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View Full Version : "Nit" Selig and "Wit" Fehr summoned to Washington


Jerko
03-09-2004, 08:21 PM
Hmm. Will the laws of the country finally supercede the CBA? I doubt it but we will see.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/7158458[/URL]

Daver
03-09-2004, 08:28 PM
That is a real piece of non-news there.

CBS Sportsline must be getting desperate.

rahulsekhar
03-09-2004, 08:32 PM
When asked why the policy isn't stronger, Selig's going to say "we want it to be", and Fehr is going to say "we do too, but no testing". Then Congress is going to say - "OK, we're going to criminalize more of this crap and if you guys don't get stricter, we're going to butt in".

It's going to give Bud a whole lot of ammo for his "reopen the drug testing portion of the CBA, but not the rest" campaign.

Personally, I think that's newsworthy.

Daver
03-09-2004, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
When asked why the policy isn't stronger, Selig's going to say "we want it to be", and Fehr is going to say "we do too, but no testing". Then Congress is going to say - "OK, we're going to criminalize more of this crap and if you guys don't get stricter, we're going to butt in".

It's going to give Bud a whole lot of ammo for his "reopen the drug testing portion of the CBA, but not the rest" campaign.

Personally, I think that's newsworthy.

I doubt you are even close to what the content of that is going to be.

Keep in mind everyone on Capitol Hill,for the most part,thinks Bud and the rest of the owners are not quite honest.

ShoelessFred
03-10-2004, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by Daver
I doubt you are even close to what the content of that is going to be.

Keep in mind everyone on Capitol Hill,for the most part,thinks Bud and the rest of the owners are not quite honest.

and keep in mind that most people believe that NO ONE on capitol hill is quite honest... :o:

gosox41
03-10-2004, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by Daver
I doubt you are even close to what the content of that is going to be.

Keep in mind everyone on Capitol Hill,for the most part,thinks Bud and the rest of the owners are not quite honest.

They must feel tha way after looking in the mirror and seeing themselves.

Bob

Hokiesox
03-10-2004, 08:34 AM
I will be at the hearing.

rahulsekhar
03-10-2004, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by Hokiesox
I will be at the hearing.

Interesting - I look forward to (hopefully) hearing some of what goes on there.

rahulsekhar
03-10-2004, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Daver
I doubt you are even close to what the content of that is going to be.

Keep in mind everyone on Capitol Hill,for the most part,thinks Bud and the rest of the owners are not quite honest.

While I agree with that, I believe that the focus of this particular hearing (i.e. drug testing, not finances) is going to make quite a difference in the attitude towards the owners.

They may be lying, cheating, bastages - but I don't think that they're doing so on the drug front. And I don't know that the committee's going to be very sympathetic towards a "we'd go for better testing if we get some financial concessions" type of attitude from the union. IMO, they're going to stick to their privacy argument, MLB is going to stick to a "we want a minors-like policy but can't do it", and the committee's going to end up pushing more on the union than the owners.

Again - IMO, but regardless - I don't know that the mistrust of the owners is going to play that significantly given the topic.

Hokiesox
03-10-2004, 10:38 AM
Well, here's a short update on the crux of the hearing.

After hearing testimony from the NFL and the anti-doping agency, Mr. Fehr was asked by Sen. McCain if he would be willing to revisit the 2002 CBA to adopt the NFL's drug testing procedures. After starting a statement, Fehr was interrupted by McCain who said, "A yes or no would suffice."

Obviously, he didn't get a yes or no out of Fehr. McCain called his response an outrage, then asked the anti-doping guy what he thought. The USADA rep. said he really didn't have enough information to respond. Fehr said the union was against more stringent testing because of a matter of privacy and "not having to prove innocence without being guilty of something." Furthermore, he said that Congress should ban the substances from stores, if they're so upset about it (he was talking about THG, ephedra and Andro). Selig said, "unequivocally, yes."

Other Senators want to know why MLB's current system has no penalties. Sen. McCain laid it out by saying, "In the olympics, you get a 2 year suspension for your first offense. In the NFL, it's 4 games without pay. In baseball, it's counseling with pay."

They seem out to get MLB to adopt a policy similar to the NFL. However, the Senators are also saying they really don't want to get involved, but they seem (my words, not theirs) irritated by the lack of action on the part of MLBPA.

Unfortunately, I'm not actually at the hearing, I'm at home watching on the internet. Darn flu bug.

rahulsekhar
03-10-2004, 10:59 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=1755319

The main senate comments:
Bud:
In his prepared remarks, Selig said major league baseball would like to have stronger testing but couldn't get the union to agree.
"I realize that we have work to do," he said. "We need more frequent and year-round testing of players. We need immediate penalties for those caught using illegal substances."

John McCain:
"Sports organizations that allow athletes to cheat through weak drug testing regimes are aiding and abetting cheaters," McCain, R-Ariz., said at the start of a hearing of the Senate Commerce Committee.
"Each of you, and particularly Major League Baseball, has a legitimacy problem," he said, addressing top baseball and football officials in attendance. "As your athletes get bigger and stronger, the credibility of your product in the eyes of the public gets weaker."

Joe Biden:
Biden criticized the Players Union for resisting stronger testing for steroids.
"The union's wrong, here," said Biden, D-Del. "Baseball is the national pastime, but it's the repository of the values of this country.
"There's something simply un-American about this. This is about values, about culture, it's about who we define ourselves to be.''
He and other lawmakers also want to see the sport adopt a more stringent testing program for drugs that already are banned. Selig backs the legislation.


On a side note - Hokie: Where are you seeing this online? I'd love to get a look. Thanks.

Hokiesox
03-10-2004, 12:05 PM
It's over, but CSPAN usually carries the stuff on their website.


You also missed Joe Biden turning around and looking Bud Selig right in the eyes and saying, "Mr. Selig, I like you, but I wish to hell baseball would get a real commissioner."

rahulsekhar
03-10-2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Hokiesox
It's over, but CSPAN usually carries the stuff on their website.


You also missed Joe Biden turning around and looking Bud Selig right in the eyes and saying, "Mr. Selig, I like you, but I wish to hell baseball would get a real commissioner."

Any other tidbits? Is that it for the hearings or are more scheduled?

Hokiesox
03-10-2004, 01:40 PM
Not yet, they typically announce new hearings only a couple days in advance.

Also, I noticed that the committee itself, the Commerce Committee webcasts their hearings from their website.

No other interesting tid-bits. It's not like we couldn't guess what was going to happen to begin with. I only gave the interesting details. It seemed Senators were siding with the owners on this issue, unlike some had thought would happen in this thread.

ode to veeck
03-10-2004, 01:48 PM
Keep in mind everyone on Capitol Hill,for the most part,thinks Bud and the rest of the owners are not quite honest.

What in the world would ever them THAT idea!?!?!

Hokiesox
03-10-2004, 01:52 PM
I think the reason Capitol Hill would even entertain the idea of getting involved (believe me, they don't) is because they don't trust EITHER side.

Paulwny
03-10-2004, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Hokiesox
Fehr said the union was against more stringent testing because of a matter of privacy and "not having to prove innocence without being guilty of something." Furthermore, he said that Congress should ban the substances from stores, if they're so upset about it (he was talking about THG, ephedra and Andro). Selig said, "unequivocally, yes."

.

I understand a congressman (?) had a rebuttle. Cork and Vasaline aren't banned from stores but, baseball banned them. Why can't you ban these drugs?
No reply from Fehr.

rahulsekhar
03-10-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
I understand a congressman (?) had a rebuttle. Cork and Vasaline aren't banned from stores but, baseball banned them. Why can't you ban these drugs?
No reply from Fehr.

That's priceless.

ma-gaga
03-10-2004, 05:10 PM
Fehr and Selig both have their heads too far up their asses to see the forest for the trees. They are both primarily concerned with money and they apparently can't seem to figure out someway of getting more stringent testing in place without bickering about it.

This should be a non-story. Nobody really cares about this. Just some 'traditionalists' who talk about asterisks, and George W. Bush who is probably going to get the commissioner's job.

You also missed Joe Biden turning around and looking Bud Selig right in the eyes and saying, "Mr. Selig, I like you, but I wish to hell baseball would get a real commissioner."

This is fabulous. I must find this.

Lip Man 1
03-10-2004, 07:17 PM
"Mr. Selig, I like you, but I wish to hell baseball would get a real commissioner."

I think the players union would be a lot more supportive of a chance to get an independent commissioner then the owners don't you think?

Lip

Jerko
03-10-2004, 10:22 PM
I have absolutely no use, nor desire, to ever see, hear, or hear from Donald Fehr ever, EVER, again. He may very well be the biggest dickwad in America, assuming of course Bin Laden is not already captured and in jail here somewhere.

Daver
03-10-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
I have absolutely no use, nor desire, to ever see, hear, or hear from Donald Fehr ever, EVER, again. He may very well be the biggest dickwad in America, assuming of course Bin Laden is not already captured and in jail here somewhere.

I always knew Jerry Reinsdorf was a member here,looks like I know who he is now.

Jerko
03-10-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
I understand a congressman (?) had a rebuttle. Cork and Vasaline aren't banned from stores but, baseball banned them. Why can't you ban these drugs?
No reply from Fehr.

Classic. Typical baseball; instead of meeting the issue head on they have to go into "Comparative damage" mode. I can see that fat frig Fehr whining now "andro is sold in stores, wahhh, THG isn't illegal, whaaaaaa. GREAT cork and vaseline line by that congressman (can I say that here?). THAT guy is either pretty quick or he really did his homework and KNEW that pompous, bulbous, ass of a man Fehr would say something that completely and utterly brainless and inane. I hate him.

Daver
03-10-2004, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
I understand a congressman (?) had a rebuttle. Cork and Vasaline aren't banned from stores but, baseball banned them. Why can't you ban these drugs?
No reply from Fehr.

Cork and vaseline are not banned by baseball,they are banned from the playing field,you can have as much cork and vaseline as you want in the clubhouse,you just can't bring it onto the field of play.

Paulwny
03-11-2004, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Cork and vaseline are not banned by baseball,they are banned from the playing field,you can have as much cork and vaseline as you want in the clubhouse,you just can't bring it onto the field of play.

C'mon Daver, I may not have posted the exact words but, we all know what he meant.

Hokiesox
03-11-2004, 07:47 AM
He actually only asked about whether the government should restrict the production of Cork.

Fehr BSed his answer.

That was followed by Sen. Sununu (the one who asked about Cork) asking the doping agency guy if cold medications were banned from olympic competition, and if so, does the USADA test for them and take action? This was to refute Fehr's contention that OTC steroids should be allowed because some are sold over the counter.

The USADA's answer: Yes we do, if OTC medications contain a banned substance, we suspend athletes who use them, even by accident."

Hokiesox
03-11-2004, 07:49 AM
Let me add a disclaimer/comment:

Everything I've written are my views, not anyone else's. I'm basically trying to give the facts, and any opinions you see are mine.

Paulwny
03-11-2004, 07:54 AM
Players Assn Deputy Gene Orza tells the players that voluntary drug testing is a violation of the CBA. Fehr tells the senators it isn't.

From Newsday:

"Please explain how it is good for the game of baseball for a player to not be able to clear his name by taking a voluntary test?" Sen. Peter Fitzgerald (R-Ill.) asked Fehr, according to a Fitzgerald news release. "Why does the collective-bargaining agreement prohibit such tests? Are you afraid of a player clearing his name and separating himself from the accusation that surrounds the game?"

Fehr responded that Sheffield wouldn't have violated the CBA, as long as he took the test voluntarily.

Orza didn't return a call for comment.

Daver
03-11-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Players Assn Deputy Gene Orza tells the players that voluntary drug testing is a violation of the CBA. Fehr tells the senators it isn't.

From Newsday:

"Please explain how it is good for the game of baseball for a player to not be able to clear his name by taking a voluntary test?" Sen. Peter Fitzgerald (R-Ill.) asked Fehr, according to a Fitzgerald news release. "Why does the collective-bargaining agreement prohibit such tests? Are you afraid of a player clearing his name and separating himself from the accusation that surrounds the game?"

Fehr responded that Sheffield wouldn't have violated the CBA, as long as he took the test voluntarily.

Orza didn't return a call for comment.

I would have asked Sen. Fitzgerald how such a test could clear the players name? As long as three weeks have passed the player would test clean,but it does not prove or disprove that they have ever used steroids.The question of whether his past performance was aided by steroids would remain a mystery that cannot be proven by way of a test.

rahulsekhar
03-11-2004, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Daver
I would have asked Sen. Fitzgerald how such a test could clear the players name? As long as three weeks have passed the player would test clean,but it does not prove or disprove that they have ever used steroids.The question of whether his past performance was aided by steroids would remain a mystery that cannot be proven by way of a test.

You're right, but I believe the question was asked more in terms of the concept - that the union's against that type of test despite the privacy issue not being a factor (since the player would make the choice).

ode to veeck
03-11-2004, 07:46 PM
You also missed Joe Biden turning around and looking Bud Selig right in the eyes and saying, "Mr. Selig, I like you, but I wish to hell baseball would get a real commissioner."

OUCH Mr Selig!. Its really gotta be bad when this is so obvious to even someone as clueless as Senator Biden, but then that's a topic for PI

Hokiesox
03-12-2004, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
OUCH Mr Selig!. Its really gotta be bad when this is so obvious to even someone as clueless as Senator Biden, but then that's a topic for PI


CLueless? This should go to PI now...he's probably the most knowlegeable Senator in the Senate!

Maximo
03-12-2004, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Hmm. Will the laws of the country finally supercede the CBA? I doubt it but we will see.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/7158458[/URL]

My gut tells me this is all "window dressing" before Congress gets involved and enacts some type of legislation under the banner of "for the betterment of the game".

Selig is apparently either powerless or unwilling to do anything about it. Fehr is spewing all of the typical jargon of "my job is to protect the rights of the individual employee". They both need an "out" and are waiting for the lawmakers to provide them one.

It's a shame that the Commissioner and the baseball players association can't see the 'forest through the trees' and work something out on their own. I just can't see Selig and Fehr doing it......so once again, the federal government will stick their nose in and attempt to provide a solution.

If and when they do......Selig and Fehr should be sent to their rooms without any dessert.

MarkEdward
03-12-2004, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Maximo
My gut tells me this is all "window dressing" before Congress gets involved and enacts some type of legislation under the banner of "for the betterment of the game".

Well, unless Major League Baseball become part of the United States government, there's very little Congress can do as far as legislation goes. This quote is from Doug Pappas, a former labor attorney. Pappas is responding to John McCain's threat of action if the steroid policy isn't changed:
Er...how? By passing a federal law to invalidate a collectively bargained provision in a private-sector labor agreement? By putting the MLBPA on double-secret probation? By screaming really, really loudly outside its offices?
As I understand it, there's precious little Congress can do.

Hokiesox
03-12-2004, 12:07 PM
that's not entirely true, but I'll keep how to myself. I have no idea what Congress is planning on doing, if anything, but there are ways Congress can do something. Anti-trust is always brought up.