PDA

View Full Version : the better of the two


row18
03-04-2004, 09:39 PM
I was sitting having a conversations with a friend about the SOX and flubs, and we came to this conclusion, about the everyday position players:

LF- Lee vs Alou= Maggs (silly us for even thinking such bul.......)
CF- Rowand vs Patterson = Even (both have upside)
RF- Maggs vs Sosa =Maggs (I'm a SOX fan )
3B- Crede vs Ramirez= Crede (He's going to be a monster, Robin who?)
SS- Valentin vs Gonzalez= Valentin (plus for the left he gives us some power)
2B-Harris vs Grudzielanek =Even (But I"m going to bet the house on Willie! so WILLIE IT IS!
1B Frank vs Lee = Frank (come on get real, and we said Frank for the coversation sake.)
C- Alamar vs Barrett = Sandy baby!

So how can they say the Cubs have a shot, and the Sox should stay in Arizona? Pitching? Loiaza, Buehlre, Garland, and Scotty can and hold their own.

So tell me do I have a piont, or am I totally biased

row18
03-04-2004, 09:40 PM
Sorry that's Lee vs Alou= Lee wins

doublem23
03-04-2004, 10:43 PM
You're rather biased. Harris equal to Grudzielanek? Mark may not be heading to Cooperstown, but he's at least a proven Major Leaguer, while Harris has a career BA in the low .200s. Lee or Thomas at first? As much as I love the Big Hurt, Lee is no slouch with the bat and is coming off a Gold Glove year. Crede and Ramirez is also a push, IMO. Ramirez has the edge offensively, but Crede is the sounder defenseman of the two. I would say Olivo as our catcher, and that's a push, at best, too. I'd take Barrett over Alomar, though. Patterson and Rowand even? Are you ****ing kidding me? Their pitching staff is light year's ahead of ours, so let's not even pretend we can match the Scrubbies arm for arm.

C'mon, I hate the Cubs as much as anyone else, but they do have a better team than we do. I don't think they're as good as everyone says, I don't think they're going to make the play-offs, but I would have to take the Cubs straight up over the Sox right now.

Not that there is much stock in matching teams player for player, but here is how I would break us and them down...

LF - Lee vs. Alou - EVEN - God forbid Maggs or Frank go down for a significant amount of time because Carlos' numbers will plummet, too.
CF - Rowand vs. Patterson - PATTERSON - No question.
RF - Magglio vs. Sosa - MAGGLIO - Especially if Sammy lays off the juice.
3B - Crede vs. Ramirez - EVEN - See above
SS - Valentin vs. Gonzalez - EVEN - Pretty even, I think, but I'd probably rather have Gonzalez.
2B - Harris vs. Grudzielanek - GRUDZIELANEK - Harris has more potential, but he has to hit Major League pitching before I am sold.
1B - Konerko/Thomas vs. Lee - LEE/EVEN - I'd take Lee over Konerko both offensively and defensively, but it is even with him and Frank
C - Olivo vs. Barrett - OLIVO - Better upside all around, plus insane arm.
Bench - CUBS - They've got guys on their bench that would start for us.
SP 1 - Buehrle vs. Prior - PRIOR - He's a punk-ass bitch, but so solid.
SP 2 - Loaiza vs. Wood - EVEN - Loaiza is a question mark because he may never repeat '03, Wood because his arm is going to fall off eventually.
SP 3 - Garland vs. Maddux - TOSS-UP - This could go any direction, really. Right now, I'd give it to Maddux, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Garland had a better year. I also wouldn't be surprised if he had another 4.40 ERA, 12-12 year.
SP 4 - Schoenweis? vs. Zambrano - ZAMBRANO - He's better even if he lands on the DL.
SP 5 - Who knows? vs. Clement - CLEMENT - Nasty ****ing slider.
Bullpen - PUSH - Achille's Heel for the Cubs last year, the Sox could be real solid or real bad.
Closer - Who knows vs. Borowski - PUSH - I have no friggin' idea. Could go either way, probably will swing to Borowski.

gosox3072
03-04-2004, 10:46 PM
Id take patterson over rowand in a second. Also i think id rather have gonzalaz instead of valentin.

Northside fan
03-04-2004, 11:51 PM
[QUOTE][Originally posted by row18

LF- Lee vs Alou= Maggs (silly us for even thinking such bul.......)
CF- Rowand vs Patterson = Even (both have upside)
RF- Maggs vs Sosa =Maggs (I'm a SOX fan )
3B- Crede vs Ramirez= Crede (He's going to be a monster, Robin who?)
SS- Valentin vs Gonzalez= Valentin (plus for the left he gives us some power)
2B-Harris vs Grudzielanek =Even (But I"m going to bet the house on Willie! so WILLIE IT IS!
1B Frank vs Lee = Frank (come on get real, and we said Frank for the coversation sake.)
C- Alamar vs Barrett = Sandy baby!
[QUOTE]

That is beyond biased. Seriously, take a deep breath and relax. Rowand over Patterson? C'mon now. Thomas over Lee? Offense=even or slight edge to Frank. Defense=hands down Lee. Harris may run like Hayes but he hits like s###. This goes to Grudz. Lee has a edge over Alou, I'll give you that one. Maggs and Sosa are even. Crede and Ramirez is close but Ramirez is a superior offensive player, while Crede wins on defense. Edge Ramirez. Valentin and Gonzalez are a wash. I'll give you the catcher spot. Starting 5 goes to the Cubs. Bullpen I would give a slight edge to the Cubs. Bench to the Cubs as well.

VeeckAsInWreck
03-05-2004, 12:07 AM
I hope I'm wrong this season, but Willie is not better than Grudzialenaksha (however the hell you spell his last name)
Either way, I see Todd Walker winning the 2B job, and he is way better than WeeWillie.

Aaron Boone crippled is better offensively than Harris!

Please prove me wrong Willie!!!!!!!

depy48
03-05-2004, 12:13 AM
lee/alou=lee
maggs/sosa=maggs
rowand/patterson=patterson
crede/ramirez=crede
valentin/agonz=valentin
harris/gruddy or walker=gruddy or walker
thomas/lee=even
olivo/barret=olivo

as tony kornheiser would say
"there it is, theres the list. I win!"

surfdudes
03-05-2004, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan




That is beyond biased. Seriously, take a deep breath and relax. Rowand over Patterson? C'mon now. Thomas over Lee? Offense=even or slight edge to Frank. Defense=hands down Lee. Harris may run like Hayes but he hits like s###. This goes to Grudz. Lee has a edge over Alou, I'll give you that one. Maggs and Sosa are even. Crede and Ramirez is close but Ramirez is a superior offensive player, while Crede wins on defense. Edge Ramirez. Valentin and Gonzalez are a wash. I'll give you the catcher spot. Starting 5 goes to the Cubs. Bullpen I would give a slight edge to the Cubs. Bench to the Cubs as well. [/B]

Wait, let me get this straight..... Your attempting to say that Derek Lee is equal to Frank Thomas on offense? On what planet?Put the glue bottle down for a second and actually think about what you just said.......

Realist
03-05-2004, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
You're rather biased. Harris equal to Grudzielanek? Mark may not be heading to Cooperstown, but he's at least a proven Major Leaguer, while Harris has a career BA in the low .200s. Lee or Thomas at first? As much as I love the Big Hurt, Lee is no slouch with the bat and is coming off a Gold Glove year. Crede and Ramirez is also a push, IMO. Ramirez has the edge offensively, but Crede is the sounder defenseman of the two. I would say Olivo as our catcher, and that's a push, at best, too. I'd take Barrett over Alomar, though. Patterson and Rowand even? Are you ****ing kidding me? Their pitching staff is light year's ahead of ours, so let's not even pretend we can match the Scrubbies arm for arm.

C'mon, I hate the Cubs as much as anyone else, but they do have a better team than we do. I don't think they're as good as everyone says, I don't think they're going to make the play-offs, but I would have to take the Cubs straight up over the Sox right now.

Not that there is much stock in matching teams player for player, but here is how I would break us and them down...

LF - Lee vs. Alou - EVEN - God forbid Maggs or Frank go down for a significant amount of time because Carlos' numbers will plummet, too.
CF - Rowand vs. Patterson - PATTERSON - No question.
RF - Magglio vs. Sosa - MAGGLIO - Especially if Sammy lays off the juice.
3B - Crede vs. Ramirez - EVEN - See above
SS - Valentin vs. Gonzalez - EVEN - Pretty even, I think, but I'd probably rather have Gonzalez.
2B - Harris vs. Grudzielanek - GRUDZIELANEK - Harris has more potential, but he has to hit Major League pitching before I am sold.
1B - Konerko/Thomas vs. Lee - LEE/EVEN - I'd take Lee over Konerko both offensively and defensively, but it is even with him and Frank
C - Olivo vs. Barrett - OLIVO - Better upside all around, plus insane arm.
Bench - CUBS - They've got guys on their bench that would start for us.
SP 1 - Buehrle vs. Prior - PRIOR - He's a punk-ass bitch, but so solid.
SP 2 - Loaiza vs. Wood - EVEN - Loaiza is a question mark because he may never repeat '03, Wood because his arm is going to fall off eventually.
SP 3 - Garland vs. Maddux - TOSS-UP - This could go any direction, really. Right now, I'd give it to Maddux, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Garland had a better year. I also wouldn't be surprised if he had another 4.40 ERA, 12-12 year.
SP 4 - Schoenweis? vs. Zambrano - ZAMBRANO - He's better even if he lands on the DL.
SP 5 - Who knows? vs. Clement - CLEMENT - Nasty ****ing slider.
Bullpen - PUSH - Achille's Heel for the Cubs last year, the Sox could be real solid or real bad.
Closer - Who knows vs. Borowski - PUSH - I have no friggin' idea. Could go either way, probably will swing to Borowski.

That's a very sober and impressive analysis. I believe we've got 321 games coming up soon that will determine how correct it is. I dunno about you, but I can't wait. :smile:

SSN721
03-05-2004, 07:52 AM
I think both Rowand and Harris have not really had a full year to play their respective positions so I will not hold judgment on them yet. Although right at the moment I do agree that both Patterson and Grudz are better in those positions. Gonzales is pretty good and I would have to say unless Valentin gets his average up you would have to take Gonzales right now. The one I disagree with is people taking Ramirez over Crede. I think Crede is superior defensively, and offensively. Last year he had a virus in the middle of the season that affected him for a month and a half, once it was figured out and he got over it I believe from August on he hit over .350, I expect big things from him this year. Starting staff I would have to give to the Cubs hands down, not even a question about that. Bullpens I would say at worst even with the possibility for the Sox to be a very good pen if they live up to potential. Because of the superior starting staff alone I would have to say that the Cubs have the better team right now. :(:

SSN721
03-05-2004, 07:54 AM
Forgot to say that I think the Derek Lee over Frank Thomas is preposterous, I can sacrifice some defense for Thomas' much superior bat. He plays well enough in the field that you can live with it for his contributions to offense. I would love to see the numbers Frank could get if he played half his games in Wrigley, they would be beyond phenomenal.

dougs78
03-05-2004, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
Forgot to say that I think the Derek Lee over Frank Thomas is preposterous, I can sacrifice some defense for Thomas' much superior bat.


I agree 100%. The only place Lee is better than Thomas is 5x5 roto league because of his steals. I sometimes think fantasy baseball is starting guide the way people view players, as opposed to vice a versa.

wdelaney72
03-05-2004, 08:44 AM
Crede over Ramirez easily. Ramirez is the Cubs version of D'angleo Jimenez, except they actually like him!

As it stands now, there is no question on Grudz over Harris and Patterson over Rowand. This could change, though, by next season. I'm very optomisti on Rowand and Harris.

Valentin and Gonzalez? I don't want either! I guess I'd have to go with Gonzalez's Glove (even with last year's playoffs). Gonzalez may have a crappy BA, but his clutch hitting is equal or even better than Jose.

Cubs starting pitching (while over-rated) is clearly superior to the Sox. The Cubs have a stronger bench.

I'd give the Sox the edge in the bullpen.

Kittle
03-05-2004, 09:22 AM
LF- Lee vs Alou= About even
CF- Rowand vs Patterson = Patterson, easily
RF- Maggs vs Sosa = Slight edge to Steroid Boy
3B- Crede vs Ramirez= Ramirez
SS- Valentin vs Gonzalez= Valentin
2B-Harris vs Grudzielanek = Grudzielanek. Harris sucks.
1B Frank vs Lee = Frank
C- Alamar vs Barrett = Probably Barrett, but neither are that good

So how can they say the Cubs have a shot, and the Sox should stay in Arizona? Pitching? Loiaza, Buehlre, Garland, and Scotty can and hold their own.

So tell me do I have a piont, or am I totally biased

You forgot that the Scrubs have Prior, Wood, Maddux, Zambrano, and Clement.

That said, I'm sure that both teams will find a way to screw it up, as usual.

munchman33
03-05-2004, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
Ramirez is the Cubs version of D'angleo Jimenez, except they actually like him!

Nice analogy! I completely agree.

Maximo
03-05-2004, 10:33 AM
It's pitching ....pitching....pitching, and unfortunately, the Cubs have got us on that one. Especially in a shortened playoff series.

That being said....Cubs total lineup vs Sox total lineup, both offensively and defensively, is a 'push'.

That means we're down to the intangibles such as injuries...meeting expectations....potential for clubhouse 'garbage'....strength of the divisions........
and playing as a team.

Based on the first week of spring training......I like what I'm hearing.


And I still don't like Reinsdorf.