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View Full Version : Koch Looks Improved


SoxBoy14
03-14-2004, 04:07 PM
I was watching a couple innings of todays ST game against the Giants and Koch was pitching. He almost threw a 3 up 3 down but Lee lost sight of the ball in the sun. Anyways his pitching seemed way more improved than last year. He looks to have picked up speed and control on his pitches. Maybe he's returned to his old self. hopefully.....

dickallen15
03-14-2004, 04:13 PM
He was only hitting 90 on the gun. Gave up one rocket hit, and a bloop. He had impressive numbers last spring. Remember, he was pitching today against a split squad Giants team. I don't think he faced one major leaguer. I am not confident in his future success. Trying to pass his loss of velocity on mechanics is laughable.

mealfred13
03-14-2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
He was only hitting 90 on the gun. Gave up one rocket hit, and a bloop. He had impressive numbers last spring. Remember, he was pitching today against a split squad Giants team. I don't think he faced one major leaguer. I am not confident in his future success. Trying to pass his loss of velocity on mechanics is laughable.

Blah Blah Blah....I'm so sick of everyone's negativity. Who cares if he was hitting ONLY 90. He got outs, that's all that matters. And he's been getting outs all spring. When he starts to blow saves during April, then you can chew our ears off about him being horrible. And if it wasn't mechanics, what else could cause someone who is no noticeably different shape than a year or two ago to lose speed on his fastball...

SoxFan76
03-14-2004, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
He was only hitting 90 on the gun. Gave up one rocket hit, and a bloop. He had impressive numbers last spring. Remember, he was pitching today against a split squad Giants team. I don't think he faced one major leaguer. I am not confident in his future success. Trying to pass his loss of velocity on mechanics is laughable.

WOW, lighten up man. You can really bring down the mood.

owensmouth
03-14-2004, 04:23 PM
I hope he'll do as well in the regular season. He did well last year in ST. Remember, by the time Koch gets in in ST, the regulars are gone.

dickallen15
03-14-2004, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by mealfred13
Blah Blah Blah....I'm so sick of everyone's negativity. Who cares if he was hitting ONLY 90. He got outs, that's all that matters. And he's been getting outs all spring. When he starts to blow saves during April, then you can chew our ears off about him being horrible. And if it wasn't mechanics, what else could cause someone who is no noticeably different shape than a year or two ago to lose speed on his fastball...

He has some sort of injury. If it was mechanics, wouldn't he be lucky once in a while and have proper mechanics, and get the 10mph back? I am not negative, in fact I usually go against the grain, if you look back at my posts. But if you watched the game, and listen to Hawk and KW bs the listeners about how Koch has good control, please. Koch was throwing 2 mph harder than Mike Jackson. Gas is Koch's game, even when he had it , he struggled at times. He doesn't have it anymore. Regular season, against real major league hitters, he would still get lit up. The gun said 90 for Koch, what is there that's different from last year to make anyone optimistic?

SoxFan76
03-14-2004, 04:30 PM
He has better control and is learning to become a pitcher instead of a thrower. That is what is different from last year. He had all of last year and the off-season to work on getting better. That is why I am optimistic.

SoxBoy14
03-14-2004, 04:33 PM
His goatee is getting longer too.

dickallen15
03-14-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
He has better control and is learning to become a pitcher instead of a thrower. That is what is different from last year. He had all of last year and the off-season to work on getting better. That is why I am optimistic.

That's the company line, but I guarantee you KW would sleep better at night if he was back up to 98 mph. I hope he has 50 saves, I just don't think he'll do much better than last year.

Daver
03-14-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
The gun said 90 for Koch, what is there that's different from last year to make anyone optimistic?

Well there is the fact that he is squring to the plate and following through to the plate as opposed to falling off the mound as he did last year,that is a change in mechanics that improves control.It is also a mechanical change that tends to allow a pitcher to keep the ball down a bit more in the zone,as opposed to hanging in the heart of the plate.

Please continue to judge pitchers strictly by what the gun reads.


But then again what the hell do I know? ©

SoxBoy14
03-14-2004, 04:43 PM
He seems more relaxed on the mound as well. Although that's probably because it's ST. Last year he seemed so nervous and almost scared on the mound that you knew he was going to screw up. If he continues to get more comfortable on the mound he'll start doing some better pitching.

dickallen15
03-14-2004, 04:46 PM
He still throws straight, and his control is not very good, regardless of what Kenny or Hawk will tell you. I thought the reason the White Sox traded for Koch was because he threw hard, and they didn't like the fact Foulke didn't. Ironically, Foulke probably throws harder than Koch now, and has a great change.

mealfred13
03-14-2004, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by SoxBoy14
His goatee is getting longer too.

Hahaha. Seriously though, even if he's throwing at the same speed as last year, at least he's not TRYING to throw harder. Have you ever tried to throw a fastball as hard as you could? I have, and it ended up 6 feet above the batter's head. Keep it smooth, and you have accuracy...That's what he's doing this year.

poorme
03-14-2004, 05:08 PM
He looked ok. His curveball is pretty good, if he can throw it for strikes consistently. He could post a 3.80 ERA if everything goes right. He'll never be dominant again.

Hangar18
03-15-2004, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by dickallen15
I thought the reason the White Sox traded for Koch was because he threw hard, and they didn't like the fact Foulke didn't. Ironically, Foulke probably throws harder than Koch now, and has a great change.

That reason is what the SOX fed its fans. The REAL REASON
was because they didnt want to PAY FOULKE and thought they could save$$ on arbitration and just get "rid" of him.
The SOX got Burned. Again.

gosox41
03-15-2004, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
He has better control and is learning to become a pitcher instead of a thrower. That is what is different from last year. He had all of last year and the off-season to work on getting better. That is why I am optimistic.

Is his fastball still straight as an arrow?

Bob

poorme
03-15-2004, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Is his fastball still straight as an arrow?

Bob

it looked pretty straight to me.

Kittle
03-15-2004, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by dickallen15
He has some sort of injury. If it was mechanics, wouldn't he be lucky once in a while and have proper mechanics, and get the 10mph back? I am not negative, in fact I usually go against the grain, if you look back at my posts. But if you watched the game, and listen to Hawk and KW bs the listeners about how Koch has good control, please. Koch was throwing 2 mph harder than Mike Jackson. Gas is Koch's game, even when he had it , he struggled at times. He doesn't have it anymore. Regular season, against real major league hitters, he would still get lit up. The gun said 90 for Koch, what is there that's different from last year to make anyone optimistic?

I completely agree. And I don't buy Hawk and KW's bullcrap either. If Koch doesn't have excellent command and a good offspeed pitch, he'll get shelled again this year.

Huisj
03-15-2004, 10:56 AM
some people will attack me for this probably, but after watching him yesterday, I think the dude's washed up. He's not throwing hard, and his control is not great. His offspeed stuff is not too good. His stuff looks extremely hittable. If his ERA is under 4.5 this year, I'll be surprised. If he doesn't go on the DL at somepoint this year, I'll also be surprised.

I don't care how much announcers and GMs will talk a guy up--of course they aren't going to rip on him on the air. But his stuff really looked average to me yesterday. Could have well been Gary Glover out there, or Matt Karchner.

gosox41
03-16-2004, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by Huisj
some people will attack me for this probably, but after watching him yesterday, I think the dude's washed up. He's not throwing hard, and his control is not great. His offspeed stuff is not too good. His stuff looks extremely hittable. If his ERA is under 4.5 this year, I'll be surprised. If he doesn't go on the DL at somepoint this year, I'll also be surprised.

I don't care how much announcers and GMs will talk a guy up--of course they aren't going to rip on him on the air. But his stuff really looked average to me yesterday. Could have well been Gary Glover out there, or Matt Karchner.

And we can all thank KW for this mess. I love bashing KW for this Koch trade because it was so obivoulsy dumb to make.

Kock cost the Sox the 2003 division. The fact is while PK was a bust and the offense didn't show up the first half, the Sox were in it. Instead of getting 37 innings and a 5.50 ERA out of Koch all they had to do was keep Foulke and they would have had 80 IP and a 2.50 ERA.


IMHO that single trade KW made wipes out all the aggressive moves he made in getting Alomar, Everett, and Colon. He took 3 steps forward there, and Koch easily set the 2003 team back those 3 staps to make it a wash.

Of course I won't even get into how Koch is going to hurt hte 2004 team on the field, how his 2004 salary prevented the Sox from making any moves this off season, or how the Sox lost the opportunity for 2 top draft picks assuming Foulke would have left the Sox after 2003. Once Koch is a free agent, no way does he get the Sox two draft picks.

Enough of the Koch ranting.....for now. The whole thing pisses me off so much I'm going to have these rants a lot.

Bob

wdelaney72
03-16-2004, 08:30 AM
Koch is done.

His fastball is less than fast (with no movement). He'll look the same as last year, unfortunately.

What scares me is that this year, we don't have Tom Gordon to step in and clean up the mess.

mealfred13
03-16-2004, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
Koch is done.

His fastball is less than fast (with no movement). He'll look the same as last year, unfortunately.

What scares me is that this year, we don't have Tom Gordon to step in and clean up the mess.

But we got Mr. Zero!!!!!!

chisoxjk
03-16-2004, 12:55 PM
Koch's line so far this spring....

5IP, 4H, 0ER, 5K

I'm not saying he is back, or he is going to have a monster year, but if he is pitching as bad as some people say, why hasn't he been shelled this spring? Has he only pitched to minor leaguers?

A big part of his problem last year was between his ears. Just getting people out consistently and not giving up the long ball is going to help with that tremendously.

At least it's not as bad as last year when I officially changed his first name from Billy to F'in. It seemed like every time I saw him come into a game I was screaming F'in Koch.

Frater Perdurabo
03-16-2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
That reason is what the SOX fed its fans. The REAL REASON
was because they didnt want to PAY FOULKE and thought they could save$$ on arbitration and just get "rid" of him.
The SOX got Burned. Again.

And they ended up with another post-1990 Bobby Thigpen, a gas can instead of a flamethrower.

hftrex
03-16-2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by chisoxjk
Koch's line so far this spring....

5IP, 4H, 0ER, 5K

I'm not saying he is back, or he is going to have a monster year, but if he is pitching as bad as some people say, why hasn't he been shelled this spring? Has he only pitched to minor leaguers?

A big part of his problem last year was between his ears. Just getting people out consistently and not giving up the long ball is going to help with that tremendously.

At least it's not as bad as last year when I officially changed his first name from Billy to F'in. It seemed like every time I saw him come into a game I was screaming F'in Koch.

Last year, Koch had a 0.82 ERA in ST. Its likely that history will repeat itself and his ERA will once again reach the stratosphere by season's end.

skottyj242
03-16-2004, 02:09 PM
Leave my guy alone. He'll be good this year.

dickallen15
03-16-2004, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
That reason is what the SOX fed its fans. The REAL REASON
was because they didnt want to PAY FOULKE and thought they could save$$ on arbitration and just get "rid" of him.
The SOX got Burned. Again.

This is true, but the White Sox have been fascinated with the gun forever. Ironically, of all their young "stud" pitchers they supposedly had, Buerhle, the softest tosser of them all, had the best success. The other funny thing is, they will wind up paying Koch more than they would have paid Foulke. Foulke would have walked at the end of last year. That would have freed up enough money for Gordon, and/or Urbina. When KW screws up a trade, he really screws up.

jeremyb1
03-17-2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
This is true, but the White Sox have been fascinated with the gun forever. Ironically, of all their young "stud" pitchers they supposedly had, Buerhle, the softest tosser of them all, had the best success.

I don't know. The jury may still be out on that. Kip Wells pitched circles around Buehrle last season while dialing it up to the mid 90s.

SoxBoy14
03-17-2004, 05:17 PM
The season after we traded Foulke(his bad season) he got 50 saves. Maybe Koch will get 50 saves after his bad season. I know it's a stupid thought but who knows?