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View Full Version : Maddux = Pippen


balboner
02-18-2004, 04:57 AM
This could be wishful thinking, but there are many similarities between Maddux going back to the Cubs, and Pippen's miserable return to the Bulls. Both of them are in their 30s, and they both were coming off of subpar seasons. Not only that, but both Paxson and Hendry seemed to get caught up in the excitement of bringing back a former great, and offered them way more money than others were willing to offer and much more than they deserved. So, for every Sox fan that has to put up with annoying Cubs fans today (and every day), just think how great the Bulls are now that they brought back Pippen. Yes, I know that the Cubs were a better team than the Bulls before the players were brought in, but chemistry in sports in a very fickle issue. How will Maddux respond to Dusty when he wants to come out of a game after 6 innings, but Dusty wants him to go another 40 pitches?

SSN721
02-18-2004, 06:11 AM
I can only hope that that is true. Certainly make for a much easier summer if Maddux's performance this summer is as impressive as Pippens has been for the Bulls. :D:

ode to veeck
02-18-2004, 07:05 AM
Didn't Maddux have like 16 wins and a ton of starts last year--I don't think you'll see him falling off the end of the earth just yet.

Pippin's another story, helped by the fact the Bulls really suck overall

Grobber33
02-18-2004, 10:26 AM
That's a really silly comparison! There is NO similarity between the two. I'm a big Pippen Fan, but Maddux never had a '1.8' seconds thing,never called Fans names,never got caught with a gun in his car,& never told the Owner to 'go to hell'(even if it was justified).
You are really reaching here. Just tell the truth.....you want anything in a Cub uniform to fail and you're just hoping Maddux and the Cubs fail!

Even with the Bartman fiasco,and blowing a 3-1 NLCS lead,the Cubs were NOT failures last year. They became the first Chicago team to win a playoff series since the 1917 Sox,and nobody here wants to admit that(of course!). I keep reading about how they got lucky playing the Reds and Pirates at the end of last season. Well guess what,the Astros and Cards got to play those teams just as many times. Too bad for them.
The Sox are in a much more winnable Division and have been picked anywhere from 1st to 3rd. If I were a Sox Fan, I'd worry about the Cubs in June(when the 2 teams play)and not prior to that,but it's amazing---I'm reading as much about the Cubs on here as the Sox,and this is a Sox board!!!
That's why the perception is always out there that many of you care more about the Cubs losing than the Sox winning.It wont go away.

Hangar18
02-18-2004, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33

... I keep reading about how they got lucky playing the Reds and Pirates at the end of last season. Well guess what,the Astros and Cards got to play those teams just as many times. Too bad for them.
The Sox are in a much more winnable Division and have been picked anywhere from 1st to 3rd. If I were a Sox Fan, I'd worry about the Cubs in June(when the 2 teams play)and not prior to that,but it's amazing---I'm reading as much about the Cubs on here as the Sox,and this is a Sox board!!!
That's why the perception is always out there that many of you care more about the Cubs losing than the Sox winning.It wont go away.

Perception is reality Grob, and the MEDIA have painted it this way. Wouldt you complain for years if the Media was Favoring one team, despite that team having been ABSOLUTELY AWFUL for years, and the other winning? Now that the north team finally is making moves and winning a bit..... they get 5x the coverage now. makes you go hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
And as for your statement regarding the Weak Sister Teams
the Pirates and Reds........Yes....the Astros had to play them also....but Mostly when BOTH TEAMS STILL CARED and DIDNT GIVE THEIR PLAYERS AWAY. That was a AAA team the REds ran out in september...DIsgraceful. Absolutely Disgraceful.
The Pirates gave everyone of Value to the Cubs......a TEAM IN THEIR OWN DIVISION FOR GODS SAKES, Blasphemy!!! Again , absolutely disgraceful. The heat of a Pennant Race being decided by Pirate Players wearing uniform #'s like 55, 59, 61 isnt Good For Baseball. and all they got in return was Bobby Millions Of Dollars Hill? my god, no wonder they stink. THe Actions/Inactions of the Pirates and Reds had Just as Much to do with the Pennant Race as anything. The moves the Pirates and Reds made were Hugely a Factor in that pennant race.

As a SOX FAN Lester, Im WORRIED ABOUT THE SOX YES. But to Ignore whats happening with the CUbs, with the MEdia (loving Cubs), and the league itself, without realizing the cubs are an Evil Direct Competitor for Fans and Business, is FOOLISH.
The cubs are the one team that could fold us for good

Jerko
02-18-2004, 10:36 AM
The Astros and Cards DID play the Reds and Pirates the same amount of times as the Cubs did, but not at the very end of the year like the when Cincy had their entire team injured or traded and the Pirates were in post-firesale mode. I remember Cincy beat Houston quite a few times when they had their entire team intact. I know you play all your division mates the same amount of times, but sometimes it matters WHEN you play them more than anything, and the Cubs DID benefit by playing them at season's end. Yes, they still had to beat them and did, but it's not really the same. I am a Reds fan and did not even know anybody on the team hardly that last month of the year. I know Dunn, Kearns, Casey, Griffey, Guillen, Larkin and Boone were either hurt or gone by the time they got to the last 2 Cub series.

Grobber33
02-18-2004, 11:07 AM
It was the Astros own fault they lost out. THEY had the Brewers in Houston the last weekend,and could have won the Division,but they choked against a tripped down Milwaukee team. That's not the Cubs fault. They took care of business against Pittsburgh.
If the Pirates unloading the 3 players to the Cubs was a joke,then how about the Sox getting Alomar and Everett for almost nothing so the Mets and Rangers could dump their contracts? It's not the Cubs problem if the Buccos made those deals with them,just like it was'nt the Sox problem that they were able to steal those two players. Look,the Sox had their chances,,,,they blew it in Minnesota---even with the bad losses all year to Detroit and Tampa Bay,it was right there for them and they screwed it up. None of that was the Cubs fault!

soxfan26
02-18-2004, 11:11 AM
:threadsucks


No comparison. Maddux is a hero. He will win #300 this season.

Iwritecode
02-18-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
It was the Astros own fault they lost out. THEY had the Brewers in Houston the last weekend,and could have won the Division,but they choked against a tripped down Milwaukee team. That's not the Cubs fault. They took care of business against Pittsburgh.
If the Pirates unloading the 3 players to the Cubs was a joke,then how about the Sox getting Alomar and Everett for almost nothing so the Mets and Rangers could dump their contracts? It's not the Cubs problem if the Buccos made those deals with them,just like it was'nt the Sox problem that they were able to steal those two players. Look,the Sox had their chances,,,,they blew it in Minnesota---even with the bad losses all year to Detroit and Tampa Bay,it was right there for them and they screwed it up. None of that was the Cubs fault!

Nobody is saying it's the Cubs fault they got incredibly lucky last year. It just happened.

What does that have anything to do with the Sox though?

Iwritecode
02-18-2004, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
That's a really silly comparison! There is NO similarity between the two. I'm a big Pippen Fan, but Maddux never had a '1.8' seconds thing,never called Fans names,never got caught with a gun in his car,& never told the Owner to 'go to hell'(even if it was justified).

Those are all off the field things. The comparison is that Maddux isn't nearly the same player he was as when he left.

Same with Pippen.

You could same the same thing if we got Ventura back again.

If the Indians got back Lofton...

Need I go on?

SoxxoS
02-18-2004, 11:23 AM
Pippen is injury prone, and the Bulls knew his knee was going to fall off when they signed him to the mid-level exception.

Maddux doesn't have injury issues.

Grobber33
02-18-2004, 11:28 AM
The Tribe DID get Lofton back and he helped them make the Playoffs.

CHISOXFAN13
02-18-2004, 11:29 AM
I agree with Les. Every other thread on this site is about the Cubs.

It really gets tiresome.

And I also love the fans who rip on the media for praising the Cubs? What the hell do you expect? We've done noithing, and they've had arguably the best offseason a Chicago baseball team has ever had.

Iwritecode
02-18-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
The Tribe DID get Lofton back and he helped them make the Playoffs.

That was a few years ago. I'm talking about this year...

Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
I agree with Les. Every other thread on this site is about the Cubs.

It really gets tiresome.

Hey, it's better than complaining about how bad the Sox will be this year right?

Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
And I also love the fans who rip on the media for praising the Cubs? What the hell do you expect? We've done noithing, and they've had arguably the best offseason a Chicago baseball team has ever had.

This off-season, ok they probably deserve more coverage. But the fact that they have been getting more coverage for years (even when losing almost 100 games) really takes a toll over time...

CHISOXFAN13
02-18-2004, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
That was a few years ago. I'm talking about this year...



Hey, it's better than complaining about how bad the Sox will be this year right?



This off-season, ok they probably deserve more coverage. But the fact that they have been getting more coverage for years (even when losing almost 100 games) really takes a toll over time...

I totally agree with you on that, IWC. I was basing my comments on this year, I guess. No question, the Cubs have received more coverage that they deserve for their annual futility.

Frustrations are really coming out right now, my friend.

Grobber33
02-18-2004, 11:54 AM
In 2000 for example,the Sox got way more coverage than the Cubs and that's the way it should have been. True when all things are equal,the Cubs get more covereage,but it's sad when things have to digress to stuff like media coverage.
As a so-called media person myself,,I knew I was doing a fair job when I got voice mails from Cub Fans saying I was talking too much about the Sox,and then got additional ones from Sox Fans saying I was talking too much about the Northsiders. It's a no win situtaion.
Say what you want about Jay Marriotti,but I can tell you he has no love lost for the Tribune or Tribune Company----not by a long shot! I also know he does'nt care if the Sox or Cubs do better,,,he simply wants what ever is going to be the best story. True he and Jerry Reinsdorf do not like each other,but his dislike for the Tribune Company balances that off.

pudge
02-18-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
In 2000 for example,the Sox got way more coverage than the Cubs and that's the way it should have been. True when all things are equal,the Cubs get more covereage,but it's sad when things have to digress to stuff like media coverage.
As a so-called media person myself,,I knew I was doing a fair job when I got voice mails from Cub Fans saying I was talking too much about the Sox,and then got additional ones from Sox Fans saying I was talking too much about the Northsiders. It's a no win situtaion.
Say what you want about Jay Marriotti,but I can tell you he has no love lost for the Tribune or Tribune Company----not by a long shot! I also know he does'nt care if the Sox or Cubs do better,,,he simply wants what ever is going to be the best story. True he and Jerry Reinsdorf do not like each other,but his dislike for the Tribune Company balances that off.

I agree with all that - but Cub fans just as equally want the Sox to lose... I can't tell you how much my Cub-fan friends talk about how bad the Sox are going to be, and gloat in it... why do they even care? Why do they discuss the Sox when they are going to have a WS contending team?

skottyj242
02-18-2004, 01:44 PM
All the talk on this thread about the cubs is nonsense, we should worry about ourselves, not the fact that we haven't had back to back winning seasons in like four decades(ha ha). And to whoever it was that was talking about the Cubs getting lucky because they played the Reds at the end of last year, I distinctly remember (because I was there) the Cubs blowing like and eight run lead in Cincinnati the last Thursday of the season. I went all the way to Cinci. to root against the Cubs to clinch.

balboner
02-18-2004, 02:28 PM
Anyone that thinks that the Cubs weren't basically handed the NL Central title last year down the stretch is naive. While the Astros had to play teams like the Giants, the Cubs had numerous series where the best player on the teams were the likes of D. Jimenez.

Mighty4
02-18-2004, 02:51 PM
Here's why people are saying that playing the Reds at the END of last year helped the Cubs win the division. They won it by one game, and it didn't hurt them by winning like 8 of the last 9 or 5 of the last 6 games they played vs. Cincinnati or whatever it was. I know they still had to win those games on the field, and to their credit, they did, but let's just use the Reds as an example for now.

Reds opening day lineup

Barry Larkin, SS
Aaron Boone, 2B
Ken Griffey Jr., CF
Austin Kearns, RF
Adam Dunn, LF
Sean Casey, 1B
Brandon Larson, 3B
Jason LaRue, C


Now I know that's not an All-Star team by any means, but here's the Reds at the end of the year whom the Cubs beat up on to win by ONE whole game.


Ryan P. Freel, CF
Ray Olmedo, SS
D'Angelo Jimenez, 2B
Russell Branyan, 1B
Jason LaRue, C
Dernell Stenson, LF
Wily Mo Pena, RF
Tim Hummel, 3B
I know the Reds killed the Cards in May or June but I think Houston pretty much beat them anyway, but I really think the opening day Red lineup would have beaten the Cubs more than once down the stretch. That's why the Cubs DID get "lucky" that they played the Reds more at the very end of the year than in May or June as compared to Houston or even St. Louis. That's all people are saying!

serena
02-18-2004, 08:39 PM
I am SO grateful that spring training is starting and we will finally have something REAL to talk about.

TommyJohn
02-19-2004, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33

Even with the Bartman fiasco

Huh? I know that Les Grobstein is an intelligent Cub fan who
would never use that phrase or blame a fellow fan for what
happened. Mariotti, stop using Grobstein's username.