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ChiSox14305635
02-27-2004, 06:52 PM
I thought I heard Ozzie say on the radio that Koch was going into the year as the closer, but then I read this tidbit today by ESPN dolt Jayson Stark:

The White Sox appear to be leaning toward using Japanese free agent Shingo Takatsu as their closer. But one international scout says that would be a bigggg mistake.
While the scout liked Takatsu's changeup and deceptive delivery, what he didn't like was this: "His fastball was only 84-85 mph and only touched 87. And he showed a slurvy-type, below-average curveball." The scout's assessment: "A long man, for me."



Did Ozzie do an about-face, or is this another ESPN error?

poorme
02-27-2004, 06:57 PM
Stark is an idiot. It'll be Koch until he proves otherwise.

lowesox
02-27-2004, 07:27 PM
I think it'll be Marte once everything gets sorted out. Hopefully Koch will surprise me, but at this point, I think it should be Marte.

beckett21
02-27-2004, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
I think it'll be Marte once everything gets sorted out. Hopefully Koch will surprise me, but at this point, I think it should be Marte.

I agree it should be Marte. The problem is, who is going to step up and fill his role. He can give you at least two good solid innings, and it is almost a waste to limit him to just pitching the 9th, especially when we need him for tight situations. I hate Koch, but I hope he can somehow pull himself together because I would really HATE to see him come into a game with men on base and the game on the line in the 7th or 8th. With Gordon and Sullivan, we would have had the luxury to maybe let Marte close. But we still don't know if we can lean on any of these other guys to come in and get us out of trouble in the 6th thru 8th innings, which are as important and sometimes more important than the 9th. We pretty much have to pray that Koch can do the job as closer; unfortunately I think Botch is a lost cause. This one may be a problem. :(:

chisoxjk
02-27-2004, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Stark is an idiot. It'll be Koch until he proves otherwise.

I agree. I also find it hard to believe that one week in, before any game situations, we are leaning any way other than Koch.

I swear he uses CBS sportsline for his sources.

TheRockinMT
02-27-2004, 10:54 PM
Please take note of how late these ESPN writers are with their news. When Shingo was signed the reports were that he was a closer. Almost right away he and the Sox said that he was a set up man, but would be in the mix if Koch didn't rebound. That has been said many times since, but Stark doesn't seem to have the same info everyone else has already gotten.

idseer
02-27-2004, 11:25 PM
i don't know that marte has proven he can close. he's had some success but not very much. i think a lot of people are just wishing. if koch is our opening closer i think we're in real trouble. he is NOT going to suddenly 'get it back'. it's not like he lost his location here. he has no movement and an average fastball now.

our best bet may indeed be zero. speed does not necessarily a closer make. he's pitched for a long while and, while not in the majors, i think we've seen enough really good players from japan now to admit they are of major league caliber. i hope he gets a good shot at it.

SSN721
02-28-2004, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by idseer
i don't know that marte has proven he can close. he's had some success but not very much. i think a lot of people are just wishing. if koch is our opening closer i think we're in real trouble. he is NOT going to suddenly 'get it back'. it's not like he lost his location here. he has no movement and an average fastball now.

our best bet may indeed be zero. speed does not necessarily a closer make. he's pitched for a long while and, while not in the majors, i think we've seen enough really good players from japan now to admit they are of major league caliber. i hope he gets a good shot at it.

I also agree. Everyone that has come over so far has definitely shown the propensity to play at the major league level. I'm sure he will get a shot because I also think that Koch will not just suddenly get his stuff back. SO I am sure Marte and Zero-san will be in the mix for the closer position. I would hate to lose Marte in the setup position though.

HomeFish
02-28-2004, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
Please take note of how late these ESPN writers are with their news. When Shingo was signed the reports were that he was a closer.

The initial reports I read stated that Shingo had signed with the White Sox because they were the only team that guarenteed him the position of closer.

Was that a misunderstanding or something ESPN made up? Or did both sides have a reality check shortly after the signing?

SEALgep
02-28-2004, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by HomeFish
The initial reports I read stated that Shingo had signed with the White Sox because they were the only team that guarenteed him the position of closer.

Was that a misunderstanding or something ESPN made up? Or did both sides have a reality check shortly after the signing? After the signing, the Sox made it clear that the job was still Koch's to lose, and that Shingo understood that prior to signing the deal. I believe ESPN was just assuming.

Daver
02-28-2004, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by HomeFish
The initial reports I read stated that Shingo had signed with the White Sox because they were the only team that guarenteed him the position of closer.

Was that a misunderstanding or something ESPN made up? Or did both sides have a reality check shortly after the signing?

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

mike squires
02-28-2004, 11:22 AM
Another question is, if in fact Koch is your opening day closer when is it determined he loses it? After he blows one on opening day? Then another at Yankee stadium...then you find yourself in hole allready. Ultimately I think it's too early to assume anything. If Koch is even average during spring training and Zero is lights out you have to give it to Zero. Right? I'd almost rather have Koch as a set up man on Martes off days and let Koch pitch the 6 or 7th when necesarry.

I heard on 670 that teams were after williams all winter for Marte to be their closer. Obviosuly he did not budge.

SEALgep
02-28-2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by mike squires
Another question is, if in fact Koch is your opening day closer when is it determined he loses it? After he blows one on opening day? Then another at Yankee stadium...then you find yourself in hole allready. Ultimately I think it's too early to assume anything. If Koch is even average during spring training and Zero is lights out you have to give it to Zero. Right? I'd almost rather have Koch as a set up man on Martes off days and let Koch pitch the 6 or 7th when necesarry.

I heard on 670 that teams were after williams all winter for Marte to be their closer. Obviosuly he did not budge. I think Koch will rebound this season. Even if his speed isn't at 97-98, but rather 93-94, he can still be effective. He was preoccupied with the speed, as that was his strength. However, if you can hit 94, while hitting your spots, you can be very effective. Location is key, and that's Koch's attitude this ST as he was recommended to do. I believe he will pitch effectively. If not though, like you said, we have other options. Although, if Marte has another year like last year, I have no doubt (with Koch off the books) that he will be the new closer next year. The six million saved can be spread around for multiple uses, but most notably replacing Marte's role in the pen.

beckett21
02-28-2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I think Koch will rebound this season. Even if his speed isn't at 97-98, but rather 93-94, he can still be effective. He was preoccupied with the speed, as that was his strength. However, if you can hit 94, while hitting your spots, you can be very effective. Location is key, and that's Koch's attitude this ST as he was recommended to do. I believe he will pitch effectively. If not though, like you said, we have other options. Although, if Marte has another year like last year, I have no doubt (with Koch off the books) that he will be the new closer next year. The six million saved can be spread around for multiple uses, but most notably replacing Marte's role in the pen.

Mods,

Is SEAL the quickest to 1000 posts?

Come on and take the bait SEAL! I would like to play a small part in this historic event! :D:

SEALgep
02-28-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by beckett21
Mods,

Is SEAL the quickest to 1000 posts?

Come on and take the bait SEAL! I would like to play a small part in this historic event! :D: Whooooohoooooo! 1,000! Lol. It has been quite a journey. Fun though. Cheers. :gulp: :smile:

guillen4life13
02-28-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by idseer
indeed be zero. speed does not necessarily a closer make. he's pitched for a long while and, while not in the majors, i think we've seen enough really good players from japan now to admit they are of major league caliber. i hope he gets a good shot at it.


Emptiness is lonelyness and lonelyness is cleanliness and cleanliness is Godliness and God is empty, just like meeee

Sorry, but I just had to do that.
:D: :D: :D:

mantis1212
02-28-2004, 01:38 PM
Does anyone know of any pitcher that lost 6mph on their fastball for a whole year and then gained it back?

I think Koch is finished, done. Marte should be our closer, with Shingo and Wunch as our set-up men. Koch can be our low-quality set-up man, the guy pitching with a 6-run gap.
Another question, why can't Marte be a closer, and come in at the 8th inning? Are 2-inning closers just out of the question these days?

SEALgep
02-28-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by mantis1212
Does anyone know of any pitcher that lost 6mph on their fastball for a whole year and then gained it back?

I think Koch is finished, done. Marte should be our closer, with Shingo and Wunch as our set-up men. Koch can be our low-quality set-up man, the guy pitching with a 6-run gap.
Another question, why can't Marte be a closer, and come in at the 8th inning? Are 2-inning closers just out of the question these days? Marte has stayed in and saved games. However, after pitching a solid two innings for any "closer," they will need adequate rest. I think Koch will be fine going into the season as the closer, but don't be misguided by what they say. He will be watched closely, and they will act accordingly if he is the same as last year. A lot of questions will be answered for them this ST. Koch is focusing on hitting his spots, and I'm sure he has worked on controlling his sinker and curve more. If he can locate with accuracy and precision with his pitches, he will be effective. Keith Foulke doesn't have a lot of speed, but he has a great change and locates well. Whether or not Koch can locate and have another solid pitch- hopefully sinker and curve- will be a major factor in my opinion. I think he will though for the most part.

Realist
02-28-2004, 05:12 PM
Well it certainly isn't me. I chatted this "Dolly" up for two hours last nite and STILL went home with the Tribune. :smile:

beckett21
02-28-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Realist
Well it certainly isn't me. I chatted this "Dolly" up for two hours last nite and STILL went home with the Tribune. :smile:

You mean she wasn't impressed with any of your witty White Sox repartee? :?:

Better luck tonight "Mr. Koch" :cool:

:gulp:

idseer
02-28-2004, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Marte has stayed in and saved games. However, after pitching a solid two innings for any "closer," they will need adequate rest. I think Koch will be fine going into the season as the closer, but don't be misguided by what they say. He will be watched closely, and they will act accordingly if he is the same as last year. A lot of questions will be answered for them this ST. Koch is focusing on hitting his spots, and I'm sure he has worked on controlling his sinker and curve more. If he can locate with accuracy and precision with his pitches, he will be effective. Keith Foulke doesn't have a lot of speed, but he has a great change and locates well. Whether or not Koch can locate and have another solid pitch- hopefully sinker and curve- will be a major factor in my opinion. I think he will though for the most part.

i don't see koch reinventing himself. his whole thing was his blinding fastball. it's gone!
at best he'll become an average pitcher IF he suddenly gains enough control to throw strikes ... much less hit spots. he's been a notoriously poor control pitcher his whole career. why bet on him changing now?

beckett21
02-28-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by idseer
i don't see koch reinventing himself. his whole thing was his blinding fastball. it's gone!
at best he'll become an average pitcher IF he suddenly gains enough control to throw strikes ... much less hit spots. he's been a notoriously poor control pitcher his whole career. why bet on him changing now?

I agree. They were trying to teach him how to pitch back when he was still with Toronto. Alas, to no avail. File this under "lost causes." :(: