PDA

View Full Version : Should We Really Get Upset About Steroids?


owensmouth
03-03-2004, 05:18 AM
Okay, Giambi, Sheffield and Bonds supposedly received steroids. Virtually everyone who has ever written a line on this board is convinced that at least one right fielder from that other team has sold his sole to the devil while filling his body with the stuff. Some of us are anxious for Bernard to make the team just so we can burn him at the stale when he gets to the Cell.

Steroids have been illegal in MLB for what, one year?

When MLB banned the spitball, it allowed pitchers who were already using it to continue to use it. Should the same be done in the case of steroids?

You can argue that it gives some players an advantage, but so did the spitball.

Think of it this way... remember the race between McGuire and Sosa? Their race to win the home run title a few years ago is what some people say saved baseball.

No matter what we think of him, Sosa has done more to energize the Cubs' fans than any other person.

So while we may have legitimate complaints about steroids, they may have helped MLB also.

ondafarm
03-03-2004, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by owensmouth
When MLB banned the spitball, it allowed pitchers who were already using it to continue to use it. Should the same be done in the case of steroids?

You can argue that it gives some players an advantage, but so did the spitball.

The spitball was a behavior. It was part of the pitchers' arsenal. Taking it away would have handcuffed them. Individual players have the same chance as anyone for hits without steroids. Building extra muscle just enhances their ability and gives them an unfair advantage. I don't see it as the same at all. Think of banning stickum in the NFL.

SSN721
03-03-2004, 06:51 AM
I think baseball more than any other sport is a game of numbers. We all cherish records in this game, from lifetime wins, to ERA, to lifetime average, and one of the most glamorous record is the HR record. I think in general this is the most important stat to a lot of regular and most casual fans. I beleive that since this is the one stat that can truly be altered by someone taking steroids it would be a travesty if someone taking them was allowed to take this record when everyone before them were able to do it with their own ability and w/o any chemical help. It would tarnish the game and sets a horrible example to younger players who would think they would have to take drubs to remain competitive. The game needs to be clean for it to be the true national pastime.

Kittle
03-03-2004, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by owensmouth

Think of it this way... remember the race between McGuire and Sosa? Their race to win the home run title a few years ago is what some people say saved baseball.

No matter what we think of him, Sosa has done more to energize the Cubs' fans than any other person.

So while we may have legitimate complaints about steroids, they may have helped MLB also.

As was stated in the previous post, baseball has the longest tradition of our nation's sports. Therefore, records are held in very high regard: Bonds' and Aaron's HR records, DiMaggio's hitting streak, Ted Williams' .400 BA, Ripken's consecutive game streak, etc.

Sure, Sosa, McGwire, and Bonds did a lot for baseball while breaking the single season HR records.
Attendance, ratings, and fan interest went up dramatically. But when one realizes that they broke that record with the aid of steroids, their accomplishments are suddenly "asterisked." Almost everyone I've talked to about this says, "Yeah, what Bonds and McGwire did was incredible, but Ruth and Maris didn't need steroids to do it."

Steroids poison the game and it's tradition. Period.

SSN721
03-03-2004, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by Kittle


Steroids poison the game and it's tradition. Period.

I unequivocally agree. I think that will be the truest statement in this entire thread.

34rancher
03-03-2004, 08:19 AM
I think we should get more upset. It is plain and simple cheating. It is Enron, WorldCom, and Halliburton all in one. Now it involves kids. This generation of kids is losing its innocence faster than Hawk can say he gone. When kids think it is ok to do drugs, then we as adults have failed them. I say heck with major league baseball, steroids are illegal, arrest their sorry butts. Make them do community service. Make then put on orange jump suits and pick up trash on the highways. Let's make Selig first.....

white sox bill
03-03-2004, 09:13 AM
When I was competing in bodybuilding, I took steroids, and with the exception of a month off here and there, was on them from 1983 thru 1990. First, they are a precription only drug, no more illegal than anti-biotics or anti-depressants.

The change in my body was considerable in a short time, true. But I was working out with heavy weights and eating very lean foods. The juice made me stronger but I still had to lift the weights. The h20 retention made me look bigger during the bulk cycle and we had cutting drugs which were used 8 weeks prior to contests.

Thats not the point though...In the sport of bodybuilding its a unwritten rule that 'roids are the norm, unless its a natural contest which aren't well attended. People want to see freaks...

Should we allow the use of drugs (or for that matter the spitball) for everyone and tout it as "Times have changed" thing? Players are bigger, stronger today and we have science to help them.

Do we sacrifice the clean image(somewhat) of baseball just to have HR chasing record contest between players to further the sports interest? Yrs ago, the 90 MPH fastball was a milestone, now its a minumum, so are the pitchers using? My point is where do we draw the line between chemically enhanced atheletes who thrill us with their feats and trying to keep the publics interst in watching a sport wheres there not much excitment..

Anybody?
Bill

Frater Perdurabo
03-03-2004, 09:20 AM
Get the chemicals out of the game. The game is being ruined by the emphasis on the long ball and the childish fights between the greed-driven agents and players and the selfish owners. The game I loved as a child is being ruined. I still love the game, but unless some reforms are made -- including BANNING steroids and other similar chemicals -- I see myself giving up baseball at some point in the future.

voodoochile
03-03-2004, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by white sox bill
When I was competing in bodybuilding, I took steroids, and with the exception of a month off here and there, was on them from 1983 thru 1990. First, they are a precription only drug, no more illegal than anti-biotics or anti-depressants.

The change in my body was considerable in a short time, true. But I was working out with heavy weights and eating very lean foods. The juice made me stronger but I still had to lift the weights. The h20 retention made me look bigger during the bulk cycle and we had cutting drugs which were used 8 weeks prior to contests.

Thats not the point though...In the sport of bodybuilding its a unwritten rule that 'roids are the norm, unless its a natural contest which aren't well attended. People want to see freaks...

Should we allow the use of drugs (or for that matter the spitball) for everyone and tout it as "Times have changed" thing? Players are bigger, stronger today and we have science to help them.

Do we sacrifice the clean image(somewhat) of baseball just to have HR chasing record contest between players to further the sports interest? Yrs ago, the 90 MPH fastball was a milestone, now its a minumum, so are the pitchers using? My point is where do we draw the line between chemically enhanced atheletes who thrill us with their feats and trying to keep the publics interst in watching a sport wheres there not much excitment..

Anybody?
Bill

No, we cannot afford to condone the behavior for the exact reasons Rancher mentioned. Kids follow the sport. We don't want to make 12 YO boys who are the best on their LL team to think about taking them so they stand a chance of making the bigs. That would be a disaster and could dramatically affect both families and the game itself.

Keep the game as clean as possible. I don't want to see a juiced up freak show, I want to see good baseball played by natural athletes after years of practice.

Mickster
03-03-2004, 09:38 AM
Listening to the Score this am, they actually brought up some interesting points.

In 2000, Thomas lost to Giambi for MVP by 4 1st place votes. A 3rd MVP season for FT would have all but guaranteed him induction to Cooperstown.

Giambi's 1998 and 1999 statistics were clearly less than "MVP" stats, HR totals for those years were somewhat pathetic for a $100m player.

Did steroid use have an effect on the sox?

voodoochile
03-03-2004, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Mickster
Listening to the Score this am, they actually brought up some interesting points.

In 2000, Thomas lost to Giambi for MVP by 4 1st place votes. A 3rd MVP season for FT would have all but guaranteed him induction to Cooperstown.

Giambi's 1998 and 1999 statistics were clearly less than "MVP" stats, HR totals for those years were somewhat pathetic for a $100m player.

Did steroid use have an effect on the sox?

It affected Frank for sure. He wins that award, JR would have had to remove the DSC from Frank's contract.

Might have made these last few years a bit different...

PaleHoseGeorge
03-03-2004, 09:42 AM
Hey, if it is all about putting up bigger and better numbers I can think of a million ways to create the same illusion rather than steroids. For starters let the hitters use aluminum bats and let the pitchers pitch off a 36-inch mound.

I'm in favor of expunging the home run records set by McGwire, Bonds, and all the lesser freaks baseball created these last 10 years. That includes the cheat on the North Side, too. Baseball has become a joke these last 10 years and these guys are the biggest clowns of them all.

:corker

Jerko
03-03-2004, 09:46 AM
We should NOT tolerate steroids from a sport that acts all high and mighty and likes to use words like "integrity" "purist" or "traditionalist" to describe itself and say that "nobody is above the game". There is nothing "pure" about cheating execpt maybe the grade of the steroid, and EVERYBODY that cheats IS above the game. Gambling is a lifetime ban but cheating during the physical playing of the games is "accepted"? That's bull. Even the Steve Howe fiasco; the guy got caught positive for coke 7 times, where were all the "liberals" then saying "well, we didn't actually SEE him do it, he must be innocent until proven guilty" Then he gets reinstated every time to the point where it is "cute" to be a coke-head. Same with Gaylord Perry and his spitballs, but God forbid you take Seabiscuit in the 8th race. Perry is a cheater who is in the hall of fame and everybody looks at him as a cute and cuddly old curmudgeon while the same people would spit on Pete Rose while acting as if he killed their dog. Ask players that DO NOT use steroids the question that is the title of this thread; their answer would be "yes, we should get upset"

poorme
03-03-2004, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by white sox bill
First, they are a precription only drug, no more illegal than anti-biotics or anti-depressants.
Bill

So how did you get them? Probably illegally or at the very least unethically.

Jerko
03-03-2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by poorme
So how did you get them? Probably illegally or at the very least unethically.

True. I don't remember gettin prescription drugs without a prescription, and I don't think Bonds' trainer or Scammy's connection in the Domincan are doctors. Maybe they will use their wives as a drug mule like Romanowski did; he had scripts under her name at who knows how many pharmacies and then he used the stuff on himself.

voodoochile
03-03-2004, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by poorme
So how did you get them? Probably illegally or at the very least unethically.

You'd be surprised how easy that is. People have family members who are doctors or friends who are, or once you are "in" the community, there are normally people who will point you in the right direction.

Heck, this is playing out right before our eyes with the medical marijuana stuff going on in SF. From a casual observer's eyes, most of the people with subscriptions appear to be able bodied young men in their late teens and 20's. So someone somewhere is writing scripts to get these guys legal access to pot. I am sure the same thing goes on with steroids.

Heck, didn't Rush Limbaugh's connection have a prescription for the drugs she provided him that she got through a doctor?

Jerko
03-03-2004, 10:11 AM
Like he said, illegally and unethically.

Fungo
03-03-2004, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
We should NOT tolerate steroids from a sport that acts all high and mighty and likes to use words like "integrity" "purist" or "traditionalist" to describe itself and say that "nobody is above the game". There is nothing "pure" about cheating execpt maybe the grade of the steroid, and EVERYBODY that cheats IS above the game. Gambling is a lifetime ban but cheating during the physical playing of the games is "accepted"? That's bull. Even the Steve Howe fiasco; the guy got caught positive for coke 7 times, where were all the "liberals" then saying "well, we didn't actually SEE him do it, he must be innocent until proven guilty" Then he gets reinstated every time to the point where it is "cute" to be a coke-head. Same with Gaylord Perry and his spitballs, but God forbid you take Seabiscuit in the 8th race. Perry is a cheater who is in the hall of fame and everybody looks at him as a cute and cuddly old curmudgeon while the same people would spit on Pete Rose while acting as if he killed their dog. Ask players that DO NOT use steroids the question that is the title of this thread; their answer would be "yes, we should get upset"
The potential fallout of all this could be huge, especially if the "clean" plyers start turning on the guys who have juiced. The players union could be up for grabs. If guys feel like they may have been possible cheated out of money because they failed to meet a clause in their contract such as being in the top 10 home run totals, MVP voting, etc. Frank is a perfect example of this. Not only did these guys, if they are found to be guilty, cheat themselves & cheat the game, they also cheated their fellows players as well.

rahulsekhar
03-03-2004, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Fungo
The potential fallout of all this could be huge, especially if the "clean" plyers start turning on the guys who have juiced. The players union could be up for grabs. If guys feel like they may have been possible cheated out of money because they failed to meet a clause in their contract such as being in the top 10 home run totals, MVP voting, etc. Frank is a perfect example of this. Not only did these guys, if they are found to be guilty, cheat themselves & cheat the game, they also cheated their fellows players as well.

And importantly - it's another case of their "union" not looking out for their interests. 2 big instances in 1 offseason (Arod & this). This has potential to cause serious problems for the MLBPA - both in public opinion and their own ranks. Once you divide a union, it can becomes difficult to keep ranks on other issues.

daveeym
03-03-2004, 10:33 AM
Linky (http://www.suntimes.com/output/telander/cst-spt-rick03.html)

Great article.

We should be outraged about steroids not just really upset.

My baseball career ended in college due to injuries so i didn't have to worry about making the choice. However, everyone that I ever played with that got drafted would come back saying at least 50% of players are on roids and I'm going to have to get on em to have a chance at the bigs or just enjoy my few years in the minors and hope for a miracle.

Along with asterisks I think for every clown proven to use steroids their stats should be put in teal.

KingXerxes
03-03-2004, 11:07 AM
I am outraged. The fact that these guys have basically tainted the record books for good infuriates me.

Here's how to fix it. First the onus is totally on the players to come clean about the use of these things. Next mandatory and random testing, with failures resulting in loooooooooooooong suspensions or bans. As far as expunging the record books and such - forget it. Leave the books the way they are, and the game will survive just fine. The 90's and early 00's will be treated in time much like the late 20's and early 30's (when offensive output went through the roof due to changes in the baseball and other such things). I forget which year, but if you take a look in the early 1930's, I think the league batting average was something like .285. Just clean it up, acknowledge that a lot of screwing around was going on, and move on with systems to not allow it to happen again.

white sox bill
03-03-2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by poorme
So how did you get them? Probably illegally or at the very least unethically.

A medical Dr. will prescribe them, put IIRC in Illinois, they have to fill out a tripulate form with the pharmacy, one which is sent to the FDA for scrunity. If the script is for cosmetic or non-medical use, the Dr risks an audit and losing his license. (At laest that was how it was yrs. ago, I'm out of it these days).

But I'm sure plenty of Dr's cover their butts on this with some phony medical excuse...

The drugs are over the counter in Mexico although the quality control is substandard. There is also a booming black market on top of websites that ship from European countries. Trust me, they are readily alvaible for the right price.

My guess is that corky has a friend of a friend of a friend and his own very trusted friend get them under ananitomy (sp?). He's at least smart enough to know to keep it under wraps rather than having a company give them to him under the guise of "supplement company".

soxfan26
03-03-2004, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by white sox bill
A medical Dr. will prescribe them, put IIRC in Illinois, they have to fill out a tripulate form with the pharmacy, one which is sent to the FDA for scrunity. If the script is for cosmetic or non-medical use, the Dr risks an audit and losing his license. (At laest that was how it was yrs. ago, I'm out of it these days).

But I'm sure plenty of Dr's cover their butts on this with some phony medical excuse...

The drugs are over the counter in Mexico although the quality control is substandard. There is also a booming black market on top of websites that ship from European countries. Trust me, they are readily alvaible for the right price.

My guess is that corky has a friend of a friend of a friend and his own very trusted friend get them under ananitomy (sp?). He's at least smart enough to know to keep it under wraps rather than having a company give them to him under the guise of "supplement company".

A Phony Medical Excuse is pretty wording for Illegal distribution of a Class I substance, in other words, a felony. Prescriptions of otherwise illegal drugs for medicinal purposes are monitored by the DEA. I know that people still break the law and not everyone will get caught, but that is a poor reason to say that it is OK.

If a Black Market for any good exists it is because there is some government control that makes buying or selling the item illegal. You can buy and endangered species for the right price.

Just because it has been done in the past and continues to happen is no reason to condone it. I'm not equipped to argue whether or not steroids should be illegal. But the fact is that they are. I can appreciate your candor when talking about your personal experiences, but as I said just because you can doesn't mean you should. Especially not for the sake of entertainment.

Hangar18
03-04-2004, 10:46 AM
Oh....let me weigh in on this. In a nutshell ...
IM OUTRAGED. and mostly because I think Baseballs lords
knew this was going on, thinking it was going to "help" the
game. I dont care how many times Mike Kiley, Carol Sleazak and the rest of the media "tell" me how McGuire and Sosa
"Saved baseball" back in 1998. Thats a bunch of BullJunk.
just because cub fans were stupid enough to believe it .....
the Owners again....Continue to Ruin the game I love
and Betray my Trust

Nick@Nite
03-04-2004, 11:16 AM
YES.

Btw, the only 'roids players should have are the type developed by the Babe after he chowed down dozens of hot dogs back in 1925.

39thandWallace
03-04-2004, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by owensmouth
Okay, Giambi, Sheffield and Bonds supposedly received steroids. Virtually everyone who has ever written a line on this board is convinced that at least one right fielder from that other team has sold his sole to the devil while filling his body with the stuff. Some of us are anxious for Bernard to make the team just so we can burn him at the stale when he gets to the Cell.

Steroids have been illegal in MLB for what, one year?

When MLB banned the spitball, it allowed pitchers who were already using it to continue to use it. Should the same be done in the case of steroids?

You can argue that it gives some players an advantage, but so did the spitball.

Think of it this way... remember the race between McGuire and Sosa? Their race to win the home run title a few years ago is what some people say saved baseball.

No matter what we think of him, Sosa has done more to energize the Cubs' fans than any other person.

So while we may have legitimate complaints about steroids, they may have helped MLB also.

I completely agree with you, I was bitter and Sosa and McGuire saved the game as far as I am concerned.

I think Maris is still the legit homerun leader and McGuire, Sosa, and Bonds should have the *.

Kittle
03-04-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Oh....let me weigh in on this. In a nutshell ...
IM OUTRAGED. and mostly because I think Baseballs lords
knew this was going on, thinking it was going to "help" the
game.

Yeah, I'm sure that the owners and Commissioner's office knew what was going on, but why crack down and lose money?

Selig, the owners, and the MLBPA are all to blame for this.

Hangar18
03-04-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by owensmouth


Think of it this way... remember the race between McGuire and Sosa? Their race to win the home run title a few years ago is what some people say saved baseball.

No matter what we think of him, Sosa has done more to energize the Cubs' fans than any other person.

So while we may have legitimate complaints about steroids, they may have helped MLB also.

Owens, I Wholeheartedly disagree with you. On basically every point at that. That Home Run Race you speak of, in "what some people say saved baseball". Those "some people" were the MEDIA. I never believed it from the getgo. If they truly saved baseball....Why are the Reds and Pirates giving away their players? Why are the Marlins still dumping players months removed from winning the World Series? Why are stadiums Half empty all across MLB? They didnt save baseball at all, it was just a neat Propoganda Ploy to buy baseball some time.
and that Time came and went. Baseball NEVER addressed the issue of revenue sharing. Instead, last year, they tried to tell you how "great for baseball" it wouldve been had the RedSox and Cubs gone to the WS. WHat BullJunk. Baseballs in as bad a position as its ever been. The Cubs, I personally think, are helping to "mask" baseballs problems. HEY MLB....Time to pay the piper for all of that Nonsensical Expansion and Lack of Real Salary Cap. Mlb's response? "hey...look at the cubs! Isnt that great for baseball if they make it finally! and the RedSox too! wouldnt it be great for 2 teams that havnt been to the WS make it there?!!??!! (never mind that the bosox were there in 1986 and 1975 and been to the playoffs countless times inbetween. all marketing to the dumbfan)

As for Sosa "energizing the fans" more than any one person?
Anyone couldve done that, as long as the Chicago Media/Cubbie Cubpoganda Machine is in order. If it wasnt Sosa, Wood wouldve been the Anointed one. Dont Laugh....had Augie Ojeda still been here, and Sosa left....He wouldve risen to Legendary Status as cubhero. The Messiah himself is making room on the throne for his ascension this year in Chicago Media Hearts

soxfan26
03-04-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
Yeah, I'm sure that the owners and Commissioner's office knew what was going on, but why crack down and lose money?

Selig, the owners, and the MLBPA are all to blame for this.

You guys said it. I agree that Selig knew what was going on. But even if he didn't he should have known what was going on and should be axed either way.

The bottom line is that MLB cannot tolerate it's players engaging in illegal activity. No matter what the outcome is.

Palehose13
03-04-2004, 03:24 PM
IF the HR race of 1998 saved baseball, the "revelation" of steroid use (especially by the players who supposedly saved baseball) will have a negative effect on the sport and may be worse off than pre-1998. The fans are being cheated, and I am outraged. However, the people that should be (are probably are) the most outraged are the guys like our very own Frank Thomas. Thomas is definitely one of the best hitters that the game has seen, and yet because of these juice pumping egomaniacs his accomplishments are overlooked. As stated in another thread Thomas is among the leaders in almost all career hitting stats. Yet many do not consider him a lock for Cooperstown. IMO, this is because he was never involved in any of the ridiculous HR races. He is a pure hitter with a good eye and consistently produces year after year. Thomas instead of Bonds or Sosa should be considered one of the best hitters in this current baseball era, but unfortunately he only hits 30-40 HR's per year. Any player on the record books that will be found to enhance their performance by use of steroids should at the very least have an * by their name. I love baseball because IMO it is the purest of all sports. If you have the skills, you can play regardless of height, weight, and color. This is clearly seen because men of all shapes, sizes, and colors excel at the sport. By allowing steroid use the sport is reduced to the level of the WWF...a fraud.

Elvisfan1977
03-04-2004, 03:26 PM
The only people who can save baseball are the fans. If we stopped going to the games, buying team merchandise, changed the channel when a game is on or boycotting sponsors of MLB, then we'd have a stronger voice. Until then the players will go strike and the owners will lock them out. But one thing will remain true, the fans will always come back...

Anyone interested in starting a union for the fans? I for one would love to sit at the negotiating table the next time the Player's Union contract is up. We could negotiate a better deal for baseball then Don Fehr or Bud Selig any day of the week and twice on Tuesday's.

rahulsekhar
03-04-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
You guys said it. I agree that Selig knew what was going on. But even if he didn't he should have known what was going on and should be axed either way.

The bottom line is that MLB cannot tolerate it's players engaging in illegal activity. No matter what the outcome is.


And just how are they supposed to do that when it's subject to collective bargaining? In the areas where MLB DOES have full control (i.e. the minors), they seem to have fairly stringent testing rules & penalties. It's the majors where they haven't been able to do that.

Read Fay Vincent's recent comments on the situation and how the owners haven't been able to implement a better policy because they can't do so unilaterally (and the MLBPA is against it). Fay's not exactly an owner's shill either...

Hangar18
03-04-2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
IF the HR race of 1998 saved baseball, the "revelation" of steroid use (especially by the players who supposedly saved baseball) will have a negative effect on the sport and may be worse off than pre-1998..........The fans are being cheated
...... By allowing steroid use the sport is reduced to the level of the WWF...a fraud.


Excellent Post. I believe you speak for ALL Fans, not just Sox Fans when you say this. The Freaking Media is too concerned with staying in Dustys good graces, and what National League restaurants they'll hit in the playoffs when The Messiah is pitching.
All the "records" I saw go down.......All the guys who suddenly were hitting 40something homeruns.....its all an ASTERISK to me now

Palehose13
03-04-2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Excellent Post. I believe you speak for ALL Fans, not just Sox Fans when you say this. The Freaking Media is too concerned with staying in Dustys good graces, and what National League restaurants they'll hit in the playoffs when The Messiah is pitching.
All the "records" I saw go down.......All the guys who suddenly were hitting 40something homeruns.....its all an ASTERISK to me now
Thanks Hangar...I knew we could agree on something someday. Cheers! :gulp:

soxfan26
03-04-2004, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
And just how are they supposed to do that when it's subject to collective bargaining? In the areas where MLB DOES have full control (i.e. the minors), they seem to have fairly stringent testing rules & penalties. It's the majors where they haven't been able to do that.

Read Fay Vincent's recent comments on the situation and how the owners haven't been able to implement a better policy because they can't do so unilaterally (and the MLBPA is against it). Fay's not exactly an owner's shill either...

I read some quotes from him in the NY Post. I understand that the MLBPA is arguably the most powerful union in the world. But at some point the excuses have to run out. The president recognized the problems in baseball in his state of the union address. This steroids issue will be a black mark on the game forever. Someone has to take responsibility. Bud Selig is the commissioner, and just like Jerry Manuel, the buck stops there.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-04-2004, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
....This steroids issue will be a black mark on the game forever. Someone has to take responsibility. Bud Selig is the commissioner, and just like Jerry Manuel, the buck stops there.

Not to be flippant, but is anyone very surprised that something this underhanded would happen in baseball during the watch of a commissioner that started his professional life as a used car salesman?

Daver
03-04-2004, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
. Someone has to take responsibility. Bud Selig is the commissioner, and just like Jerry Manuel, the buck stops there.

Bud Selig is a puppet that has used his office to rid the league of anything that might get in the way of the owners inflicting their will.

Saying Bud Selig is in charge of MLB is like saying Mickey Mouse is in charge of Disney..........

ode to veeck
03-04-2004, 09:50 PM
... or like Don King involved in a boxing match

soxfan26
03-04-2004, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Bud Selig is a puppet that has used his office to rid the league of anything that might get in the way of the owners inflicting their will.

Saying Bud Selig is in charge of MLB is like saying Mickey Mouse is in charge of Disney..........

:tool
"Hey! Mickey is a good friend of mine and I don't appreciate comments like that..."

ode to veeck
03-04-2004, 09:53 PM
the guy who typesets the new MLB record books is gonna need steriods just to have enough energy to put all the needed asterisks in