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HebrewHammer
03-09-2004, 10:20 AM
are the Atlanta Braves wrong about a player? Since they started their run in the early 90's how often has their scouting department completely dropped the ball? I know someone is going to bring up Kevin Millwood, I know some Cubs yuppie chump is going to bring up Greg Maddux(yeah, sure), but other than Millwood have the Braves made ANY mistakes when it comes to a guy being finished or not being able to live up to potential? I guess Ryan Klesko, but he still can't hit lefties. Only reason I bring it up is because it could spell doom for the greatest rotation in the history of the universe and the less I have to hear about how the Flubs could have the first rotation with 4 20 game winners in thirty years the better.

Brian26
03-09-2004, 10:31 AM
Not very often.

Ned Yost had the Brewers steal Wes Helms from the Braves last year, and it appears he's going to become a pretty good third baseman in Milwaukee. Jury's still out, though.

rahulsekhar
03-09-2004, 11:55 AM
Even Millwood wasn't a case where they were wrong, it was a case where they didn't have the cash. Note that they held onto him through his struggles and he came back to being a pretty decent pitcher.

With that, hopefully Maddux is declining, but my guess is that given the way he pitches, he'll still be effective and win 13-15.

KingXerxes
03-09-2004, 12:04 PM
Bret Boone
David Justice
Jermaine Dye
Jason Schmidt
Tony Graffanino

Baby Fisk
03-09-2004, 12:06 PM
Would Steve Avery count here? He gave them a couple of great seasons, then he tanked. I'll note my own ignorance here as his career may have been derailed by injuries I'm not aware of. He tried a comeback last season with Detroit, but it seemed to go nowhere.

Brian26
03-09-2004, 12:12 PM
Avery is an example of them being right. They unloaded him on Boston at just the right time.

WinningUgly!
03-09-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by HebrewHammer
are the Atlanta Braves wrong about a player? Since they started their run in the early 90's how often has their scouting department completely dropped the ball? I know someone is going to bring up Kevin Millwood, I know some Cubs yuppie chump is going to bring up Greg Maddux(yeah, sure), but other than Millwood have the Braves made ANY mistakes when it comes to a guy being finished or not being able to live up to potential? I guess Ryan Klesko, but he still can't hit lefties. Only reason I bring it up is because it could spell doom for the greatest rotation in the history of the universe and the less I have to hear about how the Flubs could have the first rotation with 4 20 game winners in thirty years the better.

A few names they let get away...
Mike Stanton, Jason Schmidt, Jermaine Dye, Kenny Lofton, Bret Boone & Odalis Perez.

WinningUgly!
03-09-2004, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Bret Boone
David Justice
Jermaine Dye
Jason Schmidt
Tony Graffanino

I knew by the time I posted somebody would beat me to it. Ha! King, you forgot about the legendary Paul Bako!

basilesox
03-09-2004, 12:15 PM
It isnt a case of them being wrong with Maddux, they just didnt want to pay him a ton of money. The cubs on the other hand did want to pay him big money.

KingXerxes
03-09-2004, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by basilesox
It isnt a case of them being wrong with Maddux, they just didnt want to pay him a ton of money. The cubs on the other hand did want to pay him big money.

Isn't this pretty much the reason that anybody is moved these days?

PaulDrake
03-09-2004, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by HebrewHammer
are the Atlanta Braves wrong about a player? Since they started their run in the early 90's how often has their scouting department completely dropped the ball? I know someone is going to bring up Kevin Millwood, I know some Cubs yuppie chump is going to bring up Greg Maddux(yeah, sure), but other than Millwood have the Braves made ANY mistakes when it comes to a guy being finished or not being able to live up to potential? I guess Ryan Klesko, but he still can't hit lefties. Only reason I bring it up is because it could spell doom for the greatest rotation in the history of the universe and the less I have to hear about how the Flubs could have the first rotation with 4 20 game winners in thirty years the better. Let me the first ( I think) to say hi, welcome and hope you have a nice time here.

Bobby Thigpen
03-09-2004, 01:11 PM
I don't necessarily know if I would include Tony G as one they missed on. I don't think letting career backups go should really damn you scouting departments.

Lip Man 1
03-09-2004, 01:21 PM
Like any organization the Braves have made mistakes...what separates them from most other MLB teams is that under John Schuerholz they seem to find a way to correct those mistakes.

12 straight divisional titles is proof enough don't you think? (13 if you count the fact they were in first place at the time of the labor impass in 1994)

Lip

Maximo
03-09-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Like any organization the Braves have made mistakes...what separates them from most other MLB teams is that under John Schuerholz they seem to find a way to correct those mistakes.

12 straight divisional titles is proof enough don't you think? (13 if you count the fact they were in first place at the time of the labor impass in 1994)

Lip There was a labor impasse in '94?

chisox56
03-09-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
A few names they let get away...
Mike Stanton, Jason Schmidt, Jermaine Dye, Kenny Lofton, Bret Boone & Odalis Perez.

I think the astros let lofton go.

batmanZoSo
03-09-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by HebrewHammer
are the Atlanta Braves wrong about a player? Since they started their run in the early 90's how often has their scouting department completely dropped the ball? I know someone is going to bring up Kevin Millwood, I know some Cubs yuppie chump is going to bring up Greg Maddux(yeah, sure), but other than Millwood have the Braves made ANY mistakes when it comes to a guy being finished or not being able to live up to potential? I guess Ryan Klesko, but he still can't hit lefties. Only reason I bring it up is because it could spell doom for the greatest rotation in the history of the universe and the less I have to hear about how the Flubs could have the first rotation with 4 20 game winners in thirty years the better.

The Cubs probably won't have any 20 game winners.

Maddux--Um, no. 15-17
Wood--Career best is 14. Still is enigmatic at times.
Zambrano--lol
Clement--see above
Prior--will he be healthy?

Bruce Chen was supposed to be a stud for the Braves. Around 99, he was very highly touted, but he's a complete bust. I think he's actually in the cubs system now.

WinningUgly!
03-09-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by chisox56
I think the astros let lofton go.

The Braves traded for Lofton right before the '97 season. After the season ended the Braves let the Indians sign him back as a FA.

KingXerxes
03-09-2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
The Cubs probably won't have any 20 game winners.

Maddux--Um, no. 15-17
Wood--Career best is 14. Still is enigmatic at times.
Zambrano--lol
Clement--see above
Prior--will he be healthy?

Bruce Chen was supposed to be a stud for the Braves. Around 99, he was very highly touted, but he's a complete bust. I think he's actually in the cubs system now.

I honestly think Zambrano will turn out to have a great year. The guy looks like a horse to me, and he's only something like 23 years old. He was too animated last year, but as he gets older - I think he's going to be the guy to watch.

TaylorStSox
03-09-2004, 03:57 PM
I honestly think Zambrano will turn out to have a great year. The guy looks like a horse to me, and he's only something like 23 years old. He was too animated last year, but as he gets older - I think he's going to be the guy to watch.


Agreed. If you think about it, their 2 worst starters are guys with fantastic stuff who haven't quite developed yet. I'd take that for 4 and 5 any day.

Let's not kid ourselves. The Cubs will be good.

Bobby Thigpen
03-09-2004, 05:43 PM
Just something about Zambrano that screams Jaquin Andujar to me. I really believe that at some point he will go absolutely insane and throw away his career. He may have talent, but I don't think he has the mental makeup. Just my impression though.

KingXerxes
03-09-2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
Just something about Zambrano that screams Jaquin Andujar to me. I really believe that at some point he will go absolutely insane and throw away his career. He may have talent, but I don't think he has the mental makeup. Just my impression though.

I agree that this is a distinct possibility with the guy - and we'll see. He doesn't remind of Andujar though, guys like Andujar were/are Julian Taveras, Melido Perez's brother (name escapes me right now, but I remember him being way over the top emotionally) and Pittsburgh last year had a real idiot - I think his name is Manzanillo or something to that effect (and it was too bad because the guy looked like he could pitch). They were all outwardly emotional. Zambrano looks a bit more "inward" to me - if that makes any sense at all.

Subsequent edit - It was Pacual Perez whom I referred to in the above.