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whitesoxwilkes
03-08-2004, 06:29 PM
Looks to me like he's still not hitting...any of you listen to the game today get a feel for what might be wrong?

SoxFan76
03-08-2004, 06:37 PM
I think he will be fine come the regular season. Spring is a time to make adjustments and see what you need to do to prepare for the real games. For example, Shoenweis got rocked, but he is in the process of trying out new pitches.

jeremyb1
03-08-2004, 06:46 PM
Who really is hitting at this point? Hitters are supposed to take a while to catch up with the pitchers in the spring. We've only played a handful of games and some guys have only played in one or two games so personally its hard for me to fathom how you could attempt to evaluate anyone's performance at this point in time.

whitesoxwilkes
03-08-2004, 07:02 PM
:chickenlittle

Brian26
03-08-2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by whitesoxwilkes
Looks to me like he's still not hitting...any of you listen to the game today get a feel for what might be wrong?

I say it's a little too early to get excited. However, if we're having this discussion at the end of April, then we've got a major problem.

RichFitztightly
03-08-2004, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Who really is hitting at this point? Hitters are supposed to take a while to catch up with the pitchers in the spring. We've only played a handful of games and some guys have only played in one or two games so personally its hard for me to fathom how you could attempt to evaluate anyone's performance at this point in time.

I was at Spring Training a week ago. It was an intrasquad scrimmage, but Rowand hit the ball hard every time. Paulie hit every ball to the the shortstop or third baseman.

Since we're on the topic, I might as well add that Schoenwies pitched 3 innings and looked un-hittable in the first inning. Then fell off dramatically after. His cutter looked bad. It looked like he was incapable of putting any spin on it. His release point made the ball look like he was throwing it at a lefty batter's head but he'd snap his wrist and it would fly across the plate at a goofy angle. However, it would have no movement on the ball at all.

Rauch pitched 3 innings and didn't look good. He got most of his batters out, but his fast ball looked like it had no life on it. His off-speed pitch looked lazy.

Lip Man 1
03-08-2004, 08:41 PM
What's interesting is that Konerko has always destroyed pitching in spring training. Hmmm.....

Lip

RKMeibalane
03-08-2004, 09:12 PM
I don't think there's any reason to be concerned yet. None of the Sox hitters have really gotten things going at the plate. Frank is only 1-6, and Maggs just played in his first game this afternoon.

Spring Training is a time to focus on the positives, rather than the negatives. We have the entire season to complain about what Paul Konerko is not doing right. For now, let's just enjoy the fact that baseball is back.

SoxOnTop
03-08-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
What's interesting is that Konerko has always destroyed pitching in spring training. Hmmm.....

Lip

I'm glad to see you're keeping it positive, Lip. Especially after 7 whole spring training at bats.

jeremyb1
03-08-2004, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by RichFitztightly
I was at Spring Training a week ago. It was an intrasquad scrimmage, but Rowand hit the ball hard every time. Paulie hit every ball to the the shortstop or third baseman.

Since we're on the topic, I might as well add that Schoenwies pitched 3 innings and looked un-hittable in the first inning. Then fell off dramatically after. His cutter looked bad. It looked like he was incapable of putting any spin on it. His release point made the ball look like he was throwing it at a lefty batter's head but he'd snap his wrist and it would fly across the plate at a goofy angle. However, it would have no movement on the ball at all.

Rauch pitched 3 innings and didn't look good. He got most of his batters out, but his fast ball looked like it had no life on it. His off-speed pitch looked lazy.

I'm guessing its no coincidence that Rowand played winter ball and did a lot of work in the offseason coupled with the fact that he's started out hot. He's much less rusty than a lot of our other hitters.

chisox06
03-08-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
I think he will be fine come the regular season. Spring is a time to make adjustments and see what you need to do to prepare for the real games. For example, Shoenweis got rocked, but he is in the process of trying out new pitches.

Normally I would agree with you, but not with Konerko. We saw him making "adjustments" all of last season when the games counted, the fact that he is still not hitting in ST I think if there was one player to be concerned about it would Paulie. Now I love using the excuse its only ST but with Paulie this is a bad sign so far.

soxnut
03-08-2004, 11:13 PM
This thread shows why noone here is employed by an MLB front office.............

IA_soxfan
03-08-2004, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
This thread shows why noone here is employed by an MLB front office.............

And you are?

If Konerko was coming off last season hittling .300 + then I would agree as to the "haters" in this thread being way off base. However, the facts are that Konehead flat out sucked balls last season. While it may be true that his suckiness in limited action thus far in ST may not be a harbringer of doom, it certainly doesn't make me feel any better about having him in our lineup.

soxnut
03-09-2004, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by IA_soxfan
And you are?

If Konerko was coming off last season hittling .300 + then I would agree as to the "haters" in this thread being way off base. However, the facts are that Konehead flat out sucked balls last season. While it may be true that his suckiness in limited action thus far in ST may not be a harbringer of doom, it certainly doesn't make me feel any better about having him in our lineup.


As I said, noone, which would include me. But, I'm just not worried about it. I do think it's too early for that.

IA_soxfan
03-09-2004, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
As I said, noone, which would include me. But, I'm just not worried about it. I do think it's too early for that.

Sorry if that came off as a snap, soxnut. Midterms will do that to a guy.

At any rate, I am worried, not so much because of his performance in spring training, but because of the fact that he looked absolutely clueless in nearly all of his at bats last year.

Here's hoping that I'm wrong. :gulp:

doublem23
03-09-2004, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
What's interesting is that Konerko has always destroyed pitching in spring training. Hmmm.....

Lip

Yeah, it would be a complete freak of nature if he turned it around.

Sheesh, anyways, maybe that hip problem?

ShoelessFred
03-09-2004, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
What's interesting is that Konerko has always destroyed pitching in spring training. Hmmm.....

Lip

yeah he usually hits like .500

and NO THAT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE TEAL

SoxOnTop
03-09-2004, 06:12 AM
This is rediculous. We are talking about 7 freaking at bats!!!! Give the man a couple of weeks before you count him out for the year.

You all must be the same people who were ready to name Takasu the closer after he pitched BP.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-09-2004, 07:59 AM
At times like these it is helpful to remember H.Vickery's Law:

"Whenever things appear to be going well for the Sox, disaster lurks around the corner."

:smile:

In the case of Konerko's mystery troubles, you have to apply the PHG corollary to H.Vickery's Law:

"It's never too early to panic."

:)

soxnut
03-09-2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by IA_soxfan
Sorry if that came off as a snap, soxnut. Midterms will do that to a guy.

At any rate, I am worried, not so much because of his performance in spring training, but because of the fact that he looked absolutely clueless in nearly all of his at bats last year.

Here's hoping that I'm wrong. :gulp:


Yeah midterms can get to people, but hey, no prob. I'm still not that worried about Konerko....yet. :smile:

Hangar18
03-09-2004, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
This thread shows why noone here is employed by an MLB front office.............

Well, the SOX havnt been to a World Series since 1959....
Havnt Won a Playoff Game since 1993 .....
Have let a Major Competitor in their market "score" many
"unanswered" runs off of them marketing/advertising/standings wise .......

Randar68
03-09-2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
At times like these it is helpful to remember H.Vickery's Law:

"Whenever things appear to be going well for the Sox, disaster lurks around the corner."

:smile:

In the case of Konerko's mystery troubles, you have to apply the PHG corollary to H.Vickery's Law:

"It's never too early to panic."

:)

My only problem with Konerko is this:

He's more than willing to try to be the team spokesman and supposed leader, yet he's never in great shape and in the past, has spent WAAAAY too much time :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: and not nearly enough time in the gym. Frank Thomas comes to every Spring Training in GREAT shape, yet here is Konerko, still pudgy in the middle and still not built in the upper body. What is he, 28? He's not going to fill out any more without hitting the weights harder.

I hope marriage changes that for the better, but I haven't seen it yet. How many stories about "Konerko in camp in best shape of life" do we hear?

He had his worst year as a pro, and he doesn't appear to have come to Spring Training ready to turn it around.

That is my concern. I'm not going by numbers here, either, so don't give me the "It's 2 weeks into ST" crap. He had 5 months to get in great shape. He's being paid 8 million dollars to be a professional athlete, it's time he learned to work and prepare like one...

Deadguy
03-09-2004, 10:10 AM
Looks like that offseason spent doing Dorito curls is really paying dividends for Paulie.

I really wish he was in Vero Beach right now. Not that I really care what he's done so far this Spring, but what I saw last year when we needed him the most was vomit inducing enough. Don't forget, this clown finished the 2003 campaign in a 3 for 47 slump and hit just .190 in September.

Randar68
03-09-2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Deadguy
Looks like that offseason spent doing Dorito curls is really paying dividends for Paulie.

I really wish he was in Vero Beach right now. Not that I really care what he's done so far this Spring, but what I saw last year when we needed him the most was vomit inducing enough. Don't forget, this clown finished the 2003 campaign in a 3 for 47 slump and hit just .190 in September.

I wouldn't say that, but for someone genetically limited in terms of natural physique, he doesn't seem to have the dedication or drive to go from average player to outstanding player.

JMHO.

Iwritecode
03-09-2004, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
My only problem with Konerko is this:

He's more than willing to try to be the team spokesman and supposed leader, yet he's never in great shape and in the past, has spent WAAAAY too much time :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: and not nearly enough time in the gym. Frank Thomas comes to every Spring Training in GREAT shape, yet here is Konerko, still pudgy in the middle and still not built in the upper body. What is he, 28? He's not going to fill out any more without hitting the weights harder.

I hope marriage changes that for the better, but I haven't seen it yet. How many stories about "Konerko in camp in best shape of life" do we hear?

He had his worst year as a pro, and he doesn't appear to have come to Spring Training ready to turn it around.

That is my concern. I'm not going by numbers here, either, so don't give me the "It's 2 weeks into ST" crap. He had 5 months to get in great shape. He's being paid 8 million dollars to be a professional athlete, it's time he learned to work and prepare like one...

Usually you hear about players getting into better shape AFTER they leave the Sox. Not sure why that is.

Maybe having Ozzie on his ass all year long will motivate him a little???

Should that last line be in deep pink?

Deadguy
03-09-2004, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Usually you hear about players getting into better shape AFTER they leave the Sox. Not sure why that is.

Maybe having Ozzie on his ass all year long will motivate him a little???

Should that last line be in deep pink?

Considering his age, and the money he makes, you'd think/hope that he'd be self motivated and responsible enough to find a way to get out of this rut on his own, without someone having to constantly get on his case.

I really have to wonder what management saw in him to justify giving him that ridiculous contract. You'd think they'd be perceptive enough to see what his work ethic is like, without even getting into the argument that his production at peak values doesn't even justify what he is making now. He and Carlos have had pretty similar careers (at least through 2002), but I always looked at Carlos as someone who we could at least count on to be there for the entire season. Konerko has ALWAYS disappeared for at least one month, throughout his career. Guys who are considered team leaders and who are among the highest paid players on the team can't just disappear for an entire month, and hit below .200 with almost zero production. Carlos is no stud, but at least we can count on him for some consistency.

Randar68
03-09-2004, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Deadguy
Considering his age, and the money he makes, you'd think/hope that he'd be self motivated and responsible enough to find a way to get out of this rut on his own, without someone having to constantly get on his case.


That has been my primary concern. He seems to have been worried about bar specials the past several years than getting in the weight room.

He has a lot of physical talent as a hitter, and if his hip prevents him from running, he can get his ass in a pool and swim. There is just too much nutritional and physical training available to these guys to accept a guy his age is not capable of being in significantly better shape than he has been the past several years.

I think it shows a lack of commitment, and if I'm a teammate, I let him know my thoughts on it, whether he wants to hear it or not. For all his talk of Frank not being a team player, Frank has always been in great shape and worked his ass off in the offseason. I haven't seen ANY of that drive from Pauly.

Lip Man 1
03-09-2004, 12:47 PM
Folks:

I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with any presumptions about Konerko. I was mearly pointing out that he hammers pitching in the spring, that has been his M.O. since he's been with the Sox in Arizona. Given his incredible batting average in the spring, for the past three or four years his 1-7 start is unusual.

Me thinks some folks are as guilty of making assumptions here as I've been accused of.

Lip

hftrex
03-09-2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
That is my concern. I'm not going by numbers here, either, so don't give me the "It's 2 weeks into ST" crap. He had 5 months to get in great shape. He's being paid 8 million dollars to be a professional athlete, it's time he learned to work and prepare like one...



Paul Konerko = Eddie Curry = Tyler Arnason


Perhaps when the NHL season ends, Ozzie should ask Brian Sutter to take Konerko out to a bar.......................................

Randar68
03-09-2004, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by hftrex
Paul Konerko = Eddie Curry = Tyler Arnason


Perhaps when the NHL season ends, Ozzie should ask Brian Sutter to take Konerko out to a bar.......................................

Curry's problem isn't with booze, if ya know what I mean. Mike Caruso had the same problem. That guy smoked himself out of the majors...

For the record, I have no problem with any of that if the player is still capable of staying in shape and taking care of their professional responsibilities, which include being in top possible physical shape.

Deadguy
03-10-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Randar68

I think it shows a lack of commitment, and if I'm a teammate, I let him know my thoughts on it, whether he wants to hear it or not. For all his talk of Frank not being a team player, Frank has always been in great shape and worked his ass off in the offseason. I haven't seen ANY of that drive from Pauly.

I guess the media and the fans just give him a pass because he fits the image of the hard-working, blue collar type of player, while Thomas fits the image of the "overpaid, greedy, overweight, surly, lazy", superstar. In reality, it's probably Thomas who has the strong work ethic, while Konerko is the lazy, arrogant prick.

I do agree that someone needs to get on Konerko's case, and maybe that person is Thomas. He helped Konerko last August in smoothing out his swing. This really shouldn't have to be a teammate's responsibility, however, especially when we're talking about a player in Konerko who has been in the league for years, and is getting paid as much as he is. He should have enough pride and feel enough personal responsibility to get himself prepared for the season. Management should really take into account things like work eithic and a guy's personality before giving him a fat contract. Considering the self-imposed budget, we can't afford to allocate this much income to a marginal player like Konerko.

I did see an article in the Sun Times earlier this spring about Carlos Lee in which Thomas indicated that earlier last season he had to get on Carlos' case about getting his work done in the weight room and the batting cage. Hopefull Carlos has turned the corner in terms of his work ethic since the beginning of last year, because I'd hate to see the Sox get burned again.

It's obvious that Thomas' work ethic has rubbed off on Aaron Rowand, though, and he's the type of blue-collar, hard worker that we should all get behind and support.

RichFitztightly
03-10-2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy

It's obvious that Thomas' work ethic has rubbed off on Aaron Rowand, though, and he's the type of blue-collar, hard worker that we should all get behind and support.

Yeah I'll say. I never minded Rowand last season, with exception to his poor performance earlier in the year. However, the reports of his work ethic and hot start in spring training have put me on his band wagon.

I think we'll call this band wagon -- Rowand Rowdies and it'll rival Crede's Crew.