PDA

View Full Version : The Esteban Loaiza signing revisited


MRKARNO
02-22-2004, 12:00 PM
“Loaiza is done.” –Hullett_Fan

“great moves in my opinion. we have absolutely nothing to lose with these deals and its possible that a guy like this could come up huge. i'm a huge fan of loaiza. he should provide fair competition for rauch in the spring and whoever doesn't win the fifth starters spot can then be our long reliever.” –jeremyb1

“Loazia: Nothing special. Rauch deserves to start over these two pitchers.” -MarkEdward

“I could picture Loaiza ending up as the long relief guy out of the bullpen.” -delben91

“I've gone to hating everything K.W. does to liking it.Very strange.I like these moves also.Heredia and Loiza were very good pitchers in 2001.Especially Loiza who pitched lights out the first half of that year(until he got hurt) and (i'm not sure)but i believe he made the allstar team.” –harwar

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=16850&s=&perpage=15&pagenumber=1&display=show


“I'm sure Phil has his sources, but I still think this is a little simplistic. I mean, what if Loaiza absolutely gets shelled in S.T. and Rauch is at least okay? If Loaiza puts up a 11.59 ERA and Rauch checks in at 5.00? I like the idea of competition, but I think annointing Esteban friggin' Loaiza the front runner is nuts. He was not good last year. Let the best man win. Its hard for me to imagine that the Sox would just give him the job, regardless of what he does in S.T., unless Rauch lights it up.” –hold2dibber

“Loazia is coming off a mediocre year with a 5.71 era and his career totals are nothing more than a righthanded batting practice pitcher. Terrible hits/per inning and very high era's.
I agree that Rauch needs to WIN the 5th spot, but Loazia ?!?” –hose


“Well I'm not an "expert" on anything but if Loiaza is the 5th starter then I hope the Sox score 7 or 8 runs every time he pitches. They'll need every one of them. MLB is pitching thin and this is one shining example. Loiaza will remind you of former Sox greats Jaime Navarro and Todd Ritchie.”-SI1020


http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=17135&s=&perpage=15&pagenumber=1&display=show

SEALgep
02-22-2004, 12:04 PM
Lol, those people probably wish they had an eraser. :smile:

MRKARNO
02-22-2004, 12:05 PM
Except for Jeremyb1, who clearly had the right attitude the entire time.

CubKilla
02-22-2004, 12:07 PM
Can't say that alot of the naysayers opinions weren't well founded based on the numbers at the time though. KW got lucky. JR's penny-pinching ways forced KW to sign a player that no one else in MLB seemed, at the time, willing to give another chance to. Loaiza turned into a Cy Young Candidate in '03. I hope it continues.

But for every ELo story there are 50 similar moves that don't work out.

Paulwny
02-22-2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Lol, those people probably wish they had an eraser. :smile:

With all the pro and con statements concerning Harris and Rowand many of us will need erasers this year. We'll definately see who was right and wrong.

CubKilla
02-22-2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
With all the pro and con statements concerning Harris and Rowand many of us will need erasers this year. We'll definately see who was right and wrong.

Somehow I doubt it. I'll go on record right now and say that neither Rowand or Harris will have half the impact at their respective positions OR the plate that ELo had in '03.

MRKARNO
02-22-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Somehow I doubt it. I'll go on record right now and say that neither Rowand or Harris will have half the impact at their respective positions OR the plate that ELo had in '03.

I dont think that they will be as good as Loaiza was, but I really think Rowand is bound to have a break-out year this year and that Harris will be able to hit around .270

CubKilla
02-22-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I dont think that they will be as good as Loaiza was, but I really think Rowand is bound to have a break-out year this year and that Harris will be able to hit around .270

I hope so cause if Rowand has another April and May like he did last season.....

But most here seemed convinced it was more injury than choke so we'll see.

SEALgep
02-22-2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Somehow I doubt it. I'll go on record right now and say that neither Rowand or Harris will have half the impact at their respective positions OR the plate that ELo had in '03. Lol, that's like making a prediction that Rowand won't place second for the batting title. I'm just busting on you. :smile: It's no secret though, that I believe Rowand and Harris will make solid contributions for the team.

MRKARNO
02-22-2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
I hope so cause if Rowand has another April and May like he did last season.....

But most here seemed convinced it was more injury than choke so we'll see.

I dont think that there's any reason to believe that his problems were not caused by his injury, because they certainly were. Throw away that awful start and he batted about .400 last year. That's incredible. Combine that with a very dedicated offseason, playing in winter ball and training with Thomas in las Vegas and I see Rowand having .300 and 20 HR potential. And if he takes the 2 spot ahead of Thomas and Lee drops back in the rotation, his numbers could even be better

doctor30th
02-22-2004, 12:36 PM
Find anything for me, cause I'm pretty sure I thought he would be a decent candidate for the 5th starter especially at the price.

But then again I think I said the same thing about Gil Meche.

gosox41
02-22-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
“Loaiza is done.” –Hullett_Fan

“great moves in my opinion. we have absolutely nothing to lose with these deals and its possible that a guy like this could come up huge. i'm a huge fan of loaiza. he should provide fair competition for rauch in the spring and whoever doesn't win the fifth starters spot can then be our long reliever.” –jeremyb1

“Loazia: Nothing special. Rauch deserves to start over these two pitchers.” -MarkEdward

“I could picture Loaiza ending up as the long relief guy out of the bullpen.” -delben91

“I've gone to hating everything K.W. does to liking it.Very strange.I like these moves also.Heredia and Loiza were very good pitchers in 2001.Especially Loiza who pitched lights out the first half of that year(until he got hurt) and (i'm not sure)but i believe he made the allstar team.” –harwar

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=16850&s=&perpage=15&pagenumber=1&display=show


“I'm sure Phil has his sources, but I still think this is a little simplistic. I mean, what if Loaiza absolutely gets shelled in S.T. and Rauch is at least okay? If Loaiza puts up a 11.59 ERA and Rauch checks in at 5.00? I like the idea of competition, but I think annointing Esteban friggin' Loaiza the front runner is nuts. He was not good last year. Let the best man win. Its hard for me to imagine that the Sox would just give him the job, regardless of what he does in S.T., unless Rauch lights it up.” –hold2dibber

“Loazia is coming off a mediocre year with a 5.71 era and his career totals are nothing more than a righthanded batting practice pitcher. Terrible hits/per inning and very high era's.
I agree that Rauch needs to WIN the 5th spot, but Loazia ?!?” –hose


“Well I'm not an "expert" on anything but if Loiaza is the 5th starter then I hope the Sox score 7 or 8 runs every time he pitches. They'll need every one of them. MLB is pitching thin and this is one shining example. Loiaza will remind you of former Sox greats Jaime Navarro and Todd Ritchie.”-SI1020


http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=17135&s=&perpage=15&pagenumber=1&display=show

E-Lo was by far the exception to the rule. I don't recall anyone saying Loiaza was going to be a huge surprise last year.

No one gets things write 100% of the time in baseball.

So, MrKarno let;s hear your predictions for 2004. Will Loiaza be as great again. Will Buehrle bounce back? How will Willie do offensively? How about Paul? It goes on and on.

Bob

MRKARNO
02-22-2004, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
E-Lo was by far the exception to the rule. I don't recall anyone saying Loiaza was going to be a huge surprise last year.

No one gets things write 100% of the time in baseball.

So, MrKarno let;s hear your predictions for 2004. Will Loiaza be as great again. Will Buehrle bounce back? How will Willie do offensively? How about Paul? It goes on and on.

Bob

I'm not criticizing people for thinking that he would be awful, I was just revisiting it.

I was trying to show that just because a lot of people are saying that a player will be bad (Harris, Rowand, etc.), doesnt mean that they will be.

Rex Hudler
02-22-2004, 03:34 PM
FWIW, mrkarno, I like this type of thread. I enjoy reading after the fact what everyone said earlier. If I happen to be wrong and it shows up on a thread like this, I have no problem with it. I'll own up to my mistake.

For that matter, I will admit that going into last season I thought Kelly Wunsch would flop. I even went as far as saying I thought he would not finish the season with the team. I felt he was overrated and his impact would be limited to one hitter at a time. Obviously, Kelly proved me wrong.

Don't be shy about bringing up old threads like this. If someone takes their mistake personally, so be it. Can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen! LOL

poorme
02-22-2004, 04:19 PM
I would have said he was a waste of time too.

We've been doing the same BS as long as I remember, signing guys like Atlee Hammaker, Joe Magrane, Dave Righetti, Robert Person.

I guess once every 15-20 years, you get lucky.

gosox41
02-22-2004, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I'm not criticizing people for thinking that he would be awful, I was just revisiting it.

I was trying to show that just because a lot of people are saying that a player will be bad (Harris, Rowand, etc.), doesnt mean that they will be.

I know where you were going with it, and it is interesting to see what people thought back then. I didnt think too highly of the move at the time but it's one of the few things KW has done that has worked out. If you throw enough stinky stuff against the wall something is bound to stick.

Bob

jeremyb1
02-22-2004, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Except for Jeremyb1, who clearly had the right attitude the entire time.

Hehe. Thank You. I'm almost embarassed because I'm sure there were just as many things I was completely wrong about but I'll take it. Whether you liked Loaiza or not, even if he wasn't as good as he was with us, he's about as good a starter you can ussually get on a minor league deal so it was a great move by KW and moreso I think a huge mistake by a lot of other GMs who had no interest for whatever reason.

SEALgep
02-22-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I know where you were going with it, and it is interesting to see what people thought back then. I didnt think too highly of the move at the time but it's one of the few things KW has done that has worked out. If you throw enough stinky stuff against the wall something is bound to stick.

Bob KW has made a lot of good moves, the club just hasn't gelled together as we had hoped. I think JM was a major factor for that being the case. Sometimes things don't work out, but he is aggressive and I like what he brings to the table. Besides, they didn't know he was going to compete for the Cy Young, but they were confident about him being a good pitcher. It wasn't like they just got lucky with him, they believed in him.

DrCrawdad
02-22-2004, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Lol, that's like making a prediction that Rowand won't place second for the batting title. I'm just busting on you. :smile: It's no secret though, that I believe Rowand and Harris will make solid contributions for the team.

I believe that Rowand, Harris, Olivo, Crede, Garland and Wright will have break-thru years.

:putitontheboard

MRKARNO
02-22-2004, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
I believe that Rowand, Harris, Olivo, Crede, Garland and Wright will have break-thru years.


I could see all of this happening, especially if you mean Wright in a bullpen role. And if it all does happen, I dont see how we could lose the division unless Buerhle and Loaiza both fail us.

delben91
02-22-2004, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO

“I could picture Loaiza ending up as the long relief guy out of the bullpen.” -delben91


Well, I was close.

Happy Felsch Fan
02-22-2004, 08:23 PM
Don't forget the immortal Ken Hill

gosox41
02-23-2004, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
KW has made a lot of good moves, the club just hasn't gelled together as we had hoped. I think JM was a major factor for that being the case. Sometimes things don't work out, but he is aggressive and I like what he brings to the table. Besides, they didn't know he was going to compete for the Cy Young, but they were confident about him being a good pitcher. It wasn't like they just got lucky with him, they believed in him.

KW has made plenty of bad moves to offset his good moves. The inability this offseason to fill any obvious holes points to how KW has really hurt this team.

Also, if the Sox had a higher budget and could afford to actually and go out and get pitching last season, I bet they never would have bought in E-Lo. It was a low cost/low risk move that worked out. But if they spent money no way would they have looked at E-Lo.

Bob

SEALgep
02-23-2004, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
KW has made plenty of bad moves to offset his good moves. The inability this offseason to fill any obvious holes points to how KW has really hurt this team.

Also, if the Sox had a higher budget and could afford to actually and go out and get pitching last season, I bet they never would have bought in E-Lo. It was a low cost/low risk move that worked out. But if they spent money no way would they have looked at E-Lo.

Bob The fact is KW does have to work within a specific budget. And even if they had spent money on a another pitcher they certainly would have gotten Loaiza as well. Maybe he wouldn't have started, but we would have signed him. Loaiza isn't as big of a surprise as they make it him out to be. Of course no one thought he was going to compete for the Cy Young, but they scouted him and knew if he was healthy that he could be effective. Especially with the new cut fastball. There were other teams as well interested in Loaiza remember.

hose
02-23-2004, 04:52 PM
Loiaza has to be one of the best success stories to come around MLB in a while . I didn't give him a chance to even make the team and he wins 21 games, WOW!!!