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phillyguy8
03-07-2004, 03:49 PM
Hey White Sox fans, I am from Philadelphia, am working on a project, and need some help. Not ever going to Chicago or having friends that live there, I need help trying to find out what Chicago sports fans are all about. From my preliminary research, it looks like you guys are a lot like Philly fans in terms of our passion and desire to win. Basically, my question is, how would you characterize Chicago sports fans? What makes you unique? Are the bears most people's #1 team with baseball falling in next? I know a little about the south side vs north, but any extra help would be great wrt to the intercity baseball rivalry. How much do most Sox fans dislike the Cubs? Personally, as a Phillies fan, I'm so sick and tired of hearing about them and the Red Sox. We're the losingest franchise in the history of professional sports with only 1 world series in over 100 years. It gives me enough reason to root against them each year, so I'm with ya.

Also, I need to know about the coverage of chicago sports in your city. I know you have fox sports net, but it seems like that is mostly national coverage. I also read about chicagoland tv, but it seems like only certain cable providers have this station. Is this right? Are there any stations specifically designed for local Chicago sports? It seems like a 1st class sports city could use one of these, and this is what I'm working on. Basically, starting on October 1st, you will have a new station in town which will give you all local sports all the time. My job is to figre out the best way to launch this campaign (for a class). What do you guys think? Is there a place you would advertise over some other place (ie: a billboard vs sports radio vs transit ads)? I hope I haven't confused anyone, and any help here would be awesome. Thanks so much guys.

PS I named myself phillyguy25 when signing up originally (it didnt go through), and then 12 hours later Jim Thome broke his finger. It shows you the jinx power I have, and if you don't help me, I'll put one out on Ordonez and Loaiza (who singlehandedly carried my fantasy team last year). :) Thanks again and I hope to see you guys in October.

If this is off topic and doesn't belong in this forum, let me know.

Realist
03-07-2004, 03:57 PM
The link below will give you a good running start. Cruise this site and start clicking on threads that sound like they may contain information you're looking for, but be forewarned, these guys are totally biased. :D:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29911

Hangar18
03-07-2004, 03:57 PM
Know this. We hate the Cubs...but not simply to just hate them.
From them being favored by the Media for years, to them Running the last commissioner out of baseball, to them having the Dumbest Fans in Professional Sports, I have a list of 1,000 reasons why I dislike them. For instance, I saw a cub fan last nite at a bar, asked him to name me 10players on teh cubs...
couldnt get past 5. Pathetic

phillyguy8
03-07-2004, 04:05 PM
Thanks for the help so far.

Judging by all the posts on your spring training game today, it seems like a fair bet to call you guys passionate. How else would you characerize yourselves.

TornLabrum
03-07-2004, 04:11 PM
I think you could describe the rivalry between Sox and Cubs fans as bitter. Most Sox fans hate everything the "lovable losers" stand for, i.e. losing, although our club hasn't done all that much better in the winning department.

Since about 1982 or so, the neighborhood around Wrigley Field has become fashionable, which makes that dump a "hip" (to use a word from my generation) place to be. Our impression of Cubs fans is that they prefer going to their outdoor beer garden and ogling chicks more than watching a ball game. This is especially true in the bleacher seats and in the field box seats there where the corproate types sit.

The Sox fans on the other hand seem to be much more passionate about the failures of their club.

As for TV coverage, most games of both teams are televised. The majority of both are on Fox Sports Chicago, the local Fox SportsNet outlet. Occasionally a game gets put on "Fox Sports Plus" which is the CLTV you mentioned. This occurs when Fox Sports is scheduled to televise both teams the same night.

The rest of the games are seen either on WGN-TV (a superstation) or WCIU-TV, which is strictly a local UHF station (channel 26), produced by WGN.

Next year Comcast, which provides most of the cable service, especially in the suburbs, is putting together a local cable channel for the games that Fox used to carry. This is a partnership between Comcast, the Sox, Cubs, Bulls, and Blackhawks.

In response to your question about who is the #1 team for most sports fans, I'd say this. Most Chicagoans are Bears fans, although a few older southsiders I know, who are still upset about the Cardinals moving to St. Louis (and now Arizona), became Packers fans because they figured George Halas drove the Cardinals out of town.

However, I'd say that you could characterize the Bears as being the one club that most Chicagoans root for and follow, at least if the coverage they get on local sportstalk radio stations is any indication. The Bulls were pretty popular during the Jordan era, and they still sell out. However, I don't think fans are nearly as passionate about them as the Bears.

As for the 'Hawks...well the less said the better. Until their owner, "Dollar" Bill Wirtz dies, they will continue to fight with the minor league Wolves for who has the larger attendance.

Meixner007
03-07-2004, 04:15 PM
A little off topic, but whenever I'm feeling a little blue i go here.

Click here (http://www.angelfire.com/il2/cubssuck/index.htm)

Realist
03-07-2004, 04:20 PM
Be sure to clear the kiddies outta the room and click on "Lee Elias Rant" in the link that Meixner provided. It's a hoot. :D:

ChiSox14305635
03-07-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Realist
Be sure to clear the kiddies outta the room and click on "Lee Elias Rant" in the link that Meixner provided. It's a hoot. :D:


That, my friend, is the greatest f'in rant in f'in history! :)

Dan H
03-07-2004, 04:51 PM
Historically speaking, the Sox fans were the more the blue collar. At one time, night games started at 8pm to give the working guy a chance to get home, eat and still make it on time to the ballpark. On the South Side near Old Comiskey were stock yards and steel mills. The Sox fan was anti-authoritarian (something Jerry Reinsdorf can't understand) and many times still has a knee jerk reaction to Sox managment. The blue collar manufacturing jobs are gone now and so the blue collar identity may not be as strong now. One thing is for certain: we don't like the gentrified Cub fan that doesn't know a double play from a triple. And of course, losing is never lovalbe to us.

pudge
03-07-2004, 04:58 PM
My two cents is that, yes, the Bears are the #1 team, followed closely by the city's passion for baseball. Right now, the city amazingly supports the Bulls very well, but that's just carry-over from Jordan and six titles; despite all the success the Bulls had, I don't sense people care about them as much as the other teams (maybe because they've already achieved all there is to achieve). That's not to say the city wasn't fanatical about the Bulls when they were hot... I'd put the '96 Bulls right behind the '85 Bears as the city's most popular modern-day teams.

I think Chicago's love of sports is similar to the passion found on the east coast because of two large factors: a) a long history of professional sports, and b) a lack of other appealing entertainment options. I've lived in other parts of the country, particularly the west coast where there's so much more to do, whether it's the beaches of California or the mountains of the Pacific Northwest. As a result, the passion isn't there like it is in the mid-west or east coast -- at least not yet.

Chrisaway
03-07-2004, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Meixner007
A little off topic, but whenever I'm feeling a little blue i go here.

Click here (http://www.angelfire.com/il2/cubssuck/index.htm)


That link made me laugh hard. Gracias.

HomeFish
03-07-2004, 05:53 PM
One of my favorite comments concerning Sox fans and Cub fans: When a Cub player hits a pop-up, the fans stand up and cheer. When a Sox player hits a home run, the fans stand up and boo.

Now, most Sox fans (unlike myself) are not that pessimistic or willing to boo, but I think the comment hits Cub fans right on the head. Most of them WILL cheer when they see a pop-up or a high flyout because they will expect it to be a homerun. Sox fans, on the other hand, are more likely to boo a homerun because we have a long history of guys trying to hit for power and failing badly. We don't want them trying for homeruns if they can get singles or doubles far more easily and in greater numbers.

SoxFan76
03-07-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Meixner007
A little off topic, but whenever I'm feeling a little blue i go here.

Click here (http://www.angelfire.com/il2/cubssuck/index.htm)

That's a great site. It makes you wonder how anyone can still be a Cubs fan. If only all Cub fans could see that site, I wonder how many would switch to the good side.

As for the first post, this is a Bears city, but I feel it's not by much. Baseball is just as important around here as football. Especially for White Sox fans. Unlike the Cubs, the White Sox have had many successful seasons over the years, just with no postseason success. The Cubs have been horrible since the Sox beat them in 1906. I am a fan of football and baseball, but the anticipation for football season doesn't compare to baseball season in my opinion. I think many others feel this way as well. It seems as if fans only get crazy over the Bears, Bulls, and Hawks if they are winning. But baseball in Chicago, that includes both teams, always seems to excite everybody more than football ever could.

The coverage in Chicago is horrible. I would say it's one of the worst in the country, but I have never been to other areas to say that. But it is pretty bad. Whether the Cubs are 5 outs from the World Series, or they lose 100 games, they get so much coverage, it's sickening. While the White Sox have had many successful seasons over the years, they have played second to the Cubs for awhile now. It's bad enough the Cubs get all this coverage, but every media person has become brainwashed into thinking the Sox are inferior as a team. They are treated like a joke. Sammy is considered a role model and a legend around here, when in fact he he is 10 times worse than Frank Thomas ever was, yet Frank is considered the bad guy. It is really ashame too. Frank is one of the greatest hitters of all time, and he played in Chicago. Not to mention he never needed steroids. But he gets so much crap, it's ridiculous. Whew, I could go on forever. This topic gets me so aggravated.

soxtalker
03-07-2004, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by phillyguy8
Hey White Sox fans, I am from Philadelphia, am working on a project, and need some help. ...

Also, I need to know about the coverage of chicago sports in your city. I know you have fox sports net, but it seems like that is mostly national coverage. I also read about chicagoland tv, but it seems like only certain cable providers have this station. Is this right? Are there any stations specifically designed for local Chicago sports? It seems like a 1st class sports city could use one of these, and this is what I'm working on. Basically, starting on October 1st, you will have a new station in town which will give you all local sports all the time. My job is to figre out the best way to launch this campaign (for a class). What do you guys think? Is there a place you would advertise over some other place (ie: a billboard vs sports radio vs transit ads)? I hope I haven't confused anyone, and any help here would be awesome. Thanks so much guys.
....

Am I correct in assuming that this is a class project, and that we aren't really going to be getting a new station in town on October 1? If I'm incorrect in this assumption and we are getting a new station (i.e., this is real marketing research), can we get any more information? Is it radio, free TV, or cable?

Lip Man 1
03-07-2004, 07:26 PM
As Sox author and team hisorian Rich Lindberg noted in his book, "Who's On 3rd? The Chicago White Sox Story" (Page 169)

"A working class town such as Chicago identifies with its teams. Church, family and baseball and not necessarily in that order."

Lip

CWSGuy406
03-07-2004, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
As for the first post, this is a Bears city, but I feel it's not by much. Baseball is just as important around here as football. Especially for White Sox fans. Unlike the Cubs, the White Sox have had many successful seasons over the years, just with no postseason success. The Cubs have been horrible since the Sox beat them in 1906. I am a fan of football and baseball, but the anticipation for football season doesn't compare to baseball season in my opinion. I think many others feel this way as well. It seems as if fans only get crazy over the Bears, Bulls, and Hawks if they are winning. But baseball in Chicago, that includes both teams, always seems to excite everybody more than football ever could.



Yeah, but just like there are us smart/loyal Sox fans, there are fans just as loyal to a worse franchise in the Hawks. Just because there's a small number of us doesn't mean that we're not there.

Railsplitter
03-07-2004, 09:21 PM
Actually, one of the dirty little secrets about Chicago fans is that they can be as front running as any other place. I remember back in the mid seventies when blackouts of Bears home games weren't unusual. I can recall at least one time in the late ninties where the CBS station in Chicago bought up 2,000 Bears tickets to avert a blackout.
I never cared about the Bulls (or basketball) before Micheal Jordon came along, like some the Bulls' season tickets holders in the Jordan era. But I didn't care when they were winning or losing.
Prior to 1984, you only saw large weekday crowds at Wrigley between Memorial Day and Labor Day.
As stated by another poster, the Blackhawks record has slipped so badlt that the Ninor league Wolves are outdrawing them.
And yes, the White sox attendance rises and falls in direct prorortion to thier won-loss record.

minastirith67
03-07-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
That's a great site. It makes you wonder how anyone can still be a Cubs fan. If only all Cub fans could see that site, I wonder how many would switch to the good side.

As for the first post, this is a Bears city, but I feel it's not by much. Baseball is just as important around here as football. Especially for White Sox fans. Unlike the Cubs, the White Sox have had many successful seasons over the years, just with no postseason success. The Cubs have been horrible since the Sox beat them in 1906. I am a fan of football and baseball, but the anticipation for football season doesn't compare to baseball season in my opinion. I think many others feel this way as well. It seems as if fans only get crazy over the Bears, Bulls, and Hawks if they are winning. But baseball in Chicago, that includes both teams, always seems to excite everybody more than football ever could.

The coverage in Chicago is horrible. I would say it's one of the worst in the country, but I have never been to other areas to say that. But it is pretty bad. Whether the Cubs are 5 outs from the World Series, or they lose 100 games, they get so much coverage, it's sickening. While the White Sox have had many successful seasons over the years, they have played second to the Cubs for awhile now. It's bad enough the Cubs get all this coverage, but every media person has become brainwashed into thinking the Sox are inferior as a team. They are treated like a joke. Sammy is considered a role model and a legend around here, when in fact he he is 10 times worse than Frank Thomas ever was, yet Frank is considered the bad guy. It is really ashame too. Frank is one of the greatest hitters of all time, and he played in Chicago. Not to mention he never needed steroids. But he gets so much crap, it's ridiculous. Whew, I could go on forever. This topic gets me so aggravated.


So if some people are born and raised Cub fans they just throw their interest in the club out the door as soon as they read that site?!? Seems pretty fickle to me.

ChiSox14305635
03-07-2004, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Railsplitter
Actually, one of the dirty little secrets about Chicago fans is that they can be as front running as any other place. I remember back in the mid seventies when blackouts of Bears home games weren't unusual. I can recall at least one time in the late ninties where the CBS station in Chicago bought up 2,000 Bears tickets to avert a blackout.
I never cared about the Bulls (or basketball) before Micheal Jordon came along, like some the Bulls' season tickets holders in the Jordan era. But I didn't care when they were winning or losing.
Prior to 1984, you only saw large weekday crowds at Wrigley between Memorial Day and Labor Day.
As stated by another poster, the Blackhawks record has slipped so badlt that the Ninor league Wolves are outdrawing them.
And yes, the White sox attendance rises and falls in direct prorortion to thier won-loss record.


I've heard at one time, the one team that was king in Chicago were the Blackhawks, especially during the '70s. The fact that some of the biggest names wore Blackhawk sweaters (Hull, Mikita, Esposito, Savard, Chelios, Roenick, Belfour, etc) really shows how bad the Wirtz ownership really has been. Next to White Sox fans, Blackhawk fans have got to be the longest suffering.

phillyguy8
03-07-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Am I correct in assuming that this is a class project, and that we aren't really going to be getting a new station in town on October 1? If I'm incorrect in this assumption and we are getting a new station (i.e., this is real marketing research), can we get any more information? Is it radio, free TV, or cable?

Yes, starting October 1st you will be getting a new sports station. Comcast Sportsnet will be taking over for Fox Sports Net. Chicago joins Philadelphia (this is the station I get my sports) and the Mid-Atlantic (D.C and Baltimore) region to have Comcast Sportsnet. They, not fox sports will have your major sports teams. To my knowledge, all subscribers will get this station. They will show all local sports. Rather than national coverage (they will probably still have best damn sports show and other big time national shows) they will feature local coverage. It's very cool for the Chicago sports fan. You will have post game coverage for all games on tv and all bears games. There will be other local shows rather than just the paid programming that's on now. In Philly, we have a show that features the sports writers from our Daily News in a rountable discussion about the news in local sports. After a while it builds on you and it is very enjoyable. But the best part of Sportnet (other than their awesome game coverage) is a show called sportsnight and sportrise. They are like sportscenter except they have a local focus. The show is devoted to local sports. So instead of the bears getting 1 minute on sportcenter or 2 minutes on the local news you will get 10 minutes on sportsrise/sportnight. It's a half an hour show and you get some national too, just not as much as sportscenter. I watch both. Since the comcast show is only 30 minutes it''s very doable.

I am taking a class and our project is to launch this station in Chicago, and rather than just tell you about it, I figured I'd ask for help. We have the same kind of format on our Philaphans.com Phillies site so it's easy for me to navigate. Thanks again for the help and feel free to ask any more questions. Any more help with information about Chicagoans would be awesome. I'm waiting to tape the Illinois highlights now. Congrats to the Illini fans out there.

chisox06
03-08-2004, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by HomeFish
Sox fans, on the other hand, are more likely to boo a homerun because we have a long history of guys trying to hit for power and failing badly. We don't want them trying for homeruns if they can get singles or doubles far more easily and in greater numbers.

If you can give me one instance when you've heard more boo's than cheers when a sox player hits a homer, I'll give you the keys to my house. The pop ups and the cubs fans, its spot on however.

owensmouth
03-08-2004, 04:01 AM
You might want to pass along to Comcast that if they want to ingratiate themselves with Chicago fans, their first rule should be to forget New York.

Any team that goes by the name New York *.* is absolutely hated in Chicago. If it is necessary to mention one of them, the comments should be limited to the final 15 seconds of the show. Better yet, just include them in the credits at the end of the broadcast.

Like any rule, this one has its exceptions. If Steinbottom croaks; anytime a Yankee gets thrown in jail; when Sheffield and/or Giambi admit to using steroids; news like this deserves to be heard.

THE SOX ARE WHITE...Boston is red! "Chisox" is a foreign word.

OurBitchinMinny
03-08-2004, 02:14 PM
I would say the bears are the towns favorite team. They are up and coming and all of the town supports them whether they stink or not. Baseball is divided. Half the town hates the cubs, half the town hates the sox (although sox fans hate the cubs more). And the bulls and hawks are just a joke. But somehow the bulls still draw and if they win again they are just as popular as the bears. Its fair to say the least favored right now is the hawks, so much so that i have become a minnesota wild fan. I vowed when I moved to minny that i would not become a fan of any of their teams, but that was before the wild existed.

kittle42
03-08-2004, 03:57 PM
You want the skinny on Chicago sports fans? Here are the two most telling things...

1. Merely making the playoffs in this town is the equivalent of winning a championship in almost any other town.

2. If a team does win a championship here, they will be revered for decades to come while other cities enjoy multiple titles in multiple sports. Do any Bear fans in Chicago actually step outside themselves and realize how ridiculous it is to pretend like 1985 was yesterday?

DSpivack
03-08-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
You want the skinny on Chicago sports fans? Here are the two most telling things...

1. Merely making the playoffs in this town is the equivalent of winning a championship in almost any other town.

2. If a team does win a championship here, they will be revered for decades to come while other cities enjoy multiple titles in multiple sports. Do any Bear fans in Chicago actually step outside themselves and realize how ridiculous it is to pretend like 1985 was yesterday?

Kinda ironic that a town that loves sports so much sucks so much at it.

SoxFan76
03-08-2004, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by minastirith67
So if some people are born and raised Cub fans they just throw their interest in the club out the door as soon as they read that site?!? Seems pretty fickle to me.

Yeah, it's pretty easy for me to say that being a Sox fan. But still, all the stupid things the Cubs have done, or are associated with can make you wonder. That's all I'm saying.

Lip Man 1
03-08-2004, 08:44 PM
DSpivack says: "Kinda ironic that a town that loves sports so much sucks so much at it."

That's what happens when collectively Chicago has the worst owners in all of pro sports.

Lip

Meixner007
03-08-2004, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
DSpivack says: "Kinda ironic that a town that loves sports so much sucks so much at it."

That's what happens when collectively Chicago has the worst owners in all of pro sports.

Lip

Here Here!

They're absolutely atrocious

kittle545feet
03-08-2004, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Realist
Be sure to clear the kiddies outta the room and click on "Lee Elias Rant" in the link that Meixner provided. It's a hoot. :D: boy, does he tell it like it is! elia is my favorite cubs manager. :smile:

kittle545feet
03-08-2004, 09:57 PM
i think sox fans are more proud to be sox fans than cubs fans are to be cubs fans. for the most part, cub fans assume everyone is a cubs fan and can't understand why anyone would hate that team. there are knowledgeable cubs fans out there who i don't mind talkin' baseball with. its the other 90% that know nothing about the team and have bought into the whole cubs feel-good, wrigley field thing, that are the first ones to look at me like i'm nuts for being a sox fan that i can't stand. truth is, sox fans are jealous of the cubs because we are always playing second fiddle to the lovable losers. no matter what we do, we're still not the cubs. this is a cubs town and has been for a while. that is why sox fans hate the cubs so much. we get no respect! they sell out no matter what kind of crap they put on the field and most in wrigley on a saturday in july don't care if they win or lose. they are there to drink beer, sit in the sun and work on their tans,check out broads, look at the ivy, marvel at the crappy scoreboard, and make plans for drinkin' across the street after carrot top sings take me out to the ballgame. as a sox fan, i think we have every right to be jealous of the exposure the cubs get. and jealousy breeds hate. so, it is right and proper to hate the cubs. and any mis-fortune that comes the way of the north-siders is very pleasing to me. but know this, we are SOX FANS FIRST AND FOREMOST! i wouldn't trade places with a cubs fan for anything. i love my fellow sox fans! :kermit

phillyguy8
03-09-2004, 09:33 AM
Thanks to everyone for all of the help so far. I can see why you all get so fired up talking about the Cubs. As a non-partisan observer, we rarely hear about the Sox and when we do, it's always referring to the Red Sox. I would get angry too.

I have another question for you. What are some foods, companies that are big in Chicago? I know you have chicago style pizza, but what else is huge? Here we have cheesesteaks and soft pretzels and big food companies are Tastycake and Yuengling beer. These embody Philly and I assume you guys have the same type of thing. I've heard grumblings about a local beer, but I was told it wasn't that big.

Also, what's the local lingo lke (thats a mouthful)? In Philly for instance, instead of water, we pronounce it wooder. You know, stuff like this. I heard something about "coffee and" but I dont realy know what this is or means. Thanks again.

nlentz88
03-09-2004, 11:57 AM
Chicagoans love to eat. It's practically a sport in its own right.

You're correct to identify pizza as a Chicago staple. However, please note that true Chicago style pizza is not "deep dish" as many out-of-towners think, but instead referred to as "stuffed" or better yet "stuft." The Giordano's chain in Chicago is quite popular, although most Chicagoans will tell you that their local neighborhood ma-and-pa owned pizza place is the best. For example, my favorite is a place in Rogers Park called J.B. Albertos.

However, pizza isn't all we have. Chicago has always been known for its immigrant populations, and these people have shared their ethnic foods with Chicago. Chicago has more Mexican and Thai restaurants than Italian. We have large Indian, Greek, Russian, Vietnamese, and Jewish neighborhoods. All of these neighborhoods have their own fabulous restaurants, and Chicagoans of all ethnicities usually have a taste for this non-standard fare. Don't overlook Chicago's multicultural pluralism in any discussion of the city.

Chicago was once known for its breweries, but these are long gone. The only major brewery still in Chicago is the Goose Island Brewery, and to tell you the truth their beer is not that great. Chicagoan's don't really have a beer to identify with, unlike cities such as Philly, Pittsburg, Milwaukee, or St. Louis.

Chicago is also known for its Chicago Style Hot Dogs. These are truly an art form. Necessary ingredients include the dog (usually a kosher dog), bun, relish, tomato, pickle, celery salt, onions, and often hot peppers. There are dozens of great hot dog spots around the city, and each one often has their own slightly modified version of the Chicago style dog. However, the most critical rule regarding Chicago style dogs is this: use mustard if you will, but never, ever put ketchup on a hot dog!

Another Chicago staple is the sausage. Sausages (be they bratwursts, polish sausages, or kiolbasas) are quite popular at many pubs and restaurants, but they're best when grilled. Chicagoans love to grill, and we usually try to make the most of our brief summers with as much outdoor cooking as possible. But even Chicago's nasty winter weather won't keep Chicagoans from their grills. Come out to a Bears home game any time during the winter and you will find the parking lots filled with tailgaters grilling their brats, swilling their beer, and getting ready for some smashmouth football. Speaking of tailgating, Sox Park is beginning to develop quite the reputation for its tailgating community. No such tailgating ever occurs in parking-strapped Lake View, i.e. the neighborhood many mistakenly call "Wrigleyville."

When discussing Chicago food and its relevance to baseball, it is absolutely necessary to compare the food at the city's two baseball stadiums. Sox Park is known for its high quality and variety of foods. You can find foods of many different ethnicities within the stadium. The churros are often sited. The park sports Connie's pizza, kosher hot dogs, and amazing brats. Wrigley's food, on the other hand, is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I have a pal who works for their concession company (Aramark), who confided that Wrigley has a HUGE rat problem. They find rats among their buns, their dogs, everything. Also, Wrigley sports less than a dozen food counters, so the food lines (like those to their piss troughs and beer vendors) take several innings to maneuver. And on top of it all, their food just doesn't taste good. It must be the rat crap.

There are other Chicago food specialties, but these probably don't have the same sense of Chicago identity as the pizza, hot dogs, and sausages. Eli's cheesecake is very popular. There are dozens of local icecream parlors that were once neighborhood staples but have now become few and far between. Also, Chicagoans love to drink, and you can find a bar on almost every corner of the older neighborhoods.

That's about it. For more information about Chicago's storied food fixation, please consult your local library (or watch our local PBS show "Check Please!" with the scrumptious Alpana Singh).

That is all.

Maximo
03-09-2004, 12:19 PM
Additional things in the category of miscellaneous regarding Chicago:

Best live theater outside of New York City

Home to many great Blues clubs.

Al Capone, Bugs Moran, et.al

Some of the best museums in the country.

As a good a collection of the finest restaurants, watering holes and coffee shops as you'll find anywhere.

Second City......where many of the original Saturday Night Livers
got their start.

hsnterprize
03-09-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by nlentz88
Chicagoans love to eat. It's practically a sport in its own right.

You're correct to identify pizza as a Chicago staple. However, please note that true Chicago style pizza is not "deep dish" as many out-of-towners think, but instead referred to as "stuffed" or better yet "stuft." The Giordano's chain in Chicago is quite popular, although most Chicagoans will tell you that their local neighborhood ma-and-pa owned pizza place is the best. For example, my favorite is a place in Rogers Park called J.B. Albertos.

However, pizza isn't all we have. Chicago has always been known for its immigrant populations, and these people have shared their ethnic foods with Chicago. Chicago has more Mexican and Thai restaurants than Italian. We have large Indian, Greek, Russian, Vietnamese, and Jewish neighborhoods. All of these neighborhoods have their own fabulous restaurants, and Chicagoans of all ethnicities usually have a taste for this non-standard fare. Don't overlook Chicago's multicultural pluralism in any discussion of the city.

Chicago was once known for its breweries, but these are long gone. The only major brewery still in Chicago is the Goose Island Brewery, and to tell you the truth their beer is not that great. Chicagoan's don't really have a beer to identify with, unlike cities such as Philly, Pittsburg, Milwaukee, or St. Louis.

Chicago is also known for its Chicago Style Hot Dogs. These are truly an art form. Necessary ingredients include the dog (usually a kosher dog), bun, relish, tomato, pickle, celery salt, onions, and often hot peppers. There are dozens of great hot dog spots around the city, and each one often has their own slightly modified version of the Chicago style dog. However, the most critical rule regarding Chicago style dogs is this: use mustard if you will, but never, ever put ketchup on a hot dog!

Another Chicago staple is the sausage. Sausages (be they bratwursts, polish sausages, or kiolbasas) are quite popular at many pubs and restaurants, but they're best when grilled. Chicagoans love to grill, and we usually try to make the most of our brief summers with as much outdoor cooking as possible. But even Chicago's nasty winter weather won't keep Chicagoans from their grills. Come out to a Bears home game any time during the winter and you will find the parking lots filled with tailgaters grilling their brats, swilling their beer, and getting ready for some smashmouth football. Speaking of tailgating, Sox Park is beginning to develop quite the reputation for its tailgating community. No such tailgating ever occurs in parking-strapped Lake View, i.e. the neighborhood many mistakenly call "Wrigleyville."

When discussing Chicago food and its relevance to baseball, it is absolutely necessary to compare the food at the city's two baseball stadiums. Sox Park is known for its high quality and variety of foods. You can find foods of many different ethnicities within the stadium. The churros are often sited. The park sports Connie's pizza, kosher hot dogs, and amazing brats. Wrigley's food, on the other hand, is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I have a pal who works for their concession company (Aramark), who confided that Wrigley has a HUGE rat problem. They find rats among their buns, their dogs, everything. Also, Wrigley sports less than a dozen food counters, so the food lines (like those to their piss troughs and beer vendors) take several innings to maneuver. And on top of it all, their food just doesn't taste good. It must be the rat crap.

There are other Chicago food specialties, but these probably don't have the same sense of Chicago identity as the pizza, hot dogs, and sausages. Eli's cheesecake is very popular. There are dozens of local icecream parlors that were once neighborhood staples but have now become few and far between. Also, Chicagoans love to drink, and you can find a bar on almost every corner of the older neighborhoods.

That's about it. For more information about Chicago's storied food fixation, please consult your local library (or watch our local PBS show "Check Please!" with the scrumptious Alpana Singh).

That is all. Ditto...double ditto, and someone please pass the salt.

There are a couple other "Chicago staples" that mean a lot to me that should be noted. Sausages were mentioned, but there was no mention of the ever-popular Chicago favorite, the Italian Saugage. Just like other foods in the city and suburbs, there are major restaurant chains that will carry the delicacy, which is a grilled Italian sausage link served on french bread and usually topped with a marinara sauce and peppers, but the mom and pop places are the best. In the suburbs, I'll take Parky's near the corner of Harlem Avenue and Madison Street in Forest Park. In the city near where I live, gimme Windy City Hot Dogs on 63rd street. The other "staple" worth noting is something near and dear to my heart...sans my cholesterol. It's what we call the Italian beef sandwich, or "beef" when you order it at your favorite spot. If you tell the person at the counter to give you a "beef" it's understood you mean an Italian beef sandwich.

The "beef" is thinly sliced roast beef that has been marinated a jus with a blend of Italian herbs and spices. The meat is served on a French roll about 6 inches long, just like the sausage sandwiches are. The best sandwiches have tender meat, and the taste in the juices really bring out the flavor. People usually order them either "dry", meaning without extra juice, "wet" meaning there's some extra juiced spooned on the sandwich, or "dipped", meaning the whole sandwich is dipped in the meat juices before it's wrapped up and served. BTW...you can either order this sandwich with "hot" or "sweet" peppers served on top. The "hot" peppers is a spicy pepper mixture, and the "sweet" peppers are soft, green peppers. All the "dry", "wet", and "dipped" can very depending on where you go, but the basics are there for just about every mom and pop establishment in the area.

And here's the best part...in just about every place that sells beef and Italian sausage sandwiches, there's another sandwich we just call a "combo", meaning it's a combination Italian sausage link and Italian beef in one shot. Those are the kinds of things you don't want to live off of every day, but once in a while is pretty neat.

Those are my $.2 worth. Now...I'll have a beef dipped with sweet peppers, a large fry, and a large Pepsi...to go.

hsnterprize
03-09-2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Maximo
Additional things in the category of miscellaneous regarding Chicago:

Best live theater outside of New York City

Home to many great Blues clubs.

Al Capone, Bugs Moran, et.al

Some of the best museums in the country.

As a good a collection of the finest restaurants, watering holes and coffee shops as you'll find anywhere.

Second City......where many of the original Saturday Night Livers
got their start. When it comes to Chicago, there's something for EVERYBODY!!!!! It's a great town, and I'll always love being a Chicagoan. Just can't stand those doggone Cubs fans. If the Cubs and Yankees were to even meet in a World Series in my lifetime...

START SPREADIN' THE NEWS...

I'M LEAVIN' TODAY...

I WANNA BE A PART OF IT...NEW YORK, NEW YORK!!!!!

SoxFan76
03-09-2004, 02:56 PM
I can't believe it took that long to mention beef sandwiches. Carm's Beef in Westchester (or Hillside, not sure) has awesome beef sandwiches. You can buy a big bucket of beef to take home and make sandwiches, or you can buy one from the store. Good stuff. Always gotta get it dipped.

hsnterprize
03-10-2004, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
I can't believe it took that long to mention beef sandwiches. Carm's Beef in Westchester (or Hillside, not sure) has awesome beef sandwiches. You can buy a big bucket of beef to take home and make sandwiches, or you can buy one from the store. Good stuff. Always gotta get it dipped. Do you know where in Westchester Carm's is? I used to live in Broadview and went to Westchester quite a bit, so I'm familiar with the area.

phillyguy8
03-10-2004, 02:39 PM
A few more things. I can't tell you how helpful this is. I brought it up before, but there was no response, what type of phrases ("coffee and") and different dialects are Chicagoans known for. What I have in mind is a commercial with Chicagoans spouting off famous chicago lines and phrases that only other chicagoans would understand.

Also, on this station will be a roundtable discussion about local sports (I made reference to this in my post about the station) and I wanted to know which sports columnists would be best. Does the Sun Times have a better sports section? Are there any radio personalities that we should try to get on. These recommendations will get back to Comcast Sportsnet so what you watch is kind of up to you guys. Thanks again and if you have any questions let me know.

SoxFan76
03-10-2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by hsnterprize
Do you know where in Westchester Carm's is? I used to live in Broadview and went to Westchester quite a bit, so I'm familiar with the area.

1801 S. Wolf Road, Hillside

Off of Roosevelt. So it is in Hillside. I always get confused as to where Hillside and Westchester are seperated. My cousins front yard is in Hillside, and their back yard is in Westchester. It's weird. Broadview, my Grandma lives off of Balmoral, so Broadview is like right there.

RichFitztightly
03-10-2004, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by phillyguy8
A few more things. I can't tell you how helpful this is. I brought it up before, but there was no response, what type of phrases ("coffee and") and different dialects are Chicagoans known for. What I have in mind is a commercial with Chicagoans spouting off famous chicago lines and phrases that only other chicagoans would understand.


As far as dialects go, I don't know that there's a real distinguishing feature. You can watch the Super Fans from Saturday Night Live to get an exaggerated view of Chicagoans. The only overwhelming characteristic of speech I can think of is sarcasm. People in Chicago (at least the blue collar types) tend to be very sarcastic and believe a person has to be accountable for everything he says.

From my travel around the country, I've found that Chicagoans tend to call friends by their last names more so than other places. They also tend to use insults and profanity as a form of endearment. For instance, "Hey Gribowski you F------ P---- why don't you get extra sauce for that Gyro, you've been looking a little thin lately."

nlentz88
03-11-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by phillyguy8
A few more things. I can't tell you how helpful this is. I brought it up before, but there was no response, what type of phrases ("coffee and") and different dialects are Chicagoans known for. What I have in mind is a commercial with Chicagoans spouting off famous chicago lines and phrases that only other chicagoans would understand.

Also, on this station will be a roundtable discussion about local sports (I made reference to this in my post about the station) and I wanted to know which sports columnists would be best. Does the Sun Times have a better sports section? Are there any radio personalities that we should try to get on. These recommendations will get back to Comcast Sportsnet so what you watch is kind of up to you guys. Thanks again and if you have any questions let me know.

As far as dialect goes, there are a few things identifiable as Chicagoan. First off, most Chicagoans refer to Chicago as "the city." For example, "The families from the suburbs came into the city for the game." I think this is a trend in most major metropolitan areas; I know San Francisco residents use the same term.

Well, there's also the whole "soda" vs. "pop" controversy. In my opinion, Chicagoans usually use pop, but there are those that do favor soda. There are also still some old timers that say "warshing" for washing, i.e. the state, the capital, the machine. When you just say "train" in Chicago, I think most people would say you're refering to the Metra or Amtrack, whereas the elevated train is usually refered to as "the EL," or better yet actually use the "color" name of that particular El train. Some Chicagoans have a tendancy to pluralize everything, as in "hey, yous guys gotta try this." Oh, and that's another thing; Chicagoans often use non-standard conjunctions in sentences, like: gotta, hafta, wanna, gimme, lotta, canya, etc. I guess people everywhere do that, but for some reason I "kinda" associate it with Chicago. All of the above are generalizations, though. Not everyone in Chicago talks like this or like the guys on the SNL "Super fans" sketch.

As for journalists, I wish you the best of luck trying to find anyone on this website who will give a glowing recommendation for any Chicago scribe. DEFINITELY not Jay Mariotti; that guy's a total boner. I think most Sox fans will tell you the Sun Times has a better sports section (even some Cubs fans would agree), but to tell you the truth I read that rag simply because its not the Chicago Tribune (Cub-une) and I can't get the Daily Southtown on the northside. Regardless of the paper or radio show, though, the vast majority of Chicago sports writers and blab show hosts are all biased against the Sox, and that ticks off most Sox fans. Maybe some of the other fans on this site can give you a recommendation, but I can't think of a single person I'd like to see discuss the Sox in a roundtable format (other than maybe some of the Sox broadcasters).

That is all.