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ChiSox14305635
02-22-2004, 10:21 PM
LA Rejects Big Hurt

New Dodgers GM Paul DePodesta scuttled the Frank Thomas-Odalis Perez deal that was in place before he was hired, telling people Thomas is "an AL player." The new idea might be to try to redo the deal, substituting Paul Konerko, though his $8-million salary is rich for the Dodgers' new pauper owner, Frank McCourt . . . There's word that Dodgers scouting director Logan White could be in trouble, odd given that "the Dodgers have the best prospects of anyone," one NL exec said ... Former Yankees exec Kim

Ng has been asked to return by DePodesta.

Brian26
02-22-2004, 10:39 PM
What a moronic statement in the year 2004. There's no such thing as an NL or AL player anymore. With 20 games on interleague play every year and the amount of player movement between the leagues, how can you label anyone as an AL or NL player?

Anyway, good news for us. I want to see Frank hit #500 here and end his career as with the Sox.

MRKARNO
02-22-2004, 10:41 PM
Basically, Depodesta is saying that he doubts Frank's ability to be an everyday first-basemen

Deadguy
02-22-2004, 11:01 PM
Terrific! Their loss is our gain.

StepsInSC
02-22-2004, 11:10 PM
Woo Woo Woo. Best non-news of the off-season.

depy48
02-22-2004, 11:21 PM
i really hope frank ends up as a lifelong whitesox

mike squires
02-22-2004, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
Woo Woo Woo. Best non-news of the off-season.

I would as well, but it is unlikely. Look at all the drama that has taken place in just the last few. Franks got what 4 to 5 years left. Something will happen between now and then. :(:

SoxxoS
02-22-2004, 11:46 PM
We should pay some of Konerko's salary to get him out.

SEALgep
02-22-2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
LA Rejects Big Hurt

New Dodgers GM Paul DePodesta scuttled the Frank Thomas-Odalis Perez deal that was in place before he was hired, telling people Thomas is "an AL player." The new idea might be to try to redo the deal, substituting Paul Konerko, though his $8-million salary is rich for the Dodgers' new pauper owner, Frank McCourt . . . There's word that Dodgers scouting director Logan White could be in trouble, odd given that "the Dodgers have the best prospects of anyone," one NL exec said ... Former Yankees exec Kim

Ng has been asked to return by DePodesta. I question this article. DePosta may have said Frank is an AL guy, which doesn't really bother me either way, but I'm not so sure a deal was in place for him for Perez straight up, or at all. The fact that $8 million is too rich for their blood for the same deal with Konerko doesn't make much sense due to Frank also making $8 million if he were to be traded. Whatever I guess, I just hope if it is true, that it doesn't leave a bad taste in Frank's mouth. If Frank comes back happy and glad to be staying with the Sox, I could really care a less either way. We'll see soon enough. :smile:

mike squires
02-22-2004, 11:48 PM
ooops, i meant to quote the one above it on my previous ppost.

SEALgep
02-22-2004, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
We should pay some of Konerko's salary to get him out. At this point I would rather keep him. I think he is going to rebound, and his defense is pretty good. Limited range, but limited errors as well. Led the AL with a .998 fielding percentage last year. I think we have a lot of wild card pitchers (who some look to be pretty good) going for the fifth spot, and I'm fine with trying the runner up to fill any hole- injury (temporary/long term), spot start, whatever- rather than giving up Paulie and money for Perez.

chisox06
02-23-2004, 12:00 AM
Thats a shame, I think Im one of the few around here that wouldn't mind one bit seein Frank playing somewhere else. Dont get me wrong, I realize hes one of the best players ever to wear a sox uniform, but Im just so sick of this guy's attitude already. If I complained about my teamates, bitched about my salary, and didn't return my bosses phone calls for 5 months I dont think I would have a job for too much longer, no matter how good I was at it. The fact that Frank is a grown man and you have to talk to him like a fourth grader, consistantly disrupts the clubhouse, thinks he needs to be treated differently then the rest of his teamates, are more than enough reasons for me to not be over joyed by Frank the time bomb coming back to the southside. Wednesday should be very interesting.

Brian26
02-23-2004, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by chisox06
If I complained about my teamates, bitched about my salary, and didn't return my bosses phone calls for 5 months I dont think I would have a job for too much longer, no matter how good I was at it.

But we're not baseball players.

And truth be told, Frank's on-field talent and ability really has nothing to do with his supposed complaining, bitching, or returning of phone calls.

Leave the guy alone and let him play here to end his career.

MRKARNO
02-23-2004, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by chisox06
Thats a shame, I think Im one of the few around here that wouldn't mind one bit seein Frank playing somewhere else. Dont get me wrong, I realize hes one of the best players ever to wear a sox uniform, but Im just so sick of this guy's attitude already. If I complained about my teamates, bitched about my salary, and didn't return my bosses phone calls for 5 months I dont think I would have a job for too much longer, no matter how good I was at it. The fact that Frank is a grown man and you have to talk to him like a fourth grader, consistantly disrupts the clubhouse, thinks he needs to be treated differently then the rest of his teamates, are more than enough reasons for me to not be over joyed by Frank the time bomb coming back to the southside. Wednesday should be very interesting.

Let me just say that you're not among the majority here

chisox06
02-23-2004, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
But we're not baseball players.

And truth be told, Frank's on-field talent and ability really has nothing to do with his supposed complaining, bitching, or returning of phone calls.

Leave the guy alone and let him play here to end his career.

Good point, but Frank gets paid to play baseball, and along with that comes certain responsibilites off the field, and unlike 99% of the rest of the player in this league I guess Frank feels he can just do what he wants. But hey if he puts up the numbers I guess thats all you can ask.

StillMissOzzie
02-23-2004, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
What a moronic statement in the year 2004. There's no such thing as an NL or AL player anymore. With 20 games on interleague play every year and the amount of player movement between the leagues, how can you label anyone as an AL or NL player?



I disagree with you here, although I'm glad they feel this way about Frank. There are no NL counterparts to guys like Edgar Martinez, who hasn't played in the field for God knows how long.

SMO

SSN721
02-23-2004, 07:19 AM
I just have to say, I personally think this is great news. One step closer to Frank finishing his career here, which I would love to see. And also saves KW the trouble of finding a way to replace his offense so close to the start of the season. Just hope KWs dislike of Frank doesnt force him into a bad trade while Frank is still this productive.

gosox41
02-23-2004, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
LA Rejects Big Hurt

New Dodgers GM Paul DePodesta scuttled the Frank Thomas-Odalis Perez deal that was in place before he was hired, telling people Thomas is "an AL player." The new idea might be to try to redo the deal, substituting Paul Konerko, though his $8-million salary is rich for the Dodgers' new pauper owner, Frank McCourt . . . There's word that Dodgers scouting director Logan White could be in trouble, odd given that "the Dodgers have the best prospects of anyone," one NL exec said ... Former Yankees exec Kim

Ng has been asked to return by DePodesta.

I'm glad. Depodesta is dead wrong about Frank. I bet Frank can play 150 games a year at 1B. He may not win any gold gloves but he'll be find. I'd DH PK in a second and put Frank at 1B if I were GM.

Bob

gosox41
02-23-2004, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by chisox06
Good point, but Frank gets paid to play baseball, and along with that comes certain responsibilites off the field, and unlike 99% of the rest of the player in this league I guess Frank feels he can just do what he wants. But hey if he puts up the numbers I guess thats all you can ask.

I'd say that number is a little high. There are plenty of big egos in the game who don't help the team off the field. All that matters is Frank is ready to play on the field and he peforms well. Do you think Aaron Boone is a more selfish player then Frank? What about Jeff Kent or even Aaron Rowand?

Bob

SEALgep
02-23-2004, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I'm glad. Depodesta is dead wrong about Frank. I bet Frank can play 150 games a year at 1B. He may not win any gold gloves but he'll be find. I'd DH PK in a second and put Frank at 1B if I were GM.

Bob KW has made it clear all this types of decisions rest solely of Guillen and his staff. However, I'm not opposed to giving Frank some time at first. PK in my opinion should be playing first, but he'll need rest. There's also Gload.

Kittle
02-23-2004, 09:57 AM
How is Frank "an AL player?" If that's a shot at his defensive skills, then I disagree. Frank's not THAT bad at 1B. He's a big target and does a good job of scooping balls out of the dirt. His only weakness is his throwing, but that only becomes an issue when, say, a 3-4 double play opportunity arises. That doesn't happen enough to conclude that his defense would hamper a team if he was the every day first baseman.

My feeling is that the Dodgers are just being cheap. If they have the pitching depth to deal Perez, they'd be getting the better end of the deal.

As much as I'd like more pitching, I'm not disappointed that this deal fell through.

Deadguy
02-23-2004, 10:29 AM
Hopefully we can trick Mr. Harvard into taking on Konerko.

They've got definite problems next year.

2003 Dodgers scored 574 Runs.

2003 Kittens scored 591 Runs.

Good luck finishing above .500.

Dadawg_77
02-23-2004, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by chisox06
Thats a shame, I think Im one of the few around here that wouldn't mind one bit seein Frank playing somewhere else. Dont get me wrong, I realize hes one of the best players ever to wear a sox uniform, but Im just so sick of this guy's attitude already. If I complained about my teamates, bitched about my salary, and didn't return my bosses phone calls for 5 months I dont think I would have a job for too much longer, no matter how good I was at it. The fact that Frank is a grown man and you have to talk to him like a fourth grader, consistantly disrupts the clubhouse, thinks he needs to be treated differently then the rest of his teamates, are more than enough reasons for me to not be over joyed by Frank the time bomb coming back to the southside. Wednesday should be very interesting.

It depends on how easily the company can replace your production.

jeremyb1
02-23-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I'm glad. Depodesta is dead wrong about Frank. I bet Frank can play 150 games a year at 1B. He may not win any gold gloves but he'll be find. I'd DH PK in a second and put Frank at 1B if I were GM.

Bob

I think Paul is right. I love Frank and I think he can still make solid contributions but anyway you look at it he's a poor fielding 1B, he's past his prime, and he's on the wrong side of 35 with a good chunk of change left on his deal.

JC456
02-23-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Kittle
How is Frank "an AL player?" If that's a shot at his defensive skills, then I disagree. Frank's not THAT bad at 1B. He's a big target and does a good job of scooping balls out of the dirt. His only weakness is his throwing, but that only becomes an issue when, say, a 3-4 double play opportunity arises. That doesn't happen enough to conclude that his defense would hamper a team if he was the every day first baseman.

My feeling is that the Dodgers are just being cheap. If they have the pitching depth to deal Perez, they'd be getting the better end of the deal.

As much as I'd like more pitching, I'm not disappointed that this deal fell through.

Or fielding a bunt, or relaying a throw from the outfield. He is but one good thing in the field, a big target to throw at.

Kittle
02-23-2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by JC456
Or fielding a bunt, or relaying a throw from the outfield. He is but one good thing in the field, a big target to throw at.

Yeah, Frank fielding bunts would NOT be pretty.

I don't think he's that much worse than McGwire was. Frank would be able to survive in the NL at 1B although, like you said, it wouldn't be pretty.

ChiSox65
02-23-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
What a moronic statement in the year 2004. There's no such thing as an NL or AL player anymore. With 20 games on interleague play every year and the amount of player movement between the leagues, how can you label anyone as an AL or NL player?

I gotta disagree.........Frank is still able to get by in the field but what about Edgar Martinez or the last few years of Harold Baines.

RealFan
02-23-2004, 02:41 PM
After reading Moneyball and the way it portrayed the White Sox and Kenny Williams, I'd be hard pressed to say that Dipodesta is wrong in his analysis of Frank. That book changed the way I look at a lot of baseball's core statistics.

soxtalker
02-23-2004, 06:14 PM
I had thought that a lot of posters who are supporting Frank were forgetting his fielding problems in the past. (That's understandable, considering the controversy last year about giving Frank more playing time at 1B.) But I couldn't remember any solid examples. However, the comments about Frank fielding a bunt brought back memories of our final play of the 2000 play-offs, when the Mariners took advantage of this weakness. It's only an example. Frank definitely has had an awesome hitting career, but fielding is something he's struggled with for a long time.

steff
02-23-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by chisox06
Good point, but Frank gets paid to play baseball, and along with that comes certain responsibilites off the field, and unlike 99% of the rest of the player in this league I guess Frank feels he can just do what he wants. But hey if he puts up the numbers I guess thats all you can ask.


Oh please.. what a crock of crap. He's paid to do a job.. and his job is to play baseball. If he was required to do other things it would be in his contract. Obviously.. off the field "requirements" are not - and justifiably so. It's their friggin job. Not their life. They DO have families ya know.

batmanZoSo
02-23-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
We should pay some of Konerko's salary to get him out.


Post of the week /\

Even at peak performance, Konerko is not worth 8 million. At least not on this team which is already full of Konerko clones, e.g. big slow righties who hit for power and can't field much (not to mention our payroll constraints which prohibit us from fielding anyone over 6 million that isn't absolutely crucial to our success...which PK is not). Konerko would be useful on the Dodgers...well, provided his hip isn't career hampering.

ode to veeck
02-23-2004, 08:20 PM
disagree with you here, although I'm glad they feel this way about Frank. There are no NL counterparts to guys like Edgar Martinez, who hasn't played in the field for God knows how long.

Absolutely, or how about Harold Baines, whose role as a DH greatly extended his career, almost to the point of racking up 3000 hits.

While there clearly are "AL DH only players", I'd actually like to see Frank getting some time at 1B

soxtalker
02-23-2004, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by RealFan
After reading Moneyball and the way it portrayed the White Sox and Kenny Williams, I'd be hard pressed to say that Dipodesta is wrong in his analysis of Frank. That book changed the way I look at a lot of baseball's core statistics.

I also found that Moneyball changed the way I look at baseball's statistics. However, I'm actually a little surprised that Frank wouldn't fare better by the Moneyball standards. I don't recall exactly how they treated defensive statistics, but I suspect that it wouldn't mean that many extra baserunners. And his hitting, particulary considering the walks, would be hard to equal. Now, Frank did start to emphasize HR's lately, but perhaps he could be persuaded to go back to hitting the ball to all fields. That sort of hitting would even work better in cavernous Dodger Stadium.

gosox41
02-24-2004, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
I also found that Moneyball changed the way I look at baseball's statistics. However, I'm actually a little surprised that Frank wouldn't fare better by the Moneyball standards. I don't recall exactly how they treated defensive statistics, but I suspect that it wouldn't mean that many extra baserunners. And his hitting, particulary considering the walks, would be hard to equal. Now, Frank did start to emphasize HR's lately, but perhaps he could be persuaded to go back to hitting the ball to all fields. That sort of hitting would even work better in cavernous Dodger Stadium.

Maybe DePodesta is making comments like this so he can get Frank cheap. There are no other teams really interested in him so there is a small chance the teams are still talking. Beane was great at playing mind games with other GM's (I forgot the example of the 2002 trade the A's made that summer where Beane BS'ed his way into a good deal.) DePodesta has to know KW is a fool for even wanting to trade Frank so why not making him look dumber. Who helped find Hatterburg and converted him to 1B? At the time the move was made Hatteburg was not even a first baseman.



Bob

OneDog
02-24-2004, 08:32 AM
Maybe DePodesta is making comments like this so he can get Frank cheap. There are no other teams really interested in him so there is a small chance the teams are still talking. Beane was great at playing mind games with other GM's (I forgot the example of the 2002 trade the A's made that summer where Beane BS'ed his way into a good deal.)


Was that the three team trade with the Yankees and Tigers where Beane got Ted Lily?

Maximo
02-24-2004, 08:38 AM
Why do I keep thinking that there is just no good solution for Sox fans when it comes to the Frank Thomas situation?

Brian26
02-24-2004, 02:20 PM
For those of you who read Moneyball, does Beane come off as a smart baseball guy or just a good bs'er after you're through with the book?

jeremyb1
02-24-2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
I also found that Moneyball changed the way I look at baseball's statistics. However, I'm actually a little surprised that Frank wouldn't fare better by the Moneyball standards. I don't recall exactly how they treated defensive statistics, but I suspect that it wouldn't mean that many extra baserunners. And his hitting, particulary considering the walks, would be hard to equal. Now, Frank did start to emphasize HR's lately, but perhaps he could be persuaded to go back to hitting the ball to all fields. That sort of hitting would even work better in cavernous Dodger Stadium.

The A's have placed an increased emphasis on defense in recent seasons. They supposedly like Hatteburg a lot due to his ability to scoop balls and signed Singleton last season presumably for his defense. Also, as I've previously mentioned a lot of the A's success is simply common sense as far as being careful with who you commit to. Frank has a significant money on his deal and he's getting older so that's a risk that's not necessarily incredibly smart to take. Frank makes a lot more sense for a team like us since he's been here his entire career, has fan support to a certain degree, and is a possible HOFer.

chisox06
02-24-2004, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by steff
Oh please.. what a crock of crap. He's paid to do a job.. and his job is to play baseball. If he was required to do other things it would be in his contract. Obviously.. off the field "requirements" are not - and justifiably so. It's their friggin job. Not their life. They DO have families ya know.

Hmm when does not calling your bosses back have anything to do with your familes? By the way, these guys get about 5 months off to do whatever they please.

steff
02-24-2004, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by chisox06
Hmm when does not calling your bosses back have anything to do with your familes? By the way, these guys get about 5 months off to do whatever they please.



Why is it any of OUR BUSINESS who Frank does or does not call..???

Geezus Mary & Joseph... are you so blinded by the Kenny and Ozzie show and their complete lack of professionalism that you will use the "he didn't return phone calls" excuse to further argue this point?

And if so.. I'll have to ask if it's written in his contract that he HAS to return phone calls.. and if it's not then I guess he's off the hook then.. right? Ya know.. since they get 5 months OFF, and when I'm OFF I don't usually call my boss back.. and out of respect my boss usually doesn't call me when I am off.

And since you quoted me, but failed to address MY point.. here it is again..

Originally posted by chisox06
Good point, but Frank gets paid to play baseball, and along with that comes certain responsibilites off the field, and unlike 99% of the rest of the player in this league I guess Frank feels he can just do what he wants. But hey if he puts up the numbers I guess thats all you can ask.

Originally posted by steff
Oh please.. what a crock of crap. He's paid to do a job.. and his job is to play baseball. If he was required to do other things it would be in his contract. Obviously.. off the field "requirements" are not - and justifiably so. It's their friggin job. Not their life. They DO have families ya know.

Care to comment?

steff
02-24-2004, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by chisox06
By the way, these guys get about 5 months off to do whatever they please.

By the way... no, they don't. They are athletes. They must MAINTAIN their bodies in order to perform their job.. ON THE FIELD. They don't get 5 months to just sit around and do nothing.

Brian26
02-24-2004, 05:29 PM
Maybe it's really simple...

Frank has turned off his voicemail messages ever since that dueche from Kansas City posted his cell number last summer.

I'm sure if his voicemail was working, he'd return KW's call within hours.

Brian26
02-24-2004, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by steff
By the way... no, they don't. They are athletes. They must MAINTAIN their bodies in order to perform their job.. ON THE FIELD. They don't get 5 months to just sit around and do nothing.

Except for Konerko, who drinks with me every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday night at Slugger's.

steff
02-24-2004, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Except for Konerko, who drinks with me every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday night at Slugger's.



Eh.. he's a lazy POS anyway.

chisox06
02-24-2004, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by steff
Why is it any of OUR BUSINESS who Frank does or does not call..???

Geezus Mary & Joseph... are you so blinded by the Kenny and Ozzie show and their complete lack of professionalism that you will use the "he didn't return phone calls" excuse to further argue this point?

And if so.. I'll have to ask if it's written in his contract that he HAS to return phone calls.. and if it's not then I guess he's off the hook then.. right? Ya know.. since they get 5 months OFF, and when I'm OFF I don't usually call my boss back.. and out of respect my boss usually doesn't call me when I am off.

And since you quoted me, but failed to address MY point.. here it is again..

Originally posted by chisox06
Good point, but Frank gets paid to play baseball, and along with that comes certain responsibilites off the field, and unlike 99% of the rest of the player in this league I guess Frank feels he can just do what he wants. But hey if he puts up the numbers I guess thats all you can ask.

Originally posted by steff
Oh please.. what a crock of crap. He's paid to do a job.. and his job is to play baseball. If he was required to do other things it would be in his contract. Obviously.. off the field "requirements" are not - and justifiably so. It's their friggin job. Not their life. They DO have families ya know.

Care to comment?

Your right his job is to play baseball, and I wish he would shut his mouth and do just that. Is it really necessary to put in someones contract "Frank shall not disrupt the clubhouse, Frank shall not skip Spring Training and pre game workouts because he's upset, frank shall not bitch and moan about the amount of salary he makes that he agreed too." Apparently if those things were part of his contract we would be all set, seems more like unnecessary drama in a clubhouse thats known for instability.

Kenny and Ozzie have a complete lack of professionalism? Frank puts all of his negativeness strictly upon himself with his 4th grade mentality to dealing with tough situations. Boo hoo Frank :whiner:.

And they have 5 months to maintain there body because there athletes? Yea thats great, and thats part of their job because without it, they wouldn't be able to play. Is that one of the ridiculous "off the field requirements" you speak of? I brush my teeth every morning to maintain my job too.

steff
02-24-2004, 06:08 PM
Why do you care what Frank's issues are WITH HIS EMPLOYERS...? Things that should be PRIVATE...
Frank's not the only one that disrupts the clubhouse.. how about the others get fair reporting in the media..? Nope.. never happen. Frank's become too easy of a target as the Chicago Whipping Boy. Nothing he does or says will EVER be right? But again... why is this a concern of ours.. err.. yours? Between the lines. I don't care if Frank walks around the clubhouse crying, with his blankie, bo-bo, and wearing a diaper.. I care about what he does ON THE FIELD.. since.. that's where his JOB is.

Obviously you haven't a clue on the work out regimens these guys must maintain. And my point was not that it's an "off the field requirement".. you made the asinine assumption that they get 5 months off.

By the way.. still waiting on those "off the field things" he required to do....