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Realist
03-18-2004, 06:58 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-kiley18.html

SURPRISE, Ariz. -- Even after allowing six runs (five earned) and eight hits in four innings Wednesday, Greg Maddux was impressive. Asked about the Texas Rangers' four stolen bases against him in as many attempts, including three in one inning, the Cubs pitcher accepted all the blame and showed what a dependable teammate he will be.

Oh give me a friggin break. Alright. I'll admit that there's a touch of paranoia about the Chicago media when it comes to all of us Sox fans, but this crap is beyond rediculous. The guy straight out sucked canal water against the Rangers and the Sox player has never been born that would get a free pass on such a horrible outting as this guy. There's no way in hell he deserves a wet kiss.
:chunks

thepaulbowski
03-18-2004, 07:01 AM
The Chicago media at its finest....Hangar's best friend Kiley.

DrCrawdad
03-18-2004, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Realist
http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-kiley18.html

SURPRISE, Ariz. -- Even after allowing six runs (five earned) and eight hits in four innings Wednesday, Greg Maddux was impressive. Asked about the Texas Rangers' four stolen bases against him in as many attempts, including three in one inning, the Cubs pitcher accepted all the blame and showed what a dependable teammate he will be.

Oh give me a friggin break. Alright. I'll admit that there's a touch of paranoia about the Chicago media when it comes to all of us Sox fans, but this crap is beyond rediculous. The guy straight out sucked canal water against the Rangers and the Sox player has never been born that would get a free pass on such a horrible outting as this guy. There's no way in hell he deserves a wet kiss.
:chunks

Who's writing Kiley's checks, the Cubune? How does Kiley's Sun-Times editor(s) allow that crap to make it to print?

Oh, wait I'm not suppose to comment on this Cubbie matter...

MRKARNO
03-18-2004, 09:31 AM
I haven't agreed when some people have called out irresponsible journalism on this board, but this is blatently irresponisble journalism. Impressive? No! He was freakin pounded out there and the 1% of cub fans who are also baseball fans could even tell you that. Even if he had given up only 3 runs without the stolen bases, that is still far from impressive. Impressive is one run in four innings. Good is two, dissapointing is 3 or 4 and disaster is 5+. This was a disaster. Kiley, you are a complete and utter joke. For a pitcher whose ERA is generally under 3, this is horrible. And this is damning that Barrett sucks.

ode to veeck
03-18-2004, 09:37 AM
Impressive and dependable :

impressive in how much the guy with the HOF career is going to get pounded this year

dependable in how consistent he'll be at sucking this year

by the way, as far as the Flubs go, who the &*?&*%(?* cares!!
--move all such threads to the PL! This is the Sox Clubhouse.

jabrch
03-18-2004, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I haven't agreed when some people have called out irresponsible journalism on this board, but this is blatently irresponisble journalism. Impressive? No! He was freakin pounded out there and the 1% of cub fans who are also baseball fans could even tell you that. Even if he had given up only 3 runs without the stolen bases, that is still far from impressive. Impressive is one run in four innings. Good is two, dissapointing is 3 or 4 and disaster is 5+. This was a disaster. Kiley, you are a complete and utter joke. For a pitcher whose ERA is generally under 3, this is horrible. And this is damning that Barrett sucks.

I agree 100%. Usually I don't think the media jobs us as much as some here do. In this case, Kiley and his Cubsterbating is over-the-top. Kiley could have written a piece saying ST performance is irrelevant - Maddux gets shelled often in ST, etc. But to say he was still impressive is assinine.

Iwritecode
03-18-2004, 09:51 AM
From the same article:

NUMBERS GAME: Baker does not like the characterization that his 2003 offense underachieved, even though the standard quote out of the Cubs' clubhouse until September was that the offense hadn't clicked the way it could.

"You better check your stats,'' Baker said. "We were in the upper middle in offense. It's not like we were in the lower one-third.''

The stats dispute that contention. The Cubs were 11th out of 16 National League clubs with a .259 batting average. They were 11th in hits, ninth in runs, 10th in RBI and 13th in on-base percentage.

Can we keep a running tally of the number of times Baker says something stupid like this only to be proved wrong when somebody actually does look at the stats? I know it's happened at least 2-3 times this year already...

soxfan26
03-18-2004, 09:57 AM
:ritchie
"I knew by giving up 5 or more runs per start I was helping the team, wow, thanks Greg!"

Kittle
03-18-2004, 10:02 AM
I e-mailed Kiley and told him what I thought of his poor excuse for journalism. Probably won't do any good, but it's about all I can do without risking an arrest.

Kittle
03-18-2004, 10:02 AM
... and the e-mail was just bounced back to me. What a *****...

Grobber33
03-18-2004, 11:28 AM
I was down there(Az)for a week and saw both the Cubs and Sox(& I'm going back next week),and guess what,,you all wont want to hear this,but Maddux so far has looked the best of any starting Pitcher on either team. Does that really mean anything? Nope. The fact is Esty was hit hard early the other day,then settled down and the papers pointed that out. Ozzie has been his biggest critic,not the Writers. All Pitchers have rough outings, the fact is the Cubs do not play Texas this season,so Maddux may have been working on stuff against them. Schoenweis got hammered because he did'nt use his best pitch against the A's. Too many of you are making out too much about these worthless garbage games! Yes,the Sox left Mags,Frank,Carlos and Crede behind when they lost to the Cubs---big freakin deal! Those games(including Friday's so-called re-match at TEP)will be LONG FORGOTTEN in June & July when the Cubs and Sox play for real. Maddux has looked terriffic so far, that's the fact JACK! (STRIPES)

MRKARNO
03-18-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
I was down there(Az)for a week and saw both the Cubs and Sox(& I'm going back next week),and guess what,,you all wont want to hear this,but Maddux so far has looked the best of any starting Pitcher on either team. Does that really mean anything? Nope. The fact is Esty was hit hard early the other day,then settled down and the papers pointed that out. Ozzie has been his biggest critic,not the Writers. All Pitchers have rough outings, the fact is the Cubs do not play Texas this season,so Maddux may have been working on stuff against them. Schoenweis got hammered because he did'nt use his best pitch against the A's. Too many of you are making out too much about these worthless garbage games! Yes,the Sox left Mags,Frank,Carlos and Crede behind when they lost to the Cubs---big freakin deal! Those games(including Friday's so-called re-match at TEP)will be LONG FORGOTTEN in June & July when the Cubs and Sox play for real. Maddux has looked terriffic so far, that's the fact JACK! (STRIPES)

I realize that Maddux had been impressive before this start, but you can't call his latest start impressive unless you are an irrational person like Kiley is.

hold2dibber
03-18-2004, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
I was down there(Az)for a week and saw both the Cubs and Sox(& I'm going back next week),and guess what,,you all wont want to hear this,but Maddux so far has looked the best of any starting Pitcher on either team. Does that really mean anything? Nope. The fact is Esty was hit hard early the other day,then settled down and the papers pointed that out. Ozzie has been his biggest critic,not the Writers. All Pitchers have rough outings, the fact is the Cubs do not play Texas this season,so Maddux may have been working on stuff against them. Schoenweis got hammered because he did'nt use his best pitch against the A's. Too many of you are making out too much about these worthless garbage games! Yes,the Sox left Mags,Frank,Carlos and Crede behind when they lost to the Cubs---big freakin deal! Those games(including Friday's so-called re-match at TEP)will be LONG FORGOTTEN in June & July when the Cubs and Sox play for real. Maddux has looked terriffic so far, that's the fact JACK! (STRIPES)

But you'r completely missing the point. In his article, Kiley didn't say that he was working on stuff or that all pitchers have rough outings, etc. - he actually pretended that Maddux didn't have a rough outing. It's one thing for a writer to provide a player with excuses for a poor performance; it's another thing altogether to contend that what clearly was a terrible performance actually was an "impressive" performance.

jackbrohamer
03-18-2004, 12:06 PM
The point wasn't whether Maddux can still pitch. The point was was that a sportswriter for a major local newspaper describing his outing as "impressive" is idiotic and insulting to our intelligence.

SoxxoS
03-18-2004, 12:09 PM
I think if you statline for the game reveals a ERA over the number of 9.00, then it is IMPOSSIBLE for the pitcher to be "impressive."

Tekijawa
03-18-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
... the fact is the Cubs do not play Texas this season,so Maddux may have been working on stuff against them.

So is it safe to say that you don't see a Texas v. Cubs World Series then... or could this come back and bite them in the post season?

Sorry Grobbs it's a slow day at work!

Tekijawa
03-18-2004, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I realize that Maddux had been impressive before this start, but you can't call his latest start impressive unless you are an irrational person like Kiley is.


He was proving to the team what a great player he was, he wasn't concerned with his ERA!!! Good lord did you even read the article? :D:

Grobber33
03-18-2004, 12:24 PM
All I know is that after covering the 'Milwaukee' NCAA Regional this weekend,I cant wait to fly back down there(Az)Wed to get out of this crappy weather-again. Also get to cover the NCAA "Phoenix' regional semis & finals. SIU vs DE PAUL(yeah right,in my wildest dreams!!).

Dick Allen
03-18-2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
All I know is that after covering the 'Milwaukee' NCAA Regional this weekend,I cant wait to fly back down there(Az)Wed to get out of this crappy weather-again. Also get to cover the NCAA "Phoenix' regional semis & finals. SIU vs DE PAUL(yeah right,in my wildest dreams!!). Les, can I have your job? Please????????

joecrede
03-18-2004, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Maddux has looked terriffic so far, that's the fact JACK! (STRIPES)

I'm not going to dispute this Les, but what are you basing it on?

Grobber33
03-18-2004, 12:34 PM
I saw two of his outings,one of which he fanned 8(of the 9 he retired)and he's not really a K type of pitcher.He was getting ahead of hitters,and keeping his pitch count down like he always has when he's been on. I can only go by what I saw.
BTW, Juan Cruz does'nt look like he can get out any of the old WLS 89ers team we had back in the 1980's. HE REALLY SUCKS!!!

jabrch
03-18-2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
All I know is that after covering the 'Milwaukee' NCAA Regional this weekend,I cant wait to fly back down there(Az)Wed to get out of this crappy weather-again. Also get to cover the NCAA "Phoenix' regional semis & finals. SIU vs DE PAUL(yeah right,in my wildest dreams!!).


Come on Les - you have always been a stand up guy. Kiley called Maddux's outing impressive. How is that anything less than irresponsible journalism? I respect you because you are a Cubs fan who doesn't let that get in the way of having an objective perspective on the Cubs or the Sox, or the game as a whole. Kiley routinely does things like this. If Garland or Jeff Suppan had outings like that Kiley would write about what disasters the Sox/Cards pitching staffs are.

Maddux may have looked good when you saw him - but are you trying to defend Kiley's article that said that he looked "impressive" out there? I agree it is a worthless spring training game. I agree the stats are crap. But he got shalacked. Suck it up Kiley - change your article that you wrote three days before EXPECTING a good outing. Write about how even a veteran pitcher needs to work it out in ST. But don't put crap like that out there. It ruins what little credibility Kiley has. Les, you can't be defending that article - can you?

Grobber33
03-18-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Come on Les - you have always been a stand up guy. Kiley called Maddux's outing impressive. How is that anything less than irresponsible journalism?
Maddux may have looked good when you saw him - but are you trying to defend Kiley's article that said that he looked "impressive" out there?
It ruins what little credibility Kiley has. Les, you can't be defending that article - can you?

Let's make this clear! I never said anything about Kiley's article.I did not see Maddux Wednesday,but no,I would'nt call him impressive on that day--and I dont think Greg would either since he has ALSO been very honest.

MRKARNO
03-18-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
I saw two of his outings,one of which he fanned 8(of the 9 he retired)and he's not really a K type of pitcher.He was getting ahead of hitters,and keeping his pitch count down like he always has when he's been on. I can only go by what I saw.


Fair enough. But wouldn't you agree that it is ridiculous to call 6 ER in 4 IP "impressive?"

jabrch
03-18-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Let's make this clear! I never said anything about Kiley's article.I did not see Maddux Wednesday,but no,I would'nt call him impressive on that day--and I dont think Greg would either since he has ALSO been very honest.

Cool - just wanted to make sure I understood. We were all talking about a crappy article and you started to talk about how good Maddux looked when you saw him. Those are two very different points. Maddux could have looked very good in two outings, but looked like absolute crap yesterday. Kiley seemed to not think so. We were commenting on what an idiot he looks like and how unprofessional Kiley's article was, not on Maddux himself or on any of Maddux's prior performances.

joecrede
03-18-2004, 01:03 PM
Just an observation, but for whatever reason, I don't think you can trust the Chicago sports media to be objective about Maddux's performance this year. Kiley isn't even the worst offender. Ever read Barry Rozner's columns on Maddux? They are laughable when it comes to objectivity.

Hangar18
03-18-2004, 01:10 PM
Im a bit under the weather today, but I did see this Article and I could only laugh LOUDLY. One can tell that Kiley wanted to write that Maddux was "impressive" so badly, that he ignored
the facts of his outing, and I saw the replays, the Guy got Pounded. Mike Kiley today got out of his "3rd person" today and simply wrote off the cuff, his own personal feelings, something thats a No-No when your a beat reporter. we all know of course that Kiley is also the Biggest Fan (applauding and crediting the rooftop owners for the Maddux signing-Ignoring the Fact that Maddux was signed because NOONE else gave him a decent offer)

Kiley also in the same Article, inserts his Trademark "Kiley-ism" in calling Maddux a "dependable teammate" for owning up to the 4 steals against him. What a bunch of Bull! Unfortuneately,
because of the sheer stupidity of Cub Fans, they will use BOTH of these "Facts" and use it all season.

CubFan1: dude, even though Maddux gave up 6 runs, man,
he was still "impressive"!!
CubFan2: I know man, he even took the flak for the 4 stolen
bases man.........What a "Dependable Teammate" hes going to be

Now you realize why I dismiss Mike Kiley. The Cubs and Cubune have him in their back pocket. Anyone noticed how between 3 and 4 times, KILEY HIMSELF has pointed out Bakers "thats the facts jack-thats history man" erroneous comments, but NEVER Called him out on it? The guys afraid Baker wont be his Pal anymore. Message to Kiley. Your job is to REPORT the news, NOT be a cubbie mouthpiece.

Mickster
03-18-2004, 01:30 PM
Preach on Hangar! I tried sending Kiley an email but it got bounced back twice. Anyone have a better address for this clown. Sun Times online provides: mkiley@suntimes.com

sas1974
03-18-2004, 01:30 PM
Maybe we are looking at this all wrong. Perhaps someone changed the definition of "impressive" and just didn't tell us. If that's the case, Scho was also "impressive" yesterday.

Hangar18
03-18-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Let's make this clear! I never said anything about Kiley's article.I did not see Maddux Wednesday,but no,I would'nt call him impressive on that day--and I dont think Greg would either since he has ALSO been very honest.

Les, do me a favor and READ Kileys Cubpoganda Piece and tell
me if its worthy of a

A: Major Newspaper in a Major Metropolitan city
B: better suited for a high school paper in the midwest

That Piece was awful and evidence enough that the CHicago Media cant help themselves with all of their CUBTASTIC media
coverage. Les I noticed you didnt really answer the question (you did some Dusty Juke-and-Jiving just now) when you simply said you saw MADDUX the 2wice and he was good. That wasnt the Question and That Statement would been "objected" to in a court of law with the judge telling "Mr Grobstein, please...answer the question. did you READ the article?)

Why DOESNT he have the Stones to
call out the CUbs on some very Major (yet ignored on his part)
Issues the last 2 yrs? Is he too much of a cubfan to report
the news? (steroids and bakers involvement, sammys use of steroids, bakers bigoted comments last season, bakers continued spouting off of "facts" that are indeed FALSE, yet not reported as so)

The Critic
03-18-2004, 01:48 PM
Maybe I misread it, but I thought Kiley was saying that the impressive thing was Maddux admitting that he stunk.
I'll have to read it again, but I could've sworn he was praising the fact that Maddux took the blame for his crappy start.

Hangar18
03-18-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by The Critic
Maybe I misread it, but I thought Kiley was saying that the impressive thing was Maddux admitting that he stunk.
I'll have to read it again, but I could've sworn he was praising the fact that Maddux took the blame for his crappy start.

No....thats not it. Kiley "praised" Maddux for owning up to the
fact that HE let the Rangers get 4 stolen bases on him. But Mr Kiley, what the Hell is Maddux gonna say? "It wasnt my fault for the 4 stolen bases, I wasnt even pitching today".
Of course not Kiley. Your Yellow and got "caught" my cub-loving
friend .......

Mickster
03-18-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by The Critic
Maybe I misread it, but I thought Kiley was saying that the impressive thing was Maddux admitting that he stunk.
I'll have to read it again, but I could've sworn he was praising the fact that Maddux took the blame for his crappy start.

Problem is, if ANY pitcher were asked how they did after an outing such as Maddux, they would also admit that they stunk.

Are all pitchers who get shelled in 3 innings while admitting that they stunk also impressive?

Realist
03-18-2004, 02:17 PM
Maybe we're all being a little too hard on Mr. Kiley. One of the first rules of writing is "know your audience". He's writing for Cubs fans. This is what most Cubs fans want to hear and this is how most Cubs fans think. We, as Sox fans, all know that better than anyone. If a beat writer for the Cubs ever started telling it like it is, they'd start getting nasty emails from the Cubs fans instead of us.

As for why I didn't post this thread in the Parking Lot, it has to do with my comment on the article. No Sox player would ever be treated this kindly in the Chicago media after such a ferociously horrible outting.

Hope you're feeling better, Hangar.

kittle42
03-18-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Realist
Maybe we're all being a little too hard on Mr. Kiley. One of the first rules of writing is "know your audience". He's writing for Cubs fans. This is what most Cubs fans want to hear and this is how most Cubs fans think. We, as Sox fans, all know that better than anyone. If a beat writer for the Cubs ever started telling it like it is, they'd start getting nasty emails from the Cubs fans instead of us.

I had the same thought when the small piece about Loaiza stinking it up for two innings and then straightening it out was in the paper yesterday. They could have just written about how horrible the first few innings were and how maybe he wasn't meeting Guillen's challenge of the previous day. However, the story was positive.

ChiSoxBobette
03-18-2004, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Realist
http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-kiley18.html

SURPRISE, Ariz. -- Even after allowing six runs (five earned) and eight hits in four innings Wednesday, Greg Maddux was impressive. Asked about the Texas Rangers' four stolen bases against him in as many attempts, including three in one inning, the Cubs pitcher accepted all the blame and showed what a dependable teammate he will be.

Oh give me a friggin break. Alright. I'll admit that there's a touch of paranoia about the Chicago media when it comes to all of us Sox fans, but this crap is beyond rediculous. The guy straight out sucked canal water against the Rangers and the Sox player has never been born that would get a free pass on such a horrible outting as this guy. There's no way in hell he deserves a wet kiss.
:chunks

SOMEONE EXPLAIN HOW YOU CAN BE IMPRESSIVE BUT GET SHELLED! OH I SEE IF YOU PLAY FOR THE scrubs.

Iwritecode
03-18-2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Realist
Maybe we're all being a little too hard on Mr. Kiley. One of the first rules of writing is "know your audience". He's writing for Cubs fans. This is what most Cubs fans want to hear and this is how most Cubs fans think. We, as Sox fans, all know that better than anyone. If a beat writer for the Cubs ever started telling it like it is, they'd start getting nasty emails from the Cubs fans instead of us.

Right.

Because if they ever started printing the truth about the Cubs, then they wouldn't be able to draw almost 3 million in a season where they lose almost 100 games.

It's much better to right articles while drinking Cubbie kool-aid and wearing rose-colored glasses.

And people actually wonder why Sox fans complain about the media bias in this city?

hftrex
03-18-2004, 05:19 PM
Couldn't help but notice that Lip hasn't posted in this thread yet. Could it be that he couldn't figure out how to work in his obligatory rant about Reinsdorf being "cheap"?

hftrex
03-18-2004, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Just an observation, but for whatever reason, I don't think you can trust the Chicago sports media to be objective about Maddux's performance this year. Kiley isn't even the worst offender. Ever read Barry Rozner's columns on Maddux? They are laughable when it comes to objectivity.


If you think that what Rozner scribbles down about Maddux is "laughable," then you ought to see what he's written about Brian Sutter and how he's ruined the potential of the young Hawks. This is really funny since outside of Anderson, Ruutu and Vandermeer and perhaps 1 or 2 others, hardly any of the young Hawks ever had the potential to be anything more than glorified roster filler. Don't get me started about how Rozner's handled the little incident in the Nashville bar between Sutter and the Garlandesque Tyler Arnason................