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View Full Version : How much can they really spend?


soxnut
02-21-2004, 12:34 AM
Ok folks. This is for those of you who think this organization has the money to spend to get free agents, and keep players. How much money do yo think they can spend without losing money?
I have no idea, but I'm sure some of you do. So what is it?

MRKARNO
02-21-2004, 12:45 AM
They could spend 100 mil and probably get it back, but they dont realize that because this ownership group refuses to see that if you put a good product out on the field, the fans will come to watch it in a city with 8 million people. They refuse to take a risk because god forbid they dont make all the money back but maybe they have a very successful team.

soxnut
02-21-2004, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
They could spend 100 mil and probably get it back, but they dont realize that because this ownership group refuses to see that if you put a good product out on the field, the fans will come to watch it in a city with 8 million people. They refuse to take a risk because god forbid they dont make all the money back but maybe they have a very successful team.


So, do you think all of this not spending is all about risk, and them not will to do so?

I really wonder what the whole thinking is behind what they do. I mean, if everyone else(fans, media, baseball experts, etc...) seems to think they can spend the money, and won't lose money, then why don't they just do it?? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

SEALgep
02-21-2004, 12:52 AM
I don't know all the financials, but the organization for the most part tries to keep the payroll at a break even price. They are a little over their projected budget. Could they spend a little more and make it back, maybe. It really would depend on several factors. However, a $100 million, the Sox would lose a lot of money. At least the first year of doing so.

soxnut
02-21-2004, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I don't know all the financials, but the organization for the most part tries to keep the payroll at a break even price. They are a little over their projected budget. Could they spend a little more and make it back, maybe. It really would depend on several factors. However, a $100 million, the Sox would lose a lot of money. At least the first year of doing so.

Well, I guess I could see them losing in the short term, considering they have such a low season ticket base.

SEALgep
02-21-2004, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
Well, I guess I could see them losing in the short term, considering they have such a low season ticket base. There is certainly a high return if it works out, but the risk is very high as well. I would rather incrementally increase it. Our next goal should be a 70-75 million dollar pay role.

soxnut
02-21-2004, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
There is certainly a high return if it works out, but the risk is very high as well. I would rather incrementally increase it. Our next goal should be a 70-75 million dollar pay role.


I agree, even though I wished that would have been the budget for this year. If it were, I don't think there would be that many people upset about the current state of the Sox. They basically would have had at least the same team they did last year, and that team should have been in the post-season, and done well in it.(But I still think we'll have a good team this year) :smile:

SEALgep
02-21-2004, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
I agree, even though I wished that would have been the budget for this year. If it were, I don't think there would be that many people upset about the current state of the Sox. They basically would have had at least the same team they did last year, and that team should have been in the post-season, and done well in it.(But I still think we'll have a good team this year) :smile: I agree. I also agree we have a good team now, and I believe we take the division. :)

CubKilla
02-21-2004, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Our next goal should be a 70-75 million dollar pay role.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

A payroll of $70-$75 million could have gotten us a 2B, a CF, and/or a pitcher.

Hangar18
02-21-2004, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
Ok folks. This is for those of you who think this organization has the money to spend to get free agents, and keep players. How much money do yo think they can spend without losing money?
I have no idea, but I'm sure some of you do. So what is it?

If the Cubs can spend $100 MILLION ........so can the SOX. WE ARE AFTER ALL..........IN THE SAME FREAKING MARKET.
its as simple as that. Uncle Jerry is tossing and turning knowing that the Cubs are calling his "Bluff".

Man Soo Lee
02-21-2004, 07:25 AM
I honestly don't care what they spend as long as they put a legitimate contender on the field. If they can do that inexpensively, more power to them.

But that means you don't start a season with no reasonable expectation of success from 2/5 of your starting rotation. Or no leadoff hitter.

We could all recall similar decisions from other years. Kip Wells made 7 decent starts in his debut last year? Great, he's our #2 starter.

If dumb decisions by your inexperienced GM mean it costs a little extra to win this year, so be it. If they would make a sincere effort to put a winner on the field, Sox fans would come back.

SSN721
02-21-2004, 10:08 AM
I think that 100 mil is far out of range of what they can afford right now. Once the Sox get an attendence over three million that is feasible. If they did that it would be good publicity and if they started winning it would be great. But I think it will take a few years of losing a ton of money if they spent at that level before they could get the revenue streams high enough to truly afford that. Obviously I dont know their true situation but I cant imagine this team could afford 70-80 million before they really start losing money. I would love the commitment they make if they upped the payroll like that, but unless it was a good team I still think they would get the same attendence, people wont pay to see a high-priced losing team. That being said I still think they could affor around 75-80 million or at least afford to go a few million in the whole just to take a shot at winning.

soxnut
02-21-2004, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
If the Cubs can spend $100 MILLION ........so can the SOX. WE ARE AFTER ALL..........IN THE SAME FREAKING MARKET.
its as simple as that. Uncle Jerry is tossing and turning knowing that the Cubs are calling his "Bluff".


Hangar, I don't think they can at this point, and not lose money.
The Sox don't have a 25,000 season ticket base.(Isn't that guaranteed money?) The Sox average a little over 25,000 per season total, including season tickets. So how can they spend the same?

I think they can spend more than they have, probably around 70-75 mil this year and not lose money, but I think you're a little out of whack.......... :?: And you're also talking about a media giant compared to.......whomever these guys are that own the Sox......

ode to veeck
02-21-2004, 10:54 AM
we could solve the ticket base problem by doing the critical gap filler acquisitions that make us competitive at the beginning of the season rather than at mid-season (reference: attendance in 2nd half last year)

unfortunately, the best deals for us at this point might not come til mid-season, when other teams are in dumping mode next

soxnut
02-21-2004, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
we could solve the ticket base problem by doing the critical gap filler acquisitions that make us competitive at the beginning of the season rather than at mid-season (reference: attendance in 2nd half last year)

unfortunately, the best deals for us at this point might not come til mid-season, when other teams are in dumping mode next


Yeah, as long as the Sox are in contention, they will pick up players mid-season. But, as for starting the season with gap fillers, ...would there be enough of a sales increase to justify spending 100 mil, as Hangar has suggested??

SSN721
02-21-2004, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
we could solve the ticket base problem by doing the critical gap filler acquisitions that make us competitive at the beginning of the season rather than at mid-season (reference: attendance in 2nd half last year)

unfortunately, the best deals for us at this point might not come til mid-season, when other teams are in dumping mode next

Just hope we arent the ones doing the dumping. :(:

MRKARNO
02-21-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
I think that 100 mil is far out of range of what they can afford right now. Once the Sox get an attendence over three million that is feasible. If they did that it would be good publicity and if they started winning it would be great. But I think it will take a few years of losing a ton of money if they spent at that level before they could get the revenue streams high enough to truly afford that. Obviously I dont know their true situation but I cant imagine this team could afford 70-80 million before they really start losing money. I would love the commitment they make if they upped the payroll like that, but unless it was a good team I still think they would get the same attendence, people wont pay to see a high-priced losing team. That being said I still think they could affor around 75-80 million or at least afford to go a few million in the whole just to take a shot at winning.

Well, it's my opinion that if they spent 100 mil that it would pay for itself because people would come out to see the better team. The moves would generate HUGE excitement which would grow the season ticket base by thousands upon thousands of people. Sox fans who wouldn't normally go to as many games because the team has been mediocre would be willing to shell out a few thou to get season tix. Expecially if they went from the current 65 mil to 100 mil immediately would this effect happen.

But if they went up to 75-80 mil next year in this market, it could do wonders. Tons of FA pitchers will be available and a good amount of FA hitters. Step one, however should be to retain Maggs along with the core we finish the year with.

soxnut
02-21-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Well, it's my opinion that if they spent 100 mil that it would pay for itself because people would come out to see the better team. The moves would generate HUGE excitement which would grow the season ticket base by thousands upon thousands of people. Sox fans who wouldn't normally go to as many games because the team has been mediocre would be willing to shell out a few thou to get season tix. Expecially if they went from the current 65 mil to 100 mil immediately would this effect happen.

But if they went up to 75-80 mil next year in this market, it could do wonders. Tons of FA pitchers will be available and a good amount of FA hitters. Step one, however should be to retain Maggs along with the core we finish the year with.


So, you think that if they spent 100 mil this year, that season ticket sales would go up enough that the team would recover their expenditure this year?

I do agree about Maggs, they really have got to keep him.

MRKARNO
02-21-2004, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
So, you think that if they spent 100 mil this year, that season ticket sales would go up enough that the team would recover their expenditure this year?

I do agree about Maggs, they really have got to keep him.

It's too late to do that this year. You have to show this type of commitment towards the beginning of the offseason to generate the buzz and the hype to pay for most of it. They would double merchandise sales and would get at least 2.5 to 3 million fans.

The key is to retain all of the good players we already have if we have some success with them this year and then go out next year, fill the positional holes with pretty good, but not necessarily great players, but then to go out and get one of the top tier FA pitchers like a Pedro Martinez. Imagine the buzz the sox would get if they could reel in Pedro without giving up any of its good players.

soxnut
02-21-2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Imagine the buzz the sox would get if they could reel in Pedro without giving up any of its good players.

That would be awesome :D:

SEALgep
02-21-2004, 12:15 PM
The problem is that if they raised the payroll to $100 million in the beginning of the offseason, there is no guarantee that they would make that money back, in fact I'm pretty sure they wouldn't. Then if they get too much in the hole, they kill that payroll and start from scratch. Even if we had a 70-75 million dollar payroll this year, there is still a significant risk of losing money a good amount of money. Personally, I'm okay with how it's going. I think we have a real competitive team, and if we win with them, and our able to make a good buck for the team, then maybe we can have a payroll like that next year. With the guys we have, and have coming up, that money could be well spent on whatever holes we need to fill the most. We may have Reed coming up (and I wouldn't even discount Rowand having a very good season), possibly resign Maggs, maybe Uribe will show more promise than given credit for at the plate (since he certainly has it on D), Harris may come through better than most think here. Things may happen, and I believe these guys deserve a shot. I think next year, and possibly mid-season this year, we will have a much better idea of what we need. That goes for pitching too, where next year Honel may be ready, guys unexpectedly (not by me I have some confidence in some of these supposedly no name guys) step up. I believe we can win the division this year, and that's where my energy is focused right now, but I also see a lot of promise for the years coming as well.

CubKilla
02-21-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Imagine the buzz the sox would get if they could reel in Pedro without giving up any of its good players.

:giangreco

"White Sox acquire injury-prone head-hunter who's frightened to pitch against the NY Yankees."

:moron

"The White Sox have acquired the on-field version of William Ligue Jr..... a headcase who has never won the big game and who's only real accomplishment in baseball is attacking ex-Cub skipper Don Zimmer Ligue-style."

SSN721
02-21-2004, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
:giangreco

"White Sox acquire injury-prone head-hunter who's frightened to pitch against the NY Yankees."

:moron

"The White Sox have acquired the on-field version of William Ligue Jr..... a headcase who has never won the big game and who's only real accomplishment in baseball is attacking ex-Cub skipper Don Zimmer Ligue-style."

Wow, must be a good day for those guys, thought they would be harsh on the Sox. :D:

Clarkdog
02-21-2004, 01:12 PM
Win the division in 2004: Increase the payroll the following season to $70- $75 M . Make a comittment to winning. Use the expanded payroll to keep what the Sox have and plug the holes to run at the playoffs again. This should lead to more season ticket sales and greater walkup.

Lose the division in 2004: The payroll will stay at or be less than it is this season. With Maggs, Koch, Valentin, Loaiza, Shoney etc all FA's at the end of the season the Sox will need to make decisions on how best to retool the ball club and run at the division in 2005. They will have the payroll flexibility to do it, if this truly is a break even number.

Don't forget - the new Comcast broadcast deal starts in 2005. But I also don't think the Sox will have many high salaried/ multi-year deals until the new CBA is put into effect in 2006.

cornball
02-21-2004, 01:55 PM
Well first of all the Sox have the 6th highest intake of money from media (tv and radio), 21st in attendance plus one of the best lease agreements in the league.

With that said, if the invested in the team attendance would take care of itself and generated additional funds. As of now I can see, an 80-85 million payroll. When attendance increases close to 100MM.

SEALgep
02-21-2004, 02:19 PM
It's easy to just say where the payroll should be, but the fact is, we don't have all the fiscal figures in front of us to be able to make rational decisions. I want a higher payroll, but not at the expense of our future. Steady growth of the payroll and using it wisely with key acquisitions and having a good farm system is the right way to business for this club. If we could feasibly have a much higher payroll with only a partial risk of losing money, I believe they would do it. Right now, it's too high of a risk to just increase by that much. We would lose money, and it would force cut backs in the future. I believe we will see an increase next year, and be able to fill additonal needs with our young guys. Steady efficient growth. I'm okay with that, because it would be an improvement to an already solid club, in my opinion.

MisterB
02-21-2004, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Well, it's my opinion that if they spent 100 mil that it would pay for itself because people would come out to see the better team. The moves would generate HUGE excitement which would grow the season ticket base by thousands upon thousands of people. Sox fans who wouldn't normally go to as many games because the team has been mediocre would be willing to shell out a few thou to get season tix. Expecially if they went from the current 65 mil to 100 mil immediately would this effect happen.

But if they went up to 75-80 mil next year in this market, it could do wonders. Tons of FA pitchers will be available and a good amount of FA hitters. Step one, however should be to retain Maggs along with the core we finish the year with.

You're assuming the team would actually be better. From '95 - '97 the Sox had one of the top 5 payrolls in baseball, yet the team sucked and the fans stayed away. At this point, a $100M payroll would be a waste because KW routinely overpays for players (Konerko, Clayton, Koch, and to a lesser extent Valentin and Ordonez) and they can't even get the players they have to play up to their potential (no way we should be getting regularly beat by the Twins, Tigers, D-Rays, etc.). Payroll is half the problem (maybe even less) - without competent management in the front office and on the field, it's just money down the drain.

anewman35
02-21-2004, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
If the Cubs can spend $100 MILLION ........so can the SOX. WE ARE AFTER ALL..........IN THE SAME FREAKING MARKET.
its as simple as that. Uncle Jerry is tossing and turning knowing that the Cubs are calling his "Bluff".

It doesn't work like that, and you know it. Let's say you went and opened up a new hamburger place. Could you spend as much as McDonald's does, even if you were right next door to one?

Daver
02-21-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I don't know all the financials, but the organization for the most part tries to keep the payroll at a break even price. They are a little over their projected budget. Could they spend a little more and make it back, maybe. It really would depend on several factors. However, a $100 million, the Sox would lose a lot of money. At least the first year of doing so.

You know this for a fact?

anewman35
02-21-2004, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by Daver
You know this for a fact?

You honestly think that if the Sox went to $100 million next year, they'd make an additional $40 million in revenue to make it worth while? I certianly don't. Maybe in a couple of years, but I can't imagine a $40 million revenue jump right away.

SEALgep
02-21-2004, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
You honestly think that if the Sox went to $100 million next year, they'd make an additional $40 million in revenue to make it worth while? I certianly don't. Maybe in a couple of years, but I can't imagine a $40 million revenue jump right away. I agree. I hope for steady incremental raises, while including our farm system guys.

red faber
02-21-2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
You honestly think that if the Sox went to $100 million next year, they'd make an additional $40 million in revenue to make it worth while? I certianly don't. Maybe in a couple of years, but I can't imagine a $40 million revenue jump right away.


to me they wouldn't even have to spend $100 million.

i think that bumping the payroll up to like $75 million or$80 million would do wonders.

making a profit will never happen right away.
but if you spend a decent amount of money,and spend it in the right way.it will eventually happen.

as apposed to not spending any money at all...

SEALgep
02-21-2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by red faber
to me they wouldn't even have to spend $100 million.

i think that bumping the payroll up to like $75 million or$80 million would do wonders.

making a profit will never happen right away.
but if you spend a decent amount of money,and spend it in the right way.it will eventually happen.

as apposed to not spending any money at all... I think they plan on spending the money, that's just my gut telling me. Probably not jumping to $80 million, but I think a budget close to $70 million or a little over isn't out of the question. It's a little over $60 million now, with the thought of them adding midseason if they have needs. I'm okay with that for next year, and if it works out, steadily increase from there. Oh ya, I should also include that I think that increase for next year that I'm predicting is including Maggs long term extension. We shall see.

soxrme
02-21-2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
So, do you think all of this not spending is all about risk, and them not will to do so?

I really wonder what the whole thinking is behind what they do. I mean, if everyone else(fans, media, baseball experts, etc...) seems to think they can spend the money, and won't lose money, then why don't they just do it?? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
You will never know the financials and you will never see what the owners payroll or expense accounts are. You tell us why they won't do it, in 1994 they were well on their way to 3 million attendance and we all know what happened. This is our team this year lets root for them and see what happens. All the screaming and ranting about JR, or kW will not do any good and just feeds the biased media in this town.

red faber
02-21-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I think they plan on spending the money, that's just my gut telling me. Probably not jumping to $80 million, but I think a budget close to $70 million or a little over isn't out of the question. It's a little over $60 million now, with the thought of them adding midseason if they have needs. I'm okay with that for next year, and if it works out, steadily increase from there. Oh ya, I should also include that I think that increase for next year that I'm predicting is including Maggs long term extension. We shall see.


i hope you're right about maggs!!!!!!!!

Daver
02-21-2004, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
You honestly think that if the Sox went to $100 million next year, they'd make an additional $40 million in revenue to make it worth while? I certianly don't. Maybe in a couple of years, but I can't imagine a $40 million revenue jump right away.

You,of course,are assuming that the Sox's self imposed payroll is break even for the team.

I don't buy that argument for a single second.

doctor30th
02-21-2004, 09:11 PM
I'd love to throw my 2 cents in about how much they could really spend. Unfortunately I don't know, I'm not sure anyone knows. I mean after all is said and done, all the money is shelled out to every place who says 58 million isn't the break even point.

Unfortunately there is really no way for us to find out right now, and to tell you the truth even if we all found out they were not lying and they were losing money how many of us would actually believe it?

Hangar18
02-21-2004, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I think they plan on spending the money, that's just my gut telling me. ..... It's a little over $60 million now, with the thought of them adding midseason if they have needs.

If this were truly the Case, the White Sox would be FOOLISH to apply this business philosophy, because THEY NEED THEIR HOLES FILLED NOW. Waiting til Later, when Everone In the League Knows what they "Need" only drives up the Price of Players thru Trades. The SOX have learned this lesson many times before, yet Keep Repeating their same Mistakes. Getting "Rid" of Foulke for Billy Koch was a shortsighted attemp at Foregoing Foulkes Arbitration. They figured they'd save about 2 Million and Get KOCH. Well, they got BURNED BADLY trying to SAVE that 2 million bucks, and instead needed someone else in the bullpen, FURTHER COSTING US MINOR LEAGUE "TALENT", that we couldve used to help Fill OTHER Holes in our lineup instead of covering up our Mistakes. The SOX Chose NOT to DUMP Manuel, Most likely because he was Owed 1 MORE YR of Salary......around somewhere like 2 Million also, INSTEAD OF GETTING THE BEST AVAILABLE MGR OUT THERE. SO in the SOX Feeble Attempt at Saving 4 Million, we Ended up trading about 4 Minor Leaguers (who couldve been used for a Leadoff hitter) and Spent another couple of million paying for NEW PITCHERS not to MENTION EVENTUALLY LOSING THE DIVISION, which in hindsight COST THE TEAM UNTOLD MILLIONS in lost Playoff Revenue, Gate Recpts, Parking, TV, etc etc.

The White SOX by DEFIANTLY NOT ADDRESSING THEIR NEEDS IN THE OFFSEASON, will PAY EVEN MORE to acknowledge THOSE SAME NEEDS come JULY, if theyre even in it. What a stupid organization

soxnut
02-21-2004, 11:57 PM
What a stupid organization [/B][/QUOTE]

Hangar......And you still consider yourself a Sox fan? Whose more stupid--the stupes or stupes who follow????????????????????????????HHHHHHMMM??????? ???????
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

soxnut
02-22-2004, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by soxrme
You will never know the financials and you will never see what the owners payroll or expense accounts are. You tell us why they won't do it, in 1994 they were well on their way to 3 million attendance and we all know what happened. This is our team this year lets root for them and see what happens. All the screaming and ranting about JR, or kW will not do any good and just feeds the biased media in this town.


I have no idea, that ,if they had the money, why they wouldn't spend it. But I am not complaining about what they have done this year. I think they have the talent to be competitive--I think they always did. I think the philosophy of Manuel...whatever it was, was a hinderance to this team. I am rooting for them all the way......... :smile:

SEALgep
02-22-2004, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
If this were truly the Case, the White Sox would be FOOLISH to apply this business philosophy, because THEY NEED THEIR HOLES FILLED NOW. Waiting til Later, when Everone In the League Knows what they "Need" only drives up the Price of Players thru Trades. The SOX have learned this lesson many times before, yet Keep Repeating their same Mistakes. Getting "Rid" of Foulke for Billy Koch was a shortsighted attemp at Foregoing Foulkes Arbitration. They figured they'd save about 2 Million and Get KOCH. Well, they got BURNED BADLY trying to SAVE that 2 million bucks, and instead needed someone else in the bullpen, FURTHER COSTING US MINOR LEAGUE "TALENT", that we couldve used to help Fill OTHER Holes in our lineup instead of covering up our Mistakes. The SOX Chose NOT to DUMP Manuel, Most likely because he was Owed 1 MORE YR of Salary......around somewhere like 2 Million also, INSTEAD OF GETTING THE BEST AVAILABLE MGR OUT THERE. SO in the SOX Feeble Attempt at Saving 4 Million, we Ended up trading about 4 Minor Leaguers (who couldve been used for a Leadoff hitter) and Spent another couple of million paying for NEW PITCHERS not to MENTION EVENTUALLY LOSING THE DIVISION, which in hindsight COST THE TEAM UNTOLD MILLIONS in lost Playoff Revenue, Gate Recpts, Parking, TV, etc etc.

The White SOX by DEFIANTLY NOT ADDRESSING THEIR NEEDS IN THE OFFSEASON, will PAY EVEN MORE to acknowledge THOSE SAME NEEDS come JULY, if theyre even in it. What a stupid organization We have a different sense of what holes need to be filled. I believe we have a solid team as is. I thought Koch was a great pick up at the time, and I doubt many people thought otherwise when the trade actually happened. I know I was excited to have him. I still am excited to have him this season, as I believe he will have a good year. I'm ready to start this season, with the players we have, and determine what holes we have as we go through the season. However, I believe we will win the division as is, and any addition we may need is going to be minimal. That's my perspective, and it could be wrong, but I'm not worried.

SEALgep
02-22-2004, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
I have no idea, that ,if they had the money, why they wouldn't spend it. But I am not complaining about what they have done this year. I think they have the talent to be competitive--I think they always did. I think the philosophy of Manuel...whatever it was, was a hinderance to this team. I am rooting for them all the way......... :smile: I'm with you Soxnut. Let's play hard with who we have. I'm confident about this season, and believe we will win the division as is. Cheers to 2004. :gulp:

rahulsekhar
02-22-2004, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Daver
You,of course,are assuming that the Sox's self imposed payroll is break even for the team.

I don't buy that argument for a single second.

(puts on a "Daver" hat)

And you have evidence of this? You know this for a fact?

(takes it off)

Seriously - All interviews I've seen with people who know Reinsdorf say that his attitude is to operate at break-even. I know that the financials are closed so you have no real idea what the #s are, but do you have any indication that ownership is skimming a lot of cash?

Outside of the "they're in a big market" argument - which says more about what they COULD make than what they are making.

I personally have not evidence one way or the other. But all the comments I've seen from people with virutally nothing to gain by lying for JR say that they think that's what his attitude is.

Paulwny
02-22-2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
We have a different sense of what holes need to be filled. I believe we have a solid team as is. I thought Koch was a great pick up at the time, and I doubt many people thought otherwise when the trade actually happened. .

You'd be surprised how many here were against the trade.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=15846&s=&perpage=15&pagenumber=1&display=show

SEALgep
02-22-2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
You'd be surprised how many here were against the trade.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=15846&s=&perpage=15&pagenumber=1&display=show There were some, but the majority seemed to be on board with it.

Paulwny
02-22-2004, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
There were some, but the majority seemed to be on board with it.

Sorry posted the wrong thread, check the poll results for those who bothered to vote.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/poll.php?s=&action=showresults&pollid=486

SEALgep
02-22-2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Sorry posted the wrong thread, check the poll results for those who bothered to vote.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/poll.php?s=&action=showresults&pollid=486 That's certainly valid, I wasn't on this forum during that time, so if that was the general consensus, then maybe more disliked it. However, there were still a lot of people that did, and out of the people I talked to at the time, most people were excited about it. Oh well, regardless, we have him and I'm looking for him to have a good year. Cheers Paulwny- to Koch making it a non issue and helping this team to a division title. :gulp: