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Dadawg_77
02-24-2004, 02:49 PM
http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2594

1. Joe Mauer, C, Minnesota
2. Jeremy Reed, OF, Chicago (AL)

poorme
02-24-2004, 02:51 PM
Wow. I never considered him the #2 prospect in baseball, but I sure hope he really is THAT good.

SEALgep
02-24-2004, 02:57 PM
Plate discipline is the key. To be an outfielder with little power or exuberant speed and be rated the number two best prospect is saying something. Plate discipline usually translates success at any level, and if he maintains it, then he should be a successful major leaguer. I'm looking forward to letting him prove it either way. He is certainly ahead of the curve and I believe will indeed turn into a major contributor for us soon enough.

PaulDrake
02-24-2004, 02:59 PM
I got in more trouble arguing prospects here than arguing politics. Nevertheless it seems like our cupboard is rather bare in the minors. What a difference three or four years makes.

jeremyb1
02-24-2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Plate discipline is the key. To be an outfielder with little power or exuberant speed and be rated the number two best prospect is saying something. Plate discipline usually translates success at any level, and if he maintains it, then he should be a successful major leaguer. I'm looking forward to letting him prove it either way. He is certainly ahead of the curve and I believe will indeed turn into a major contributor for us soon enough.

To say Reed has little power is incorrect in my opinion. His SLG was near .500. He hit a ton of doubles.

munchman33
02-24-2004, 09:57 PM
I'm surprised (and thrilled) that the Cubs don't have a single player in the top fifty (though they do have some honorable mentions).

Randar68
02-24-2004, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
To say Reed has little power is incorrect in my opinion. His SLG was near .500. He hit a ton of doubles.

I won't comment on this except to say, when you hit nearly .400 across multiple levels of the minors, and your slg% is only in the low .500's, you're not displaying a lot of power....

SoxxoS
02-24-2004, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
I got in more trouble arguing prospects here than arguing politics. Nevertheless it seems like our cupboard is rather bare in the minors. What a difference three or four years makes.

We were loaded 4 years ago, and we produced a lot of QUANTITY, but not a lot of QUALITY.

I would rather produce quality occasionally than constant Danny Wrights...

SEALgep
02-25-2004, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
To say Reed has little power is incorrect in my opinion. His SLG was near .500. He hit a ton of doubles. Oh ya, he does, he hits them mostly in the gaps. I didn't mean it as a knock on him, I think he is going to be a very good player. I'm just saying don't expect a whole ton of homeruns.

Rex Hudler
02-25-2004, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I won't comment on this except to say, when you hit nearly .400 across multiple levels of the minors, and your slg% is only in the low .500's, you're not displaying a lot of power....

Not HR power, no. But he had 27 extra base hits in 242 AB's in Birmingham, which is not a bad rate. I believe he will develop more power 3-4 years from now. He eventually could develop into a very solid #3 hitter, but for now, he is perfectly suited for the two-hole.

SoxxoS
02-25-2004, 01:18 AM
Everyone takes this power thing too far. Borchard has "Light Tower Power" and Reed passed him up like he was standing still.

I heard that guy Tony Gywnn was a pretty good hitter with not much power...so it is possible.

Dadawg_77
02-25-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I won't comment on this except to say, when you hit nearly .400 across multiple levels of the minors, and your slg% is only in the low .500's, you're not displaying a lot of power....

True, but his power numbers are good for a 22 year old. He still could develop a lot more power in the next couple of years.

doublem23
02-25-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Everyone takes this power thing too far. Borchard has "Light Tower Power" and Reed passed him up like he was standing still.


A wrist injury will derail a hitter's season.

poorme
02-25-2004, 11:25 AM
If I recall, Ventura hit like 8 homers in his only full year in the minors.

Randar68
02-25-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Not HR power, no. But he had 27 extra base hits in 242 AB's in Birmingham, which is not a bad rate. I believe he will develop more power 3-4 years from now. He eventually could develop into a very solid #3 hitter, but for now, he is perfectly suited for the two-hole.

I agree 100%. I was simply pointing out that a .500 SLG% doesn't mean much when a guy hits .400.

SoxxoS
02-25-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
A wrist injury will derail a hitter's season.

If it was that bad...SIT OUT!

Randar68
02-25-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
If it was that bad...SIT OUT!

Wow, I never knew it was that black and white... Thanks for setting it straight for all of us

SoxxoS
02-25-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Wow, I never knew it was that black and white... Thanks for setting it straight for all of us

Come on now Randar, you are better than this. It is black and white. If you are trying to get on the fast track to the major leagues, which is obviously Borchards and the Sox concern, playing with a wrist injury is not the way to do it. If it really was that bad (which I have my doubts) then why wouldn't he sit out.

a)He wanted to prove he can play through pain. (Admirable but not smart

b)He didn't want to go on the DL to make it to the bigs (which is really dumb b/c he wasn't able to hit the ball, and therefore wasn't going to help the club anyway).

Either one doesn't make much sense. If it was really bothering him, he has to sit out to come back healthy...rather than actually be a DETRAMENT to the Sox and himself.

Randar68
02-25-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Come on now Randar, you are better than this. It is black and white. If you are trying to get on the fast track to the major leagues, which is obviously Borchards and the Sox concern, playing with a wrist injury is not the way to do it. If it really was that bad (which I have my doubts) then why wouldn't he sit out.

a)He wanted to prove he can play through pain. (Admirable but not smart

b)He didn't want to go on the DL to make it to the bigs (which is really dumb b/c he wasn't able to hit the ball, and therefore wasn't going to help the club anyway).

Either one doesn't make much sense. If it was really bothering him, he has to sit out to come back healthy...rather than actually be a DETRAMENT to the Sox and himself.


Do you think that perhaps:
1) if it is not causing overhwleming pain, then play through it
2) Perhaps there are lessons and thing to be learned from the experience
3) if he sits out, some will call him soft
4) do you think he or the Sox care what some fans on a message board think about his performance last year?
5) neither you nor I have any idea what is in the player's best interests...

Sorry, it is not black and white. It wasn't a rotator cuff tear for a pitcher. He wasn't making it worse by playing and it wasn't causing him a ton of pain.

Randar68
02-25-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Either one doesn't make much sense. If it was really bothering him, he has to sit out to come back healthy...rather than actually be a DETRAMENT to the Sox and himself.

Explain to me how playing through an injury in AAA is a detriment to the White Sox.

SoxxoS
02-25-2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Explain to me how playing through an injury in AAA is a detriment to the White Sox.

He didn't play the whole year in AAA. Him coming up to the majors and hitting below his weight, that is a detriment. detrament. whatever.

SoxxoS
02-25-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Do you think that perhaps:
1) if it is not causing overwhelming pain, then play through it
2) Perhaps there are lessons and thing to be learned from the experience
3) if he sits out, some will call him soft
4) do you think he or the Sox care what some fans on a message board think about his performance last year?
5) neither you nor I have any idea what is in the player's best interests...

Sorry, it is not black and white. It wasn't a rotator cuff tear for a pitcher. He wasn't making it worse by playing and it wasn't causing him a ton of pain.

1)Overwhelming pain is not the issue. His wrist was allegedly bothering him. OK. Shouldn't he realize it's in everyones best intrest to get 100%? I am not a doctor, but playing through tendonitis can't be healthy. The only place I read about these wrist problems seems to be on these boards, I have yet to read an article about it. But I will search after I am done.

2)What lessons are to be learned? Not to play through pain?

3)He can't care what other people think. Now people are calling him a "bust" that is far worse than "soft."

4)No. But you are contradicting yourself b/c point #3, you mention some people might call him soft. I thought he shouldn't worry about what Sox fans think?

5)Agreed.

You said earlier that "wrist tendonitis" can affect a players power. So now it means something again?

Randar68
02-25-2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
You said earlier that "wrist tendonitis" can affect a players power. So now it means something again?

I did not say any such thing previously, but it is undoubtedly true.

Randar68
02-25-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
2)What lessons are to be learned? Not to play through pain?


Lower bat-speed will force you to get all the holes in your swing ironed out to try to make up for it. May also help develop a better eye at the plate, forcing him to try to recognize the pitch earlier due to slower reaction time...

Pitchers who have gone through shoulder and elbow surgeries almost universally say they come out of it with a better understanding of pitching instead of throwing.

maurice
02-25-2004, 03:31 PM
Also keep in mind that LTP was a football player and probably has the football mentality that one ought to play injured, rather than rest and recover.

rdivaldi
02-25-2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
I got in more trouble arguing prospects here than arguing politics. Nevertheless it seems like our cupboard is rather bare in the minors. What a difference three or four years makes.

I can't agree with that statement, we have quite a few prospects that are held in high regard. Many are still in the lower levels of the minors so they don't get as much pub as guys in AA and AAA.

Considering how poorly our supposed great minor league system of 2000-2001 produced solid major leaguers, I'd say very little has changed in the past three or four years.

MarkEdward
02-25-2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS

I heard that guy Tony Gywnn was a pretty good hitter with not much power...so it is possible.

Actually, Gwynn did have some power. He was top ten in slugging percentage twice in his career, top ten in doubles six times, top ten in triples six times, top ten in extra-base hits once, as well as top ten in power/speed number once. His career slugging percentage is .459, where the league slugged only .399 during that time. Now, if you're looking for a good hitter with little power, Brett Butler would be your man.

We should probably wait a few years before comparing Gwynn to Jeremy Reed, though.

SoxxoS
03-01-2004, 12:39 AM
Just an FYI, there was a huge article in the Sun-Times today about Borchard, and there was no mention of wrist tendonitis, even by the writer.