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habibharu
03-08-2004, 10:49 AM
what do we do if willie harris cant play 2b? right now we are just assuming that he will play 2b and be a good leadoff hitter, but what if he doesnt deliever? who's out there for us to pick up?

Hangar18
03-08-2004, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
what do we do if willie harris cant play 2b? right now we are just assuming that he will play 2b and be a good leadoff hitter, but what if he doesnt deliever? who's out there for us to pick up?

That is a very big concern. The Sox Foolishly didnt address
the 2b AND Leadoff situation, something theyre simply Handing on a Silver Platter to an unproven hitter. Its not like the guy hit .350 in the minors as a leadoff hitter. Were going into the season with way too many Question Marks (leadoff, 2b,catcher, Cf, #3,4,5 starter) to really be considered being Serious about
winning. Sure, I think OZZ is having a great effect on the team,
but Cmon, You would think this administration wouldve learned by now that the LESS question marks you have when the Season starts.......the Better your chances are. Last time the Sox had LESS question marks, was 1994 season. For them to continue to tempt fate like this......is Foolish

Hangar18
03-08-2004, 10:59 AM
Hell, Todd Walker was out there. Look at what he signed for....
and to be a BACKUP. other team stocking bench, were trying to unload Maggs

Tekijawa
03-08-2004, 11:26 AM
Scott Schoeiwiesse still being penciled in as the 4th and Ozzie even said maybe 3rd starter... I can pitch better than this guy! I think if all else fails that we could move LEE into the leadoff spot... He may not be the prototype lead off hitter but he got on base last year and probably has some of the better speed on the team for a guy wo get's on base more than 2 out of 10 times...

SoxxoS
03-08-2004, 11:47 AM
We just need to catch lightning in a bottle and hope we make it to late June/early July in contention...either in 1st or in 2nd by 1 or 2 games...Then I have the confidence KW will make the moves we need.

The Critic
03-08-2004, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Hell, Todd Walker was out there. Look at what he signed for....
and to be a BACKUP. other team stocking bench, were trying to unload Maggs

Todd Walker wasn't coming to the Sox. He turned down a better offer from ( I believe it was )Cleveland because "that other Chicago team" is seen as a more realistic opportunity to be in the playoffs. The Sox would have had to try to outbid other teams, and they're just not going to do that with their "payroll restrictions".
All the eggs are in Willie's basket.

JRIG
03-08-2004, 11:59 AM
:KW
"Willie Harris won't fail! And to make sure he won't fail, I've traded away all of our organizational depth at second base!"

kraut83
03-08-2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
We just need to catch lightning in a bottle and hope we make it to late June/early July in contention...either in 1st or in 2nd by 1 or 2 games...Then I have the confidence KW will make the moves we need.

Agreed, my concern though is if we are in first, and say only 2 or 3 games over .500, does Jerry still open up his wallet for business?

Randar68
03-08-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
what do we do if willie harris cant play 2b? right now we are just assuming that he will play 2b and be a good leadoff hitter, but what if he doesnt deliever? who's out there for us to pick up?

I didn't see this addressed (might have missed it), but Uribe can CERTAINLY play second.

Harris or Uribe could play second. Aaron Miles is a fire hydrant anyways, so I hope people aren't going to start freaking out if he hits .290 in Colorado...

The_Floridian
03-08-2004, 12:24 PM
Hangar listed the 3, 4, & 5 starters, CF, catcher, 2b, and leadoff as concerns. I think we're in better shape on some of these than it seems, although I do agree that the leadoff spot is a concern.

I think it's a stretch to say the catcher position is questionable. Olivo is solid defensively and the pitching staff seems to have a good repoire with him. So he's a number 9 hitter. You don't need big lumber out of your catcher in the AL, and we're not hurting for sluggers. Olivo's defense need only be average at best, expecially if he ensures that most teams won't be running on us.

I also think center field is in good hands. I know Rowand isn't Carl Everett, but he hit .387 last season after the break. He started the year injured, and while I son't expect him to shatter any records, his number should be up from last year. He doesn't have the range of the best center fielders, but he is strong enough defensively to merit his starting there.

Second base is a concern. Willie's defense seems to be improving, which is good. If we weren't banking on him to be our leadoff hitter, I'd feel fine about having him start and be the no. 8 or 9 hitter. If he turns out to be a total washout, Uribe can step in and put up better numbers.

Although this does not really solve our leadoff problem.

As for the pitching, I'm a little nervous there too. I think Garland will be better than he was last year, and after eating 191 innings last year, we at least know he's not going to burn out. Schoenweis is more a of a concern, as is our mystery fifth starter. But I still say that, with Buehrle and Loaiza, our rotation is better than K.C.'s and pretty close to Minnesota's. Having the bullpen we have will take some of the pressure off our rotation if the bottom guys are looking weak, but Garland does need to step up.

Overall, I don't thinkw e have as many holes as advertised. I'd be a lot more concerned if we weren't in the AL Central. As it is, I think we're good enough to win the division.

I just hope Willie can lead off.

Tekijawa
03-08-2004, 12:25 PM
This should probably be in Deep pink, but I just had an epiphany!!! What happens in June when we finally figuer out that Harris can't play 2b and then turn to Texas... Trade them Koch and 1 or 2 Pitching prospects for Soriano, who the seem to want to get rid of, the Contracts would balance out of the remained of the season and we get our 2nd base lead off guy...

Frater Perdurabo
03-08-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
That is a very big concern. The Sox Foolishly didnt address
the 2b AND Leadoff situation, something theyre simply Handing on a Silver Platter to an unproven hitter.

Can you imagine if the Sox didn't make just THREE foolish trades over the past few years: The Cameron for Konerko trade, the Wells/Fogg/Lowe for Ritchie trade and the Durham for Adkins trade; then their 2004 lineup would be:

Durham 2B
Cameron CF
Frank DH/1B
Maggs RF
Lee LF
Valentin SS
Crede 3B
Gload 1B/DH
Olivo C

If you want to get even more angry, imagine combining that lineup with a starting rotation of:

Buehrle
Loaiza
Wells
Garland
Rauch

The point of all this deeppink fantasy is that the biggest question marks on this team -- CF, 2B and the rotation -- were caused by trading away solid major league answers to those questions -- answers that came up through the Sox minor league system! I dare say the Sox would have gone deep into the playoffs in 2003 with Wells, Cameron and Durham on the team, and this year the same thing. :angry:

Randar68
03-08-2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
Can you imagine if the Sox didn't make just THREE foolish trades over the past few years: The Cameron for Konerko trade, the Wells/Fogg/Lowe for Ritchie trade and the Durham for Adkins trade; then their 2004 lineup would be:

Durham 2B
Cameron CF
Frank DH/1B
Maggs RF
Lee LF
Valentin SS
Crede 3B
Gload 1B/DH
Olivo C

If you want to get even more angry, imagine combining that lineup with a starting rotation of:

Buehrle
Loaiza
Wells
Garland
Rauch

The point of all this deeppink fantasy is that the biggest question marks on this team -- CF, 2B and the rotation -- were caused by trading away solid major league answers to those questions -- answers that came up through the Sox minor league system! I dare say the Sox would have gone deep into the playoffs in 2003 with Wells, Cameron and Durham on the team, and this year the same thing. :angry:


And our payroll would be what? 85-90 Million easy?

Besides, I really don't see that as being a significantly better rotation than what we're going to end up with.

Lip Man 1
03-08-2004, 01:21 PM
I don't think this guy is the answer (I remember Joe Cowley's story where he spoke with members of the Rockies) and said Juan Uribe is just another poor man's D'Angelo Jimenez, but I will say this.

WGN-TV (which has had more spring game video on the Sox then Cubs by the way) showed Uribe hitting that triple to right center off the D-Backs last night, and he was exploding around second base.

I have to go back to Lance Johnson the last time I saw anybody moving that quickly for the Sox around the bases. That kid can run at least.

Lip

Tekijawa
03-08-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I don't think this guy is the answer (I remember Joe Cowley's story where he spoke with members of the Rockies) and said Juan Uribe is just another poor man's D'Angelo Jimenez, but I will say this.
... showed Uribe hitting that triple to right center off the D-Backs last night, and he was exploding around second base.

If I remember correctly Jimenez always had a great ST and then just plain blew the rest of the year...

Randar68
03-08-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I don't think this guy is the answer (I remember Joe Cowley's story where he spoke with members of the Rockies) and said Juan Uribe is just another poor man's D'Angelo Jimenez, but I will say this.

WGN-TV (which has had more spring game video on the Sox then Cubs by the way) showed Uribe hitting that triple to right center off the D-Backs last night, and he was exploding around second base.

I have to go back to Lance Johnson the last time I saw anybody moving that quickly for the Sox around the bases. That kid can run at least.

Lip

I'll take a poor-man's Jimenez if he doesn't make bone-headed baserunning and fielding mistakes constantly...

Frater Perdurabo
03-08-2004, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
And our payroll would be what? 85-90 Million easy?

Besides, I really don't see that as being a significantly better rotation than what we're going to end up with.

Do you really think the payroll would be that much more?

Sure, the Sox would have to pay Durham ($6.0M in 2003) and Cameron's ($6.5M in 2004) salaries; but they wouldn't have to pay Konerko's ($8.0M in 2004). Kip Wells will make $2.575M this year. That would be a total difference of $7.075M over the Sox current 2004 payroll.

Yes, we are talking about Reinsdorf, but by his own rhetoric I think he'd have opened his wallet more if the Sox had made a few more playoff appearances over the past few years (and the increased attendance and therefore higher revenues if the Sox had had multiple playoff appearances over the past several seasons).

Again, it is a deeppink fantasy, but it is a fair measure by which Schu and KW should be evaluated.

jeremyb1
03-08-2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
If I remember correctly Jimenez always had a great ST and then just plain blew the rest of the year...

Not true. .297/.396/.549 in April, .294/.375/.365 in May, .337/.396/.430 in July, .290/.374/.430 in August, and .247/.327/.402 in September last season. June (.565 OPS) was his only poor month with mediocre numbers in May and September.

doublem23
03-08-2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Its not like the guy hit .350 in the minors as a leadoff hitter.

You're right. He hit .380 with a .470 OBP.

Too much "woe is us" bull**** in this thread. Last year, Jimenez posted a .332 OBP in 73 games with the Sox and Alomar .330 in 67 yet this team nearly scored 800 runs.

E Coast Sox Fan
03-08-2004, 02:10 PM
Don't forget that the Orioles may want to trade Jerry Hairston (The Orioles would be looking for an Arm in exchange). Since he broke a finger (or some other minor injury) he'll be missing most of Spring Training and will lose the position battle.

His salary isn't super expensive, he's definately a leadoff hitter, his Dad wore a Sox uniform, and he'll be ready to play by the time we find out if Willie has game or not.

benjamin
03-08-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


You're right. He hit .380 with a .470 OBP.

Too much "woe is us" bull**** in this thread. Last year, Jimenez posted a .332 OBP in 73 games with the Sox and Alomar .330 in 67 yet this team nearly scored 800 runs.


Beat me to it...

SoxxoS
03-08-2004, 03:13 PM
Imagine if we had a real leadoff hitter then...the 800 runs might equal 850 or 875...who knows.

I am not satisfied with 800 just b/c it's a good number, not when there is the ability behind the #1 hitter to drive in more runs than that.

Hangar18
03-08-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by The Critic
Todd Walker wasn't coming to the Sox. He turned down a better offer from ( I believe it was )Cleveland because "that other Chicago team" is seen as a more realistic opportunity to be in the playoffs.

Dont believe everything you read. Who gave you that quote?
Mike Kiley? IF anyone remembers, this quote came from a Kiley "hurrah-look-everyone-even-Todd-Walker-wants-to-play-for-Dusty-and-go-to-Series" Fluff Piece and didnt mention the fact that there were only 2 real teams interested in him, one of which was the flubs who came in at the last second, Cruised the MLB Alley and Dumpsters, and happened to find Walker still "available".

doublem23
03-08-2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Imagine if we had a real leadoff hitter then...the 800 runs might equal 850 or 875...who knows.

I am not satisfied with 800 just b/c it's a good number, not when there is the ability behind the #1 hitter to drive in more runs than that.

Nor am I but if Willie Harris can somehow muster a .330 OBP (which, I agree is still a stretch), we're not sitting as bad as the Chicken Littles will try to convince you.