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View Full Version : Jack McDowell predicts Sox to win division


HawkDJ
03-07-2004, 02:51 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpa3B1NXY2BF9TAzk1ODYxNzc3BHNlYwN0 cA--?slug=jm-alearlylook&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Sure, the Sox took the most significant losses this offseason, losing Bartolo Colon and Tom Gordon, but they should have walked away with the division last season. If you would have penciled in Esteban Loaiza for 21 victories prior to last season, they would have been runaway favorites. Colon's gone, but Loaiza remains along with Mark Buehrle and Jon Garland to front the rotation. Billy Koch still closes. Magglio Ordonez, Frank Thomas and Carlos Lee add the pop, and Joe Borchard remains a superstar in the rough who could make a huge impact soon.

All in all, Chicago should have enough to win this division. But it should have been enough last year

HomeFish
03-07-2004, 02:55 PM
Jack McDowel has been very harsh and dismissive with the Sox in the past...I don't know what's gotten into him now, especially since the team has gotten worse.

batmanZoSo
03-07-2004, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by HomeFish
Jack McDowel has been very harsh and dismissive with the Sox in the past...I don't know what's gotten into him now, especially since the team has gotten worse.

I think he spent all his money and now has to live with Reinsdorf. It's a classic mismatch. I smell a sitcom!

mrwag
03-07-2004, 09:35 PM
I think this team still has enough talent. What will tip them over the edge is how well team gels with Ozzie in control, and what Frank does.

tlebar318
03-07-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by HomeFish
Jack McDowel has been very harsh and dismissive with the Sox in the past...I don't know what's gotten into him now, especially since the team has gotten worse.


Maybe I am the negative one here BUT...can you explain why you even bother to follow the Sox with your negative post here PRIOR to the season even starting? Black Jack being negative is one thing but he gets paid to bash if necessary..you on the other hand have other teams to choose from--What is you deal? Fire Guillen website? give the guy a chance will ya? In the mean time Beer me! :gulp: :gulp: Have a little faith will ya?

HomeFish
03-07-2004, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by tlebar318
Maybe I am the negative one here BUT...can you explain why you even bother to follow the Sox with your negative post here PRIOR to the season even starting? Black Jack being negative is one thing but he gets paid to bash if necessary..you on the other hand have other teams to choose from--What is you deal? Fire Guillen website? give the guy a chance will ya?

I did have the choice of any baseball team when I first started following baseball several years ago. I made a choice and I am sticking to it -- I've already become far too attached.

I have to cheer for the Sox, but that doesn't mean I have to like what they've done with the team. I'm a tragic figure.

tlebar318
03-07-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by HomeFish
I did have the choice of any baseball team when I first started following baseball several years ago. I made a choice and I am sticking to it -- I've already become far too attached.

I have to cheer for the Sox, but that doesn't mean I have to like what they've done with the team. I'm a tragic figure.




I guess I am a "tragic figure" dating back to 1965 then...I don't agree with what moves are made most of the time but at least see how April, May and June pan out before giving up already....have a Miller with me! :gulp: :gulp:

pudge
03-07-2004, 11:10 PM
Could HomeFish be the new Lip? And how could he berate all the current Sox, yet have a love affair with the "great" Bob Howry. Makes no sense.

The_Floridian
03-07-2004, 11:18 PM
Pessimism pessimism.

I don't think the Sox necessarily got worse. I think the loss of Colon has been blown waaay out of proportion, and I maintain that Guillen is the best man for this particular incarnation of the Sox...and I backed Gaston when it was still up in the air.

The Twins bullpen has been gutted and A.J. Pierzinsqkxi, the heart of their team, is gone. That may not seem like much now...but the Twins backbone the last two years has been their pen. The bullpen may not win you games down the stretch, but it can sure lose them. And the Twins will be hurting in this department.

And Kansas City...their starting pitching is the problem. They are basing their rotation around Appier for pete's sake.

Ironically, even with the loss of Colon, the Sox have the best pitching in the Central. Add in the pop in their collective bats, and you got a division winner.

VeeckAsInWreck
03-07-2004, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by pudge
Could HomeFish be the new Lip? And how could he berate all the current Sox, yet have a love affair with the "great" Bob Howry. Makes no sense.

Maybe HomeFish ran into some money problems and now has to live with Howry! It's a classic mismatch, I smell a sitcom too! (that was for you batmanZoSo) :D:

However, I like the Sox chances this year, if you don't believe, go back to the Cubs fansite you came from! :gulp:

ewokpelts
03-08-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by HomeFish
Jack McDowel has been very harsh and dismissive with the Sox in the past...I don't know what's gotten into him now, especially since the team has gotten worse.

Mebbe it was Hangar's beers at Soxfest?
Gene

batmanZoSo
03-08-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by The_Floridian
Pessimism pessimism.

I don't think the Sox necessarily got worse. I think the loss of Colon has been blown waaay out of proportion, and I maintain that Guillen is the best man for this particular incarnation of the Sox...and I backed Gaston when it was still up in the air.

The Twins bullpen has been gutted and A.J. Pierzinsqkxi, the heart of their team, is gone. That may not seem like much now...but the Twins backbone the last two years has been their pen. The bullpen may not win you games down the stretch, but it can sure lose them. And the Twins will be hurting in this department.

And Kansas City...their starting pitching is the problem. They are basing their rotation around Appier for pete's sake.

Ironically, even with the loss of Colon, the Sox have the best pitching in the Central. Add in the pop in their collective bats, and you got a division winner.

It's all a matter of whether the bats come through or not. In my view, we have just as good a chance to win the division as any other year since 2000. We didn't lose anyone important.

Gordon and his 12 saves are not worth 5 million.
Colon is not a big game pitcher and never will be. You never know what you're getting with him.
Alomar is washed up. He won't put up much better numbers than Juan Uribe.
Everett I liked, but he's not going to carry you to the Series.
Sullivan was a lame duck, didn't do much for us at all.

If the guys we have play to their potential, we'll win the division.

SoxxoS
03-08-2004, 12:50 PM
While you have to expect lower numbers from:

Loiaza

That is about it.

I am expecting greater numbers from:

Buehrle
Garland
Olivo
Crede
CLee
Ordonez
Konerko


There is going to be a dropoff in CF and 2B, but hopefully Wee and Crash can perform adaquately. I am very cautiously optimisty about those 2.

I think with the addition of Ozzie and the subtraction of the Tinkerer, we are looking good.

Chrisaway
03-08-2004, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
While you have to expect lower numbers from:

Loiaza

That is about it.

I am expecting greater numbers from:

Buehrle
Garland
Olivo
Crede
CLee
Ordonez
Konerko


There is going to be a dropoff in CF and 2B, but hopefully Wee and Crash can perform adaquately. I am very cautiously optimisty about those 2.

I think with the addition of Ozzie and the subtraction of the Tinkerer, we are looking good.

I still think Rowand is gonna be a solid player. On the other hand, I always kinda chuckled when I saw harris playing center in the 8th-9th innings. Im looking forward to an intresting summer of White Sox baseball.

HITMEN OF 77
03-08-2004, 01:07 PM
IMO good base running could decide some games and the season. Hitting and pitching are pretty good. We should win the division. Garland needs to win 15.

Lip Man 1
03-08-2004, 01:14 PM
Batman says; "If the guys we have play to their potential, we'll win the division.

A few comments.....

Isn't it sad where the White Sox, in the 3rd largest market in the country, have to be in the position where 'if' the guys play to their potential they'll win the weakest division in baseball.

and if they win the weakest division in baseball does anybody seriously think this club can even get to a World Series, let alone win it?

I know, I know...'once you get to the playoffs anything can happen.' There you go, this franchise is now reducing to 'hoping' to win with luck instead of 'expecting' to win with talent.

Sorry I just don't understand that type of thinking.

Lip

Mickster
03-08-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
and if they win the weakest division in baseball does anybody seriously think this club can even get to a World Series, let alone win it?

I know, I know...'once you get to the playoffs anything can happen.' There you go, this franchise is now reducing to 'hoping' to win with luck instead of 'expecting' to win with talent.



Two words:

Florida Marlins

Two More:

Anaheim Angels

Lip,

I hear where you are coming from. Realize that "luck" does have something to do with it. In your scenario, the Marlins should give their WS rings to the Yanks b/c they had no business winning.

Personally, after the break last year, I thought that the Sox were a LOCK. They were solid 1-9, had 3 good pitchers, 1 so-so pitcher and 1 ??? pitcher. Certainly enough to get into the playoffs, and maybe even win a series. Luck just wasn't on their side....

JC456
03-08-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Two words:

Florida Marlins

Two More:

Anaheim Angels

Lip,

I hear where you are coming from. Realize that "luck" does have something to do with it. In your scenario, the Marlins should give their WS rings to the Yanks b/c they had no business winning.

Personally, after the break last year, I thought that the Sox were a LOCK. They were solid 1-9, had 3 good pitchers, 1 so-so pitcher and 1 ??? pitcher. Certainly enough to get into the playoffs, and maybe even win a series. Luck just wasn't on their side....

Luck has everything to do with it. When you play the other teams during their streaks makes or breaks a year. Look at the Flubs last year at the end of the season. They played Pittsburgh and Millwaukee while Houston played San Fran. Pittsburgh had nobody left on their team, they left and played on the Flubs. Houston didn't stand a chance in he11.

It's always luck to win your division on a 162 game schedule. Players not getting hurt and all of the other obstacles a team must endure.

And, the way any team wins is playing to their potential. I'd like to know of a team that won by just playing bad baseball.

Brian26
03-08-2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Isn't it sad where the White Sox, in the 3rd largest market in the country, have to be in the position where 'if' the guys play to their potential they'll win the weakest division in baseball.
.....
.I know, I know...'once you get to the playoffs anything can happen.' There you go, this franchise is now reducing to 'hoping' to win with luck instead of 'expecting' to win with talent..

Lip,

Even the Yankees have to play up to their potential if they want to win it. It's entirely possible their starting pitching could absolutely implode this year, Giambi may only have 25 homers instead of 45, Lofton may be over the hill, Sheff might be on the DL by Memorial Day, and their second base hole is about as big as ours right now. That's why you play the games. At least we know, with the Sox, that the potential is there to begin with. That's what makes the beginning of the season so much fun this year. It's not like '99 when we knew we were rebuilding going into the start of the season.

Also- The Sox lost in the '83 playoffs when they had won 99 games and the best record in baseball. They had the best record in the AL in '00 and lost in the first round. They were the 2nd best team in baseball in '93 before losing to the Blue Jays in the first round. Don't you think it's about time we catch a few breaks when we make it to the playoffs?

Don't be so negative. It's not Reinsdorf's fault all the time.

doublem23
03-08-2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Brian26

Don't be so negative. It's not Reinsdorf's fault all the time.

Blasphemy!

Jerko
03-08-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Lip,

Even the Yankees have to play up to their potential if they want to win it. It's entirely possible their starting pitching could absolutely implode this year, Giambi may only have 25 homers instead of 45, Lofton may be over the hill, Sheff might be on the DL by Memorial Day, and their second base hole is about as big as ours right now. That's why you play the games. At least we know, with the Sox, that the potential is there to begin with. That's what makes the beginning of the season so much fun this year. It's not like '99 when we knew we were rebuilding going into the start of the season.

Also- The Sox lost in the '83 playoffs when they had won 99 games and the best record in baseball. They had the best record in the AL in '00 and lost in the first round. They were the 2nd best team in baseball in '93 before losing to the Blue Jays in the first round. Don't you think it's about time we catch a few breaks when we make it to the playoffs?

Don't be so negative. It's not Reinsdorf's fault all the time.


Sheff hurt already

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/7154593[/URL]

Dan H
03-08-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Two words:

Florida Marlins

Two More:

Anaheim Angels

Lip,

I hear where you are coming from. Realize that "luck" does have something to do with it. In your scenario, the Marlins should give their WS rings to the Yanks b/c they had no business winning.

Personally, after the break last year, I thought that the Sox were a LOCK. They were solid 1-9, had 3 good pitchers, 1 so-so pitcher and 1 ??? pitcher. Certainly enough to get into the playoffs, and maybe even win a series. Luck just wasn't on their side....

I heard the Anaheim Angels analogy last year. It did nothing for the White Sox when they lost five straight to the Twins, and that also had nothing to do with bad luck. It was just bad baseball.

I would like to be real optimistic about 2004, but I will have to see some of the question marks come through first. Otherwise, I am grateful for the team being in the AL Central.

Brian26
03-08-2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
Sheff hurt already

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/7154593[/URL]

LOL! I predicted it!

ewokpelts
03-08-2004, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
LOL! I predicted it!
Brian,
Can u predict the cubs collapse?Please?
Gene

Hangar18
03-08-2004, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
Mebbe it was Hangar's beers at Soxfest?
Gene

Heh heh. You know, its funny to read something Baseball
related by Jack McDowell, because the last few times weve
talked, it was always about Music and Stuff, no baseball
at all. I purposely not bring it up when I see/talk to the guy.
Was cool to drink a beer with him and chat for a bit at the bar....

ewokpelts
03-08-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Heh heh. You know, its funny to read something Baseball
related by Jack McDowell, because the last few times weve
talked, it was always about Music and Stuff, no baseball
at all. I purposely not bring it up when I see/talk to the guy.
Was cool to drink a beer with him and chat for a bit at the bar....

Yeah, When we've talked through email it's 99% stickfigure stuff. I did one time throw in a p.s. @#$E@ Jerry, but I feel a little weird buggin him about baseball stuff.
Gene

p.s. Picked up his new record. Pretty good.

Lip Man 1
03-08-2004, 09:56 PM
Brian:

The difference is (and luck has nothing to do with this) the Yanks will go out and pick up whatever they need, whenever they need it and their overall depth blows the Sox away. Shef is hurt...big deal, Bernie Williams moves over and takes his place and so forth.

If the Sox get an injury or two you've got Neal Cotts, Juan Uribe and Jeremy Reed. Big , big difference.

Teams like the Yankees, Braves, Cardinals, Giants, Mariners and so forth have had consistently good records and put themselves into the playoffs numerous times because they had a payroll large enough to overcome bad 'luck.'

The margin for error with the Sox is paper thin even in the weakest division in baseball. That is not cause for optimism.

Lip

mike squires
03-08-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
Yeah, When we've talked through email it's 99% stickfigure stuff. I did one time throw in a p.s. @#$E@ Jerry, but I feel a little weird buggin him about baseball stuff.
Gene

p.s. Picked up his new record. Pretty good.

I spoke to Jack about music, more specifically about Wilco at the Whitesox/Cubs reunion. I've communicated by e-mail a few times as well which usually involves music/guitars...he usually ignores my baseball questions or memories...