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Lip Man 1
03-19-2004, 08:23 PM
According to Ed Sherman of the Tribune the ESPN gang will be looking at the Sox on saturday during SportsCenter.

The Cubs are Sunday.

Lip

pudge
03-20-2004, 02:13 AM
If anyone actually learns anything new from ESPN's White Sox preview, please post it here. I'll be shocked. SportsCenter has become a worthless medium, only valuable to people who don't own computers and/or hibernate in caves.

MisterB
03-20-2004, 10:35 AM
Caught it this morning. The lowdown: Gammons predicts a 3rd place finish, Harold Reyonlds predicts 4th behind Cleveland. Consensus was the usual: powerful offense, shoddy defense, too many questionmarks on pitching. Nothing new there...

p.s. - their 'wildcard' picks: Gammons - Jeremy Reed, Reynolds - Guillen.

sas1974
03-20-2004, 11:08 AM
3rd or 4th?!?!? You have got to be kidding me. I typically like HR, but he's WAY off on this one. As for Gammons...no comment.

Kittle
03-20-2004, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by sas1974
3rd or 4th?!?!? You have got to be kidding me. I typically like HR, but he's WAY off on this one. As for Gammons...no comment.

No way they finish fourth in THIS division. Reynolds is an idiot.

dickallen15
03-20-2004, 11:18 AM
If they finish 3rd or 4th, the seminar featuring KW, Guillen and Hawk will be quite a barnburner next Soxfest. If Gammons says 3rd, l like the White Sox chances of winning the division.

hftrex
03-20-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
Caught it this morning. The lowdown: Gammons predicts a 3rd place finish, Harold Reyonlds predicts 4th behind Cleveland. Consensus was the usual: powerful offense, shoddy defense, too many questionmarks on pitching. Nothing new there...

p.s. - their 'wildcard' picks: Gammons - Jeremy Reed, Reynolds - Guillen.


Talentwise, outside of 2b and to a lesser extent 5th starter, this is a contending team that should not finish any lower than 2nd.

Manager/coachingwise, especially now that Nossek is gone, is not worthy of the talent and the Hispanic Terry Bevington could very well drag the team down to 4th place.

However, Cleveland is all screwed up. If there's an AL Central Division with real upside potential, its Detroit so the Indians should finish in last place.

hftrex
03-20-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by dickallen15
If they finish 3rd or 4th, the seminar featuring KW, Guillen and Hawk will be quite a barnburner next Soxfest. If Gammons says 3rd, l like the White Sox chances of winning the division.

If the Sox finish in 4th place, there won't even be a seminar since they will be too cowardly to show themselves in public!

Mohoney
03-20-2004, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
No way they finish fourth in THIS division. Reynolds is an idiot.

Didn't Harold Reynolds pick the Cincinnati Reds to win the NL Central last year?

Deadguy
03-20-2004, 12:51 PM
I bet the preview centers around that nasty feud between Thomas and Guillen, that is sure to tear this team apart. Jay Mariotti will even take a break from Around the Horn to throw his .00000002 cents into the mix, for this preview.

Kuzman
03-20-2004, 12:55 PM
no way in hell their going to finish 4th... christ harold do another line or something

Lip Man 1
03-20-2004, 12:56 PM
Considering the realistic holes and issues with this team it is certainly possible for a 3rd place finish.

It's not as crazy as some of you think.

This club could easily win the worst division in baseball or fall flat on their collective asses.

Either way we won't need to worry about playing in late October again this season.

Lip

CWSGuy406
03-20-2004, 01:02 PM
It was funny how, when doing the Royals preview, they didn't even make a big deal about their TOTAL lack of pitching.

Jjav829
03-20-2004, 03:31 PM
Is it just me, or can Harold Reynolds not go through a segment without mentioning how bad the Sox defense is? I mean we could add Prior, Schilling and Pedro to our rotation (and hell through in Gagne and Dotel for our pen) and he'd still talk about how bad our defense is!

http://espn-i.starwave.com/i/columnists/ravech_karl_ipi.jpg
"...And so the White Sox win it 19-0 over the Yankees and move to 20 games up on the second place Twins in the central..."

http://www.esportsinstruction.com/HaroldR50x50.jpg
"Yeah Karl, but they won't go anywhere if they don't start fielding better"

http://espn-i.starwave.com/i/columnists/ravech_karl_ipi.jpg
"But they're 20 games up, with an amazingly dominant pitching staff, don't you think that gives them a pretty good chance?"

http://www.esportsinstruction.com/HaroldR50x50.jpg
"They've gotta start picking the ball up, they can't rely on that pitching staff to do everything."

http://www.allsports.com/mlb/redsox/jpegs/gammons.jpg
"You know, it's really not fair. Magglio should be on the Red Sox."

http://www.esportsinstruction.com/HaroldR50x50.jpg
"Magglio made an error today, he's a liability to that team."

joecrede
03-20-2004, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Either way we won't need to worry about playing in late October again this season.

Lip

Think about this though Lip, at least one of these four teams, Angels, Mariners, Red Sox, or Yankees won't make it to October at all. All have payrolls in excess of $90M

Lip Man 1
03-20-2004, 07:42 PM
Joe:

Think about this...

Those four teams will all draw 2.5 million or more fans this year in part because they have shown those same fans they are serious about winning. Barring injuries they will all win 93 games, maybe more, and they will make money hand over foot because of that effort even with those large payrolls. Just look at the number of tickets the Yankees sold in the days after acquiring A-Rod. They have already paid for his salary and then some.

Would I stop going to Sox games or being a Sox fan if they won 94 games and did not make the post season?

Of course not and neither will those fans with the team that doesn't make it. I'd venture to say those same fans will go even more the following season because of that effort.

Now then we have the White Sox....

With respect Joe, as usual, you are looking at it from an owners, financial, bottom line point of view. (Oh woe is me, we spent 95 million in salaries and didn't make the playoffs!)

As a fan my attitude is 'you have to spend money to make money...' Until the Sox learn that basic financial tenant they will continue to be a second class citizen in their own home town and continue to have a stellar average seasonal record of 83-79.

But of course, maybe that's what good ole' Uncle Jerry wants so he can maximize his income.

Lip

RKMeibalane
03-20-2004, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Joe:

Think about this...

Those four teams will all draw 2.5 million or more fans this year in part because they have shown those same fans they are serious about winning. Barring injuries they will all win 93 games, maybe more, and they will make money hand over foot because of that effort even with those large payrolls. Just look at the number of tickets the Yankees sold in the days after acquiring A-Rod. They have already paid for his salary and then some.

Would I stop going to Sox games or being a Sox fan if they won 94 games and did not make the post season?

Of course not and neither will those fans with the team that doesn't make it. I'd venture to say those same fans will go even more the following season because of that effort.

Now then we have the White Sox....

With respect Joe, as usual, you are looking at it from an owners, financial, bottom line point of view. (Oh woe is me, we spent 95 million in salaries and didn't make the playoffs!)

As a fan my attitude is 'you have to spend money to make money...' Until the Sox learn that basic financial tenant they will continue to be a second class citizen in their own home town and continue to have a stellar average seasonal record of 83-79.

But of course, maybe that's what good ole' Uncle Jerry wants so he can maximize his income.

Lip

Hope springs eternal, except at Lip's house.

Lip Man 1
03-20-2004, 11:27 PM
RK Says: "Hope springs eternal, except at Lip's house."

The Chicago White Sox shouldn't have to rely on hope ...who do you think they are the Cubs?

Lip

Lip Man 1
03-20-2004, 11:33 PM
A very important point was left out (I'm sure unintentionally...) by some concerning the Sox ESPN preview.

That was Peter Gammons comments towards the end of the story:

"Give Kenny Williams the money and he's shown he'll go out and get players. He did it last year when he got Everett and Alomar. But I don't think he's going to be allowed to do that this year."

Lip

Dan H
03-21-2004, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Hope springs eternal, except at Lip's house.

I've been a Sox fan for over 40 years and I have seen a 5-14 record in the playoffs and nine straight post season losses at home. Hope is great, but about some results for a change?

gosox41
03-21-2004, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Joe:

Think about this...

Those four teams will all draw 2.5 million or more fans this year in part because they have shown those same fans they are serious about winning. Barring injuries they will all win 93 games, maybe more, and they will make money hand over foot because of that effort even with those large payrolls. Just look at the number of tickets the Yankees sold in the days after acquiring A-Rod. They have already paid for his salary and then some.

Would I stop going to Sox games or being a Sox fan if they won 94 games and did not make the post season?

Of course not and neither will those fans with the team that doesn't make it. I'd venture to say those same fans will go even more the following season because of that effort.

Now then we have the White Sox....

With respect Joe, as usual, you are looking at it from an owners, financial, bottom line point of view. (Oh woe is me, we spent 95 million in salaries and didn't make the playoffs!)

As a fan my attitude is 'you have to spend money to make money...' Until the Sox learn that basic financial tenant they will continue to be a second class citizen in their own home town and continue to have a stellar average seasonal record of 83-79.

But of course, maybe that's what good ole' Uncle Jerry wants so he can maximize his income.

Lip

Lip,

If the Sox had a $90 mill. payroll and didn't play well (because of injuries or whaever reason) attendance would drop. No way does a $90 mill. payroll guarantee fans coming out to the Cell.

It's been proven that the only way for this team to draw is to win. I do beleive the Sox should take out some debt to do this,, but that fact is neither of us know the inside numbers to know if it is feasible for the SOx to have a $90 mill. payroll and break even.

A lot of business decisions are based on 'risk/rewark' It has to be justified behind those drasd things you hate called numbers. Right now I don't think it's realistic fo the Sox to have a 90$ mill. payro..

I do think they can go up to $75 mill by taking on some debt. If this gets them to the playoffs a couple of times, it might build some loyalty among fans and the risk of jumping from a $75 mill payroll to $90 mill is a lot less because of that.

Bob

fquaye149
03-21-2004, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Lip,

If the Sox had a $90 mill. payroll and didn't play well (because of injuries or whaever reason) attendance would drop. No way does a $90 mill. payroll guarantee fans coming out to the Cell.

It's been proven that the only way for this team to draw is to win. I do beleive the Sox should take out some debt to do this,, but that fact is neither of us know the inside numbers to know if it is feasible for the SOx to have a $90 mill. payroll and break even.

A lot of business decisions are based on 'risk/rewark' It has to be justified behind those drasd things you hate called numbers. Right now I don't think it's realistic fo the Sox to have a 90$ mill. payro..

I do think they can go up to $75 mill by taking on some debt. If this gets them to the playoffs a couple of times, it might build some loyalty among fans and the risk of jumping from a $75 mill payroll to $90 mill is a lot less because of that.

Bob


exactly. Cheaping out is not fun, but neither is dishing out huge bucks for someone who tanks ( a la Jamie Navarro). Sure it would have made the pundits less likely to criticize us had we resigned Colon, but 12-14 million a year is a huge contract in this day and age, especially for a fat pitcher who's getting fatter - if he has a bad year in Anaheim this year, will we still be upset we weren't locked in to a 42 million dollar deal? I remember a lot of people think we cheaped out on Miguel Tejada, but is his one season (one season removed from it, no less) worth the high price he commands? The fact that we are trying to resign Maggs shows that JR is not completely averse to spending money, just on gambling on risks that could give him the albatrosses the New York Mets seem to be rife with.

joecrede
03-21-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
A very important point was left out (I'm sure unintentionally...) by some concerning the Sox ESPN preview.

That was Peter Gammons comments towards the end of the story:

"Give Kenny Williams the money and he's shown he'll go out and get players. He did it last year when he got Everett and Alomar. But I don't think he's going to be allowed to do that this year."

Lip

Kenny Williams has had money and he hasn't spent it wisely. So far he's proven to be a mediocre-to-slightly-above GM. He's done just enough good things (Marte, Loaiza, Colon and Gordon) to balance the tens of millions of dollars he's thrown away on replacable talent.

joecrede
03-21-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Joe:

Think about this...

Those four teams will all draw 2.5 million or more fans this year in part because they have shown those same fans they are serious about winning. Barring injuries they will all win 93 games, maybe more, and they will make money hand over foot because of that effort even with those large payrolls.

I believe The Sox stand an excellent chance to win more games than the Mariners this year.

Just look at the number of tickets the Yankees sold in the days after acquiring A-Rod. They have already paid for his salary and then some.

White Sox fans wouldn't pay Yankees ticket prices if Ted Williams were (unfrozen) in his prime and in LF.

Hangar18
03-21-2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Joe:

Think about this...

Those four teams will all draw 2.5 million or more fans this year in part because they have shown those same fans they are serious about winning. Barring injuries they will all win 93 games, maybe more, and they will make money hand over foot because of that effort even with those large payrolls. Just look at the number of tickets the Yankees sold in the days after acquiring A-Rod. They have already paid for his salary and then some.


Now then we have the White Sox....

With respect Joe, as usual, you are looking at it from an owners, financial, bottom line point of view. (Oh woe is me, we spent 95 million in salaries and didn't make the playoffs!)

As a fan my attitude is 'you have to spend money to make money...' Until the Sox learn that basic financial tenant they will continue to be a second class citizen in their own home town and continue to have a stellar average seasonal record of 83-79.

Lip

Good Point. The SOX will and have pointed out theyve spent $$$ before, and its gotten them nowhere (navarro, belle)
Thats a Rationalization if I ever heard one, they spent $$$$ FOOLISHLY. Navarro should never have been paid that much,
and we didnt Need BELLE at the time. we needed a PITCHER
that year (to replace the departed Jack McDowell) JR however, seemed bent on proving a point to the other owners (nevermind his own team) and signed Albert

BeerHandle
03-22-2004, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
3rd or 4th?!?!? You have got to be kidding me. I typically like HR, but he's WAY off on this one. As for Gammons...no comment.

There isn't a reason to like any of these idiots. Many of the stories (rumors) they start never come to fruition.

Lip Man 1
03-22-2004, 12:44 PM
Joe:

No.... for Ted Williams they wouldn't, but they would for a team that won four World Championships and went to the World Series, six times in ten years.

They'd do it willingly, gladly and in record numbers for this city.

Lip

hold2dibber
03-22-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
exactly. Cheaping out is not fun, but neither is dishing out huge bucks for someone who tanks ( a la Jamie Navarro). Sure it would have made the pundits less likely to criticize us had we resigned Colon, but 12-14 million a year is a huge contract in this day and age, especially for a fat pitcher who's getting fatter - if he has a bad year in Anaheim this year, will we still be upset we weren't locked in to a 42 million dollar deal? I remember a lot of people think we cheaped out on Miguel Tejada, but is his one season (one season removed from it, no less) worth the high price he commands? The fact that we are trying to resign Maggs shows that JR is not completely averse to spending money, just on gambling on risks that could give him the albatrosses the New York Mets seem to be rife with.

The Sox wouldn't have had to dish out big bucks to make themselves a legit contender this off season. If they were willing to go to $75 million in payroll in '04, they could have added:

Eric Young, 2b, $1 million (.336 OBP, 15 HR, 28 SBs in '03);
Matt Stairs, OF, $1 million (.950 OBP, 20 HRs in '03 (including .984 OPS and 18 HRs in just 273 ABs vs. righties);
Pat Hentgen, P, $2.2 million (4.09 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, 150 Hs in 160 IP in '03);
Jose Cruz Jr., OF, $3 million (.779 OPS, 20 HR in '03);
Tim Worrell, RP, $2.25 million (2.87 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 28 saves in '03); and
Sterling Hitchcock or Chris Carpenter, SP, $0.8 million (hurt in '03)

LINEUP:

Young 2B
Lee LF
Thomas 1B/DH
Ordonez RF
Konerko 1B/DH
Valentin SS
Cruz Jr. CF
Crede 3B
Olivo C

Rotation:

Loaiza
Buehrle
Garland
Hentgen
Hitchcock/Carpenter

Pen:

Koch
Marte
Worrell
Politte or Mr. Zero
Wright
Schoenweiss
Wunsch

Bench:

Stairs
Uribe or Harris
Alomar Jr.
Rowand


That team would certainly be the hands-on favorite to win the division. And those are just some examples of the possibilities. The point is that in an eminently winnable division, the Sox would not have had to up the payroll by a ton to be the run away favorite in the division.

longshot7
03-22-2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
The Sox wouldn't have had to dish out big bucks to make themselves a legit contender this off season. If they were willing to go to $75 million in payroll in '04, they could have added:

Eric Young, 2b, $1 million (.336 OBP, 15 HR, 28 SBs in '03);
Matt Stairs, OF, $1 million (.950 OBP, 20 HRs in '03 (including .984 OPS and 18 HRs in just 273 ABs vs. righties);
Pat Hentgen, P, $2.2 million (4.09 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, 150 Hs in 160 IP in '03);
Jose Cruz Jr., OF, $3 million (.779 OPS, 20 HR in '03);
Tim Worrell, RP, $2.25 million (2.87 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 28 saves in '03); and
Sterling Hitchcock or Chris Carpenter, SP, $0.8 million (hurt in '03)


You want Hentgen, Stairs and EY on this team???? that would make us the Brewers of last year. to overuse an expression - "Gag me with a spoon!"

I'm happier with our lineup the way it is. It's better to not spend money than to spend it on sucky players.

and I agree, screw hope. I want wins.

longshot7
03-22-2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Mohoney
Didn't Harold Reynolds pick the Cincinnati Reds to win the NL Central last year?

and he picked the Sox to win our divison. shows what he knows....

and whoever dissed cleveland... you're gonna be surprised. this division will be competitive this year.

hold2dibber
03-22-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
You want Hentgen, Stairs and EY on this team???? that would make us the Brewers of last year. to overuse an expression - "Gag me with a spoon!"

I'm happier with our lineup the way it is. It's better to not spend money than to spend it on sucky players.

and I agree, screw hope. I want wins.

I don't see how you you can say Hentgen or Stairs is "sucky" - both are proven MLB-quality players (when healthy); I agree that EY isn't a stud, but he's decent. And the real point is that Hentgen is better than Wright or Schoenweiss, Stairs is better (by a long shot) than Gload and EY is better than Harris/Uribe. And all were dirt cheap this off season. So yes, I'd want them on my team, as they would all make the team better than it is right now. But even if you quibble with the particular individuals noted, the point is that the Sox didn't have to take their payroll through the roof to be the best team in the Central. (For example, they would have signed Miguel Batista, LaTroy Hawkins and either Hitchcock or Carpenter for $10 million total in '04).

longshot7
03-22-2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I don't see how you you can say Hentgen or Stairs is "sucky" - both are proven MLB-quality players (when healthy); I agree that EY isn't a stud, but he's decent. And the real point is that Hentgen is better than Wright or Schoenweiss, Stairs is better (by a long shot) than Gload and EY is better than Harris/Uribe. And all were dirt cheap this off season. So yes, I'd want them on my team, as they would all make the team better than it is right now. But even if you quibble with the particular individuals noted, the point is that the Sox didn't have to take their payroll through the roof to be the best team in the Central. (For example, they would have signed Miguel Batista, LaTroy Hawkins and either Hitchcock or Carpenter for $10 million total in '04).

wel, no disagreement over the fact that I wish the sox would've spent some money this winter - but I do believe there's such a thing as spending it wisely or unwisely. The players you mentioned, imo, would have been unwise spendings. Young wasn't better than Uribe in 99 when I watched him everyday (and he sure isn't getting better with age) & I think Stairs is pretty much done. Making moves just to make them is silly - look at the Todd Ritchie trade. who knows, the midseason moves last year were pretty stellar, even if they didn't pan out - maybe KW has more up his sleeve.

Frater Perdurabo
03-22-2004, 03:53 PM
If they had just ponied up the money to keep some of the players they had developed from their own farm system, the Sox today would have Ray Durham leading off and playing a borderline All-Star level second base. Without making stupid trades, and for a similar modest increase in payroll, Kip Wells would be the #3 starter (pushing Garland to #4) and Mike Cameron would be playing a sweet center field.

I know I sound like a broken record, but the Sox don't need to go out and buy other teams' free agents, they just need to hang on to their own players and fill in as needed.

With Wells, Durham and Cameron (minus Konerko, but Frank sharing 1B/DH duties with Brian Daubach -- or Robin Ventura!), the Sox would be runaway favorites to repeat as AL Central champs this year.

I don't have a huge problem with not spending money on other teams' free agents. I do have a major problem with the Sox unwillingness to pay their own home-grown players.

Tragg
03-22-2004, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
If they had just ponied up the money to keep some of the players they had developed from their own farm system, the Sox today would have Ray Durham leading off and playing a borderline All-Star level second base. Without making stupid trades, and for a similar modest increase in payroll, Kip Wells would be the #3 starter (pushing Garland to #4) and Mike Cameron would be playing a sweet center field.

I know I sound like a broken record, but the Sox don't need to go out and buy other teams' free agents, they just need to hang on to their own players and fill in as needed.

With Wells, Durham and Cameron (minus Konerko, but Frank sharing 1B/DH duties with Brian Daubach -- or Robin Ventura!), the Sox would be runaway favorites to repeat as AL Central champs this year.



Well, Wells would be #2 starter- we wouldn't have Loiza either- or much of a bullpen, or a catcher.

But, your point is well taken- but we don't have Durham or Ventura because of $$ (Wells because of a dumbtrade)

anewman35
03-22-2004, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Joe:

Think about this...

Those four teams will all draw 2.5 million or more fans this year in part because they have shown those same fans they are serious about winning. Barring injuries they will all win 93 games, maybe more, and they will make money hand over foot because of that effort even with those large payrolls. Just look at the number of tickets the Yankees sold in the days after acquiring A-Rod. They have already paid for his salary and then some.

I could be wrong, but IIRC the Yankees have sold enough to cover THE DIFFERENCE between their portion of A-Rod's salary and Boone's/Soriano's salary, not A-Rod's entire salary. If I'm right, that's a few million, not $25 million (which is what you seem to be implying). I'm leaving work in a minute, so I can't find articles to back me up right now, but I can't imagine they've sold $25 million in extra tickets.

Lip Man 1
03-22-2004, 07:22 PM
Anewman:

You are correct. I was referring to this year's salary but even with those defined parameters, the Yankees are making money because the story I saw said they made over six million on ticket sales just in the immediate few days after the trade. FYI, I saw a story that said because of agreements in A-Rod's deal and so forth, New York is only paying him four million this year. Texas is making up the difference.

Sounds like smart business (again) to me by the Yanks. Wish the Sox would take a few business lessons from them!

Lip

anewman35
03-22-2004, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Anewman:

You are correct. I was referring to this year's salary but even with those defined parameters, the Yankees are making money because the story I saw said they made over six million on ticket sales just in the immediate few days after the trade. FYI, I saw a story that said because of agreements in A-Rod's deal and so forth, New York is only paying him four million this year. Texas is making up the difference.

Sounds like smart business (again) to me by the Yanks. Wish the Sox would take a few business lessons from them!


Sure, the Yankees may only be paying him $4 million this year, but over the life of his deal they are paying him something like $160 million, and there's no way he's going to bring in that much ticket revenue all by himself. I'd love for the Sox to make a deal like that, but I really can't blame JR for not committing that much money to something with no guaranteed return.

fquaye149
03-22-2004, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo

With Wells, Durham and Cameron (minus Konerko, but Frank sharing 1B/DH duties with Brian Daubach -- or Robin Ventura!), the Sox would be runaway favorites to repeat as AL Central champs this year.



see....when we sign konerko, we're stupid, but if he would have paid durham what we wanted, would that have been that great?

sure he ended up doing fairly well in SF, but at the time, would you have given up konerko for durham? i'm not sure that i would have. . .

gosox41
03-23-2004, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by fquaye149
see....when we sign konerko, we're stupid, but if he would have paid durham what we wanted, would that have been that great?

sure he ended up doing fairly well in SF, but at the time, would you have given up konerko for durham? i'm not sure that i would have. . .

Back when PK singed his extension I mentioned this in a post. And I was in favor of bringing Ray back. PK has always been overrated to me, even in his best season. Durham was cheaper, and filled a hole where the Sox had no depth. PK is just another average hitter who can't run all that well and is way overpaid.

Bob