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MaggPipes
03-12-2004, 04:56 PM
Hey guys, I haven't posted in awhile, but I am writing my senior research paper for school on joe and if you have any articles on him, and would be willing to give me a link or any suggestions on books on him being reinstated i would really apreciate it.... thanks

jackbrohamer
03-12-2004, 05:22 PM
There's a site called www.blackbetsy.com that one of his relatives (I think) started with a lot of background info. and information on reinstatement attempts on his behalf.

Hokiesox
03-12-2004, 05:25 PM
I did my senior thesis on him and the formation of the commissioner's office. Once you do the research, you have to come to the sad conclusion that he did take the money. And he knew why he was taking it. Yeah, he tried to give it back, but that was too late.

Don't listen to blackbetsy.com, they aint objective about the whole affair.

...this if you want to talk about the blacksox scandal, which I focused on. If you want to talk about him as a player, I can't help ya! Good luck. :)

santo=dorf
03-12-2004, 05:37 PM
I remember when I wrote my senior research paper in high school on the Black Sox, I used a book entitled Say it ain't so. I don't remember the author's name, but it did provide a lot of material on his personal life.

npdempse
03-12-2004, 05:51 PM
For placing the scandal in context, Harold Seymour's "Baseball the Golden Age" is pretty good.

I saw a while back a book that had transcripts of the court hearings, but can't for the life of me remember which book it was--anybody?

A somewhat interesting perspective on Jackson from a stats standpoint is Schell's "Baseball's All-Time Best Hitters." After adjusting for era, park factors, age, etc., Joe is still in the top 10.

MarkEdward
03-12-2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by MaggPipes
Hey guys, I haven't posted in awhile, but I am writing my senior research paper for school on joe and if you have any articles on him, and would be willing to give me a link or any suggestions on books on him being reinstated i would really apreciate it.... thanks

"Eight Men Out" by Eliot Asinof is probably the best source of information on the Black Sox scandal. It's a great overall read too.

Rob Neyer wrote a great article on Jackson a while ago, though I can't find it right now. If you search hard enough, I'm sure it's in his archives somewhere.

jackbrohamer
03-12-2004, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
"Eight Men Out" by Eliot Asinof is probably the best source of information on the Black Sox scandal. It's a great overall read too.

It is a great book, he actually talked to some of the players (who didn't want to talk about the scandal). Be careful though because some of the things in it have been shown to be inaccurate (e.g., Comiskey apparently did not keep Cicotte out of games to avoid paying him a bonus)

Railsplitter
03-13-2004, 08:39 AM
If you have access to a library with newspapers from the era, try those, if only to get a flavor of the opinion at the time.

joepoe
03-13-2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Hokiesox
I did my senior thesis on him and the formation of the commissioner's office. Once you do the research, you have to come to the sad conclusion that he did take the money. And he knew why he was taking it. Yeah, he tried to give it back, but that was too late.

Don't listen to blackbetsy.com, they aint objective about the whole affair.

...this if you want to talk about the blacksox scandal, which I focused on. If you want to talk about him as a player, I can't help ya! Good luck. :)

Torn Labrum insists he was "forced" to take the money. I don't know what that means. He had the money in his possession and tried to return it. Should have called the cops.

Shoeless Joe
03-13-2004, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by MaggPipes
Hey guys, I haven't posted in awhile, but I am writing my senior research paper for school on joe and if you have any articles on him, and would be willing to give me a link or any suggestions on books on him being reinstated i would really apreciate it.... thanks

One of the best books I came across on Shoeless Joe was Shoeless: The Life and Times of Joe Jackson by David L. Fleitz. It gives you a bit of a background story on Joe but the heart of the book really focuses on the entire 1919 World Series scandal. It's a extremely interesting book and at times you really notice how unbiased it really is.

Paulwny
03-13-2004, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by npdempse

I saw a while back a book that had transcripts of the court hearings, but can't for the life of me remember which book it was--anybody?



Was it, Shoeless Joe and Ragtime Baseball by Harvey Frommer

TornLabrum
03-13-2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by joepoe
Torn Labrum insists he was "forced" to take the money. I don't know what that means. He had the money in his possession and tried to return it. Should have called the cops.

By forced, I mean that Cicotte basically shoved it at him and left so that Jackson was stuck with it.

He did not try to return the money. He tried to give it to Comiskey because he didn't want any part of it. Comiskey refused to even see him. Harry Grabiner told him, "We know all about it Joe. Forget about it."

TornLabrum
03-13-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Was it, Shoeless Joe and Ragtime Baseball by Harvey Frommer

Frommer's book was a hack job. A far better book was the biography by Daniel Gropman written in the '70s or '80s. A lot of his research was from interviews with contemporaries of Jackson from Greenville.

maurice
03-15-2004, 01:09 PM
The primary source documents (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/blacksox/blacksox.html) would be a good place to start.