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Lip Man 1
02-21-2004, 12:54 PM
I think this brings up a point I've been meaning to mention:

"People think you can just go out and win 15, 16 games and it's that easy. But it's tough. There are great pitchers out there that don't even do that some years. " --Jon Garland Sun Times.

Now I think at best, Garland is mediocre however that doesn't make what he said any less valid.

There are folks here at WSI who toss numbers around about 'well so and so is good for 15 wins etc...' (They are usually the stat lovers)

Gang just a reminder, winning games in the bigs isn't easy. Some pitchers have a better shot because they have better stuff, play on better teams and have more experience....but even for them it's not a cake walk.

That needs to be kept in mind especially when talking about 'can't miss kids!'. Like "Neal Cotts can win ten games...Danny 'I Can't Pitch' Wright can win twelve games."

It's pretty remarkable and unusual, when a guy like Mark Prior who still doesn't even know what he's doing, can go out and win 16 games.

That's part of the reason why I am so opposed to having to rely on kids in your rotation, and thinking you're going to be a 'contender.'

Just something to consider.

Lip

WinningUgly!
02-21-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I think this brings up a point I've been meaning to mention:

"People think you can just go out and win 15, 16 games and it's that easy. But it's tough. There are great pitchers out there that don't even do that some years. " --Jon Garland Sun Times.

Now I think at best, Garland is mediocre however that doesn't make what he said any less valid.

There are folks here at WSI who toss numbers around about 'well so and so is good for 15 wins etc...' (They are usually the stat lovers)



Win totals by starters are somewhat over-rated. The Sox won 95 games in 2000, with a starting staff full of "mediocre" pitchers. Sirotka was the only starter to reach the 15 win mark. He was also the only pitcher to end up with his era under 4.

wsgdf
02-22-2004, 12:06 AM
There are folks here at WSI who toss numbers around about 'well so and so is good for 15 wins etc...' (They are usually the stat lovers)


Wrong. If there's one stat true stat lovers hate it's the Win.

Stat lovers say:
"Pitcher X is good for 200 innings, a WHIP under 1.3, he'll strike out at least one batter an inning and 3X as many as he'll walk. How many games will he win? Who knows and who cares, that's a meaningless number, all I know is this guy can pitch."

npdempse
02-22-2004, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by wsgdf
Wrong. If there's one stat true stat lovers hate it's the Win.

Stat lovers say:
"Pitcher X is good for 200 innings, a WHIP under 1.3, he'll strike out at least one batter an inning and 3X as many as he'll walk. How many games will he win? Who knows and who cares, that's a meaningless number, all I know is this guy can pitch."

Yes; It's Hawk Harrelson who thinks that "the only stat that matters is Wins." Um-hum.

TornLabrum
02-22-2004, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by npdempse
Yes; It's Hawk Harrelson who thinks that "the only stat that matters is Wins." Um-hum.

The statheads do have another stat that helps to explain why good pitchers sometimes have lousy W-L records: run support.

WinningUgly!
02-22-2004, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
The statheads do have another stat that helps to explain why good pitchers sometimes have lousy W-L records: run support.

Ah, run support.. the main reason Roy Halladay took the Cy Young Award & Esteban Loaiza did not.

CubKilla
02-22-2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
"People think you can just go out and win 15, 16 games and it's that easy. But it's tough. There are great pitchers out there that don't even do that some years. " --Jon Garland Sun Times.

Sounds like JG is setting the table for another mediocre, a game above or below .500, season.

red faber
02-23-2004, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Sounds like JG is setting the table for another mediocre, a game above or below .500, season.


you took the words right out of my mouth cubkilla!!!!!!

garland's comments sound like nothing more than comments from a person who is trying to make excuses for theirmediocrity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!