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View Full Version : Person released,Corwin Malone Outrighted.


Grobber33
03-05-2004, 12:15 PM
Robert Person,who wont pitch this season due to surgery has been released by the Sox,and Corwin Malone outrighted.
For more: www.grobber.com

Brian26
03-05-2004, 12:20 PM
There goes our Loaiza 2k4.

Mickster
03-05-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
There goes our Loaiza 2k4.

I got a funny feeling that Schoeneweis will be the big surprise this year.

Quote me on it. :)

jackbrohamer
03-05-2004, 12:25 PM
Sheesh, seems like only yesterday Malone was a "can't miss" prospect

rmusacch
03-05-2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by jackbrohamer
Sheesh, seems like only yesterday Malone was a "can't miss" prospect

Malone is scheduled to undergo Tommy John surgery.

Grobber33
03-05-2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch
Malone is scheduled to undergo Tommy John surgery.

He had it done Tuesday by Dr.James Andrews in Bama.

Brian26
03-05-2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
He had it done Tuesday by Dr.James Andrews in Bama.

Andrews is never hurting for work, is he? The guy's name is in the news more that the President.

Randar68
03-05-2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Andrews is never hurting for work, is he? The guy's name is in the news more that the President.

When your career depends on it, you go to the best.

DrCrawdad
03-05-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by jackbrohamer
Sheesh, seems like only yesterday Malone was a "can't miss" prospect

Well many are the "can't miss" pitching prospects who've seen their career derailed by injuries. IMHO Malone getting cut is not proof of the a deficiency in the Sox, not at all. Malone has just had repeated injuries, injuries that have seriously hurt his chances of making it to MLB with the Sox, or perhaps anyone else. The Sox have just cut thier losses.

For the record, the Cubbies have seen quite a few of their "can't miss" prospects have go the same road as Malone. Chiasson, "closer of the future," Bean-Ball Ben Christianson, a few lefties I can't remember, are a few recent examples of the can't miss prospects who've dissappeared.

sas1974
03-05-2004, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
I got a funny feeling that Schoeneweis will be the big surprise this year.

Quote me on it. :)

Ok, we're going to have to make you define "surprise" on this one.

Is it: Surprise as in "WOW, I am surprised that anyone could have an ERA that high?" Or "that was a surprising number of HR he's given up this year."

Or: Surprise as in "I am surprised we didn't give this guy the #3 spot from the get go?"

sas1974
03-05-2004, 01:06 PM
"Can't misses" that miss are a dime a dozen.

Lip Man 1
03-05-2004, 01:11 PM
Which is why it's foolish to attempt to build a quality pitching staff around them. You simply can't get enough succeeding at the same time.

Add to that the White Sox insistence on not spending big money for quality free agent pitchers (preferring instead to trade players for them creating more holes in the team...) and you have a serioes problem.

Best example : 83-79 season average record since the White Flag deal.

Yea that'll get us to a World Series...

Lip

Randar68
03-05-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Well many are the "can't miss" pitching prospects who've seen their career derailed by injuries. IMHO Malone getting cut is not proof of the a deficiency in the Sox, not at all. Malone has just had repeated injuries, injuries that have seriously hurt his chances of making it to MLB with the Sox, or perhaps anyone else. The Sox have just cut thier losses.

For the record, the Cubbies have seen quite a few of their "can't miss" prospects have go the same road as Malone. Chiasson, "closer of the future," Bean-Ball Ben Christianson, a few lefties I can't remember, are a few recent examples of the can't miss prospects who've dissappeared.

FOR THE RECORD...

Malone was not cut, he was outrighted to Charlotte. He will still be in the organization, but he won't be on the 40-man roster.

Randar68
03-05-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Which is why it's foolish to attempt to build a quality pitching staff around them. You simply can't get enough succeeding at the same time.

Add to that the White Sox insistence on not spending big money for quality free agent pitchers (preferring instead to trade players for them creating more holes in the team...) and you have a serioes problem.

Best example : 83-79 season average record since the White Flag deal.

Yea that'll get us to a World Series...

Lip

I don't know, Lip. The Sox led the majors in victories one seasons, and had Jerry not pissed away last season's final 2 months, that team had as good or better a chance than anyone in the AL...

Mickster
03-05-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
Ok, we're going to have to make you define "surprise" on this one.

Is it: Surprise as in "WOW, I am surprised that anyone could have an ERA that high?" Or "that was a surprising number of HR he's given up this year."

Or: Surprise as in "I am surprised we didn't give this guy the #3 spot from the get go?"

LOL! :D:

I think it will be the latter.

sas1974
03-05-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
LOL! :D:

I think it will be the latter.

Or how about this one?

Holy S**t! I am surprised that one didn't end up on the Dan Ryan! :smile:

Just kiddin'! Ya never know I suppose. I for one would be thrilled if he panned out and we were all worried for nothing. Kenny claims he "sees something" in him to hand him this #4 spot. That "something" may be the cob webs in Uncle Jerry's wallet that wouldn't allow him to get a FA arm, but it's something none the less.

Grobber33
03-05-2004, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I don't know, Lip. The Sox led the majors in victories one seasons, and had Jerry not pissed away last season's final 2 months, that team had as good or better a chance than anyone in the AL...

If you're talking about 1994,the Yankees and Expos had more wins than the Sox and the Indians had just 1 less win when the Strike happened,so nothing was a cinch.
If you are talking about 2000,the Sox had the best record in the AL,but the Giants(who lost to the Mets of course)had the best mark in MLB.
It's always great to think what might have been,hell why not! But the Sox in 94 were just one slump away from missing the Playoffs totaly. KC was just 4 games back in the Central in 3rd place and Balt was right there in the wildcard race.
Jerry may have blown a World Series,and he also may have blown nothing at all but a huge disapointment like the 2000 Seattle Series(ALDS).

Randar68
03-05-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
If you're talking about 1994,the Yankees and Expos had more wins than the Sox and the Indians had just 1 less win when the Strike happened,so nothing was a cinch.
If you are talking about 2000,the Sox had the best record in the AL,but the Giants(who lost to the Mets of course)had the best mark in MLB.
It's always great to think what might have been,hell why not! But the Sox in 94 were just one slump away from missing the Playoffs totaly. KC was just 4 games back in the Central in 3rd place and Balt was right there in the wildcard race.
Jerry may have blown a World Series,and he also may have blown nothing at all but a huge disapointment like the 2000 Seattle Series(ALDS).

I was not talking about 1994, and for the record, I'm not a big fan of all the "Front runners to be W.S. Champs" talk about that 1994.

I was referring to the post-white-***-trade-era and the 2000 season and the team that was here at the end of last year.

I didn't see any team in the AL last year that would have been more dangerous than the Sox had they made the playoffs, and Jerry made sure that didn't happen (although a couple untimely slumps by key players didn't help).

The top 3 pitchers with the lineup and experience in the playoffs... Everett was clutch...

DrCrawdad
03-05-2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
...It's always great to think what might have been, hell why not!...

Last year the Cubbie choked in the NLCS. Now for ever more we'll hear about "what might have been" from Cubbie koolaid drinkers if not for Bartman.

Brian26
03-05-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I was not talking about 1994, and for the record, I'm not a big fan of all the "Front runners to be W.S. Champs" talk about that 1994.

I was referring to the post-white-***-trade-era and the 2000 season and the team that was here at the end of last year.

I didn't see any team in the AL last year that would have been more dangerous than the Sox had they made the playoffs, and Jerry made sure that didn't happen (although a couple untimely slumps by key players didn't help).

The top 3 pitchers with the lineup and experience in the playoffs... Everett was clutch...

I told this to Les on his Saturday morning show with Tommy last summer. He hung up on me and told me to keep drinking the White Sox kool-aid.

DrCrawdad
03-05-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
FOR THE RECORD...

Malone was not cut, he was outrighted to Charlotte. He will still be in the organization, but he won't be on the 40-man roster.

Thanks for the correction.

Rex Hudler
03-05-2004, 01:58 PM
I am surprised that you can outright a player off the 40-man roster while he is injured. I would think the players union would have a beef there.

MisterB
03-05-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
I am surprised that you can outright a player off the 40-man roster while he is injured. I would think the players union would have a beef there.

The MLBPA only deals with players with major league contracts. Malone was on the 40-man roster, but still on a minor league contract. (You only need a ML contract once you're on the active ML roster)

Hangar18
03-05-2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Which is why it's foolish to attempt to build a quality pitching staff around them ("prospects"). You simply can't get enough succeeding at the same time.

Add to that the White Sox insistence on not spending big money for quality free agent pitchers (preferring instead to trade players for them creating more holes in the team...) and you have a serioes problem.

Best example : 83-79 season average record since the White Flag deal.

Yea that'll get us to a World Series...

Lip

This is an Excellent Post. One would think the White Sox wouldve Learned already thru the years, that this PHILOSOPHY SIMPLY DOESNT WORK.
** Would you rather take the 2% chance that ALL your Prospects and Untried Players will have Career Years leading you to the World Series?
**Or take the 8% chance and STAND PAT and hope everyone you have GETS BETTER?
**Or would you spend the MONEY $$$ and take the 90% chance
that by filling your holes with Proven Players, you've got the chance to make the playoffs. Once you get to the playoffs,
anything can happen ...........

Using the SOX Previous Business Philosophy, They Still HAVNT been to the WOrld series since 1959. I would think they would say to themselves .......Hmmmmm that didnt work either.

Daver
03-05-2004, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
I am surprised that you can outright a player off the 40-man roster while he is injured. I would think the players union would have a beef there.

He has no MLB service time,the MLBPA has no voice in the matter.

Rex Hudler
03-05-2004, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by Daver
He has no MLB service time,the MLBPA has no voice in the matter.

Being on the 40-man roster is indeed a Major League contract and is governed by the MLPBA collective bargaining agreement.

There is a rule specifically covering the sitation in the CBA, however. It seems that if the injury occurred within 15 days of the beginning of the season, they would not have been able to do it, without paying him his $50,000 salary or guaranteeing him a Minor League contract the following year with provisions guaranteeing him a certain amount of money.

Here is the part that covers it.

(2) Notwithstanding Section C(1) above, a Player who is injured
and not able to play may be assigned to a Minor League club:

(b) During the period immediately following the close of the
championship season and before the 15 th day prior to
the start of the next championship season, if:

(iii) the Player had no Major League service the prior
championship season; and
(iv) the Player was not selected by the assignor Major
League Club in the immediately preceding Rule 5 Draft.

Daver
03-06-2004, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Being on the 40-man roster is indeed a Major League contract and is governed by the MLPBA collective bargaining agreement.

There is a rule specifically covering the sitation in the CBA, however. It seems that if the injury occurred within 15 days of the beginning of the season, they would not have been able to do it, without paying him his $50,000 salary or guaranteeing him a Minor League contract the following year with provisions guaranteeing him a certain amount of money.

Here is the part that covers it.

(2) Notwithstanding Section C(1) above, a Player who is injured
and not able to play may be assigned to a Minor League club:

(b) During the period immediately following the close of the
championship season and before the 15 th day prior to
the start of the next championship season, if:

(iii) the Player had no Major League service the prior
championship season; and
(iv) the Player was not selected by the assignor Major
League Club in the immediately preceding Rule 5 Draft.


How does that differ from what I said?

Rex Hudler
03-06-2004, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Daver
How does that differ from what I said?

You said the MLBPA has no voice in the matter.... if the provision is in the collective bargaining agreement they ratified, it absolutely means they have a voice. They created the provision that allowed it.

Sure sounds different to me.

Daver
03-06-2004, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
You said the MLBPA has no voice in the matter.... if the provision is in the collective bargaining agreement they ratified, it absolutely means they have a voice. They created the provision that allowed it.

Sure sounds different to me.

If he has no MLB service time,the team has complete control,and there is nothing the MLBPA can say about it,you posted the proof yourself.

Rex Hudler
03-06-2004, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by Daver
If he has no MLB service time,the team has complete control,and there is nothing the MLBPA can say about it,you posted the proof yourself.

They have no say because they negotiated that provision. To me, that means they had a say. They had a say if the injury happened within 15 days of the season.

His contract was very much governed by the MLBPA bargaining agreeement. So to suggest they have no say is walking a fine line.

But if you knew the provisions and simply chose not to explain why, rather than correct MisterB, and chose not to share the "15-days prior to the season" provision, then I am wrong Daver and you are right. My apologies for suggesting you may have been wrong. I guess I just need to learn to understand your posts better.

Daver
03-06-2004, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
They have no say because they negotiated that provision. To me, that means they had a say. They had a say if the injury happened within 15 days of the season.

His contract was very much governed by the MLBPA bargaining agreeement. So to suggest they have no say is walking a fine line.

But if you knew the provisions and simply chose not to explain why, rather than correct MisterB, and chose not to share the "15-days prior to the season" provision, then I am wrong Daver and you are right. My apologies for suggesting you may have been wrong. I guess I just need to learn to understand your posts better.

I like to think I have a good understanding of the CBA,as well as how the business of baseball works,your opinion on that may differ.



But then again,what the hell do I know? ©

Rex Hudler
03-06-2004, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by Daver
[B]I like to think I have a good understanding of the CBA,as well as how the business of baseball works,your opinion on that may differ.


How would I know..... you obviously chose not to share that knowledge with us.

Daver
03-06-2004, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
How would I know..... you obviously chose not to share that knowledge with us.

I guess I have wasted 4 years worth of posting here then.

I could have used that time more productively.

Rex Hudler
03-06-2004, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by Daver
I guess I have wasted 4 years worth of posting here then.

I could have used that time more productively.

Tell you what, email me all four years worth of posts and I'll get right on reading them all. Maybe you are right, but then again, it wasn't but a few days ago you were wrong on something, so forgive me if I am so naive to think that you might be again.

IronFisk
03-06-2004, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
How would I know..... you obviously chose not to share that knowledge with us.

Alright boys, lets cool off. Keep your negative energy for the season...I'm thinking you're going to need quite a bit of it.

gosox41
03-06-2004, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Mickster
I got a funny feeling that Schoeneweis will be the big surprise this year.

Quote me on it. :)

I will.

I have a feeling that Sox fans will be calling for Scott to be booted out of the rotation by May 15. I don't have much faith in him.

I think, if given a shot, the big surprise pitcher this year for the Sox will be Rauch.

Bob