. If he would stick to an occasional verifiable stat then fine - I'd have no issue along these lines. Where I have a problem is when he says,

:hawk

"Mel Stottlemeyer had the most fluid delivery when tossing the ball back to first to keep a runner close than anybody else I've ever seen."

OR

:hawk

"There is no player who turns the concentration dial up in this league - with two strikes on him - better than Carlos Lee. Reminds me of the way Musial played."

You can sit at home and accept these assertions as fact if you choose, I frankly don't care, but I don't. Couple that with the fact that 98% of those watching on television never saw Mel Stottlemeyer, and 75% of those had never even heard of him and you can see what my problems with him are.

Also - not everybody needs a nickname. The endearing thing about nicknames is that only a few guys have them and there is usually a story behind them, and the story is not "The announcer gave it to me."

indysoxfan
03-23-2004, 03:45 PM
not directed at anybody.... but if you dont like hawk, then there is probably something wrong with you :D:

Fridaythe13thJason
03-23-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by indysoxfan
not directed at anybody.... but if you dont like hawk, then there is probably something wrong with you :D:

I agree in a sense...is there better? probably. But if you've ever had the DirecTV or mlb.tv packages and listened to other announcers, you would love Hawk being around.

poorme
03-23-2004, 03:51 PM
I agree with pretty much everything KingX has said, but he's better than the generic-guy-right-out-of-broadcasting-school they would replace him with.

uribe151
03-23-2004, 03:53 PM
as a real white sox fan i've had it wth hawk's eccentric mediocrity, especially because
it all stems from REINSEY"S MACHINATIONS

jr likes the idiotic and fringe-popular hawk because, unlike his predecessor,
HARRY CAREY, (WHO LASTED ONE YEAR FOPR REINSEY) he will never have any sway with the public

or, to put it another way, CAN YOU SEE HARRY CAREY AS A STOOGE?

REINSEY couldn't either...and that's why hawk stays


THANK YOU, SOX FANS, FOR LETTING ME GET THIS OFF MY CHEST!

go go sox!!

KingXerxes
03-23-2004, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
To you want to be honest or do you want to hear what you want to hear and make illogical conclusions that Grandpa Hawk Harrelson is reponsible for our deteriorating fan-base?

You don't want the truth about remarkably disloyal Sox fans whose RIDICULOUS sense of entitlement is only matched by their tight wallets......You don't want to hear about 95-wiin team barely drawing 1.9 Mill DESPITE having a ton of half price/free ticket promotions and cheap prices......I will stop now before I tell you what I really think.

Is Ken Harrelson solely responsible for deteriorating awareness of the White Sox. Nope - and I never said he was. I think the biggest detriment to the White Sox fan base is that it's flat out too expensive to go to games. That being said, the White Sox need to look at every aspect of their organization and get it up and operating smoothly - yet they never seem to look at Harrelson. I think the entire marketing end of this club is stale and that includes the broadcasters.

Harry Caray brought guys out to the park when he was an announcer. Listening to him even when the White Sox were losing was an enjoyable event. He said what was on his mind, and he was able to do so in a manner where he kept his job. My problem with Harrelson is not his prolonged silences when the White Sox mess up - it's with the fact that a prolonged silence is a half measure. Either quit acting so emotional and pulling back, or go the whole nine yards and say what you've got to say. Would I expect him to blast his employer? Not unless he were looking to get fired - so quit acting like "Boy if I weren't gonna get fired I'd really like to............" because everybody on the planet knows you're not going to follow through.

Also, I can't stand the tag-lines that seem to develope every couple of years. Brickhouse had "Hey Hey" for forty years, Caray and Rizzuto had "Holy Cow", man even Milo Hamilton has stuck it out with "Holy Toledo" and "Whirling Dervish" for almost fifty years. This guy's shelf life for a tag-line is about 24 months. Some say he's keeping it fresh, I say he's keeping it contrived.

soltrain21
03-23-2004, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
2. eerily, absurdly, never ever mentions that HE WAS THE GENERAL MANAGER
OF THE CHICAGO WHITE SOX. it's a blow to his ego to bring it up , of course ,(major fiasco), but it is too weird that he never mentions it.
3. gives too many dumb nicknames and always with a subtle negative or snide element, eg.:
one dog...why call a man a dog?
el caballo...native speakers of spanish (like C Lee) have advised me that in that language, this is not that hot of a nickname
big hurt...hurt whom? what does "hurt" have to do with baseball?
feisty...notice dj never says this, it's a left-handed compliment, at best...i say thank god darrin jackson is not cowed into going along with all of hawk's nonsense
wimpy...notice tom paciorek never said this...his nickname was "DUKE" before he met the hawkster...tom p is no wimp!!!!(bring him back)
4.paciorek was and is the anti-hawk; sincere, laid back, knowledgeable- A FUN PERSON TO ENJOY THE GAME WITH...AND FOR THIS HE WAS TOTALLY JACKED AROUND BY HAWK
5.i've heard hawk speak freely about and admit many times that he (AND HE ALLEGES OTHER BIG LEAGUERS) routinely cheated by using corked bats, intentionally tossing fat pitches,etc...like most of hawks stuff, i disbelieve.I NEVER HEAR ANY OTHERMAJOR LEAGUERS say this; but he passes it of as it were acceptable...to be continued



You were grasping on to one last straw and it just went away.

poorme
03-23-2004, 04:00 PM
The problem isn't that he won't criticize JR, it's that he won't criticize the players/managers when it should be done. That's his job! Tell us the truth. We can handle the truth!!!

KingXerxes
03-23-2004, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by poorme
I agree with pretty much everything KingX has said, but he's better than the generic-guy-right-out-of-broadcasting-school they would replace him with.

Congrats for being able to stand up against the torrent.

Obviously you wouldn't replace Harrelson with something worse, but why is everybody convinced that if they canned Harrelson that we would get a Chip Caray?

I guarantee you that there are a multitude of great announcers out there who would line up for the White Sox job. I guarantee it, but the organization will never take the chance.

TornLabrum
03-23-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
2. eerily, absurdly, never ever mentions that HE WAS THE GENERAL MANAGER
OF THE CHICAGO WHITE SOX. it's a blow to his ego to bring it up , of course ,(major fiasco), but it is too weird that he never mentions it.

He mentioned it during SoxFest.

pudge
03-23-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Congrats for being able to stand up against the torrent.

Obviously you wouldn't replace Harrelson with something worse, but why is everybody convinced that if they canned Harrelson that we would get a Chip Caray?

I guarantee you that there are a multitude of great announcers out there who would line up for the White Sox job. I guarantee it, but the organization will never take the chance.

KingX, I can appreciate the minority stand, but who exactly are these great announcers we can get? I think you are seriously delusional if you think it would be easy to replace Hawk... they've tried to replace Wimpy, and failed miserably.

I agree that Hawk tends to kiss some players' butts once in a while, and defends the organization, but he's also critical of the organization too.

I've listened to just about every broadcast teams thanks to DirectTv, and few are as entertaining as what Hawk brings to the table.

TornLabrum
03-23-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Also, I can't stand the tag-lines that seem to develope every couple of years. Brickhouse had "Hey Hey" for forty years, Caray and Rizzuto had "Holy Cow", man even Milo Hamilton has stuck it out with "Holy Toledo" and "Whirling Dervish" for almost fifty years. This guy's shelf life for a tag-line is about 24 months. Some say he's keeping it fresh, I say he's keeping it contrived.

I think "You can put it on the boooooaaarrrrddddd, YESSSS!" has been around a little longer than two years.

TornLabrum
03-23-2004, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by poorme
The problem isn't that he won't criticize JR, it's that he won't criticize the players/managers when it should be done. That's his job! Tell us the truth. We can handle the truth!!!

:reinsy

"You want the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

Veeky
03-23-2004, 04:38 PM
I'm sorry, I tried - but there is no way I can sit like a slack jawed idiot nodding my head in agreement with everything this guy throws out as "expertise" - It's not.

Exaggeration is the enemy of truth. Being anal-retentive doesn't help either.

You bring up a few contestable examples where Hawk was going out on the limb and base your entire arguement that Hawk is an incompetent phony on them.

Well, Graffanino WAS a hard-nosed player. It's a fact. Whether he was THE best or top 10 in breaking up the DP is irrelevant -- that's where the SUBJECTIVE comes in.

Jeff Nelson is a nasty reliever. Period.

And Henry Aaron was in his prime a truly underrated fielder. It's not as if Hawk is trying to sell you on Brian Daubach here....My god.

And you know what, Xerxes? For every example YOU bring up, I can bring up FIVE reasonable theories/ideas/characterizations that attest to Hawk knowing what the hell he is talking about. re: baserunning; re: Yaz; re: Brett; reL Bonds re: Thomas re: Robbie; re: Aaron; re: Griffey re: art of bunting......and literally countless others.

You chose to concentrate on some of the controvesial things he said such as Dalkowski and Sam McDowell topping 100mph -- but how far off from the truth is it? They threw VERY hard by ALL accounts. I know if I were a kid, I would have LOVED to hear Hawk mention something I wasn't alive to witness.

I am sorry, but this character assasination of Grandpa Hawk has got to stop. You may be too smart/erudite to listen to his home-grown wisdoms and theories and peculiar humor, but many, MANY people aren't. Try to understand that. I willl take Hawk's strenghts over Hawk's weaknesses ANY day -- and I am as far from being a homer as it gets. Or so I'd like to think anyway.

oldcomiskey
03-23-2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
86% of the vote - HERE!

C'mon White_Sock, do you really think that all of the posters on this board are "average White Sox fans"? I've got news for you, most "average White Sox fans" haven't even started thinking about the season yet. These boards are full of die-hards (who Harrelson appeals to) who post on Christmas Day.

Again, I ask why everybody wrings their hands over and over again that the Cubs are quick becoming the only team in Chicago and then refuse to look right at their #1 media/advertising spokesman over the past twenty years and see any deficiency?

I wasnt gonna say anything up til now---how do you know that your numbers are right King-------you said that you dont want to hear hyperbole and then you gas us with some yourself

TheRockinMT
03-23-2004, 05:22 PM
I'd rather have Hawk as the play-by-play guy then the GM again.

Veeky
03-23-2004, 05:23 PM
"There is no player who turns the concentration dial up in this league - with two strikes on him - better than Carlos Lee. Reminds me of the way Musial played."

It's a given that Carlos is a dumb if ballsy player. Few years ago Caballo was AWFUL on 2-0 counts and yet did remarkably well on 1-2/2-2 counts. Back in 2000, the reason why he drove so many rus in from the 7th slot is because he was absolutely fearless -- he didn't care if it were two strikes.

He also absolutely smoked RHP last season, but it was LHP who gave him a ton of trouble.

Carlos, in short, is an enigma inside a riddle wrapped in a buritto.

Don't flagelate Hawk for noticing it, albeit in his patented and unnecessary "best I ever saw"way.

Veeky
03-23-2004, 05:36 PM
My problem with Harrelson is not his prolonged silences when the White Sox mess up - it's with the fact that a prolonged silence is a half measure. Either quit acting so emotional and pulling back, or go the whole nine yards and say what you've got to say. Would I expect him to blast his employer? Not unless he were looking to get fired - so quit acting like "Boy if I weren't gonna get fired I'd really like to............" because everybody on the planet knows you're not going to follow through.

Point well taken, but I disagree.

I'd rather he HALF do it to let ME (or rather some other youngster) know that he is extremely pissed off rather than he just flick on Joe Buckinator3000 and suppress his emotions completely.

It's not a "either go all the way or be a nice little lackey" proposition. Why should it be?

You know there is a reason why JR will never have John Rooney as his TV voice....

RichFitztightly
03-23-2004, 05:51 PM
I think the whole issue here is that Hawk is an acquired taste. I had a few relatives from Seattle here and they watched a broadcast and after a couple of innings, their response was, "What the heck is this?" I don't remember who they were playing but he already did a couple of 20 minute silent stretches.

I love his stories, I always find them interesting. His nicknames are endearing. The only problem I have is that he's a color man "doing" play by play. For the first couple of months, DJ was only able to muster, "MmmmmmHmmmmm" as a response to anything Hawk would say. Hawk always seems to over-power the broadcast by doing both play by play and his own color commentary. DJ does much better when he's with somebody else, therefore, if anyone should go it's gotta be Hawk. I don't think there's anybody that would work well with Hawk, he's that overpowering in the booth.

ode to veeck
03-23-2004, 06:57 PM
I think the whole issue here is that Hawk is an acquired taste.

I just don't think we should have to acquire the taste, and I for one, certainly haven't, even after 20 years. I wouda much rather kept Pacoriak, who helped lead the Sox to a divisional title, than the bland, pain vanilla, kiss__ Hawk, not even to mention the 20 minues silences or times when he's not following the game at all.

Even if Harry had the score wrong, he thought he was following the game and did it with enthusiasm.

To those that say, there are no good announcers out there, or we'd get some worthless kid out of broadcast school---why are you soooooo determined to accept the mediocre!? Yah chimp would suck, but can't we find local enthusiastic folks in the great Chicago traditions of Harry, Jimmy, Lloyd Petit, Johnny Kerr, etc. How about Guido & RPS?! Cmon, stop accepting 2nd rate crap!

Veeky
03-23-2004, 09:22 PM
I wouda much rather kept Pacoriak, who helped lead the Sox to a divisional title,

Something that has NOTHING to do with his abilities as a broadcaster/announcer.

than the bland, pain vanilla, kiss__ Hawk,

Hawk is a lot of things, but bland, vanilla inter-changeability is not one of them. And his ass-kissing has been greatly exaggerated -- he is no worse than most TV announcers these days -- concentrate on the good and overlook the bad unless it's impossible -- the Neal Cottsgate for example.

not even to mention the 20 minues silences or times when he's not following the game at all.

He freely admits he sometimes (not as a rule) lets the viewer see the game without having to provide constant back-ground noise -- I do NOT want Ed Farmer-ian detours into which pun goes with what suit.

A pause is your FRIEND. Say it with me.

pudge
03-23-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by ode to veeck


To those that say, there are no good announcers out there, or we'd get some worthless kid out of broadcast school---why are you soooooo determined to accept the mediocre!? Yah chimp would suck, but can't we find local enthusiastic folks in the great Chicago traditions of Harry, Jimmy, Lloyd Petit, Johnny Kerr, etc. How about Guido & RPS?! Cmon, stop accepting 2nd rate crap!

I would hardly call Harry, Jimmy or Johnny Red Kerr outstanding broadcasters.... they each had annoying tendancies just as Hawk has. I think Hawk fits perfectly into this vain, if in his own peculiar way.

pudge
03-23-2004, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by
I think the whole issue here is that Hawk is an acquired taste. I had a few relatives from Seattle here and they watched a broadcast and after a couple of innings, their response was, "What the heck is this?" I don't remember who they were playing but he already did a couple of 20 minute silent stretches.



That's really funny, because I cannot stand Seattle broadcasts, and I've listened to hundreds of them... Dave Niehaus is a legend in Seattle, yet he's a total homer and doesn't give much insight into the game. Rick Rizz is another Mariners broadcaster (ironically from the southside of Chicago) and he is the sappiest, cheesiest, biggest homer I have ever listened to in my life.

So the bottom line is, there are going to be issues with just about everyone. You either adapt to the style or you turn off the sound, much like I do whenever playing a baseball video game.

soxnut
03-23-2004, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by pudge
That's really funny, because I cannot stand Seattle broadcasts, and I've listened to hundreds of them... Dave Niehaus is a legend in Seattle, yet he's a total homer and doesn't give much insight into the game. Rick Rizz is another Mariners broadcaster (ironically from the southside of Chicago) and he is the sappiest, cheesiest, biggest homer I have ever listened to in my life.

So the bottom line is, there are going to be issues with just about everyone. You either adapt to the style or you turn off the sound, much like I do whenever playing a baseball video game.


I agree, there is always something someone is not going to like about an announcer. But I say, if there's any anouncer that should never be allowed to broadcast it's Dan Schulman on ESPN...let's start a thread about getting rid of him!!!!!!!!!!

Veeky
03-23-2004, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by pudge
I would hardly call Harry, Jimmy or Johnny Red Kerr outstanding broadcasters.... they each had annoying tendancies just as Hawk has. I think Hawk fits perfectly into this vain, if in his own peculiar way.

I can live with that.

Any candidates for DJ's spot, though?

Daver
03-23-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
I can live with that.

Any candidates for DJ's spot, though?


Scott Bertram

Kuzman
03-23-2004, 11:12 PM
how bout Jerry Manuel? :D:

Veeky
03-23-2004, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Scott Bertram

Serisously?

RichFitztightly
03-24-2004, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by pudge
That's really funny, because I cannot stand Seattle broadcasts, and I've listened to hundreds of them... Dave Niehaus is a legend in Seattle, yet he's a total homer and doesn't give much insight into the game. Rick Rizz is another Mariners broadcaster (ironically from the southside of Chicago) and he is the sappiest, cheesiest, biggest homer I have ever listened to in my life.

So the bottom line is, there are going to be issues with just about everyone. You either adapt to the style or you turn off the sound, much like I do whenever playing a baseball video game.

Isn't Wimpy a broadcaster for Seattle now? I know I was drunk, but I'm certain it was him calling Mariners games.

bouldersox
03-24-2004, 10:20 AM
I'd love to see Ken Harrelson "grab some bench".

He was nothin' as a player (don't you get the feeling he'd drop the Sox like a hot potato if he was offered the bat boy job with Boston?), he was nothin' as a color guy, he was infamously stupid as a gm, and he is an empty tin can as the lead broadcast guy.

he is jerry reinsdorf's answer to jerry krause with the bulls.

If you think ken harrellson is good for the sox, then you think jerry reinsdorf is good for the sox. enough said.

petekat
03-24-2004, 10:24 AM
agree with BoulderSox-

Hawk- He gone.

Fridaythe13thJason
03-24-2004, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by bouldersox
I'd love to see Ken Harrelson "grab some bench".

He was nothin' as a player (don't you get the feeling he'd drop the Sox like a hot potato if he was offered the bat boy job with Boston?), he was nothin' as a color guy, he was infamously stupid as a gm, and he is an empty tin can as the lead broadcast guy.

he is jerry reinsdorf's answer to jerry krause with the bulls.

If you think ken harrellson is good for the sox, then you think jerry reinsdorf is good for the sox. enough said.

What are you talking about? What does his playing career have to do with being an announcer?

And to everyone on this thread saying things like this about "being good" or "being bad" for the Sox...what does the TV announcer have to do with anything?

You're free to hate his style of calling a ball game, I don't care, but I don't understand why anyone thinks he is more than that. Sure he acts as a mouthpiece on some local shows, but he's not a decision maker, he's not all that important.

KingXerxes
03-24-2004, 11:02 AM
I will readily admit that broadcasters like Curt Gowdy, Harry Caray, Ernie Harwell, Mel Allen and the like have sadly slipped into history and been replaced by clonish (and clownish) drones like Chip Caray and the like - but that isn't the way it has to be. That being said, Harrelson doesn't fit in the "old school" either. Ex-players were typically the color analysts, and were mercifully limited in their comments during a game.

The old timers were never preachy about their expertise and/or insight - they basically made comments on what they saw going on out on the field. They complimented the action - they didn't suffocate the action. Joe Morgan and Tim McCarver are other perfect examples of an ex-players that just talk way too much during a game.

Look - nobody needs to be getting PO'ed at me because I don't like Harrelson - I don't like his style or his demeanor behind a microphone, it's that simple. I'm not trying to assassinate anybody's character - I'm simply trying to illustrate why I shut the television sound down during White Sox games. I've said before, if they would broadcast a game with only the press box tied in I would love it. To me that's why going to a game is better than watching one on television - I'll think for myself.

Take a guy like Wayne Laravee - could he manage to do White Sox games?

KingXerxes
03-24-2004, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by UICJason
And to everyone on this thread saying things like this about "being good" or "being bad" for the Sox...what does the TV announcer have to do with anything?

My original point on this was the fact that a lot of people on this board in the past pointed to Harry Caray's departure being an ingredient in the White Sox popularity slipping and Caray's subsequent hiring by the Cubs as being a big part in their rise in popularity. If you is to take this as being true (and I do to a certain extent), then you also have to concede that Harrelson is a major part of the marketing platform of the White Sox.

I'm not saying this applies to Harrelson - because he's not a disaster, but with 4,000,000 television sets in the Chicago area, I think it's pretty self-evident that your day-to-day announcing crew has at least some importance to the visibility of the franchise overall. If the announcer is a total turn off, people are going to tend to watch - and care - less. Again let me repeat that I don't think Harrelson is a total turn off, I just think he can be improved upon rather easily.

Fridaythe13thJason
03-24-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
My original point on this was the fact that a lot of people on this board in the past pointed to Harry Caray's departure being an ingredient in the White Sox popularity slipping and Caray's subsequent hiring by the Cubs as being a big part in their rise in popularity. If you is to take this as being true (and I do to a certain extent), then you also have to concede that Harrelson is a major part of the marketing platform of the White Sox.

I'm not saying this applies to Harrelson - because he's not a disaster, but with 4,000,000 television sets in the Chicago area, I think it's pretty self-evident that your day-to-day announcing crew has at least some importance to the visibility of the franchise overall. If the announcer is a total turn off, people are going to tend to watch - and care - less. Again let me repeat that I don't think Harrelson is a total turn off, I just think he can be improved upon rather easily.

You make good points, but I think that has a LOT to do with Harry, and very little to do with Hawk.

If there is not a well known personality involved, the announcers probably have very little to do with it.

Maximo
03-24-2004, 12:16 PM
Hawk was 'okay' when he first started out as a color man to Don Drysdale's play by play. That was due in large part to Drysdale's philosophy of broadcasting a game liked he pitched......."I own this part of the air time just like I owned this part of the plate when I pitched.....Hawk's interjections were generally a welcome relief.

However, IMHO, if Hawk left tomorrow as the play by play guy, it wouldn't take long to find someone better. I've just never felt his down home style was a good fit for Chicago baseball fans.

Bob Elson on the radio and Jack Brickhouse on Bears broadcasts were institutions in Chicago. When they left, most of us thought they would never be replaced. One of the guys who eventually replaced Elson with the Sox and Brickhouse with the Bears was Joe McConnell. I had never heard of McConnell prior to that time, but he turned out to be pretty damn good.

I assume the same thing would happen if Hawk left.

soxnut
03-24-2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Maximo

However, IMHO, if Hawk left tomorrow as the play by play guy, it wouldn't take long to find someone better. I've just never felt his down home style was a good fit for Chicago baseball fans.

Bob Elson on the radio and Jack Brickhouse on Bears broadcasts were institutions in Chicago. When they left, most of us thought they would never be replaced. One of the guys who eventually replaced Elson with the Sox and Brickhouse with the Bears was Joe McConnell. I had never heard of McConnell prior to that time, but he turned out to be pretty damn good.

I assume the same thing would happen if Hawk left.


I really doubt they would. There are too many "genereics" out there.

soxnut
03-24-2004, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Veeky

You know there is a reason why JR will never have John Rooney as his TV voice....

John Rooney was the tv voice, the first year he arrived in Chicago.

Daver
03-24-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
Serisously?


Yes,quite seriously.

Veeky
03-24-2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Yes,quite seriously.

Oh my, you sound very, um....serious.

Care to elaborate? Thanks.

Daver
03-24-2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
Oh my, you sound very, um....serious.

Care to elaborate? Thanks.

Scott is currently the voice of the Rockford Lightning,lifelong White Sox fan,and from the Chicago area.He also has experience in radio broadcasting.

Veeky
03-24-2004, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I will readily admit that broadcasters like Curt Gowdy, Harry Caray, Ernie Harwell, Mel Allen and the like have sadly slipped into history and been replaced by clonish (and clownish) drones like Chip Caray and the like - but that isn't the way it has to be. That being said, Harrelson doesn't fit in the "old school" either. Ex-players were typically the color analysts, and were mercifully limited in their comments during a game.

The old timers were never preachy about their expertise and/or insight - they basically made comments on what they saw going on out on the field. They complimented the action - they didn't suffocate the action. Joe Morgan and Tim McCarver are other perfect examples of an ex-players that just talk way too much during a game.

Look - nobody needs to be getting PO'ed at me because I don't like Harrelson - I don't like his style or his demeanor behind a microphone, it's that simple. I'm not trying to assassinate anybody's character - I'm simply trying to illustrate why I shut the television sound down during White Sox games. I've said before, if they would broadcast a game with only the press box tied in I would love it. To me that's why going to a game is better than watching one on television - I'll think for myself.

Take a guy like Wayne Laravee - could he manage to do White Sox games?

I get what you're saying.

Would you tolerate Hawk if somebody John Rooney-esque was a PBP man? Or are you 100% Hawkism-allergic? I am curious.

To me, Hawk is a Sox institution, for better or for worse. In this day and age of a revolving booth door and drones like Josh Lewin, I find this tenure refreshing -- and Grandpa Hawk endearing and occasionally very insighful. Oh and hilarious, too -- "Hawk, you said 'boner'" is still the funniest, most surreal one liner I have ever heard during Sox games....Priceless.

As someone born in the 80s, I have very limited exposure to Harry Carey. To me, he was AWFUL -- incompetent and strangely overbearing. I guess I missed out on what made him a HOF broadcaster. It's my loss.

Veeky
03-24-2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Scott is currently the voice of the Rockford Lightning,lifelong White Sox fan,and from the Chicago area.He also has experience in radio broadcasting.

Is he THAT good? Could you envision him as a Sox broadcaster 25 years from now? I ask because I have never heard him.

These old-timers may indeed be a tad too self-aggrandizing at times and archaic in their wisdom, but the absolutely LAST thing I'd want to see is a Chip Carey Clone in the Sox booth. Whatever "damage" you might think Hawk is inflicting on Sox image, it would be a crushing blow to die-hards who keep this sorry fanchise afloat. IMO. YMMV.

What do you think of John Rooney's chances?

oldcomiskey
03-24-2004, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by Veeky

As someone born in the 80s, I have very limited exposure to Harry Carey. To me, he was AWFUL -- incompetent and strangely overbearing. I guess I missed out on what made him a HOF broadcaster. It's my loss. [/B]

yes it was--Harry was a wonderful announcer because he was opininated and was a fans type of guy-----even a pre stroke Carey would bring a smile to my face--I guess the bloodline stopped at Skip though

Fridaythe13thJason
03-24-2004, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
yes it was--Harry was a wonderful announcer because he was opininated and was a fans type of guy-----even a pre stroke Carey would bring a smile to my face--I guess the bloodline stopped at Skip though

I think it stopped at Harry, actually. Listen to Skip for 10 minutes and find yourself fast fast asleep.

oldcomiskey
03-24-2004, 04:25 PM
I still would rather listen to Hawk than say Gary Thorne or Frank Messer---boy those guys could put you to sleep

jabrch
03-24-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
I can live with that.

Any candidates for DJ's spot, though?

Mike North - just ask him

Jeremy
03-24-2004, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by bennyw41
I like Hawk a lot, but I'm pretty sure he was the main reason for Wimpy leaving.

Wimpy was fired because of those comments that he made when he "came out" and said he was molested by a priest when he was a young boy.

I like DJ as well. Doesn't he look like he's always stoned though?

Daver
03-24-2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Jeremy
Wimpy was fired because of those comments that he made when he "came out" and said he was molested by a priest when he was a young boy.

I like DJ as well. Doesn't he look like he's always stoned though?


Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

soxnut
03-24-2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Jeremy
Wimpy was fired because of those comments that he made when he "came out" and said he was molested by a priest when he was a young boy.

I like DJ as well. Doesn't he look like he's always stoned though?


Um I don't think so. Wimpy was gone BEFORE he made those comments.

TornLabrum
03-24-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
Um I don't think so. Wimpy was gone BEFORE he made those comments.

Correct. The story at the time was that Hawk was dissatisfied because Wimpy was showing up unprepared.

ChiSox14305635
03-24-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Correct. The story at the time was that Hawk was dissatisfied because Wimpy was showing up unprepared.


They had worked together for 10 freaking years!!! Why all of a sudden would Wimpy be unprepared?

uribe151
03-25-2004, 12:26 AM
hawk came up with that phony stuff because he is a PUNK!

BRING BACK TOM PACIOREK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mohoney
03-25-2004, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Hawk engages me. And I actually think DJ is a damn good announcer in his own right. Sure, he can get boring, but he knows his baseball.


And instead of saying the Blackhawks should go... The Wirtz Tenure should go.

"Don't you be thinking about winning any Stanley Cups. They're too expensive."

My God. Reinsdorf and Wirtz REALLY ARE on the same wavelength.

Thank God I'm only 23. They BOTH HAVE To die before me.

Mohoney
03-25-2004, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by UICJason
I think it stopped at Harry, actually. Listen to Skip for 10 minutes and find yourself fast fast asleep.

AMEN!!!

Plus, Chip has only 1 eyebrow, and sells "Streetwise" at the corner of Clark and Addison.

JoseCanseco6969
03-25-2004, 02:42 AM
Originally posted by uribe151
hawk came up with that phony stuff because he is a PUNK!

BRING BACK TOM PACIOREK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah sorry, i dont want a crybaby like wimpy the molested ass clown as a commentator. Sorry we dont need any more reasons for cubs fans to give us crap. Ill take the stoner DJ anyday. At least he stands up to hawk when he doesnt accept his opinion. I think DJ is a much better fit for the ego of Hawk. Wimpy fit his name...he couldnt handle the hawk and his crititism.
hehe, im ready for the wimpy backlash...bring it on.

Veeky
03-25-2004, 03:21 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

Why thank you.

Oh wait. :(:

Veeky
03-25-2004, 03:50 AM
I like DJ as well. Doesn't he look like he's always stoned though?

Ah the famous glazed look during the pre-game show. Hilarious, when contrasted with Hawk.

Of course it could also be that his eyes are that way all the time -- kinda like Renee Zellwegger giving the impression that she is squinting even though it's simply the shape of her eyes.

Veeky
03-25-2004, 04:00 AM
i dont want a crybaby like wimpy the molested ass clown as a commentator

Please ****. Thanks.

KingXerxes
03-25-2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Veeky
I get what you're saying.

Would you tolerate Hawk if somebody John Rooney-esque was a PBP man? Or are you 100% Hawkism-allergic? I am curious.

To me, Hawk is a Sox institution, for better or for worse. In this day and age of a revolving booth door and drones like Josh Lewin, I find this tenure refreshing -- and Grandpa Hawk endearing and occasionally very insighful. Oh and hilarious, too -- "Hawk, you said 'boner'" is still the funniest, most surreal one liner I have ever heard during Sox games....Priceless.

As someone born in the 80s, I have very limited exposure to Harry Carey. To me, he was AWFUL -- incompetent and strangely overbearing. I guess I missed out on what made him a HOF broadcaster. It's my loss.

If Harrelson's role in the booth was one of support (filling in the blanks) then he would be far more tolerable. When he came over with Drysdale - he was pretty much kept in check as someone posted earlier. That was pretty much his role with the Red Sox as well until his mouth got him fired. The problem with Harrelson is that he's a color guy who's just allowed to drone on and on with color commentator observations - It's like sitting at dinner with a lawyer who dominates the conversation with his chatter, and always qualifying everything by saying "Well I'm a lawyer - and from a legal perspective...................". My point is that when watching a game not everything has to be a lesson, sometimes it's just a game and I'd like to hear about something other than his opinions on "where a hitter is holding his right shoulder on an outside breaking pitch".

Can Pat Foley do baseball games? Why not? Lloyd Pettit did Cubs games for years on WGN and he was great. It doesn't have to be a clone. While I can only speak toward the availability of local announcers I can see Foley or Laravee doing just fine.

p.s. - The Harry Caray you probably remember was a post-stroke Harry Caray. He was sadly almost a cartoon of his former self by that point. The Harry Caray that did Cardinal and White Sox games made it worth tuning into the game by himself.

faneidde
03-25-2004, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
Yeah sorry, i dont want a crybaby like wimpy the molested ass clown as a commentator. Sorry we dont need any more reasons for cubs fans to give us crap. Ill take the stoner DJ anyday. At least he stands up to hawk when he doesnt accept his opinion. I think DJ is a much better fit for the ego of Hawk. Wimpy fit his name...he couldnt handle the hawk and his crititism.
hehe, im ready for the wimpy backlash...bring it on.
I am a huge Wimpy fan and I thought he and Hawk were great together, but that's not my problem with your comments. Calling Wimpy a molested assclown and DJ a stoner is what pisses me off. The comment about Wimpy is just plain hateful and calling DJ a stoner with no evidence is garbage.

RichFitztightly
03-25-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes

Can Pat Foley do baseball games? Why not? Lloyd Pettit did Cubs games for years on WGN and he was great. It doesn't have to be a clone. While I can only speak toward the availability of local announcers I can see Foley or Laravee doing just fine.


The only problem I have with Wayne Laravee, or luh-RIV-ee as he pronounces in now, is that he does Packer games. I couldn't take having that in a booth in Chicago.

KingXerxes
03-25-2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by RichFitztightly
The only problem I have with Wayne Laravee, or luh-RIV-ee as he pronounces in now, is that he does Packer games. I couldn't take having that in a booth in Chicago.

That part really doesn't bother me all that much in that I see all these guys as being paid mercenaries. How about Jim Durham?

kittle545feet
03-25-2004, 03:32 PM
uribe, i have to wonder if there is anything you like about the white sox. i have read your comments on many other threads as well as ones you have started and i can't help but wonder why you call yourself a fan of the sox. i haven't seen one positive comment from you and it starts to lead me to believe you may have some other agenda. don't get me wrong, criticism is a wonderful thing especially when its done with some sort of intelligence and has a point. also, the white sox deserve criticism as much as anyone but your comments and threads come out of nowhere and look like your trying to dig at sox fans. fact is, 86% of the people who voted disagree with you. you wanted to know, now you do. you are in the minority by a huge margin. there are solutions to every problem and mine for you is to turn the freakin' volume down and stop bitchin' about everything. :whiner:

habibharu
03-25-2004, 03:35 PM
:hawk uribe151....YOU GONE!! :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: how dare you diss hawk.

habibharu
03-25-2004, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
Ah the famous glazed look during the pre-game show. Hilarious, when contrasted with Hawk.

Of course it could also be that his eyes are that way all the time -- kinda like Renee Zellwegger giving the impression that she is squinting even though it's simply the shape of her eyes.

also like TMAC. always looks sleepy or stoned

uribe151
03-25-2004, 03:42 PM
i like uribe!

SoxBoy14
03-25-2004, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by uribe151
i like uribe!

That makes two of us.

RichFitztightly
03-25-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
That part really doesn't bother me all that much in that I see all these guys as being paid mercenaries. How about Jim Durham?

I know, my comment was meant to be taken too seriously. It was just serious enough to warrant no teal. I have no idea who Jim Durham is though.

Jeremy
03-25-2004, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
Ah the famous glazed look during the pre-game show. Hilarious, when contrasted with Hawk.

Of course it could also be that his eyes are that way all the time -- kinda like Renee Zellwegger giving the impression that she is squinting even though it's simply the shape of her eyes.

Hahaha, my eyes are like that too. But DJ's eyes are REALLY puffy and he always has a spacey smirk and sometimes his stories run on into incoherency.

You're right, contrast to Hawk's drunken look. His face is always red and his name-dropping stories... he always says that he hangs with all these people, sometimes DJ calls him on it and sorta corners Hawk in his lie. I think he likes to dip into the whiskey a little too deep before the broadcast while DJ bakes in the bathroom stall. All in all, it does make for an interesting broadcast. For this upcoming season keep this in mind when listening to them.

P.S. what is a hang-wiff-em? I've figured that it comes after a solid line out to an infielder... but I've also heard it on a high and tight fastball.

soltrain21
03-25-2004, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by Jeremy


P.S. what is a hang-wiff-em? I've figured that it comes after a solid line out to an infielder... but I've also heard it on a high and tight fastball.


I always thought he was referring to it moving like a "wiffle" ball. Because usually when it says it for an infield catch the ball kind of lingers in the air for a second, much like whiffle ball.

JohnJeter
03-26-2004, 12:08 AM
I always thought that term was a sort of encouragememt for a guy who ripped a shot that unfortunately landed in someone's glove. "Hang with 'em" (although I do hear the seemingly Ebonic "f" in "with") means "you did your job and hit the ball well but got nothing for it- bummer, but keep hitting it that way."

Am I totally off the mark on this?

WhiteSox = Life
03-26-2004, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by JohnJeter
I always thought that term was a sort of encouragememt for a guy who ripped a shot that unfortunately landed in someone's glove. "Hang with 'em" (although I do hear the seemingly Ebonic "f" in "with") means "you did your job and hit the ball well but got nothing for it- bummer, but keep hitting it that way."

Am I totally off the mark on this?

Nope. As far as I know, that's what it means, but just that Hawk cares not for the English language when he comes up with better sounding - even if incorrectly pronunciated - catch phrases.

:hawk
"WhiteSox = Life? He gawn!"

Veeky
03-26-2004, 05:31 AM
My point is that when watching a game not everything has to be a lesson, sometimes it's just a game and I'd like to hear about something other than his opinions on "where a hitter is holding his right shoulder on an outside breaking pitch".

I see.

I personally love -- LOVE! -- that part of Hawk's broadcasting ampluah. Half of it is admittedly outdated-convention-bordering-on-jock-voodoo-jibberish; half of it is brilliant when you think about it (don't tell me what, tell me when, etc). The former makes me laugh, especially when DJ dares to contradict The Master's inanities....while the latter provides welcome food for thought.

Foley and Laravee are 'Hawk and Bulls, right? I don't see it in all honesty, too impersonal and conventional for my taste -- if anyone, it's gotta be John Rooney, IMO.

Veeky
03-26-2004, 05:44 AM
Hang with 'em" (although I do hear the seemingly Ebonic "f" in "with") means "you did your job and hit the ball well but got nothing for it- bummer, but keep hitting it that way."

Am I totally off the mark on this?

Oh totally.

By which I mean, "bulls-eye"

SSN721
03-26-2004, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by Veeky
I see.

I personally love -- LOVE! -- that part of Hawk's broadcasting ampluah. Half of it is admittedly outdated-convention-bordering-on-jock-voodoo-jibberish; half of it is brilliant when you think about it (don't tell me what, tell me when, etc). The former makes me laugh, especially when DJ dares to contradict The Master's inanities....while the latter provides welcome food for thought.

Foley and Laravee are 'Hawk and Bulls, right? I don't see it in all honesty, too impersonal and conventional for my taste -- if anyone, it's gotta be John Rooney, IMO.

I gotta disagree with you on Pat Foley. Pat is an incredible announcer in my opinion, I would say the greatest radio broadcaster I have ever heard in my lifetime. His ability to capture the excitement of the game and keep you into it (especially difficult as bad as the Hawks are right now) I find myself tuning in to games just to listen to him. I personally think he would have no problems crossing sports and broadcasting any other sport. I would only question his baseball knowledge, just because I have no idea how much he knows of it. But on ability alone I think he is fantastic.

TornLabrum
03-26-2004, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by Jeremy
Hahaha, my eyes are like that too. But DJ's eyes are REALLY puffy and he always has a spacey smirk and sometimes his stories run on into incoherency.

The part about the stories sounds like Ed Farmer.

KingXerxes
03-26-2004, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
I gotta disagree with you on Pat Foley. Pat is an incredible announcer in my opinion, I would say the greatest radio broadcaster I have ever heard in my lifetime. His ability to capture the excitement of the game and keep you into it (especially difficult as bad as the Hawks are right now) I find myself tuning in to games just to listen to him. I personally think he would have no problems crossing sports and broadcasting any other sport. I would only question his baseball knowledge, just because I have no idea how much he knows of it. But on ability alone I think he is fantastic.

Given Pat Foley's style, I think he could get away with not possessing a huge, in-depth baseball resume. The play-by-play guy doesn't necessarily have to be an encyclopedia of knowledge, he simply needs to broadcast a game in an exciting fashion. Joe McConnell - when he did the White Sox games years ago - was like this. The guy could make a ground ball to the second baseman sound exciting.

Look at the way Foley does hockey games. You don't hear him talk about how the left wing positioned his body in order to receive a pass from the defenseman - all you hear is "Great pass to (enter name here) from (enter name here)!" Then he allows the color guy a couple of seconds to explain the nuances of the play if appropriate.

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I don't like the broadcast of any game being put through an expertise filter. Other broadcasters who get under my skin are Bill (Know-It-All) Walton, Joe (I Never Shut Up) Morgan, Tim (I Never Shut Up Part II) McCarver, and Dan (I Invented Football) Fouts. How I wish they would put a single play-by-play guy in a booth alone. Sometimes less is more.

oldcomiskey
03-26-2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by RichFitztightly
I know, my comment was meant to be taken too seriously. It was just serious enough to warrant no teal. I have no idea who Jim Durham is though.
Jim Durham did the Sox games when they first went back to WGN and Hawk was his replacement---I seem to remember Durham on some Bulls games at that time as well

TornLabrum
03-26-2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
Jim Durham did the Sox games when they first went back to WGN and Hawk was his replacement---I seem to remember Durham on some Bulls games at that time as well

Durham was the voice of the Bulls in the '70s and possibly part way into the '80s, back when they were on WIND (before it became "La Tremenda!")

Veeky
03-26-2004, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Given Pat Foley's style, I think he could get away with not possessing a huge, in-depth baseball resume. The play-by-play guy doesn't necessarily have to be an encyclopedia of knowledge, he simply needs to broadcast a game in an exciting fashion. Joe McConnell - when he did the White Sox games years ago - was like this. The guy could make a ground ball to the second baseman sound exciting.

Look at the way Foley does hockey games. You don't hear him talk about how the left wing positioned his body in order to receive a pass from the defenseman - all you hear is "Great pass to (enter name here) from (enter name here)!" Then he allows the color guy a couple of seconds to explain the nuances of the play if appropriate.

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I don't like the broadcast of any game being put through an expertise filter. Other broadcasters who get under my skin are Bill (Know-It-All) Walton, Joe (I Never Shut Up) Morgan, Tim (I Never Shut Up Part II) McCarver, and Dan (I Invented Football) Fouts. How I wish they would put a single play-by-play guy in a booth alone. Sometimes less is more.

Pat Foley is not a baseball man. Hockey is a different animal. However, if he proves to be a good PBP during "audition" process, than I am certanly all for it. With the HR porch being built next year, he could add to the novelty factor -- a New Start for the franchise, as it were. When does DJ's contact run out?

Not only is hockey inherently different from baseball, but we're also talking about RADIO and television -- Hawk doesn't need to be nearly as descriptive or excitement-stirring -- the viewer can see the action and put the sound to the image.
I am not saying Foley can't handle the switch, just pointing out a few CONS.

Not saying you have to like Hawk's Hoax, but WHAT is so damn wrong with a little expertise in general? In soccer, basketball and hockey, a radio announcer cannot afford intellectual or historical detours as he is too busy describing the ACTION. Which is not to say old radio announcers couldn't insert "...like four horsemen of the apocalypse, here come ___" references here and there, but it's no longer the norm, to say the least. Anyway, just WHAT should PBP and CA talk about in between pitches?

I am curious, will you be turning up your TV sound with Foley as PBP and Hawk as color analyst?

slavko
03-26-2004, 07:45 PM
I remember Wimpy being interviewed on local sports radio midway through his first season away from the Sox. He thanked everyone connected with the club you could think of, from JR to the guys who paint the foul lines.....except Hawk. And regarding Rooney, why someone who can't paint a word-picture wants to do radio and not TV is hard to understand.

voodoochile
03-26-2004, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by slavko
I remember Wimpy being interviewed on local sports radio midway through his first season away from the Sox. He thanked everyone connected with the club you could think of, from JR to the guys who paint the foul lines.....except Hawk. And regarding Rooney, why someone who can't paint a word-picture wants to do radio and not TV is hard to understand.

Hey, Welcome Aboard! :D:

uribe151
03-26-2004, 07:59 PM
bring back sox and life hero tom paciorek!!!!!

bigbohock
03-26-2004, 09:03 PM
I don't think the White Sox should get rid of Hawk they should get rid of Darren Jackson he is annoying and serves no purpose.

Veeky
03-26-2004, 09:33 PM
And regarding Rooney, why someone who can't paint a word-picture wants to do radio and not TV is hard to understand

Oh I don't think he wants to.

Unfortunately, he's afflicted with a "radio face".

Two ugly people in in the same booth? Not gonna happen.

Jeremy
03-27-2004, 01:41 AM
LOL Hawk and his urban slang.

I believe he is saying "hang with them" but it surely comes out "hang wif-em"

how can you not love Hawk? He is hillarious! He must be 65 or so, but he talks just like a ghetto child... it's priceless in my opinion

HE GONE!!!


Mercy!

Gas!

Watch out!

Veeky
03-27-2004, 02:51 AM
HE GONE!!!

Mercy!

Gas!

Watch out!


Long Live Hawk.

On a somewhat related note, I've come to relalize that I am seemingly the only living Sox fan who remembers DJ's "Hawk, you said 'boner'" and Hawk going into stifled rage/dead air mode, during which time I thought he would strangle Feisty. It was great. Unfotunately, I am beginning to think it was a hallucination on my part.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-27-2004, 07:34 AM
The only thing Hawk is really good for is telling us what Jerry Reinsdorf is thinking. He is the chairman's official mouthpiece, the Oracle of Reinsdorphi.

If you really care to know what is going on during the ballgame, listen to Rooney. If you want a bunch of b.s. stories or want to know whether Reinsdorf is up or down on somebody (either inside or outside the organ-eye-zation), listen to Hawk.

oldcomiskey
03-27-2004, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Jeremy
LOL Hawk and his urban slang.

I believe he is saying "hang with them" but it surely comes out "hang wif-em"

how can you not love Hawk? He is hillarious! He must be 65 or so, but he talks just like a ghetto child... it's priceless in my opinion

HE GONE!!!


Mercy!

Gas!

Watch out!

Its not urban slang---its Dixie slang as Hawk was born in Woodruff, South Carolina as was the Marshall Tucker Band

oldcomiskey
03-27-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Veeky
Oh I don't think he wants to.

Unfortunately, he's afflicted with a "radio face".

Two ugly people in in the same booth? Not gonna happen.

as a former disc jockey I resemble that remark

Jeremy
03-27-2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Veeky
Long Live Hawk.

On a somewhat related note, I've come to relalize that I am seemingly the only living Sox fan who remembers DJ's "Hawk, you said 'boner'" and Hawk going into stifled rage/dead air mode, during which time I thought he would strangle Feisty. It was great. Unfotunately, I am beginning to think it was a hallucination on my part.

I'm sure it happend, afterall, that's why he's known as Feisty. I love the dead air mode. Do you ever notice that there are some innings where Hawk just doesn't speak at all? There's nothing funnier than DJ's play by play especially if a home run is hit... he's all laid back and just get's a "yes!" out.

Greg1983
03-27-2004, 12:39 PM
Haven't posted in a while, but let me just throw in my two cents' worth on this topic...I think Hawk is a terrific TV announcer for the Sox. His charisma is actually one of the most marketable things about the generally-moribund White Sox organization.

I vaguely remember seeing A-Rod on ESPN during the Home Run Derby at the Cell last year, referring to someone as a "pick to click" and maybe dropping one or two other Hawk-isms. Clearly, my exact memory of his remarks has faded, but I just thought it was so cool that the most famous player in the game had latched on to something identifiable about our team and was having fun with it. God knows we don't get very many players on the field to make our team interesting, at least we have someone in the booth.

Hawk may be a bit of a stooge for Reinsdorf, and I definitely agree with PaleHoseGeorge that if you want to hear what's going on in the game, flip on the radio and listen to Rooney. But I still think the Sox desperately need Hawk doing his schtick in the booth to keep things interesting.

One last memory...last year, the game at home where we swept the Twins with Paul Konerko's home run in the 8th (I think), and then Frank won it with a walk-off dinger in extra innings. I think this was the first night after the Alomar and Everett signings.

Hearing Hawk's call on Big Frank's homer: "HIGH AND DEEP...WAAY BACK...HE LOOKS UP..."

and then the best part, with some pauses and extra emphasis so that you knew he truly was overjoyed...

"YOU CAN PUT...IT...ON...THE......BOOOOARD....YES!!!"

He slowed it down and put extra emphasis on each word for extra emotion. You knew he meant it, he wasn't just doing his same old song and dance. Best home run call I've ever heard in my life. I mean, I always dig Hawk's call, but that night was special.

Long live the Hawk...and bring back Wimpy!!!!!!

Veeky
03-27-2004, 03:01 PM
The only thing Hawk is really good for is telling us what Jerry Reinsdorf is thinking,

Well, in that case this Jerry Reinsdorf fella of which you speaketh must be a knowledgable, enthusiastic, charming quirkmeister with a soothing voice. Good on him.

If you really care to know what is going on during the ballgame, listen to Rooney.

I'll say. Those radio accouncers sure do like their talkin' and describin'. Of course, who cares if said announcer doesn't know a curveball low-in from a slider away and can't really tell a blooper that's about to be caught from a shallow gapper.....leaving one to wonder just how do blind squirrels go about getting a booth gig these days......But hey, he does follow the count more often than not and does seem peeved when a Sox player makes a fielding error. Thta's good. I guess.

or want to know whether Reinsdorf is up or down on somebody (either inside or outside the organ-eye-zation),

Does this mean Ichiro and Garret Anderson are coming to the Sox? Awesome!

On a somewhat different note, I have heard some good things about the guy Daver recommended. Does anyone know the status of DJ's contract?

Veeky
03-27-2004, 03:10 PM
One last memory...last year, the game at home where we swept the Twins with Paul Konerko's home run in the 8th (I think), and then Frank won it with a walk-off dinger in extra innings. I think this was the first night after the Alomar and Everett signings.

Hearing Hawk's call on Big Frank's homer: "HIGH AND DEEP...WAAY BACK...HE LOOKS UP..."

and then the best part, with some pauses and extra emphasis so that you knew he truly was overjoyed...

"YOU CAN PUT...IT...ON...THE......BOOOOARD....YES!!!"

He slowed it down and put extra emphasis on each word for extra emotion. You knew he meant it, he wasn't just doing his same old song and dance. Best home run call I've ever heard in my life. I mean, I always dig Hawk's call, but that night was special.

Goosebumps. I thought Hawk was going into cardiac arrest. Can you effin' imagine what would happen if Sox were winning games that actually MATTER -- a walk-off homer in a decisive game of ALCS, for instance...........**raises a candle**

Hawk and everyone in the house knew the ball was gone the instant it touched the Franks bat.

DrummerGeorgefan
03-27-2004, 06:24 PM
You gotta love hawk's enthusiasm when there is a big SO or HR at a crucial moment.

However, listening to older games and watching my fair share on ESC, i think that all announcers should have to do announcing bootcamp on radio before they get to do tv. You need to be more descriptive and excited on radio. Joe Buck and McCarver on the radio would be great only to fall asleep too.

Just listen to Pat Foley for a minute and you will understand me.

skobabe8
03-30-2004, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Greg1983
Haven't posted in a while, but let me just throw in my two cents' worth on this topic...I think Hawk is a terrific TV announcer for the Sox. His charisma is actually one of the most marketable things about the generally-moribund White Sox organization.

I vaguely remember seeing A-Rod on ESPN during the Home Run Derby at the Cell last year, referring to someone as a "pick to click" and maybe dropping one or two other Hawk-isms. Clearly, my exact memory of his remarks has faded, but I just thought it was so cool that the most famous player in the game had latched on to something identifiable about our team and was having fun with it. God knows we don't get very many players on the field to make our team interesting, at least we have someone in the booth.

Hawk may be a bit of a stooge for Reinsdorf, and I definitely agree with PaleHoseGeorge that if you want to hear what's going on in the game, flip on the radio and listen to Rooney. But I still think the Sox desperately need Hawk doing his schtick in the booth to keep things interesting.

One last memory...last year, the game at home where we swept the Twins with Paul Konerko's home run in the 8th (I think), and then Frank won it with a walk-off dinger in extra innings. I think this was the first night after the Alomar and Everett signings.

Hearing Hawk's call on Big Frank's homer: "HIGH AND DEEP...WAAY BACK...HE LOOKS UP..."

and then the best part, with some pauses and extra emphasis so that you knew he truly was overjoyed...

"YOU CAN PUT...IT...ON...THE......BOOOOARD....YES!!!"

He slowed it down and put extra emphasis on each word for extra emotion. You knew he meant it, he wasn't just doing his same old song and dance. Best home run call I've ever heard in my life. I mean, I always dig Hawk's call, but that night was special.

Long live the Hawk...and bring back Wimpy!!!!!!

I totally agree! Guys on SportsCenter say 'pick to click' alot and other hawk catchphrases. As far as that game against the Twinkies is concerned, I had ridiculous seats behind the plate and that was by far one of my greatest sox memories of all time. Paulie was in that slump and he gotta hold of I think a first ball fastball and just cranked it like Roy Hobbs. Franks dong was the iciing on the iciing on the cake. Had the roof been up last year it might have been blown off. I couldn't wait to get home to catch the highlights and hear Hawk call that homer. And it was one of the greatest calls I've ever heard, the kind that sends chills up your spine. You got it exactly right, Greg1983, when you said he paused and then put extra emphasis on the call. He pretty much had to yell because the Cell was going bananas!

Jeremy
03-31-2004, 12:51 AM
I love when Hawk calls an opposition home run... he's very ticked off and says "well, you can put it on the board"

Veeky
03-31-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Jeremy
I love when Hawk calls an opposition home run... he's very ticked off and says "well, you can put it on the board"

Those patented changes in inflection and tone....Hilarious!

Brian26
03-31-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Greg1983
One last memory...last year, the game at home where we swept the Twins with Paul Konerko's home run in the 8th (I think), and then Frank won it with a walk-off dinger in extra innings. I think this was the first night after the Alomar and Everett signings.

Hearing Hawk's call on Big Frank's homer: "HIGH AND DEEP...WAAY BACK...HE LOOKS UP..."

and then the best part, with some pauses and extra emphasis so that you knew he truly was overjoyed...

"YOU CAN PUT...IT...ON...THE......BOOOOARD....YES!!!"

He slowed it down and put extra emphasis on each word for extra emotion. You knew he meant it, he wasn't just doing his same old song and dance. Best home run call I've ever heard in my life. I mean, I always dig Hawk's call, but that night was special.

Long live the Hawk...and bring back Wimpy!!!!!!

I had the pleasure of being at that game. I taped the replay of the game that night and still have the tape. Hearing Hawk's call was almost better than actually seeing it live. Great moment.

Brian26
03-31-2004, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by skobabe8
Franks dong was the iciing on the iciing on the cake. Had the roof been up last year it might have been blown off. I couldn't wait to get home to catch the highlights and hear Hawk call that homer. And it was one of the greatest calls I've ever heard, the kind that sends chills up your spine. You got it exactly right, Greg1983, when you said he paused and then put extra emphasis on the call. He pretty much had to yell because the Cell was going bananas!

What made it so exhilirating was that Frank battled in that at-bat. He had two strikes on him forever, fouling off over a dozen pitches. If I recall, the homerun came on the 18th or 19th pitch of the sequence. Incredible moment.

Veeky
03-31-2004, 05:24 PM
I recall, the homerun came on the 18th or 19th pitch of the sequence.

Which remind me of that battle between Burhle and Palmeiro at the Cell....it had to be close to 20 pitches.

chitown35
04-01-2004, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by Veeky
Long Live Hawk.

On a somewhat related note, I've come to relalize that I am seemingly the only living Sox fan who remembers DJ's "Hawk, you said 'boner'" and Hawk going into stifled rage/dead air mode, during which time I thought he would strangle Feisty. It was great. Unfotunately, I am beginning to think it was a hallucination on my part.

Yeah, hawk did say that, I remember very well. Along with "the mongeeses"...and dj cracking up while trying to say "he's got a good curveball!"

As for the whole hawk argument, he definitely does something for the club. I'm the only sox fan in my group of friends, but whenever we watch baseball games its the sox because of hawk's broadcasting. At least he makes it interesting, even enough for cubs and yankees fans to decide to watch the sox over their own team. So I can deal with him occasionally telling us about Mickey Mantle's "best knuckleball from centerfield" lol

voodoochile
04-01-2004, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by chitown35
Yeah, hawk did say that, I remember very well. Along with "the mongeeses"...and dj cracking up while trying to say "he's got a good curveball!"

As for the whole hawk argument, he definitely does something for the club. I'm the only sox fan in my group of friends, but whenever we watch baseball games its the sox because of hawk's broadcasting. At least he makes it interesting, even enough for cubs and yankees fans to decide to watch the sox over their own team. So I can deal with him occasionally telling us about Mickey Mantle's "best knuckleball from centerfield" lol

Hey, Welcome Aboard! :D:

jcirish85
04-07-2004, 10:55 PM
Hawk must go. I always thought he was ok until i got MLb extra innings and i'm listening to all the other broadcasters. the others just have better things to say, they dont talk about their golf game, and they are exciting. if hawk doesnt go, DJ has to leave. he is absolutely awful. Hawk could be ok with someone more exciting, but DJ just has no talent at all. those two have put too many asleep while broadcasting.

iwannago
04-09-2004, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
I got a thread for you. DJ must go.

I agree he really doesn't add much to the broadcast, neither did Paciorek. Farmer or maybe even Bill Melton would be an improvement.

NonetheLoaiza
04-12-2004, 12:17 AM
Farmer is awesome because he is so sarcastic and always talks about the things he hates. Along with Rooney, I love it when they make fun of other team's fans and the other team in general. Personally, I like Hawk and he definitely give the Sox something in the broadcast booth. He's a fan favorite, as one can see looking at the poll results. I am a Hawk fan, but alot of the time I find myself muting the TV and turning on the radio listening to Rooney and Farmer. They just have more interesting things to say during the broadcast. Regardless, I think Hawk is awesome, but I can see why some don't like him.