PDA

View Full Version : one thing thats always bothered me


oldcomiskey
03-07-2004, 10:03 AM
Ozzie Smith is not only in the HOF but made the all century team.. Oh please---Guillen was every bit as good defensively than Smith and so were people like Belanger--who I agree couldnt hit water---but the point is Ozzie is there for his defense--and according to some hes the best SS some people have ever seen---apparently they never saw Apericio

ode to veeck
03-07-2004, 10:10 AM
Totally agree, I thought our Ozzie was actually better defensively, & the best (def SS) I had seen in my lifetime.

soxrme
03-07-2004, 10:42 AM
Luis Aparicio was the best defensive shortstop ever. I wish some of you younger guys could have seen him play, nobody could go to the hole better and he did it on grass infields and not a carpet. Don't get me wrong on Ozzie Smith, he was #2, Guillen could not hold his jock.

idseer
03-07-2004, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by soxrme
Luis Aparicio was the best defensive shortstop ever. I wish some of you younger guys could have seen him play, nobody could go to the hole better and he did it on grass infields and not a carpet. Don't get me wrong on Ozzie Smith, he was #2, Guillen could not hold his jock.

nor would he want to.

santo=dorf
03-07-2004, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
Ozzie Smith is not only in the HOF but made the all century team.. Oh please---Guillen was every bit as good defensively than Smith and so were people like Belanger--who I agree couldnt hit water---but the point is Ozzie is there for his defense--and according to some hes the best SS some people have ever seen---apparently they never saw Apericio

But could Guillen do a Back flip?

ode to veeck
03-07-2004, 11:57 AM
Yep, Luis was tops, winning GG so many times '58-'70 I think they just started alternating in late 60s to get someone else in (kinda like Michael Jordan and the MVP trophy). Luis also lead the AL in SB uniterrupted for a rediculously long stretch, putting as much Go-Go in the Sox as Minnie

I still think Guillen in his prime was every bit as good as Ozzie Smith defensively

Paulwny
03-07-2004, 12:42 PM
Numbers don't always give the full story. I remember reading an article, way back when, regarding some of Aparicio's errors at Comiskey. These aren't the exact words. After given an error on a play many sport's writers were surprised and questiond the official scorer. "Nobody makes that play, why does he deserve an error?" Scorer's reply, "I've seen him make that play a few times, he's the best and I place higher standards on him."
Aparicio and Visquel are the best I've ever seen in the AL.

batmanZoSo
03-07-2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Numbers don't always give the full story. I remember reading an article, way back when, regarding some of Aparicio's errors at Comiskey. These aren't the exact words. After given an error on a play many sport's writers were surprised and questiond the official scorer. "Nobody makes that play, why does he deserve an error?" Scorer's reply, "I've seen him make that play a few times, he's the best and I place higher standards on him."
Aparicio and Visquel are the best I've ever seen in the AL.

Vizquel is easily the best I've ever seen. Of course I'm 21.

Ozzie Smith was more flash than substance. That's why he's praised so highly. He made a lot of plays look harder than they really were. He was great though, don't get me wrong.

I never saw Aparicio play, but I'll take everyone's word for it :)

I think the gravest injustice is how Smith made the hall first ballot almost unanimously and Alan Trammell got half the votes. I don't know about you guys but I'd take Trammell over Smith any day of the week. Not only did Trammell have about the same fielding percentage (take that for what it's worth), but he hit more home runs in 84 than Ozzie did in his whole career.

WinningUgly!
03-07-2004, 03:21 PM
I won't say that Ozzie Smith wasn't one of the greatest defensive shortstops ever, but he benefited a ton from being on national TV during the Cardinals' World Series years. A few highlight plays mixed in with a back flip here & there...

batmanZoSo
03-07-2004, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I won't say that Ozzie Smith wasn't one of the greatest defensive shortstops ever, but he benefited a ton from being on national TV during the Cardinals' World Series years. A few highlight plays mixed in with a back flip here & there...

That's true. If Smith played for the Sox, this thread would be about why he hasn't been inducted yet.

By the way, what is it about writers? It seems they only watch the playoffs.

If you ask me, World Series rings should have almost nothing to do with your potential to make the Hall. You know that a few-- even if it's only one or two--won't vote Bonds in first ballot because he never won a ring. It's retarded. You're one out of 25.

PaulDrake
03-07-2004, 05:47 PM
Ozzie Smith was great, hype , back flips and all. Of course I'm partial to Aparacio being so "old" I saw him play a time or two. One poster mentioned him going into the hole which is of course true. I also remember him being good at knocking down the hard smash up the middle, recovering quickly and throwing the runner out. Aparicio and Fox worked so well together. Not quite the flash of Vizquel and Alomar but very effective nonetheless. Ozzie Guillen was a solid defensive performer. Aparicio was often worth the price of admission all by himself.

hose
03-07-2004, 05:55 PM
Ozzie Smith was one of the greatest defensive shortstops to play in the NL and deserves to be in the HoF.

I would have taken Smith over Guillen but not over Little Louie.

oldcomiskey
03-07-2004, 07:25 PM
no he wasnt-----no way does he deserve HOF stsus let alone All century

WinningUgly!
03-07-2004, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
no he wasnt-----no way does he deserve HOF stsus let alone All century

I have no problem with him being in the HOF, he deserved it. It is nice to see someone get the ultimate credit for doing the little things, like playing defense, stealing bases & moving runners over. There has always been much more to the game of baseball than power numbers. The thing that bothered me the most about Ozzie Smith was how he kept Barry Larkin from being the NL starting SS for so many years. Larkin in his early prime was Smith's equal defensively (minus a spectacular play or two) & 10 times the player offensively.

ChiWhiteSox1337
03-07-2004, 07:46 PM
I can't believe you all forgot the greatest defensive ss of our time, Royce The Choice Clayton!
:thechoice

WinningUgly!
03-07-2004, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by ChiWhiteSox1337
I can't believe you all forgot the greatest defensive ss of our time, Royce The Choice Clayton!
:thechoice

The same Royce Clayton that ran Ozzie Smith right out of St. Louis! :)