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E Coast Sox Fan
03-11-2004, 04:52 PM
See the link to the ESPN Article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2004/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=1756709


The article states that the Mariners have the interest and the cash on hand, but it's unlikely that Seattle would make a deal unless the Reds would pick up some of Griffey's contract. Griffey's contract averages about $12.5 million a year over the next five years, but with deferred money stretching over many years.
"I would think," said one GM, "that several teams would want him. He can be great again." The White Sox need a center fielder. The Dodgers need an outfielder who can hit.

Additionally, the author says, there might be concern for teams about a personality as big as Griffey disrupting team harmony. Given our experience in this area that shouldn't be such a big a deal for the Sox.

rahulsekhar
03-11-2004, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by E Coast Sox Fan
See the link to the ESPN Article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2004/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=1756709


The article states that the Mariners have the interest and the cash on hand, but it's unlikely that Seattle would make a deal unless the Reds would pick up some of Griffey's contract. Griffey's contract averages about $12.5 million a year over the next five years, but with deferred money stretching over many years.
"I would think," said one GM, "that several teams would want him. He can be great again." The White Sox need a center fielder. The Dodgers need an outfielder who can hit.

Additionally, the author says, there might be concern for teams about a personality as big as Griffey disrupting team harmony. Given our experience in this area that shouldn't be such a big a deal for the Sox.

Attitude's not the problem, the salary is. However, I for one think Griff would be a nice add to this team. Push Frank to 1B, Griff can split between DH and CF (giving Frank some DH time as well). Griff & Frank were at one point, very close - so I think the transition would be easy for him and Herm's the best at keeping guys healthy.

But that salary is the issue. I don't see Cinci dealing him AND eating salary unless they get someone good & cheap in return. And that ain't happening.

SoxBoy14
03-11-2004, 04:58 PM
If this were five years ago i would be over joyed that the white sox could get griffey. But since he entered the reds all he's done is get injured. If the sox pick him up i doubt he'll be any better. He'll just waste money.

Randar68
03-11-2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by E Coast Sox Fan
See the link to the ESPN Article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2004/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=1756709


The article states that the Mariners have the interest and the cash on hand, but it's unlikely that Seattle would make a deal unless the Reds would pick up some of Griffey's contract. Griffey's contract averages about $12.5 million a year over the next five years, but with deferred money stretching over many years.
"I would think," said one GM, "that several teams would want him. He can be great again." The White Sox need a center fielder. The Dodgers need an outfielder who can hit.

Additionally, the author says, there might be concern for teams about a personality as big as Griffey disrupting team harmony. Given our experience in this area that shouldn't be such a big a deal for the Sox.

The Sox wouldn't take that risk unless Cinci was willing to eat a HUGE chunk of the remaining contract. The Sox have Reed, Borchard and Anderson at the minimum in the pipeline in CF, and wouldn't add Griffey to that mix unless they had to get rid of Lee or lose Maggs.

SoxxoS
03-11-2004, 05:00 PM
He needs a change of scenery like Star Jones needs a Slim fast.

In other words...BADLY. Get him out of Cincy. I wouldn't mind having him on the Southside if we can get that contract to 7-8 million per, I think he is worth the risk.

Or keep the salary the way it is and trade GIDPaul straight up.

SoxxoS
03-11-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
The Sox wouldn't take that risk unless Cinci was willing to eat a HUGE chunk of the remaining contract. The Sox have Reed, Borchard and Anderson at the minimum in the pipeline in CF, and wouldn't add Griffey to that mix unless they had to get rid of Lee or lose Maggs.

Reed and Borchard should be playing the corner spots, I have seen no report that they are actually suited to play CF. Anderson is 3 years away and has wrist issues. I wouldn't be counting on any of them to play CF AND hit effectively.

Foulke You
03-11-2004, 05:07 PM
You have to be concerned about a guy who hasn't played more than 111 games since 2000. He is "Mr. Glass". You breathe on him wrong and he hurts himself. Herm Schneider is good with injured players (Bo Jackson, Ellis Burks, Robin Ventura, etc.) but I would only take on this trade if Cincy eats half of that salary. You would also have to be prepared to move at least 2 from the group of Rauch, Stumm, Diaz, Honel, Stewart, Cotts, Wright, and Grilli in order to land Griffey since it is young cheap pitching that the Reds want.

Randar68
03-11-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Reed and Borchard should be playing the corner spots, I have seen no report that they are actually suited to play CF. Anderson is 3 years away and has wrist issues. I wouldn't be counting on any of them to play CF AND hit effectively.

They are both more than adequate in CF and you are NEVER again going to get a full season out of Griffey in CF.

People think Rowand is the option, but both Borchard and Reed are probably better CF'ers right freaking now, but they must be corner guys? Come on...

Do you have any clue what his wrist problems are??? He was only inactive for a 3-5 weeks following surgery. They shaved a bone down in his wrist, this isn't tendon/ligament problems. But hey, I bet that's the limiting factor...

Randar68
03-11-2004, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
You have to be concerned about a guy who hasn't played more than 111 games since 2000. He is "Mr. Glass". You breathe on him wrong and he hurts himself. Herm Schneider is good with injured players (Bo Jackson, Ellis Burks, Robin Ventura, etc.) but I would only take on this trade if Cincy eats half of that salary. You would also have to be prepared to move at least 2 from the group of Rauch, Stumm, Diaz, Honel, Stewart, Cotts, Wright, and Grilli in order to land Griffey since it is young cheap pitching that the Reds want.

If you'd only take half of Griffey's salary, I don't even think it costs you that much. Cinci is just trying to recover as much flexibility as possible, and a guy averaging 40 games per season isn't worth any money to an MLB club...

Tekijawa
03-11-2004, 05:38 PM
Can he play 2nd? If Willie Harris can Play Center than Griffey should be able to play Second right?

TheRockinMT
03-11-2004, 05:48 PM
Junior may be a great player, but he is a great player who is injured all of the time. We have someone right here in River City named Aaron Rowand who deserves the chance to play CF. Besides there is no way Griffey or MLMPA will agree to a $7M contract. The Reds aren't going to pick up $5M and I don't see any agreement being reached on a restructure.

Let the Mariners have Griifey Jr, if they want him and he wants to go there.

SoxxoS
03-11-2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
They are both more than adequate in CF and you are NEVER again going to get a full season out of Griffey in CF.[/COLOR]

Everywhere I read says that Borchard is ideally suited for a corner outfield spot, and I definitely was NOT impressed watching him in the majors last year. AND this is assuming he is going to be able to hit major league pitching. Maybe he will be just adaquate enough to play there defensively, but if he doesn't start hitting, his defense definitely won't get him on the field.

Here is baseball prospectus on Reed-
His average speed is evident in the outfield, where he shows sub-par range for a center fielder. The White Sox have recognized this and moved him to right field, which is likely where he'll end up in the major leagues. He plays center field once a week in case the need arises. The Chicago official I spoke to compared him to Mark Kotsay defensively, insinuating that he could play center field in a pinch, but will play right field on a team that cares about defense. His arm will work in right field, but it won't be an asset.

Nothing about that quote says "more than adaquate" for either of those players.



As for the wrist thing, nobody knows what his wrist problems are, but having surgery on his wrist is a concern at a young age. It's a moot point b/c he is 3 years away, anyway. If Cincy offered me a package with Griffey, Brian Anderson is not going to be the one to hold the deal up, I can tell you that.

ShoelessFred
03-11-2004, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
Junior may be a great player, but he is a great player who is injured all of the time. We have someone right here in River City named Aaron Rowand who deserves the chance to play CF. Besides there is no way Griffey or MLMPA will agree to a $7M contract. The Reds aren't going to pick up $5M and I don't see any agreement being reached on a restructure.

Let the Mariners have Griifey Jr, if they want him and he wants to go there.

DESERVES? DESERVES? he deserves absolutely NOTHING. this game is about winning. i don't think this trade would help the sox, but in no way do i think aaron rowand DESERVES a chance to play CF.

SoxFan76
03-11-2004, 07:05 PM
I hope Rowand does well this year so everyone can stop b******* about it. It's starting to really get on my nerves.

Daver
03-11-2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
I hope Rowand does well this year so everyone can stop b******* about it. It's starting to really get on my nerves.

The fact that the Sox as an organization would put a fourth outfielder out there as the starting CFer is what should get on your nerves.

SoxFan76
03-11-2004, 07:17 PM
But I have only seen good things from him. Especially after he changed his batting stance and swing. The general consensus I see, is that Borchard gets more respect than Rowand. Borchard has shown me nothing at a major league level. Rowand has shown me quite a bit. He can be a good hitter. As for defense, I think he can make the routine plays and can only get better after a full year at CF. He works hard, he wants to play, and he has shown he can hit in the big leagues with limited playing time. Imagine a full year.

maurice
03-11-2004, 07:18 PM
What's with this board's Rowand fixation? With his hot spring, it looks like Rowand's going to get a chance to start this year, at least during the first few months of the season. This should end the speculation once and for all. By June, it should be clear to everybody if there are 90 OFs in MLB better than Rowand, settling the very important question of whether he's a 3rd OF or a 4th OF on a major-league team.

Randar68
03-11-2004, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
I hope Rowand does well this year so everyone can stop b******* about it. It's starting to really get on my nerves.

don't worry, as Sealgep will surely respond within 10 minutes of a negative Rowand quote... 'He'll be fine"

Randar68
03-11-2004, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
But I have only seen good things from him. Especially after he changed his batting stance and swing. The general consensus I see, is that Borchard gets more respect than Rowand. Borchard has shown me nothing at a major league level. Rowand has shown me quite a bit. He can be a good hitter. As for defense, I think he can make the routine plays and can only get better after a full year at CF. He works hard, he wants to play, and he has shown he can hit in the big leagues with limited playing time. Imagine a full year.

Changed his batting stance????

Do you realize he watched tape of his swing from AA and ended up reverting back to the swing that never produced a full season of .300 average or .350 OBP at ANY level????

Sheeesh, I'm sure he's going to just be a super star now that he "changed his stance"...


UGH.

Randar68
03-11-2004, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
As for the wrist thing, nobody knows what his wrist problems are, but having surgery on his wrist is a concern at a young age. It's a moot point b/c he is 3 years away, anyway.

Really... Is that a fact??? Soooo, the Sox, Brian Anderson, and even his doctors don't know what's wrong???

Could have fooled me seeing as how what was wrong with his wrist was well documented... Anything else from the "Random Reasons Discount Facts Generator?"

I agree that he's 3 years away, but you obviously have no clue about what really was wrong with his wrist, but in your expert opinion, it is definitewly a factor in why we should try to get Ken Griffey Jr.???? *****.



As for the other comments, about Reed and Borchard. Because they are not ideally suited for CF as opposed to a corner OF spot, does not mean they:

1) Aren't the best option in CF
2) Aren't better defensively or speed/arm-wise than Aaron Rowand, who on a good day could pass for an adequate CF'er and has an arm no left-fielder would be jealous of.
3) I never said a damn thing about Borchard's offensive question-marks, which are well documented and an undisputed concern, so your point in even bringing it up really shows how desperately you're reaching now.

SoxFan76
03-11-2004, 08:57 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Randar68
[B]Changed his batting stance????

Do you realize he watched tape of his swing from AA and ended up reverting back to the swing that never produced a full season of .300 average or .350 OBP at ANY level????

Sheeesh, I'm sure he's going to just be a super star now that he "changed his stance"...

I'll be the first to admit I know very little of players during the minors. I'm just calling it like it is. After he changed his approach at the plate, he did very well for himself with the limited playing time.

guillen4life13
03-11-2004, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
I'll be the first to admit I know very little of players during the minors. I'm just calling it like it is. After he changed his approach at the plate, he did very well for himself with the limited playing time.


Yeah. If you don't know, Randar is sort of like the resident Minor League expert. It's sometimes funny when people try to argue with him about minor league info. :D:

Much respect for saying that though. :cool:

doublem23
03-11-2004, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by Daver
The fact that the Sox as an organization would put a fourth outfielder out there as the starting CFer is what should get on your nerves.

That's what I was going to say. What is our fascination with marginal players like Herbert Perry, Tony Graffanino, and Aaron Rowand? But we can't forget the all-time favorite...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&attachmentid=83
The Passion of The Choice is set to be released later this year, the only real change is that instead of nailing James Caviezel to a piece of wood, he just won't be able to swing one.

Tragg
03-12-2004, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by E Coast Sox Fan
See the link to the ESPN Article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2004/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=1756709


The article states that the Mariners have the interest and the cash on hand, but it's unlikely that Seattle would make a deal unless the Reds would pick up some of Griffey's contract. Griffey's contract averages about $12.5 million a year over the next five years, but with deferred money stretching over many years.
"I would think," said one GM, "that several teams would want him. He can be great again." The White Sox need a center fielder. The Dodgers need an outfielder who can hit.

Additionally, the author says, there might be concern for teams about a personality as big as Griffey disrupting team harmony. Given our experience in this area that shouldn't be such a big a deal for the Sox.

Good- then perhaps we can get RAndy Wynne from the Mariners.

Big salaries just suffocate us with our self-imposed limitations.

SoxxoS
03-12-2004, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Really... Is that a fact??? Soooo, the Sox, Brian Anderson, and even his doctors don't know what's wrong???

Could have fooled me seeing as how what was wrong with his wrist was well documented... Anything else from the "Random Reasons Discount Facts Generator?"

I agree that he's 3 years away, but you obviously have no clue about what really was wrong with his wrist, but in your expert opinion, it is definitewly a factor in why we should try to get Ken Griffey Jr.???? *****.



As for the other comments, about Reed and Borchard. Because they are not ideally suited for CF as opposed to a corner OF spot, does not mean they:

1) Aren't the best option in CF
2) Aren't better defensively or speed/arm-wise than Aaron Rowand, who on a good day could pass for an adequate CF'er and has an arm no left-fielder would be jealous of.
3) I never said a damn thing about Borchard's offensive question-marks, which are well documented and an undisputed concern, so your point in even bringing it up really shows how desperately you're reaching now.

Don't be an ass.

I never said it was a serious injury, but it's a concern. He is a moot point. You are exactly the same person, Dr. Randar, that was talking about your boy Borchard and his mysterious wrist tendonitis...which isn't documented anywhere except by you. So which on is it. Brian Anderson had surgery and that isn't a big deal, but Joe Borchard and his myterious wrist tendonitis is the cause for his hitting woes. *****.

You are comparing Reed and Borchard to Aaron Rowand, so obviously YOU are reaching. Now you are saying they aren't ideally suited for CF, but in your previous post you said they can play CF "more than adaquately"...which is disagreed upon by the actual experts. So which one is it? Being the best option in CF is the same thing as being the tallest midget, just because you are doesn't mean it's a good thing.

gosox41
03-12-2004, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by Daver
The fact that the Sox as an organization would put a fourth outfielder out there as the starting CFer is what should get on your nerves.

Daver, I'm not the biggest fasn of Rowand but not as down on him as you are.

What do you project for him offensively, like his OBP and SLG % and anything else you wish to add.

Bob

Over By There
03-12-2004, 09:01 AM
I'd rather keep Rowand and continue to look for pitching if we're making trades. Unless you could get a real steal on Griffey, but that definitely isn't the tone of the article. $0.02

Kittle
03-12-2004, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Over By There
I'd rather keep Rowand and continue to look for pitching if we're making trades. Unless you could get a real steal on Griffey, but that definitely isn't the tone of the article. $0.02

I'd rather go with Rowand, Reed, or Borchard than waste a ton of money on a washed-up candy ass like Griffey.

RKMeibalane
03-12-2004, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Daver
The fact that the Sox as an organization would put a fourth outfielder out there as the starting CFer is what should get on your nerves.

:reinsy

"If you come to the park, we will get a starting center fielder."

Randar68
03-12-2004, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Kittle
I'd rather go with Rowand, Reed, or Borchard than waste a ton of money on a washed-up candy ass like Griffey.

I agree with both you and "Over by There". Unless they can get him for next to nothing, it's not worth it.

Randar68
03-12-2004, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Don't be an ass.

I never said it was a serious injury, but it's a concern. He is a moot point. You are exactly the same person, Dr. Randar, that was talking about your boy Borchard and his mysterious wrist tendonitis...which isn't documented anywhere except by you. So which on is it. Brian Anderson had surgery and that isn't a big deal, but Joe Borchard and his myterious wrist tendonitis is the cause for his hitting woes. *****.


Brian Anderson had a diagnosable problem that was easily corrected via surgery. What is hard to understand about that. Recover rate for that surgery is as close to 100% as any surgery out there.

Borchard had an injury that caused him to lose bat-speed, that isn't correctable by some surgery, and that affected his performance on the field, although it was still something he could learn from. "My boy"??? I have not personal or emotional connection to any prospect or player I have discussed here. I have defended Borchard because of the past two years, he has RARELY been 100%, and I know that to be fact, not insinuation or or some candy-ass hypothetical as all of your assertions to this point have been. I have enough knowledge of the situation to be able to make a statement on the facts, do you? Clearly not.

Originally posted by SoxxoS
You are comparing Reed and Borchard to Aaron Rowand, so obviously YOU are reaching. Now you are saying they aren't ideally suited for CF, but in your previous post you said they can play CF "more than adequately"...which is disagreed upon by the actual experts. So which one is it? Being the best option in CF is the same thing as being the tallest midget, just because you are doesn't mean it's a good thing.

How does "not ideally suited for CF" and "play CF more than adequately" make someone not the best option, not sufficient, or not good enough given the team's limitations? Let's dissect things piece by piece, shall we?

"not ideally suited for CF" - because of their size or speed, they do not appear to be ideal. Reed has what you'd call average speed for a CF'er. His instincts and fundamentals make his an average or above defensive CF'er. Borchard has the size and arm of a RF'er, where he's "ideally suited to play". None of that doesn't mean they can't be above-average major league CF'ers defensively. Being ideally suited for a different OF spot is not mutually exclusive with their ability to excel in CF. Clear enough?

"play CF more than adequately" - This is something I have yet to see Aaron Rowand, the current front-runner and last year's starter, do. When converted 2-baggers can play CF for a week and have better fundamentals, range and accuracy on their throws, what does that say about the current player? It is completely relevant to the conversation, because 1) Griffey can't stay healthy long enough anymore to be a full-time CF'er and 2) Rowand is average at best.

Not everyone is Kenny Lofton, Bernie Williams or Willie Mays in their prime. However, when average-speed players are scoring from third on shallow flies to CF, you have a fundamental problem. Reed and Borchard are better than what currently is available defensively in CF, and are certainly better long-term options there than Griffey.

How are these points unclear or not relevant to the discussion in this thread???

Who's being the ass here? You must not have any mirrors in your house, huh?

RichFitztightly
03-12-2004, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by Randar68

Not everyone is Kenny Lofton, Bernie Williams or Willie Mays in their prime.

Hmmmm, is Willie Mays available now? I'd bet he'd be pretty cheap.

ChiSox65
03-12-2004, 11:08 AM
I would like to see him in our Soxstripes but only if Cinci would take some of the salary. We took a chance with Ellis Burks a few years back and that worked well thanx to Herm Schnieder.

ewokpelts
03-12-2004, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by E Coast Sox Fan
See the link to the ESPN Article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2004/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=1756709


The article states that the Mariners have the interest and the cash on hand, but it's unlikely that Seattle would make a deal unless the Reds would pick up some of Griffey's contract. Griffey's contract averages about $12.5 million a year over the next five years, but with deferred money stretching over many years.
"I would think," said one GM, "that several teams would want him. He can be great again." The White Sox need a center fielder. The Dodgers need an outfielder who can hit.

Additionally, the author says, there might be concern for teams about a personality as big as Griffey disrupting team harmony. Given our experience in this area that shouldn't be such a big a deal for the Sox.

griffey? with the sox? ha!

sas1974
03-12-2004, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by RichFitztightly
Hmmmm, is Willie Mays available now? I'd bet he'd be pretty cheap.

I saw him while I was out in Vegas in the fall. I wish I would have known we were looking for a CF. I would have asked him.

SoxxoS
03-14-2004, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Brian Anderson had a diagnosable problem that was easily corrected via surgery. What is hard to understand about that. Recover rate for that surgery is as close to 100% as any surgery out there.

Borchard had an injury that caused him to lose bat-speed, that isn't correctable by some surgery, and that affected his performance on the field, although it was still something he could learn from. "My boy"??? I have not personal or emotional connection to any prospect or player I have discussed here. I have defended Borchard because of the past two years, he has RARELY been 100%, and I know that to be fact, not insinuation or or some candy-ass hypothetical as all of your assertions to this point have been. I have enough knowledge of the situation to be able to make a statement on the facts, do you? Clearly not.



How does "not ideally suited for CF" and "play CF more than adequately" make someone not the best option, not sufficient, or not good enough given the team's limitations? Let's dissect things piece by piece, shall we?

"not ideally suited for CF" - because of their size or speed, they do not appear to be ideal. Reed has what you'd call average speed for a CF'er. His instincts and fundamentals make his an average or above defensive CF'er. Borchard has the size and arm of a RF'er, where he's "ideally suited to play". None of that doesn't mean they can't be above-average major league CF'ers defensively. Being ideally suited for a different OF spot is not mutually exclusive with their ability to excel in CF. Clear enough?

"play CF more than adequately" - This is something I have yet to see Aaron Rowand, the current front-runner and last year's starter, do. When converted 2-baggers can play CF for a week and have better fundamentals, range and accuracy on their throws, what does that say about the current player? It is completely relevant to the conversation, because 1) Griffey can't stay healthy long enough anymore to be a full-time CF'er and 2) Rowand is average at best.

Not everyone is Kenny Lofton, Bernie Williams or Willie Mays in their prime. However, when average-speed players are scoring from third on shallow flies to CF, you have a fundamental problem. Reed and Borchard are better than what currently is available defensively in CF, and are certainly better long-term options there than Griffey.

How are these points unclear or not relevant to the discussion in this thread???

Who's being the ass here? You must not have any mirrors in your house, huh?

I have decided I am not going to respond to anything about Borchard anymore b/c I don't believe anything you say about this wrist tendonitis thing. So, until you can prove he had this mysterious problem, it's rediculous to comment on. This wrist problem is "candy ass" and "hypothetical." Your whipping boy, Aaron Rowand, almost died in a motorcycle accident, but you don't give him any benefit of the doubt, ever.

Brian Anderson had surgery, which is ALWAYS a concern. He is back playing and should be 100%, no doubt, but the long term effects on a wrist is scary to me. This is really not an issue, the wrist probably will be fine. I am just saying that depending on the trade, Griffey would be a welcome addition...and Brian Anderson can't hold the deal up b/c he is so far away.

You obviously can't comprehend the "tallest midget" theory. I have not mentioned Aaron Rowand or Willie Harris in any of my posts, so forget about them. All the scouting reports I have read don't think that Reed and Borchard can play CF "ideally". So, they CAN play the position, but so can Sandy Alomar. You have to answer the question...are they going to be a liability? Since we have very average outfielders on both sides of them, I would say yes.

If a Konerko for Griffey deal came along, and Cincy was going to pay for part of Griffey's salary, he is a gamble that is worth taking. That is my opinion. Joe Borchard is not an option until he shows he can hit. Brian Anderson is too far away to hold a trade for Griffey up. I don't like the idea of Jeremy Reed in center, but we can move to him where he is "ideally" supposed to play, left field, and move CLee to 1st. Obviously all speculation.

Mohoney
03-15-2004, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by E Coast Sox Fan
See the link to the ESPN Article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2004/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=1756709


The article states that the Mariners have the interest and the cash on hand, but it's unlikely that Seattle would make a deal unless the Reds would pick up some of Griffey's contract. Griffey's contract averages about $12.5 million a year over the next five years, but with deferred money stretching over many years.
"I would think," said one GM, "that several teams would want him. He can be great again." The White Sox need a center fielder. The Dodgers need an outfielder who can hit.

Additionally, the author says, there might be concern for teams about a personality as big as Griffey disrupting team harmony. Given our experience in this area that shouldn't be such a big a deal for the Sox.

Here's my trade proposal:

Borchard, Rowand, Stumm, Rauch, Meaux, and Wing for Junior and half his salary for the duration of his contract. Our farm system's been either dead or on life support for the past 30+ years, so my bet is that these guys won't produce one iota in the Majors. Cincinnati might be willing to eat some of this contract for a boatload of prospects, especially a package of 4 pitchers and 2 outfielders. Then, they can trade Adam Dunn and get even more pitching prospects.

Simply put, there are two possibilities:

We give up a boatload of prospects (a handfull of magic beans) and get Junior: It's ass kicking time in the AL Central. Kansas City and Minnesota aren't even close to the talent we would have.

We pin our hopes on these farmhands: We get disappointed year in and year out. We die without ever savoring a World Series ring.

batmanZoSo
03-15-2004, 01:38 AM
I don't know how Reed stole 45 bases in a short season without having good speed. Scouts are the world's idealists. If you don't have prototypical this or that, you can't do it. Just because Reed would be better suited for right doesn't mean he can't play center. Last I checked we had a good right fielder already. I would try my darndest to make Reed an every day center fielder because he'd be much much more valuable there than in a corner.

gosox41
03-15-2004, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by Mohoney
Here's my trade proposal:

Borchard, Rowand, Stumm, Rauch, Meaux, and Wing for Junior and half his salary for the duration of his contract. Our farm system's been either dead or on life support for the past 30+ years, so my bet is that these guys won't produce one iota in the Majors. Cincinnati might be willing to eat some of this contract for a boatload of prospects, especially a package of 4 pitchers and 2 outfielders. Then, they can trade Adam Dunn and get even more pitching prospects.

Simply put, there are two possibilities:

We give up a boatload of prospects (a handfull of magic beans) and get Junior: It's ass kicking time in the AL Central. Kansas City and Minnesota aren't even close to the talent we would have.

We pin our hopes on these farmhands: We get disappointed year in and year out. We die without ever savoring a World Series ring.

I wouldn't give up that much in talent to save money on Griffey. Odds are even if the Sox paid half his remanining salary, he'd still be playing half the time. from that perspectivem, it's not worht giving up 5 minor leaguers for a part time player.

Bob

SoxxoS
03-15-2004, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I wouldn't give up that much in talent to save money on Griffey. Odds are even if the Sox paid half his remanining salary, he'd still be playing half the time. from that perspectivem, it's not worht giving up 5 minor leaguers for a part time player.

Bob

He isn't injury prone like Moises Alou...rinky dink crap injuries, this guy has just had a run of bad luck.

Randar68
03-15-2004, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I have decided I am not going to respond to anything about Borchard anymore b/c I don't believe anything you say about this wrist tendonitis thing. So, until you can prove he had this mysterious problem, it's rediculous to comment on. This wrist problem is "candy ass" and "hypothetical." Your whipping boy, Aaron Rowand, almost died in a motorcycle accident, but you don't give him any benefit of the doubt, ever.

Benefit of the doubt? I saw him play for 3 years prior to this injury. Now, suddenly, I'm supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt because he hasn't been able to hit or get on base consistently in the past? Because 3 years ago he was worried about his recover from his upcoming motorcycle accident??? I'm not pulling this stuff out of thin air. *****, man. He's going back to his stance and swing that never produced a .300 average or a .350 OBP since his pro debut in the SALLY League?! Just what this team needs, another strike-out borderline player. Don't we have enough of that?

As for Borchard, why don't you call on down to Charlotte in a couple weeks and ask Borchard yourself if you need the proof so badly? Again, this is not made-up. Just because the media didn't harp on it doesn't mean it didn't exist. If you chose not to believe it, that's your perogative.


Originally posted by SoxxoS
Brian Anderson had surgery, which is ALWAYS a concern. He is back playing and should be 100%, no doubt, but the long term effects on a wrist is scary to me. This is really not an issue, the wrist probably will be fine. I am just saying that depending on the trade, Griffey would be a welcome addition...and Brian Anderson can't hold the deal up b/c he is so far away.

You obviously can't comprehend the "tallest midget" theory. I have not mentioned Aaron Rowand or Willie Harris in any of my posts, so forget about them. All the scouting reports I have read don't think that Reed and Borchard can play CF "ideally". So, they CAN play the position, but so can Sandy Alomar. You have to answer the question...are they going to be a liability? Since we have very average outfielders on both sides of them, I would say yes.

If a Konerko for Griffey deal came along, and Cincy was going to pay for part of Griffey's salary, he is a gamble that is worth taking. That is my opinion. Joe Borchard is not an option until he shows he can hit. Brian Anderson is too far away to hold a trade for Griffey up. I don't like the idea of Jeremy Reed in center, but we can move to him where he is "ideally" supposed to play, left field, and move CLee to 1st. Obviously all speculation.

I agree Anderson is several years away. However, do you think CF has any bearing at all on Griffey? What about the past 3-4 years has shown you he can even play half a season in CF without seriously hurting himself? CF is really a moot point in this, because if and AL team acquires him, I think they'd try to play him primarily as a DH.

In terms of Reed and Borchard. Reed has only been an OF'er for 2 years, really, and has the speed and arm to be well above average. Then again, I guess every prospect should be completely polished in every aspect of the game, right? Borchard? His arm and size makes him more suited for RF, true. However, that doesn't mean he can't be the best available option if he can show he can hit consistently. Reed isn't ever going to be a 35 HR type player, and with his OBP and such, his stick makes him an ideal CF'er. He's shown he has a VERY high baseball IQ, so what makes you so sure he can't be a very good CF'er????

Again, not everyone is or has to be an all-world defensive CF'er in order to be able to be a very good one.

If you can get Griffey for Konerko and have Cinci pay part of the salary, you'd be out of your melon not to do it. Griffey on a bad day is 10x the hitter Konerko ever is or was. If you can DH him and keep him healthy, a lineup of Thomas, Griffey, Lee and Maggs in the heart of the order, you have a VERY dangerous lineup.