PDA

View Full Version : Contract still bothers Frank


Paulwny
02-26-2004, 12:25 PM
I don't believe this has been posted. If it was, will a moderator please delete, thanks.

From Newsday/AP
Thomas wasn't mad at Guillen, who said in November that the two-time MVP needed to be more of a team player.

But Thomas still doesn't agree with the way the team handled his contract after the 2002 season, when the White Sox invoked a diminished-skills clause in his previous agreement.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/wire/sns-ap-bba-white-sox-thomas,0,1353731.story?coll=sns-ap-baseball-headlines

Damn, will a mod change the title, bothers instead of bithers, thanks again.

Kittle
02-26-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
But Thomas still doesn't agree with the way the team handled his contract after the 2002 season, when the White Sox invoked a diminished-skills clause in his previous agreement.

He's lucky that JR didn't invoke it after Frank tore his triceps. For once in his life, JR was "liberal and compassionate" with his spending. Frank got a freebie and is obviously not very grateful for it.

If Frank hadn't pissed all of his money away in stupid investments, he wouldn't have had a "diminished skills clause" in the contact that he signed after the '97 season.

It's your own damn fault, Frank. What are you making this year? Six milliion? Shut the **** up and stop insulting all of us who work even harder for much less.

ChiSox14305635
02-26-2004, 12:39 PM
It wasn't enough that Frank reported with no problems, so now the media is trying to put a negative spin on it. Why do they go out of their way to constantly rip Frank?

CubKilla
02-26-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
It wasn't enough that Frank reported with no problems, so now the media is trying to put a negative spin on it. Why do they go out of their way to constantly rip Frank?

This is old news too. Frank has been miffed with his pay ever since PayRod signed his mega-deal.

Iwritecode
02-26-2004, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
He's lucky that JR didn't invoke it after Frank tore his triceps. For once in his life, JR was "liberal and compassionate" with his spending. Frank got a freebie and is obviously not very grateful for it.

That would have been a truely classless move by JR. He was obviously injured and unable to play that season. It was still a pretty BS move when they did invoke it the next year because he hadn't been able to even swing a bat for almost a year and needed a full year of playing to get back to 100%.

Originally posted by Kittle
If Frank hadn't pissed all of his money away in stupid investments, he wouldn't have had a "diminished skills clause" in the contact that he signed after the '97 season.

:?: Are you his financial advisor? From what I can tell, he's still pretty well off.

Originally posted by Kittle
It's your own damn fault, Frank. What are you making this year? Six milliion? Shut the **** up and stop insulting all of us who work even harder for much less.

He's only comparing his salary to others who are in the same field as he is. Comparing his salary to someone who works a 9 - 5 job is absurd and pointless.

Iwritecode
02-26-2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
It wasn't enough that Frank reported with no problems, so now the media is trying to put a negative spin on it. Why do they go out of their way to constantly rip Frank?

Well, at least in the articles in the Cubune they included the quote where he said he wasn't going to let it bother him...

Dadawg_77
02-26-2004, 12:57 PM
Honestly, I think the real feud is between the dolt kenny and Frank. Hopefully Kenny goes before he gets rid of Frank.

Kittle
02-26-2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
That would have been a truely classless move by JR. He was obviously injured and unable to play that season. It was still a pretty BS move when they did invoke it the next year because he hadn't been able to even swing a bat for almost a year and needed a full year of playing to get back to 100%.

I agree that it would've been a BS move by JR, but invoking it the following season wasn't. A .252 BA sounds like diminished skills to me. I'd be pissed if I had to pay $9 million for that PLUS an entire season lost to injury.



:?: Are you his financial advisor? From what I can tell, he's still pretty well off.

It was well known that Frank lost a significant amount of money from bad investments in the early-mid '90s. No way that a guy like Frank, fresh off of the AL batting title and only three years removed from a league MVP, would allow a "diminished skills" clause in his contract without a good reason.



He's only comparing his salary to others who are in the same field as he is.

And that's his problem. People with regular jobs don't want to hear that bull****. If Frank doesn't want to be ciriticized for whining about his contract, he needs to keep his mouth shut when talking to the media.

You know why Florida is such a bad market for baseball? Because Florida is full of elderly WWII vets trying to scrape by on their piddly social security checks who KNOW the value of a dollar. They don't want to hear whiny crybaby athletes like Frank complain about their financial situation. Most of the elderly people that I know down there (my grandfather's friends) stopped watching baseball after the strike.

steff
02-26-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
:?: Are you his financial advisor? From what I can tell, he's still pretty well off.




Several dozen of us could live VERY WELL off of what Frank has left I'd bet..

Iwritecode
02-26-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
I agree that it would've been a BS move by JR, but invoking it the following season wasn't. A .252 BA sounds like diminished skills to me. I'd be pissed if I had to pay $9 million for that PLUS an entire season lost to injury.

Frank's numbers in 2002 were better than Konerko's last year. How much is Paulie making again??? Besides, Frank was going to get his money sooner or later anyway. It's not like JR was getting out of having to pay him.

Originally posted by Kittle
It was well known that Frank lost a significant amount of money from bad investments in the early-mid '90s. No way that a guy like Frank, fresh off of the AL batting title and only three years removed from a league MVP, would allow a "diminished skills" clause in his contract without a good reason.

I can't think of a single good reason why Frank would have allowed that clause. It baffles me to this day. What do his failed investments have anything to do with it anyway?

Originally posted by Kittle
And that's his problem. People with regular jobs don't want to hear that bull****. If Frank doesn't want to be ciriticized for whining about his contract, he needs to keep his mouth shut when talking to the media.

You know why Florida is such a bad market for baseball? Because Florida is full of elderly WWII vets trying to scrape by on their piddly social security checks who KNOW the value of a dollar. They don't want to hear whiny crybaby athletes like Frank complain about their financial situation. Most of the elderly people that I know down there (my grandfather's friends) stopped watching baseball after the strike.

Baseball players get paid big money because they can do something only a small percentage of the population can do and a lot of people like to pay money to see them do it. I hope none of the people down in Florida ever watch TV either because actors get paid just as much if not more than athletes. It's the same thing...

hold2dibber
02-26-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
If Frank hadn't pissed all of his money away in stupid investments, he wouldn't have had a "diminished skills clause" in the contact that he signed after the '97 season.

I don't get it - if he had lost a bunch of money in stupid investments, why would he agree to a contract that would allow his employer to reduce his salary? That doesn't follow.

It's your own damn fault, Frank. What are you making this year? Six milliion? Shut the **** up and stop insulting all of us who work even harder for much less.

Dude, you're falling into a media trap here. Frank isn't whining about his contract - he goes to camp, is all happy and smiley, and a reporter trying to stir up some controversy starts asking him about old, ancient history. He's not happy with how the Sox treated him and feels like he deserves more respect. I understand disagreeing with him on those points, but it's not exactly like he's bitching and moaning - he was responding to a question, he told the truth, said it was no big deal, that he was over it and that he wouldn't let it bother him. He didn't come in bitching and moaning; don't blow it out of proportion.

Deadguy
02-26-2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
It's your own damn fault, Frank. What are you making this year? Six milliion? Shut the **** up and stop insulting all of us who work even harder for much less.

Frank didn't complain at all. This is just the media's attempt to put a negative spin on Thomas' entrance to Spring Training, despite the fact that he has been all smiles, and been more than willing to deal with the media, and he's been saying all the right things. Just read the article in the Tribune:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-040225soxbrite,1,2690747.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

"I do feel contractually there is a respect level for what you have done for so many years and I don't feel I'm [getting] that right now," he said. "But I can't complain about the money I make."

"I'm not going to complain about it," Thomas said. "I still have to go out and work my butt off and not hold grudges."

What did Thomas say to deserve to be ripped?

Kittle
02-26-2004, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Frank's numbers in 2002 were better than Konerko's last year. How much is Paulie making again??? Besides, Frank was going to get his money sooner or later anyway. It's not like JR was getting out of having to pay him.

Paulie doesn't have a diminished skills clause in his contract.

If Frank's payment are deferred, then he REALLY has no room to complain.


[QB] I can't think of a single good reason why Frank would have allowed that clause. It baffles me to this day. What do his failed investments have anything to do with it anyway?[/B]

I know that Frank owned a record label that went belly-up and he lost a good chunk of change from that. Outside of that, I only know what I've read, which is that the "diminished skills" clause was apparently included because of his financial situation. The contract was long and incentive-laden, so it's possible that Frank wanted a longer contract (to financially secure his future) than JR was willing to offer. The contract gave JR an "out" if Frank didn't produce in the future.

However, the point is that Frank signed that contract. He made his bed and now has to lay in it.

[QB] Baseball players get paid big money because they can do something only a small percentage of the population can do [/B]

Well, that's nice, but Joe Average who makes $40,000 a year doesn't want to hear Frank bitch about the $8 million that he earned two years ago being deferred.

That's the problem with MLB. There's so much public complaining about money (the constant head-butting of the owners and the MLBPA) that it's alienated a significant amount of fans. I don't have a problem with these guys wanting what they think is their fair share, but they'd be better off doing it behind closed doors.

Kittle
02-26-2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy

"I do feel contractually there is a respect level for what you have done for so many years and I don't feel I'm [getting] that right now," he said. "But I can't complain about the money I make."

"I'm not going to complain about it," Thomas said. "I still have to go out and work my butt off and not hold grudges."

What did Thomas say to deserve to be ripped?

I was ripping him for being angry that JR invoked the "diminished skills" clause in '02. He signed the contract and he has nothing to complain about.

It's nice to see Frank is taking some responsiblity, but I think that he'd be better off just NOT talking about money with the media anymore.

Deadguy
02-26-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
I was ripping him for being angry that JR invoked the "diminished skills" clause in '02. He signed the contract and he has nothing to complain about.

It's nice to see Frank is taking some responsiblity, but I think that he'd be better off just NOT talking about money with the media anymore.


First of all, get your facts straight. KW invoked the clause, not JR. It is JR who reworked the deal in order to create a deal where the present value of the contract would give Thomas financial flexibility in the short-term.

Second of all, Thomas is simply responding to questions proposed to him by the media, and he responded to these types of questions with much more maturity and common sense than he did last year.

These negative articles are simply the creation of a pissed off media that is disappointed that they came to Tuscon to get a glimpse of a rumble between Thomas and Guillen that never transpired. By showing up early, saying all the right things, and putting on a front where he at least is trying to portray a less selfish attitude, he is getting the last laugh in this situation.

Instead of the media giving Thomas props for this, they are either writing condescending columns questioning where the "real" Thomas is, or that he will eventually boil over, or baseless articles such as this one.

Iwritecode
02-26-2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
Paulie doesn't have a diminished skills clause in his contract.


That's not the point. The point is that Frank was still putting up some pretty damn good #'s even while he wasn't 100%. They weren't up to par with his unbelievable career numbers but they weren't that bad either.


Originally posted by Kittle
If Frank's payment are deferred, then he REALLY has no room to complain.

Well, they were but I'm sure he'd like to have his money sooner than later. I know that's how I like to get paid.

Originally posted by Kittle
I know that Frank owned a record label that went belly-up and he lost a good chunk of change from that. Outside of that, I only know what I've read, which is that the "diminished skills" clause was apparently included because of his financial situation. The contract was long and incentive-laden, so it's possible that Frank wanted a longer contract (to financially secure his future) than JR was willing to offer. The contract gave JR an "out" if Frank didn't produce in the future.

I'm sure that was part of it and more than likely Frank thought that barring a career threatening injury (like the one he had) he would be able to put up those #'s throughout the years of the contract.

Originally posted by Kittle
However, the point is that Frank signed that contract. He made his bed and now has to lay in it.

True. Although he did say he was over it and he can't really complain about what he's making now. It was really only responding to a direct question in the first place.


Originally posted by Kittle
Well, that's nice, but Joe Average who makes $40,000 a year doesn't want to hear Frank bitch about the $8 million that he earned two years ago being deferred.

That's the problem with MLB. There's so much public complaining about money (the constant head-butting of the owners and the MLBPA) that it's alienated a significant amount of fans. I don't have a problem with these guys wanting what they think is their fair share, but they'd be better off doing it behind closed doors.


I'm sure if Joe Average was bringing home $1000 every week and then suddenly had it cut down to $100 he would be complaing too. It's just the fact that Frank is a public figure and the media is going to constantly ask how he feels about it and they are going to print it. It's not like these guys can constantly go around and not say something about it.

They manage to write negative things about Frank when he doesn't talk so he's screwed either way.

rahulsekhar
02-26-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
I was ripping him for being angry that JR invoked the "diminished skills" clause in '02. He signed the contract and he has nothing to complain about.

It's nice to see Frank is taking some responsiblity, but I think that he'd be better off just NOT talking about money with the media anymore.

What's he supposed to say when asked about it? Lie and say "Yeah - I'm thrilled to have a reduced salary"? Offer up a nice fat "No Comment" (Headline: Surly Thomas refuses to talk to reporters, too busy cancer-ing up clubhouse).

Instead, he quite honestly and calmly says that he is unhappy, but that it's not going to be an issue, that he's doing fine, and that he's happy to be in camp and help take this team to the playoffs, and that he doesn't want to leave the Sox.....and that's something to rip him for?

Sheesh. This is exactly the attitude that perpetuates the media-bashing of Frank. Rozner had a great column on this this AM.

Kittle
02-26-2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
First of all, get your facts straight. KW invoked the clause, not JR. It is JR who reworked the deal in order to create a deal where the present value of the contract would give Thomas financial flexibility in the short-term.

Given that JR had the clause put in the contract in the first place (YEARS before KW was working as GM), it can be more strongly argued that JR himself invoked the clause. KW doesn't make any major financial decisions without JR's approval.

Kittle
02-26-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
What's he supposed to say when asked about it? Lie and say "Yeah - I'm thrilled to have a reduced salary"? Offer up a nice fat "No Comment"

Yes. What's wrong with "I don't want to get into that" or "That's water under the bridge. Let's talk about something else"?

I'm not saying that Frank's a bad guy, but his image would be in better shape if he just refused to talk about money to the media. He's already made a bad name for himself by throwing temper tantrums over money. Why even HINT at financial dissatisfaction when he KNOWS that the press wants to make him look surly and money-hungry?

rahulsekhar
02-26-2004, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Kittle


I'm not saying that Frank's a bad guy, but his image would be in better shape if he just refused to talk about money to the media. He's already made a bad name for himself by throwing temper tantrums over money. Why even HINT at financial dissatisfaction when he KNOWS that the press wants to make him look surly and money-hungry.

IMO - that reflects more on Chicago media than on Frank. Especially since if he had declined comment, I'm sure the papers would have been all about how he's "stewing over it" and wondering "when will he erupt, since he's obviously upset enough that he can't talk about it".

He said he's not happy but that' it's not an issue. That should be enough

Kittle
02-26-2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
IMO - that reflects more on Chicago media than on Frank. Especially since if he had declined comment, I'm sure the papers would have been all about how he's "stewing over it" and wondering "when will he erupt, since he's obviously upset enough that he can't talk about it".

He said he's not happy but that' it's not an issue. That should be enough

Why, then, doesn't the Chicago media pick on Maggs, Paulie, Manos, etc.?

I honestly don't understand why the Chicago media is so anti-Frank (because they don't seem to be anti-Maggs and anti-Buehrle). Frank is a bit... er... "frank" (no pun intended) and maybe that gets him into trouble.

However, it doesn't help when Frank throws temper tantrums during Spring Training (i.e., March of '01). Frank does get a raw deal in some cases, but he also brings some of it on himself.

rahulsekhar
02-26-2004, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Kittle


However, it doesn't help when Frank throws temper tantrums during Spring Training (i.e., March of '01). Frank does get a raw deal in some cases, but he also brings some of it on himself.

I'll agree Frank hasn't been the media media-friendly guy, but he's nowhere near the monster he's made out to be. They still refer to the shuttle run/drs note deal, neglecting to mention that he was coming off of major surgery and his dr had indeed recommended that he take it easy. Not exactly like he was slacking. These are the same media mopes who still talk about Frank sitting out with a minor ankle injury - which was in reality a walnut-sized bone spur in his ankle. Writers would be rolling on the ground crying with that and likely wouldnt be able to type their columns, let alone run or hit a ball.

IMO - Frank hasn't helped his cause, but he's been a victim of Chicago the media bias towards those up north as well as the emergence of Steroid Sammy and his kissy kissy ways.

Kittle
02-26-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
I'll agree Frank hasn't been the media media-friendly guy, but he's nowhere near the monster he's made out to be. They still refer to the shuttle run/drs note deal, neglecting to mention that he was coming off of major surgery and his dr had indeed recommended that he take it easy. Not exactly like he was slacking. These are the same media mopes who still talk about Frank sitting out with a minor ankle injury - which was in reality a walnut-sized bone spur in his ankle. Writers would be rolling on the ground crying with that and likely wouldnt be able to type their columns, let alone run or hit a ball.

IMO - Frank hasn't helped his cause, but he's been a victim of Chicago the media bias towards those up north as well as the emergence of Steroid Sammy and his kissy kissy ways.

I agree regarding the media bias (although it really isn't aimed at other Sox players as much).

How about we shut up those ass clowns by kicking some butt this year? :smile:

Deadguy
02-26-2004, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
Given that JR had the clause put in the contract in the first place (YEARS before KW was working as GM), it can be more strongly argued that JR himself invoked the clause. KW doesn't make any major financial decisions without JR's approval.

But KW is the one who invoked the clause, and Thomas' bitterness is primarilly directed at KW, not JR.

JR and Einhorn wanted to discuss the situation with Thomas beforehand, but KW pulled the trigger and the clause, which pissed JR and Einhorn off, and caused Frank public embarassment.

JR stepped in, and worked out a deal that would allow Frank to have a better contract financially in terms of present value. They worked out this deal while KW was midflight somewhere over Florida as he was getting back from a scouting trip from the Dominican Republic.

Upon interacting with JR and EE, and other shareholders of the Sox in a conference call, and learning about the new deal in place with Thomas, KW screamed, "I'll still trade his fat ass"!.

This is primarilly where Thomas' bitterness about the clause being invoked stems from. There is a unprofessional hatred between Thomas and KW, and that feud has leaked a bit into some press clippings, mainly due to the fact that KW can't keep his mouth shut.

Kittle
02-26-2004, 04:56 PM
Frank has no room to complain. He signed a contract with a "diminished skills" clause and proceeded to hit .252 in 2002.

If Frank doesn't like KW, JR, or whoever was responsible for invoking the clause, he never should've signed the contract. He can kiss the organization's collective ass.

End of story.

rahulsekhar
02-26-2004, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy


Upon interacting with JR and EE, and other shareholders of the Sox in a conference call, and learning about the new deal in place with Thomas, KW screamed, "I'll still trade his fat ass"!.



I've seen this posted a couple of times on this board - but no where else. Anyone got a source for that quote?

Kittle
02-26-2004, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
I've seen this posted a couple of times on this board - but no where else. Anyone got a source for that quote?

I'm not debating the validity of this, I find it strange that JR would hand KW that kind of financial power, given how tight he is with money.

Dadawg_77
02-26-2004, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
I'm not debating the validity of this, I find it strange that JR would hand KW that kind of financial power, given how tight he is with money.

JR never seems to be much of a micro manager, giving all the rope Kenny needs, only tighting it when called for. Hopefully JR has given Kenny an enough rope to hang himself with.

sas1974
02-26-2004, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
What are you making this year? Six milliion? Shut the **** up and stop insulting all of us who work even harder for much less.

"But I can't complain about the money I'm making. "

-Frank Thomas, from the article above

ChiSox65
02-26-2004, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
It wasn't enough that Frank reported with no problems, so now the media is trying to put a negative spin on it. Why do they go out of their way to constantly rip Frank?

This is the guy they love to hate.........I listened to Franks interveiw yesterday on the SCORE and he was completely positive, said all the right things and was very congenial. If it was Jordan they would have been kissing his ass in the papers, but there are those still trying to spin their bullcrap about Frank being rotten.

Brian26
02-26-2004, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by steff
Several dozen of us could live VERY WELL off of what Frank has left I'd bet..

Or at least do our laundry over at his house in one of those 37 washing machines!

Kittle
02-26-2004, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
JR never seems to be much of a micro manager, giving all the rope Kenny needs, only tighting it when called for. Hopefully JR has given Kenny an enough rope to hang himself with.

I'm sure that JR gives KW plenty of latitude as far as personnel moves go, but we all know how tight-fisted he is with money. After paying Frank $9 million to sit on the DL for almost all of '01 (when he technically didn't have to), I'm sure that he wasn't happy about paying Frank to put up the relatively weak numbers that he did in '02. If he wants to deflect blame from himself, all he has to do is feed the press a rumor that it was KW's decision. I wouldn't put it past him.