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View Full Version : Cooper is looking for a few good men


hose
02-20-2004, 07:30 AM
Don Cooper has confidence that Schoenweis will handle the 4th slot in the rotation , the 5th slot is up for grabs.

Cooper, "stuff with location gets out guys forever."

Pitchers and catchers are in camp today :cool:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/201sd3.htm

Huisj
02-20-2004, 10:53 AM
A couple depressing quotes:

After inviting Loaiza to spring training as a non-roster player last year only to see him re-establish his career they were hoping the same thing would happen for former Phillies standout veteran Robert Person.

so in other words, that's the new team philosophy. they caught lightning in a bottle once, so why wouldn't it happen again? that's really going to be a reliable way to get good talent

Guillen and Williams have both said Koch will be the closer until he shows he can't handle that role, and Cooper feels the same way.

Another great philosophy. Instead of crappy players earning their spot, hope that throwing them right into the fire will make them perform better. More sound baseball philosophy.

I'm excited that spring training is starting finally, but wow am I worried about what this season is going to look like. It's going to be worse than the "kids can play" years, because now it's "the odd mix of washed up veterans, trading-block superstars, and crappy kids can't play."

it's going to be a long year

CubKilla
02-20-2004, 10:58 AM
After the "Billy Botch Adventures" last season, you'd hope Guillen and Cooper would be smart enough to make Botch earn the closers role back for '04 rather than just give it to him. Hopefully Shingo doesn't lose his closer mentality..... I'm sure he'll be trying to close games by mid-May.

:chunks

SEALgep
02-20-2004, 11:01 AM
Before we get all in a hoopla, Wunsch has said that Koch is in great shape. That's a good sign, and it's not like the guy isn't good. He's had one bad year, happened to be the year we initially had him, but the guy isn't washed up. The fact is, if he can retain the closer role, it sets the rest of the pen up very nicely. That's why it's his job to lose.

CubKilla
02-20-2004, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Before we get all in a hoopla, Wunsch has said that Koch is in great shape.

Great shape is one thing. When asked if Botch regained velocity, Wunsch locked-up faster than OJ at a Domestic Violence seminar.

pudge
02-20-2004, 01:49 PM
I like his quotes at the end... if "stuff with location" really is key, then Dan Wright should be nowhere near this rotation. Stick him in the pen. The problem is, I have no clue who #5 should be...

SoxxoS
02-20-2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by pudge
I like his quotes at the end... if "stuff with location" really is key, then Dan Wright should be nowhere near this rotation. Stick him in the pen. The problem is, I have no clue who #5 should be...

I wouldn't be suprised if it is Rauch. He is two years removed from surgery, it's put up or shut up time. We saw the numbers form Charlotte, and they are damn good (except the ERA and the gopher balls, which is a direct correlation in that bandbox). He gave up less than a hit an inning, and almost struck out a batter an inning. 57 walks in 124 innings is troublesome, but he has always been known for his control. So maybe another offseason is just what he arm needed.

By the by, anyone got any updates on Josh Stewart?

CubKilla
02-20-2004, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I wouldn't be suprised if it is Rauch. He is two years removed from surgery, it's put up or shut up time. We saw the numbers form Charlotte, and they are damn good (except the ERA and the gopher balls, which is a direct correlation in that bandbox). He gave up less than a hit an inning, and almost struck out a batter an inning. 57 walks in 124 innings is troublesome, but he has always been known for his control. So maybe another offseason is just what he arm needed.

I just can't get Rauch out of my mind as a viable option as 4th or 5th starter. I know it was only one game, but back when JM FINALLY let him start a game after his call-up in '02 against the Twins in September, Rauch looked fantastic. His best pitch that game was his curveball. I might even be so bold as to call it Zito-esque. If he can get that pitch to work for him consistenly, I can't help but think our question as to who our number 4 or 5 starter would be this season would be answered..... as long as he stays healthy.

SoxxoS
02-20-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
I just can't get Rauch out of my mind as a viable option as 4th or 5th starter. I know it was only one game, but back when JM FINALLY let him start a game after his call-up in '02 against the Twins in September, Rauch looked fantastic. His best pitch that game was his curveball. I might even be so bold as to call it Zito-esque. If he can get that pitch to work for him consistenly, I can't help but think our question as to who our number 4 or 5 starter would be this season would be answered..... as long as he stays healthy.

Healthy is a big key. Is he still thowing that big curveball even after surgery???

SEALgep
02-20-2004, 02:18 PM
Jason Grilli is a legit contender for the fifth spot.

poorme
02-20-2004, 02:19 PM
Too bad he's not a legit major leaguer.

SEALgep
02-20-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I wouldn't be suprised if it is Rauch. He is two years removed from surgery, it's put up or shut up time. We saw the numbers form Charlotte, and they are damn good (except the ERA and the gopher balls, which is a direct correlation in that bandbox). He gave up less than a hit an inning, and almost struck out a batter an inning. 57 walks in 124 innings is troublesome, but he has always been known for his control. So maybe another offseason is just what he arm needed.

By the by, anyone got any updates on Josh Stewart? Stewart will be at ST, but will probably be sent to the minors.

SEALgep
02-20-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Too bad he's not a legit major leaguer. What makes you think he can't pitch?

duke of dorwood
02-20-2004, 02:24 PM
Its time for Rausch to get regular starts, I mean as #4-until May when games pile up. Shoenweis, has the mental ability to adjust to the 5 spot in the early going. Let Jon get in a groove

SEALgep
02-20-2004, 02:24 PM
Jason Grilli last year

Year Team
Lg. Age Org. W L WPct ERA G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK

2003 Jupiter Hammerheads
FSL 26 Fla 4 2 .667 2.53 7 7 0 0 0 0 42.2 38 13 12 1 6 30 1

2003 Albuquerque Isotopes
PCL 26 Fla 6 2 .750 3.37 12 12 0 0 0 0 66.2 64 30 25 3 30 38 3

Iguana775
02-20-2004, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
What makes you think he can't pitch?

Cause he's on the Sox.

lol

rdivaldi
02-20-2004, 02:27 PM
I just don't see where this "confidence" in Schoenweis is coming from. I expect him to make 6 or 7 crappy starts and then be sent back to the bullpen where he belongs.

While Grilli has the skills to be a major league pitcher, I can't see how he is going to magically be healthy. We used up our luck for the next 5 years when Flash somehow stayed healthy last year.

Oh, and Rauch should be our 5th starter, it's time to give this kid the shot he deserves.

Iwritecode
02-20-2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Great shape is one thing. When asked if Botch regained velocity, Wunsch locked-up faster than OJ at a Domestic Violence seminar.

In Kelly's defense, it's really easy to tell how good of shape someone is in by just looking at them.

Unless he has actually watched Koch throw some pitches (and I honestly don't know how often pitchers do that in the off-season) with a radar gun on him, he wouldn't know if his velocity is back or not...

SoxxoS
02-20-2004, 02:42 PM
If Koch keeps throwing 93, he is going to be knocking at Dr. Andrews door to VOLUNTEER to get another Tommy John surgery.

Huisj
02-20-2004, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Jason Grilli last year

Year Team
Lg. Age Org. W L WPct ERA G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK

2003 Jupiter Hammerheads
FSL 26 Fla 4 2 .667 2.53 7 7 0 0 0 0 42.2 38 13 12 1 6 30 1

2003 Albuquerque Isotopes
PCL 26 Fla 6 2 .750 3.37 12 12 0 0 0 0 66.2 64 30 25 3 30 38 3

low low k rates, doesn't seem terrible promising for some reason.

Foulke You
02-20-2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
I just don't see where this "confidence" in Schoenweis is coming from. I expect him to make 6 or 7 crappy starts and then be sent back to the bullpen where he belongs.


I disagree. I think people might be pleasently surprised with Schoeneweis as a #4 or #5 guy. He has pretty good stuff and has averaged between 170-200 IP the last two full seasons he was a starter. That is going to go a long way towards filling the IP gap left by Colon. If we can get 6 solid innings out of "Schoey" on a regular basis, there is no reason why he can't win 10-12 games for us and rack up 200 IP. That is all you can ask from your #4 guy. We're not the Yanks after all.

Of course, feel free to bring up this post and flame away on me if he gets shelled in April. :D: I seem to be one of the few people here that think Schoneweis is going to be fine in his starting role.

Frankly, it is the #5 spot that has me concerned. Our recent track record with youngsters in that spot is awful. Stewart, Wright, Neal Cotts, and Mike Porzio combined to win only 3 games for us last year in #5 starter games. That is just awful. Perhaps it is time for "new blood" and guys like Rauch, Diaz, or even Emencio Pacheco get their shot if they have a good spring.

SEALgep
02-20-2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Huisj
low low k rates, doesn't seem terrible promising for some reason. K's are good for pitchers, but I'm more interested in how he gets guys out. If he grounds guys out a lot, that's just fine with me. You don't have to be overpowering.

jeremyb1
02-20-2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
I disagree. I think people might be pleasently surprised with Schoeneweis as a #4 or #5 guy. He has pretty good stuff and has averaged between 170-200 IP the last two full seasons he was a starter.

I'm terribly concerned with Schoeneweis as a starter for us, even moreso than our fifth starter since we have a number of decent options there. However, in the back of my mind I wonder if with some work with Coop (he talks about working on Shoeneweis' change in the southtown) if he couldn't somehow put together a mediocre season in the fourth spot.

SEALgep
02-20-2004, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I'm terribly concerned with Schoeneweis as a starter for us, even moreso than our fifth starter since we have a number of decent options there. However, in the back of my mind I wonder if with some work with Coop (he talks about working on Shoeneweis' change in the southtown) if he couldn't somehow put together a mediocre season in the fourth spot. According to Coop, Scotty's his guy. He thinks there is work to be done on his change, but with it, he can be very effective. I hope so, but the confidence they have in him is proning me to at least give him a shot, but I'm skeptic to a degree as well. However, if he can use his change effectively in combination of his other pitches- he's got a good fastball and sinker, I think a cutter as well but I'm not sure- then he can be an effective 4th guy.

Foulke You
02-20-2004, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I'm terribly concerned with Schoeneweis as a starter for us, even moreso than our fifth starter since we have a number of decent options there. However, in the back of my mind I wonder if with some work with Coop (he talks about working on Shoeneweis' change in the southtown) if he couldn't somehow put together a mediocre season in the fourth spot.

With the White Sox recent track record with developing young starters, I'm more concerned with guys like Stewart, Rauch, Pacheco, etc. than I am with a guy who has MLB experience as a starter and has been to a World Series like Schoeneweis. Mentally, I don't have to worry about Schoneweis breaking down on the mound due to a lack of experience. It is purely a control and "stuff" issue with him. With youngsters, there is that huge mental hurdle of "holy crap, I'm pitching in the big leagues" to overcome. Buehrle never had that problem. Guys like Neal Cotts and Jon Rauch probably do and it may take time to shake. That is time that this franchise does not have. We need to win early and often next year or face another large rebuilding program where our entire starting rotation may consist of Wright, Pacheco, Rauch, etc. :(:

maurice
02-20-2004, 05:00 PM
If Schoeneweis doesn't come into the season with a seriously improved changeup or cutter, he'll be terrible. He's great against lefties but can't get righties out to save his life. That's okay for a short reliever but very bad news for a starter.

SEALgep
02-20-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by maurice
If Schoeneweis doesn't come into the season with a seriously improved changeup or cutter, he'll be terrible. He's great against lefties but can't get righties out to save his life. That's okay for a short reliever but very bad news for a starter. That's very true. It really depends if he can do it or not. Right now Coop thinks he can.

hose
02-20-2004, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Before we get all in a hoopla, Wunsch has said that Koch is in great shape.


http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/PP__Dion-Milam.jpg

"Yeah this off season training is really starting to pay off. "