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View Full Version : Anyone see SI's "then & now" pix?


rahulsekhar
03-01-2004, 01:50 PM
Nice side by side comparisons. Interestingly, there are guys who I don't see as big a difference in as I'd expected. Especially Giambi (although I'm sure it's the angle since I've seen other photos where he looks bigger).

Sammy & Barry are pretty staggering comparisons. Especially in the face/head - not a place where you should be gaining weight unless you do regular "brain crunches".

It's linked off of the front page at http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/

jabrch
03-01-2004, 01:55 PM
This is a perfect pic...so good - it is now my sig.

Sammy spends lots of time in the weight room - I am sure he does. No really. I am not laughing. He does. :angry:



http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=325857

rahulsekhar
03-01-2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
This is a perfect pic...so good - it is now my sig.

Sammy spends lots of time in the weight room - I am sure he does. No really. I am not laughing. He does. :angry:



http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=325857

Especially considering that he's said that prior to this offseason, he never really worked out that hard....Hey Sammy - I guess those electroshock pads not only lose you weight, they also build muscle, huh?

jabrch
03-01-2004, 02:16 PM
javascript:SI_popUrl('/multimedia/photos_from_the_field/2004/02/26/sluggers/content.1.html;730;560');


After you go to http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ you can copy that into your browser address line to find the pics.

DrCrawdad
03-01-2004, 02:25 PM
Sammy looks as big, if not bigger.

Certainly not indicative of a guy who "cut back" on the juice. I know this will not be very popular over here but could it be that Sammy is huge because he actually(GASP) DOES LIFT WEIGHTS? I'm not defending him for the cork fiasco, nor will I ever. He f-up and that is all there is to it. That said, saying without a shadow of a doubt that he is on juice is at best, negligent. It was PROVED he corked his bat, case closed. He got busted and paid the price. It has not been PROVED he is using juice. - NORTHSIDE FAN, LINK (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29609&highlight=sosa)

As I was working, I heard Boers & Bernstein, Bernstein said that just then he was watching Sosa from the Homerun Derby ASG at Seattle. Berns said that Sosa is a shadow of the size that he was then. Also that Sosa looked like cartoon character.

IlliniSox
03-01-2004, 02:25 PM
Boone for one I'm not sure about. He was in an article in the March 2002 playboy (yes, I read the articles). I haven't been able to find a link yet, but it talked about his crazy diet and training regimen. The guy won't even let himself eat ketchup-his only occasional indulgence was a pineapple slice + no beer??? Some guys do work that hard. I definitely believe Boone's gotten bigger naturally, that sucks he's mentioned with those other square-jawed robocops. Testings the only way to prove anything.

jabrch
03-01-2004, 02:34 PM
I just took that picture and printed 27 wallet-sized prints. I am delivering it (via our interoffice mail) to a select group of Cubs fans - mostly those in denial of the fact that Sammy is not just a guy who lifts weights alot.

Baby Fisk
03-01-2004, 02:49 PM
Man, Bonds today looks scary. He looks like the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.

jeremyb1
03-01-2004, 03:23 PM
I don't know about looking at guys faces/necks. What you have to remember is that these pictures are ten years old. Your face probably does tend to fill out some between the ages of 30 and 40.

SoxFan76
03-01-2004, 03:25 PM
Bonds and Sosa are definitely on the juice. And I don't know if anybody else has noticed this, but I'm incredibly pleased that Frank hasn't been a main suspect in this whole issue. All us Sox fans know he doesn't need to cheat, but I thought the rest of the nation had no idea. I'm very impressed.

Boone looked very natural. He looks in shape, not puffy.

jeremyb1
03-01-2004, 03:26 PM
One more note, that before picture of Bonds is from 1993, theoretically before he would've juiced up. However, if you look at his career stats he hit 46 home runs that season, as many as he's hit in any of the past two seasons (given he had more at bats in '93). That makes it awful hard to argue his home runs are the result of steroids.

SoxFan76
03-01-2004, 03:33 PM
You can't argue Bond's HR totals, but you can argue the incredible increase in weight. Sosa you can argue HR totals and his dramatic weight increase.

Bobby Thigpen
03-01-2004, 04:13 PM
Sammy spends lots of time in the weight room - I am sure he does. No really. I am not laughing.

I am certainly not trying to stand up for Sammy here, but from what I have heard from weightlifting guys is that you can do all the steroids you want, but without lifting they aren't going to do anything for you. So while Bonds, Sammy, and Giambi have all gotten huge over the last few years (with roids I suspect) they have to have lifted or the mass wouldn't have been in the proportions that they are now. From everything I've ever heard, if you don't lift and do roids you just put on weight and get flabby breasts. You have to lift for them to be transformed to muscle. So while they have taken the easy way, it's not like they don't lift at all.

Steroids would not make the average Joe from Peoria a 250 lb monster if he just sat around and watched TV. You still have to lift.

Jerko
03-01-2004, 04:25 PM
What excatly DOES Sammy do in the weight room? Head Curls? Cranium Crunches? How'd his head get so big?

jeremyb1
03-01-2004, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
You can't argue Bond's HR totals, but you can argue the incredible increase in weight. Sosa you can argue HR totals and his dramatic weight increase.

I think its a really serious and careless action to accuse someone of cheating based entirely on weight gain. Just look around this thread. There are quotes insisting Bonds "definitely" uses steroids. Why simply because of weight gain? Is it really unfeasible for someone to bulk up as Bonds has? As far as I know none of us are doctors or even personal trainers for that matter. Creatine and Andro are completely legal in the sport and legal drugs of that nature as well as more efficient methods of weight training have emerged in recent years. Bonds certainly could be using steroids but to label it a certainty based solely on a laymen's viewing of two pictures ten years appart is over the top in my opinion.

CubKilla
03-01-2004, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
What excatly DOES Sammy do in the weight room? Head Curls? Cranium Crunches? How'd his head get so big?

Ego

rahulsekhar
03-01-2004, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I think its a really serious and careless action to accuse someone of cheating based entirely on weight gain. Just look around this thread. There are quotes insisting Bonds "definitely" uses steroids. Why simply because of weight gain? Is it really unfeasible for someone to bulk up as Bonds has? As far as I know none of us are doctors or even personal trainers for that matter. Creatine and Andro are completely legal in the sport and legal drugs of that nature as well as more efficient methods of weight training have emerged in recent years. Bonds certainly could be using steroids but to label it a certainty based solely on a laymen's viewing of two pictures ten years appart is over the top in my opinion.

If it were simply weight gain, you'd be right. But the manner in which weight is gained, the places in which it's gained, and the time frame all are indications of HOW the weight is gained.

In Bonds and Sosa's cases - significant increases in head size and rapid gain of weight are strong indications that it's not just a lot of lifting.

For what it's worth, my personal opinion is that neither Bonds or Sosa are on or have been on steroids. I think they're both smarter than that and are one one of the less detectable custom drugs.

Daver
03-01-2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar


For what it's worth, my personal opinion is that neither Bonds or Sosa are on or have been on steroids. I think they're both smarter than that and are one one of the less detectable custom drugs.

Those drugs you are referring to are still steroids,and share the same side effects as regular anabolic steroids,the difference is in their detectibility.

jeremyb1
03-01-2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
If it were simply weight gain, you'd be right. But the manner in which weight is gained, the places in which it's gained, and the time frame all are indications of HOW the weight is gained.

In Bonds and Sosa's cases - significant increases in head size and rapid gain of weight are strong indications that it's not just a lot of lifting.

For what it's worth, my personal opinion is that neither Bonds or Sosa are on or have been on steroids. I think they're both smarter than that and are one one of the less detectable custom drugs.

Well if it was that rapid, SI should show more recent pictures than ones that are 13 and 10 years apart. Maybe pictures a year or two apart would be a lot more convincing.

SoxEd
03-01-2004, 06:13 PM
Steroids will be a thing of the past soon - superseded by Gene Therapy to bulk up muscle mass.

If you're crazy/desperate enough to take anabolic steroids, then why not monkey about with DNA therapy (unless, like me, it just makes you think of the 'pituitary gland' schtick in 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas')?

IMO there is absolutely no justification for the MLBPA to oppose mandatory drugs tests.
Even if you take away the fact that using drugs is considered cheating by every other major sport in the world, 'roids (and other performance enhancing drugs) should be banned.

The UK's top sprinter, Dwaine Chambers was found to have used THG, and has just been banned from competing in Athletics for two years - and banned from the Olympics for life.
This despite the fact that THG wasn't even on the Banned Substances list at the time he failed the test.
I believe he's now looking for a gig in the NFL (yeah, like he can just jump straight into the game at the professional level without ever having played it. Muppet.).
Athletics is trying to make sure that it is clean, and that the fans know that the performances that they see are the result of talent, dedication and hard work, rather than being able to afford a better Chemist than your competitors.

I would even argue that, if anything, prevention of steroid abuse is actually in MLBPA members' interests (and not the owners') - presumably less juicers means less HR's which means less bums-on-seats, but less juicers also means less health problems for ex-MLB stars (and less incidences of wife-beating and other violent behaviours that bring the sport and its players into disrepute).

When there are so many kids going to watch Sports, idolising their sporting heroes, and wanting to be like them, which message do you think the athletes should be seen to give out:

i) 'so you can't make the grade - never mind, cheat', or;

ii) 'solve your problems with Substance Abuse', or;

iii) 'drugs are bad and we won't tolerate cheats or drug abusers'?

Hell, even Soccer has mandatory drug testing now, so why hasn't Baseball?

The MLBPA should look past the potential short-term financial gains open to juicers and demand the introduction of mandatory drugs testing - either RIGHT NOW or, if they think embarrassingly large numbers of players are still on the juice and need time to get clean, at the START of next season.

Deadguy
03-01-2004, 07:13 PM
I'm surprised no one has bothered to point a finger at Jeff Bagwell. He too looks drastically different in the mid 90s through last year, and he reported to camp 15 lbs lighter than he was last year.