PDA

View Full Version : What is WSI's opinion on Joe Borchard?


BackInBlack
03-17-2004, 08:46 PM
Is this guy a legit prospect, or is he just another Drew Henson filled with potential but never living up to it? I understand he's injured at this point. What kind of numbers was he putting up before the injury? We dropped FIVE MILLION BUCKS on this guy to pry him away from Stanford. Will he be worth the gamble, or did other teams know not to draft him? WHO WOULD YOU RATE AS THE SOX'S TOP 3 PROSPECTS?

gogosoxgogo
03-17-2004, 08:52 PM
Borchard was a bust. I'm in the minority as I've noticed a lot of people at WSI seem to like this guy. Most are impressed with his power. While they see that, I'm totally turned off by his strike zone judgement. Borchard strikes out way too much and walks way too little. I also don't think he's a pure center fielder. I think he's more suited for the corners. Even before all of his injuries, I thought he was overhyped.

My top three prospects are:

1. Kris Honel
2. Jeremey Reed
3. Brian Anderson, though the wrist injury makes me reluctant to put him here

SoxBoy14
03-17-2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack
Is this guy a legit prospect, or is he just another Drew Henson filled with potential but never living up to it? I understand he's injured at this point. What kind of numbers was he putting up before the injury? We dropped FIVE MILLION BUCKS on this guy to pry him away from Stanford. Will he be worth the gamble, or did other teams know not to draft him? WHO WOULD YOU RATE AS THE SOX'S TOP 3 PROSPECTS?

Last year the first time I saw him step up to bat he nailed one to right field and it looked like he killed the ball he swung so hard. The rest of the year he seemed to strike out every at bat. I don't think the Sox should hang on to him much longer unless he has major improvement this year. I haven't been following ST that much so my opinion doesn't meen anything on our top three prospects, but I like Uribe better than Harris as a fielder and hitter.

RichFitztightly
03-17-2004, 08:58 PM
My opinion is that I no longer have a flowing well of optimism that he'll pan out as a star player. However, I'm going to sit on the fence a little while longer so I don't make a bold prediction and look stupid like I inevitably do.

Daver
03-17-2004, 09:06 PM
Randar and I did a top ten list at the end of last season,you can see it here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=3&id=2354)

delben91
03-17-2004, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Randar and I did a top ten list at the end of last season,you can see it here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=3&id=2354)

Huh, I never saw that before, wonder how I missed it. That's some great info you and Randar put together though Daver. Thanks for the effort!

jeremyb1
03-17-2004, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack
Is this guy a legit prospect, or is he just another Drew Henson filled with potential but never living up to it? I understand he's injured at this point. What kind of numbers was he putting up before the injury? We dropped FIVE MILLION BUCKS on this guy to pry him away from Stanford. Will he be worth the gamble, or did other teams know not to draft him? WHO WOULD YOU RATE AS THE SOX'S TOP 3 PROSPECTS?

Its hard to consider him a top prospect after his struggles last season. However, he was outstanding at AA in '01. Giving up on him would be premature in my opinion.

kermittheefrog
03-17-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Its hard to consider him a top prospect after his struggles last season. However, he was outstanding at AA in '01. Giving up on him would be premature in my opinion.

How can you say its hard to consider Borchard a top prospect and yet say Rauch has the most upside of anyone in our system?

StockdaleForVeep
03-17-2004, 11:41 PM
Highly regarded White Sox prospect Joe Borchard, limited all spring by a strained quad, will begin the season at Triple A Charlotte, where he has spent the last three seasons. Rather than push the injury, the team will shut him down now and send him back to Charlotte. Lefty Ross Gload likely played a role in that decision by hitting .344 in Cactus League play this spring. "Right now, in my mind, he's on my team," manager Ozzie Guillen told the Chicago Tribune. "There's no doubt about it."

MRKARNO
03-17-2004, 11:44 PM
If he doesnt show that he is legitamitely the OF of the future this year, he never will. He needs to hit 25+ homers at both Charlotte and the major league level combined or else he's done, because he has power and not much else at this point, so if the power isn't there, he doesn't stand a chance. But if it is there, then he could be back in our good graces once again. If he does come to fruition, then I might expect a trade of him considering we have 3 legit prospects behind him (Sweeney, Reed, Anderson) and a full outfield as it is (Rowand has yet to falter).

ode to veeck
03-18-2004, 12:28 AM
If he can stay healthy long enough to stay in the show for awhile, it can be really valuable to have someone who has good power from both sides of the plate. I'm not saying he's the next Mickie Mantle or Eddie Murray or even Jose Valentin in his prime, but it would be nice to have. Stayin' healthy seems to be the key to the next step for him though. Two years in a row with a free pass at staying the same due to injuries.

Realist
03-18-2004, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Randar and I did a top ten list at the end of last season,you can see it here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=3&id=2354)

I dunno which one of you wrote the bit on Sweeney, but I like the idea of switching him to 1st base. For some reason, Jim Spencer sprung to mind.

The kid seems to have a bigger "pair" than Borchard and Rausch combined. It's going to be fun to watch him develope.

whitesoxwilkes
03-18-2004, 09:14 AM
I'm pretty tempted to throw on Borchard the label that many throw on Rowand--a 4 A player.

fledgedrallycap
03-18-2004, 09:29 AM
Borchard is trade bait at this point, unfortunately his value has decreased considerablly due to lackluster performances in the minors.

With Reed, Anderson and Sweeney all on his heels and playing much better; he'll be packaged for a Starting Pitcher.

idseer
03-18-2004, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
If he can stay healthy long enough to stay in the show for awhile, it can be really valuable to have someone who has good power from both sides of the plate. I'm not saying he's the next Mickie Mantle or Eddie Murray or even Jose Valentin in his prime, but it would be nice to have. Stayin' healthy seems to be the key to the next step for him though. Two years in a row with a free pass at staying the same due to injuries.

wow! to consider jose as even a poor man's mantle is rather unbelievable. do you not know how crappy a player valentin was? even at his best?
and to suggest if borchard can't even be THAT good makes borchard look REALLY bad.

imo borchard is toast. he should be dumped asap to anyone who still believes he has potential and let's move on. maybe he can still throw the ole football. let him try out for the bears.
i think you can take more time with pitchers in cases like this but for positional players, unless they're lights out fielders, it's good money after bad.

poorme
03-18-2004, 09:53 AM
i still think he can be ok.

a .250 35 homer kind of guy with good defense in RF

ode to veeck
03-18-2004, 10:25 AM
wow! to consider jose as even a poor man's mantle is rather unbelievable. do you not know how crappy a player valentin was? even at his best?

I didn't even remotely intend to say Manos was comparable to Mantle or Murray. Rather I was making the point switch hitting power is a valuable and somewhat unusual thing to have on your roster.

In his prime however, Jose had decent #s (~ .250ba, .330obp, 25HRs) and usable power from both sides of the plate, which is a good thing to have in the lineup, and more valuable that the stats will tell. If we want to debate how valuable Jose was or wasn't at his prime, we can start a different thread, and also include other intangibles than pure stats.

Sure Borchard's injured again and ought to be considered if we're trading for one of our holes (a SP, a bona fide lead off, etc), but otherwise, I wouldn't dump him outright. Borchard's combination of overall skills would be nice to have if he can get and stay healthy, especially if his trade value's dropping.

MRKARNO
03-18-2004, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by poorme
i still think he can be ok.

a .250 35 homer kind of guy with good defense in RF

That would be great, but I think it's too much to expect. His ceiling is Jim Thome lite IMO, but his chances of reaching that ceiling is falling.

Paulwny
03-18-2004, 11:02 AM
I agree with MRKARNO's early post. He has to put up numbers this year.

TaylorStSox
03-18-2004, 02:00 PM
I think you guys are all a little premature. He's been injured an awful lot to write him off. He'll never hit .320. However, he has good power, speed and a glove. Plus, he's got a hell of an arm. When's the last time we had an outfielder with a rocket for an arm? I'd love to see one guy in our outfield that put fear in runner's. Thats one of the major reasons the Twin's have killed us the last few years. They take the extra base on any ball that reaches the outfield.

Give him time. He'll make it. He's no Drew Henson.

sas1974
03-18-2004, 02:39 PM
I agree that injuries have really limited his ability the last season or two. His time is running out though. He needs to get healthy and produce this year. I think he's getting too old to be considered a "prospect," but I think he still has a great deal of value. I am willing to give him this season to prove he was worth the $5.6MM.

kittle42
03-18-2004, 02:59 PM
Joe Borchard sucks.

kermittheefrog
03-18-2004, 03:30 PM
Okay anyone saying Sweeney and/or Anderson are on Borchard's heels is just flat out wrong. Neither of them have much minor league experience. They are practically unknowns. You'd have to be a fool to count on either of them over Borchard.

MRKARNO
03-18-2004, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Okay anyone saying Sweeney and/or Anderson are on Borchard's heels is just flat out wrong. Neither of them have much minor league experience. They are practically unknowns. You'd have to be a fool to count on either of them over Borchard.

But the people who say that Reed is right behind or even ahead of Borchard are correct too. I would hope the Sox game Reed a bit of time, but if Borchard and Rowand are both sucking, no reason to think Reed isnt on the way.

jeremyb1
03-18-2004, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
How can you say its hard to consider Borchard a top prospect and yet say Rauch has the most upside of anyone in our system?

No offense Kermit but I expected a lot more from you. At no point did I ever say Rauch has the most upside of anyone in our system. My exact quote was "he has upside unlike many other pitchers in our system". First of all we need to differentiate between upside and being a good prospect. Upside is synonomous with potential wheras prospect status must also take into consideration the player's chances of reaching his upside. So, Rauch's upside could be a Cy Young calliber pitcher yet he has a 1 in 6 chance of ever sticking as a solid pitcher and a 1 in 15 chance of ever becomming a Cy Young award winner so he's not a great prospect since its highly likely his health or general ineffectiveness after surgery won't allow him to get very far. At no point did I say anything to indicate I consider Rauch to be a top prospect. He has too many question marks at this point. Also, since I said "unlike many other pitchers in the system" that by no means indicates he has higher upside than Honel or even someone like Ryan Wing who doesn't impress me a ton. You're really putting a lot of words into my mouth here.

Additionally, my comment about upside was not only limited to potential but also to pitchers. Therefore, I don't see how it has any bearing on my comments regarding Borchard. I feel like Borchard is somewhat similar to Rauch in that he has a great deal of potential as a power hitting CF with pretty good plate discipline if he puts it back together but he's had two dissapointing seasons in a row and last season was pretty ugly. He's also gotten worse each of the past two seasons. I don't think that bodes particularly well for his chances of being a great player in the future. However, since he's shown oustanding performance in '01, he previously devoted a lot of time to football, and he is considered to be a huge tools player, I think it would be a huge mistake to write him off. I don't know how you can consider it probable for a guy that performed as poorly as Borchard did last season to have a strong chance of becoming a very good major league regular which I think is the criteria for being a top prospect.

The only players I'd consider top prospects in our organization are Reed and Honel. No other player made Baseball America's top 100 prospects or was even considered a possible candidate for BP's top 50 prospects so I don't feel like I'm going out on a huge limb here. I don't know what reputable sources consider Borchard a top prospect at this point even though I do still think he has a shot at being a good player.