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View Full Version : Frank Thomas: Kudos from a Cubs fan.


Northside fan
02-25-2004, 12:44 AM
As a die-hard Cubs fan, it's hard for me to admit this but I will. I think Thomas has gotten a bad rap from Sox fans and the media. All he has done is put up numbers that most players can only dream about. I have always admired Frank and have always thought that some Sox fans have no clue what they are talking about when they say they wanted to trade him the last few years. You guys should thank your lucky stars that you have been able to watch him all these years and should realize you might NEVER see another player as good as he was in a Sox uniform ever again.. A power hitter with a career .312 batting avg is unfrikin heard of and he gets bashed to no end. Anyway, that is enough Sox kudos for me for the year :)

Meixner007
02-25-2004, 12:49 AM
Oh come on. Most sox fans I know love Franks. It's the media who doesn't get along with him.

munchman33
02-25-2004, 12:59 AM
Frank is, always has been, and always will be my favorite White Sox player. I don't believe the media's portrayal of him.

Northside fan
02-25-2004, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by munchman33
Frank is, always has been, and always will be my favorite White Sox player. I don't believe the media's portrayal of him.

Frank will go to the HOF, take it to the bank. Odalis Perez for Thomas? Some of you guys would make this deal. Me=never.

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
As a die-hard Cubs fan, it's hard for me to admit this but I will. I think Thomas has gotten a bad rap from Sox fans and the media...I have always admired Frank and have always thought that some Sox fans have no clue what they are talking about when they say they wanted to trade him the last few years...he gets bashed to no end...

Really? Please show me an instance where I put down Sox fans. This I gotta see. Facts please, not made up garbage. - Northside Fan

There you go providing the proof.

Where are all these Sox fans who bash Frank and give him a bad rap? "Facts please, not made up garbage."

In my experience, there are certainly NOT many people here who bash Frank. I distinctly remember Frank Thomas getting a standing ovation in his last AB at Comiskey in 2002.

Last year I posted a question in the Cubbie NG and on the Cubbie MLB site asking if they thought Frank Thomas deserved to be in the HOF. The majority of the posts said no, and most bashed Frank. In my experience the people who bash Frank the most are your fellow Cubbie fans.

ChiSox14305635
02-25-2004, 01:29 AM
Very few Sox fans bash Frank. That's usually left for the likes of Mariotti, Steve Rosenbloom, & Phil Rogers.

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 01:40 AM
RESULTS OF MY QUESTION TO CUB FANS, DOES FRANK THOMAS BELONG IN THE HOF?
7 Yes
14 No
15 posts simply mocked Frank.

sas1974
02-25-2004, 01:44 AM
All I can say is, "BULL****!!" There are SEVERAL people on here who were pushing and shoving to be first in line to shove Frank Thomas out of town for Odalis Perez or a prospect or two. People think these Dodgers prospects are the second coming of Nolan Ryan. Guess what....THEY ARE PROSPECTS AND NOTHING MORE. Frank is a HOFer and has a few VERY productive years in him. So those of you better step up and take responsibility for the fact that you've been trying to unload Frank. Don't stand up now and say you love him just because a Cub fan is praising him....Hypocrites!

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by sas1974
All I can say is, "BULL****!!" There are SEVERAL people on here who were pushing and shoving to be first in line to shove Frank Thomas out of town for Odalis Perez or a prospect or two. People think these Dodgers prospects are the second coming of Nolan Ryan. Guess what....THEY ARE PROSPECTS AND NOTHING MORE. Frank is a HOFer and has a few VERY productive years in him. So those of you better step up and take responsibility for the fact that you've been trying to unload Frank. Don't stand up now and say you love him just because a Cub fan is praising him....Hypocrites!

Before you go calling me a hypocrite look-up my recent comments on the proposed Thomas to LA trades.

NorthSide Fans praise of Frank ALSO has a slam on Sox fans and he says NOTHING about the main perpetrators of Frank bashing, Cubbie fans!

sas1974
02-25-2004, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Before you go calling me a hypocrite look-up my recent comments on the proposed Thomas to LA trades.

Hey Doc. I wasn't calling YOU a hypocrite. Not even close. Those people know who they are.

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by sas1974
Hey Doc. I wasn't calling YOU a hypocrite. Not even close. Those people know who they are.

Thanks for the clarification.

IIRC what I've said is, if the Sox were to trade Frank it better damn well be an overwhelming trade for the Sox. If possible, I'd like to see Frank retire with his complete career with the Chicago White Sox.

Rex Hudler
02-25-2004, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
There you go providing the proof.

Where are all these Sox fans who bash Frank and give him a bad rap? "Facts please, not made up garbage."

In my experience, there are certainly NOT many people here who bash Frank. I distinctly remember Frank Thomas getting a standing ovation in his last AB at Comiskey in 2002.

Last year I posted a question in the Cubbie NG and on the Cubbie MLB site asking if they thought Frank Thomas deserved to be in the HOF. The majority of the posts said no, and most bashed Frank. In my experience the people who bash Frank the most are your fellow Cubbie fans.

Doc I roam three Sox message boards and while I wouldn't say that it is a majority, but there are a growing amount of Sox fans that have tired of Frank.

sas1974
02-25-2004, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Thanks for the clarification.

IIRC what I've said is, if the Sox were to trade Frank it better damn well be an overwhelming trade for the Sox. If possible, I'd like to see Frank retire with his complete career with the Chicago White Sox.

I have noticed that you've been leaning that way. My post was directed at the Frank-Haters out there. In my mind, he's the ONLY untouchable major leaguer. Granted I can be small-minded...

SSN721
02-25-2004, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Doc I roam three Sox message boards and while I wouldn't say that it is a majority, but there are a growing amount of Sox fans that have tired of Frank.

I have to agree, I am not one of them, Frank is one of my favorite Sox players of all time, but if you look at all the threads lately about trading Frank or whether to pay him its seems like it is at the very least 25% of the people have no problem losing Frank. I personally dont get it, I want him to finish his career here, the only doubts I ever had is just if he is bad karma since we never seem to win with him on the team. But I dont necessarily beleive that, you cant deny his numbers and I dont want to lose him and take the chance that it wasnt him who was the problem. No way to replace his production for his price this year.

Fisk Fan
02-25-2004, 08:24 AM
Most of the Sox fans I know do not want Frank to be traded. I think we realize that for the first time in a long time, we have the opportunity to have a player go to the HOF as a White Sox player. Not to mention that Frank started his career with the Sox and could end his career with the Sox. That would make a great story in an age where players change teams like they change their underwear and chase the almighty dollar, no matter where it may take them.

Look at the run we made last year. The team went as Frank went. For a stretch of about 20-30 games, Frank was white hot and the team followed him. When he cooled off toward the end of the season, so did the team. Noone else stepped up and took the reigns when Frank could not. I know I speak for a lot of Sox fans when I say that I want Frank to stay in Chicago and end his career with the White Sox. I don't think that Sox fans give Frank a bad rap. I would say that the majority of the negative publicity comes from the Chicago media.

Chrisaway
02-25-2004, 10:56 AM
If the Sox trade Thomas I might stop watching baseball all together. I am grateful to have seen one of the greatest hitters of all time play for my team for the past 13 years. I never paid attention to the media's portrayal of him (it's all Flub biased anyways), just his actions on the field. I don't need some Cub fan coming here telling me what I'm missing cause Frank is one of the reasons I love the game so much.

vegyrex
02-25-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


NorthSide Fans praise of Frank ALSO has a slam on Sox fans and he says NOTHING about the main perpetrators of Frank bashing, Cubbie fans!

You got that right!!

CubKilla
02-25-2004, 12:21 PM
Don't misconstrue a Sox fan being critical of Frank as a Sox fan bashing Frank.

I'm critical of Frank at times. I believe Frank deserves the criticism when I'm dishing it out. I praise Frank at times. I believe Frank deserves the praise when I'm dishing it out.

A SP with a 4+ ERA in the NL for Thomas? Never.

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by vegyrex
You got that right!!

NSF, if he's the baseball fan that he claims to be, why is it hard for him to give Frank credit? NSF admits that what blinds him to Frank's great career is that he's a die-hard Cub fan. Doesn't it make sense that other die-hard Cub fans have a difficult time giving Frank the credit he's due and that these Cub fans might be largely responsible for the bad-rap that Frank has got?

As a die-hard Cubs fan, it's hard for me to admit this but I will. I think Thomas has gotten a bad rap from Sox fans... - NorthSide Fan

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Don't misconstrue a Sox fan being critical of Frank as a Sox fan bashing Frank.

I'm critical of Frank at times. I believe Frank deserves the criticism when I'm dishing it out. I praise Frank at times. I believe Frank deserves the praise when I'm dishing it out.

A SP with a 4+ ERA in the NL for Thomas? Never.

EXACTLY!

Frank Thomas is not only the greatest Sox hitter that I've seen, Frank Thomas is the greatest hitter Chicago has seen in the past 14 years.

Frank Thomas is not a great first baseman, obviously. But I maintain that Frank is not as bad as some would have you believe. Frank is a good receiver and he's a big target for the other infielders. Frank just doesn't have much range and he can't throw. Frank throws a baseball like a tight-end.

This to me is not Frank bashing, just my opinion of his skills and weaknesses.

Northside fan
02-25-2004, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
NSF, if he's the baseball fan that he claims to be, why is it hard for him to give Frank credit?


Crawdad, you seem to have issues. I start a thread to praise Frank Thomas and call him a shoe in for the HOF and you STILL have a beef. I will never hide the fact I'm a Cubs fan. In fact, in one of the very first posts I had on this board I said that I hope the Sox lose every game. I said I love this rivalry and appreciate the Sox fans passion for their team. If you have a problem with that, so be it. I think Frank is great and I have always respected his game. Yeah, I did think it was ridiculous for Sox fans to want to trade him for a mediocre pitcher.

SEALgep
02-25-2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Yeah, I did think it was ridiculous for Sox fans to want to trade him for a mediocre pitcher. There weren't many who felt that way. I surely wasn't in favor of it. You are going to have a broad range of ideas when you discuss items of that nature. I knew Cubs fans who didn't want Maddux signed, and some that dislike Sosa. You get all types, but I wouldn't necessarily conclude the majority of Sox fans, or even a significant amount, wanting a trade like this to go through.

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Crawdad, you seem to have issues. I start a thread to praise Frank Thomas and call him a shoe in for the HOF and you STILL have a beef. I will never hide the fact I'm a Cubs fan. In fact, in one of the very first posts I had on this board I said that I hope the Sox lose every game. I said I love this rivalry and appreciate the Sox fans passion for thier team. If you have a problem with that, so be it. I think Frank is great and I have always respected his game. Yeah, I did think it was ridiculous for Sox fans to want to trade him for a mediocre pitcher.

I bet you were great at dodgeball.

My beef is the digs you've taken at Sox fans. My beef when you say, "Sox fans to want to trade him." SOME Sox fans MAY have wanted to trade Frank, but maybe you could present some FACTS. How many Sox fans were advocating trading Frank? How many were against?

As I've stated too, which you've avoided, if you want to talk about Frank fantastic, but you need to have a discussion amongst your fellow Cubbie fans I believe are the main detractors of Frank.

Northside fan
02-25-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
[B


As I've stated too, which you've avoided, if you want to talk about Frank fantastic, but you need to have a discussion amongst your fellow Cubbie fans I believe are the main detractors of Frank. [/B]

So because other Cubs fans have issues with Frank and I do not, you call ME OUT ON IT? Very logical and sensible.

Iwritecode
02-25-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
I bet you were great at dodgeball.

My beef is the digs you've taken at Sox fans. My beef when you say, "Sox fans to want to trade him." SOME Sox fans MAY have wanted to trade Frank, but maybe you could present some FACTS. How many Sox fans were advocating trading Frank? How many were against?

As I've stated too, which you've avoided, if you want to talk about Frank fantastic, but you need to have a discussion amongst your fellow Cubbie fans I believe are the main detractors of Frank.

Doc, I think you are reading a little too much into this. In his first statement in this thread he said:

"I think Thomas has gotten a bad rap from Sox fans and the media."

I'll agree with that statement as far as the media goes but there aren't a whole lot of Sox fans that don't like Frank and want him gone.

I will admit however that they do exist. I've seen it a few times on here. A Sox fan will talk about how Frank is a clubhouse cancer and needs to be traded for whatever they can get, blah blah blah...

I don't think he meant ALL Sox fans are like that. That seems to be how you are taking it...

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
There weren't many who felt that way. I surely wasn't in favor of it. You are going to have a broad range of ideas when you discuss items of that nature. I knew Cubs fans who didn't want Maddux signed, and some that dislike Sosa. You get all types, but I wouldn't necessarily conclude the majority of Sox fans, or even a significant amount, wanting a trade like this to go through.

Great points SEALgep! I wasn't advocating trading Frank either.

Sox fans are not the main source of trouble for Frank Thomas. Sox fans, in general, are not bashing Frank. NSF has produced nothing to support his dig on Sox fans, other than his opinion.

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Doc, I think you are reading a little too much into this. In his first statement in this thread he said:

"I think Thomas has gotten a bad rap from Sox fans and the media."

I'll agree with that statement as far as the media goes but there aren't a whole lot of Sox fans that don't like Frank and want him gone.

I will admit however that they do exist. I've seen it a few times on here. A Sox fan will talk about how Frank is a clubhouse cancer and needs to be traded for whatever they can get, blah blah blah...

I don't think he meant ALL Sox fans are like that. That seems to be how you are taking it...

My point is though that Frank has NOT gotten a bad rap from Sox fans. Sure some have bashed Frank, but not most.

NSF, as I've pointed out before, loves to get his little digs in on Sox fans. If NSF doesn't mean all or most Sox fans then he should make that clear. When he says, 'Sox fans bash Frank.' That to me means all or most, an indictment on Sox fans in general.

24thStFan
02-25-2004, 01:43 PM
If you want to learn who the real Frank-Haters are, check out this Moronotti article. This from the same guy who NEVER mentions Shamme when he writes an article about steroid use. Fair and balanced my ###!

http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay25.html

Fungo
02-25-2004, 02:00 PM
When I'm watching a game at home and scream at the TV..."come'on Frank you big SOB"...I mean that in a loving way.

RichFitztightly
02-25-2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
My point is though that Frank has NOT gotten a bad rap from Sox fans. Sure some have bashed Frank, but not most.

NSF, as I've pointed out before, loves to get his little digs in on Sox fans. If NSF doesn't mean all or most Sox fans then he should make that clear. When he says, 'Sox fans bash Frank.' That to me means all or most, an indictment on Sox fans in general.

I don't think it's as lovey-dovey as you want to portay it. A lot of Sox fans have given Frank quite a hard time. I was at 95% of the games last year and about 50% of the games the year before. I can remember countless times where the fans booed Frank after he fought off a tough pitch that turned into an out. Shortly there after, there were chants of "Paulie Paulie" when Konerko was up despite his .095 batting average and penchant for hitting into Double Plays. It seemed to me a lot of the Boo's were undeserved.

Now it's possible that the fans hold Frank up to a higher standard than Konerko. That's something I respect. However, I don't think booing him is a way to convey that message.

Iwritecode
02-25-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
My point is though that Frank has NOT gotten a bad rap from Sox fans. Sure some have bashed Frank, but not most.

NSF, as I've pointed out before, loves to get his little digs in on Sox fans. If NSF doesn't mean all or most Sox fans then he should make that clear. When he says, 'Sox fans bash Frank.' That to me means all or most, an indictment on Sox fans in general.

I can see where youíre coming from and I guess itís just a matter of perspective. While I agree he could have been clearer, I didnít take it as a slam on all or most Sox fans.

Just one question, do you take exception to this post because it from a Cubs fan? Would you react the same if a Sox fan made the exact same post?

Deadguy
02-25-2004, 02:40 PM
I don't understand why so many people are jumping down NSF's throat. He posted a relatively inflammatory post praising one of our players, and he still gets attacked.

And for the most part, his claims that Sox fans have been cruel to FT for parts of his career are rather valid. I was at a game in 1997 when Frank was hitting over. 350, and he got booed for grounding into a double play. I was also at a game in 2002 where he was booed every time he stepped to the plate.

There are a large number of Frank haters, despite what jabrch claims, but of course when things are going well, they aren't as vocal. I remember during the off season of 1999, I couldn't talk to a White Sox fan that didn't have something negative to say about FT. Its amazing that in July of 2000, I couldn't find a Sox fan that had anything bad to say about FT. The bottomline is that people are fickle, and if Thomas produces well, he will be liked by a majority of the fan base. If he struggles, he will be disliked by a majority of the fanbase. There's always going to be a group of hardcore Frank haters or Frankophiles who will feel the same regardless.

SoxFan76
02-25-2004, 04:52 PM
I do find something wrong with NSF's post. You wanted to be serious and give Frank some credit. I respect that, but in the process you couldn't help but put little sarcastic comments ripping Sox fans. I notice that from every Cubs fan, and every newspaper article. Somebody always takes a little jab at Sox fans no matter what the situation is. The VAST majority of Sox fans are huge Frank fans, and have followed him since he came into the league. I don't know what I would do if Frank ever left the White Sox, and deep down I know Frank doesn't want to leave either regardless of what he says. A lot of us younger Sox fans have only known Frank with the White Sox. To us, (or atleast to me), he is the team. I didn't follow baseball when I was younger, but you better believe I knew who Frank Thomas was. So when you say Sox fans rip on Frank, check what you are saying. A small percentage of Sox fans want him gone. And they generally don't know what they are talking about. Lets get rid of a 40+ HR 100+ RBI guy for a pitcher with an ERA above 4. Like the good Dr. said earlier, Cub fans rip on Frank. Try to read the Trib without seeing a smart ass comment. Sox fans are not the problem.

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 05:08 PM
As a die-hard Sox fan, it's hard for me to admit this but I will. I think Sosa has gotten a bad rap from ignorant Cub fans. All Sosa's done is put up great slugging numbers the last few years. But that doesn't satisfy stupid Cub fans. No they booed Sosa last year, before the cork bat incident, booed Sosa at Cub Convention for God sakes! Sosa's filled The Shrine for years and that's the gratitude he's shown by Cub fans? I have always thought that Sosa is one helluva slugger, but Cub fans are clueless. Cub fans should thank their lucky stars that Sosa fell into their lap, you MIGHT NEVER see a player as good as him again, you ingrates.

I can't see why if I, as a Sox fan, posted this message on a Cubs board, it wouldn't be celebrated by Cub fans. Heck, if someone objected I could always say, "Hey some have issues and just can't take when I compliment Sosa."

Northside fan
02-25-2004, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
I do find something wrong with NSF's post. You wanted to be serious and give Frank some credit. I respect that, but in the process you couldn't help but put little sarcastic comments ripping Sox fans.


SF76, I do the same to Cubs fans as well when they propose something ridiculous. Certainly not all Sox fans want him gone but there were many that did and I'm not talking just about this site. Again, this post is more about my feelings for Thomas then it is about Sox fans. I like Frank and lets leave it at that. That said, here's hoping he grounds in to a bunch of double plays this year :)

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Crawdad, you seem to have issues. I start a thread to praise Frank Thomas and call him a shoe in for the HOF and you STILL have a beef...

NSF, stick to the issues. I don't believe that I've yet attacked you personally. I have challenged what you've posted here, not regarding why you as a Cub fan post here and what that says about you as a person. However, when you post things that I feel have digs against Sox fans, even if it's sandwiched in a compliment, I'll point that out. Deal with it and keep your pop psychology to yourself.

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
I do find something wrong with NSF's post. You wanted to be serious and give Frank some credit. I respect that, but in the process you couldn't help but put little sarcastic comments ripping Sox fans. I notice that from every Cubs fan, and every newspaper article. Somebody always takes a little jab at Sox fans no matter what the situation is. The VAST majority of Sox fans are huge Frank fans, and have followed him since he came into the league. I don't know what I would do if Frank ever left the White Sox, and deep down I know Frank doesn't want to leave either regardless of what he says. A lot of us younger Sox fans have only known Frank with the White Sox. To us, (or atleast to me), he is the team. I didn't follow baseball when I was younger, but you better believe I knew who Frank Thomas was. So when you say Sox fans rip on Frank, check what you are saying. A small percentage of Sox fans want him gone. And they generally don't know what they are talking about. Lets get rid of a 40+ HR 100+ RBI guy for a pitcher with an ERA above 4. Like the good Dr. said earlier, Cub fans rip on Frank. Try to read the Trib without seeing a smart ass comment. Sox fans are not the problem.

Thank-you, very well said.

Northside fan
02-25-2004, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
NSF
I have challenged what you've posted here, not regarding why you as a Cub fan post here and what that says about you as a person.


What that says about me as a person? What does that say about MR know it all? This from a guy who says HE POSTS at cubs sites? Crawdad, you are a hypocrite. Seriously, if you do not want me to post here anymore, just say it. I'll be happy to leave.

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Crawdad, you seem to have issues....

Originally posted by DrCrawdad
NSF, stick to the issues. I don't believe that I've yet attacked you personally. I have challenged what you've posted here, NOT regarding why you as a Cub fan post here and what that says about you as a person. However, when you post things that I feel have digs against Sox fans, even if it's sandwiched in a compliment, I'll point that out. Deal with it and keep your pop psychology to yourself.

My point being, unlike you, I've avoided the pop psychology. I never said, nor did I mean to imply, that you as a Cubbie fan should not post here or that's wrong for you to do so.

Originally posted by Northside fan
What that says about me as a person? What does that say about MR know it all? This from a guy who says HE POSTS at cubs sites? Crawdad, you are a hypocrite. Seriously, if you do not want me to post here anymore, just say it. I'll be happy to leave.

I have posted and will continue to post on Cub sites where and when I like, although it is fairly infrequent. That said, when I venture into Cubbie territory I tread carefully and try to avoid generalizations about Cub fans.

Please note what I said, I was asking you to avoid the personal attacks against me. I ask that people treat me in the way I treat them.

I've asked you before to discuss the points and not to get into personal attacks. Apparently that's not what you're gonna do. So post here all you like, from now on though you're on my ignore list. Me and what you've described as my "issues" are moving on.

Congratulations! You're the first on my ignore list.

DrCrawdad
02-25-2004, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
I can see where youíre coming from and I guess itís just a matter of perspective. While I agree he could have been clearer, I didnít take it as a slam on all or most Sox fans.

Just one question, do you take exception to this post because it from a Cubs fan? Would you react the same if a Sox fan made the exact same post?

What do they say about people of an ethnic group being able to say things about their ethnic group but if that same thing had been said by a person from outside their ethnic group it would start a fight. I think the same goes for Cubs/Sox stuff and where you post it.

I've read many comments from Cubbie fans complaining about drunks at The Shrine. What do you think the response would be if I went and said, hey I'm a Sox fan and then proceeded to say in effect the same thing? It would start a barrage of White Sox insults.

AMestan
02-25-2004, 08:05 PM
I could care less about what a Cub fan thinks. Listening to a cub fan is like reading moranetti or telander. Politically correct A#S H*&$'S. Don't cub fans have other things to do (like play with themselves) besides surfing WSI?


Hey cub fan are you fired up about the big auction for the foul ball? You people are SIMPLE!

ChiSox14305635
02-25-2004, 10:53 PM
I think part of the reason why Frank has gotten such a bad rap over the past couple of years can be attributed to this love affair with the home run. With all due respect to what Sosa/McGwire/Bonds have done with all of their home run achievements, I think the home run has been somewhat deflated in value. When Brady Anderson could hit 50 home runs out of the leadoff spot, that's telling you the ball must be as tightly wound as possible. Wasn't it at some point 2 or 3 years ago that there were 17 players with 40 HR or more in one season? And notice when the steroid issue became a hot topic last year with the admissions by Canseco and Caminiti, my how the longballs dropped! You want achievement? Thomas hitting 41 in '93 & 38 in a strike shortened year in what, until recently had been a pitcher's ballpark. Sosa's career high until '98 was only 40, and most of those were hit at the best hitter's ballpark this side of Fenway. I think after the strike, because so many fans were lost, that MLB, the MLBPA, and the owners needed something to draw the fans back. The home run has always been considered one of the most exciting plays in baseball. So they tighten up the ball. Turn a blind eye when a player comes in looking unusually bigger than the year before. Shorten the fences. Any edge that would increase the number of homers and fans. What ultimately bothers me is the media and baseball writers like Gammons and Kurjkian who got swallowed up and started believing this crap. Thomas has a career .312 batting average and over 400 homers, but because he didn't juice up like some players did, his HOF chances aren't secure? I think that's garbage.

Make no mistake: Sammy Sosa/Mark McGwire & Barry Bonds are terrific power hitters. Frank Thomas is a complete offensive player. The true baseball purists will tell you the complete player always is the one you want in the clutch, not those who can hit a ball 500 feet but will strikeout 150 times in the process. And while I know Bonds isn't that type of player, I can remember the early '90s when he was.

Frank's pr gaffes have not always been the smartest, but his numbers over his career can not be questioned. He has been one of the most consistent players in his career, period.

A. Cavatica
02-25-2004, 11:44 PM
NSF, I re-read your first post, and I didn't find anything there to take offense at.

I'm a Sox fan, believe Frank is the best hitter in Sox history, would never trade him straight up for Odalis Perez, but would trade him -- hell, would trade anybody -- if I got enough in return.

My father's credentials as a Sox fan outstrip mine (75 years, no championship) and he's had enough of Frank. I don't understand it, but he's entitled to feel that way. And there are plenty who agree with him.

So yes, I agree that Frank has gotten a bad rap from Sox fans and the media. You didn't say all Sox fans, and I don't think you implied it -- so I don't get what the fuss is about.

And DrCrawdad, this is out of character for you! Of all the posts to let under your skin, you pick this one...?

vegyrex
02-26-2004, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
I'll be happy to leave.

Good. :smile: :D:

red faber
02-26-2004, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
As a die-hard Cubs fan, it's hard for me to admit this but I will. I think Thomas has gotten a bad rap from Sox fans and the media. All he has done is put up numbers that most players can only dream about. I have always admired Frank and have always thought that some Sox fans have no clue what they are talking about when they say they wanted to trade him the last few years. You guys should thank your lucky stars that you have been able to watch him all these years and should realize you might NEVER see another player as good as he was in a Sox uniform ever again.. A power hitter with a career .312 batting avg is unfrikin heard of and he gets bashed to no end. Anyway, that is enough Sox kudos for me for the year :)


on come on now,do you think that we bash big frank for absolutely NO reason???????

a lot of big frank's wounds are self-inflicted,because he says things that make him look liks a big idiot,and because he says things that make him look like a big,overgrown,petulant brat.

like for instance,a few years ago he whined about a-rod making 25 million and he hmiself was making 9 million.i mean what...did he expect us to feel sorry for him and his plight????.did he expect us to sympathize with him and his percieved lack of pay or something.

i want him to end his career as a white sox,but he has to change that attitude.

unlike you cubs fans,we don't make excuses for our players comments and missteps.

MarqSox
02-26-2004, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
As a die-hard Cubs fan, it's hard for me to admit this but I will. I think Thomas has gotten a bad rap from Sox fans and the media. All he has done is put up numbers that most players can only dream about. I have always admired Frank and have always thought that some Sox fans have no clue what they are talking about when they say they wanted to trade him the last few years. You guys should thank your lucky stars that you have been able to watch him all these years and should realize you might NEVER see another player as good as he was in a Sox uniform ever again.. A power hitter with a career .312 batting avg is unfrikin heard of and he gets bashed to no end. Anyway, that is enough Sox kudos for me for the year :)
I think it's a vocal minority who want Frank gone. Probably 80% of Sox fans love the guy and want to hold onto him for the duration of his career.

voodoochile
02-26-2004, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by red faber
on come on now,do you think that we bash big frank for absolutely NO reason???????

a lot of big frank's wounds are self-inflicted,because he says things that make him look liks a big idiot,and because he says things that make him look like a big,overgrown,petulant brat.

like for instance,a few years ago he whined about a-rod making 25 million and he hmiself was making 9 million.i mean what...did he expect us to feel sorry for him and his plight????.did he expect us to sympathize with him and his percieved lack of pay or something.

i want him to end his career as a white sox,but he has to change that attitude.

unlike you cubs fans,we don't make excuses for our players comments and missteps.

And why should we? I mean none of these overpaid spoiled whiney idiots is actually a human being. I love to watch them fail so I can rail on them for failing to live up to my standards. Of course, Frank deserves a special chapter in my hating book because he is only the best player to ever wear the Sox uniform and thus cannot possibly live up to the expectations he generates in me year after year. The minute he says something stupid or does something silly, I just salivate at the prospect of ripping on the big man. Jay Moronotti is my hero...

:whoflungpoo