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Bisco Stu
02-18-2004, 01:18 AM
status as the greatest hitter of the last 15 years?

I think so.

Note I said hitter, not all-around player.

Frank may not have Mac, Bonds and Sham-me's stats, but he's been the genuine article for all these years.

Integrity's got to count for something.

doublem23
02-18-2004, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Bisco Stu

Frank may not have Mac, Bonds and Sham-me's stats, but he's been the genuine article for all these years.


Frank's hitting stats are better than both McGwire and Sosa, he just doesn't make SportsCenter every night for hot dogging after a home run.

CubKilla
02-18-2004, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by Bisco Stu
Integrity's got to count for something.

How do you know Frank's not on 'roids? I'm not trying to start contoversy..... just asking. Frank's a big boy for an "all natural" athlete. If ShamME, Mac, and Barry are on 'roids, who says Frank isn't? And how do you know 100%?

munchman33
02-18-2004, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
How do you know Frank's not on 'roids? I'm not trying to start contoversy..... just asking. Frank's a big boy for an "all natural" athlete. If ShamME, Mac, and Barry are on 'roids, who says Frank isn't? And how do you know 100%?

People on steroids generally aren't as fat as Frank. It's impossible to be fat on on roids for any prolonged amount of time.

mantis1212
02-18-2004, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
How do you know Frank's not on 'roids? I'm not trying to start contoversy..... just asking. Frank's a big boy for an "all natural" athlete. If ShamME, Mac, and Barry are on 'roids, who says Frank isn't? And how do you know 100%?

He's the same size he was 15 years ago, no chance

HITMEN OF 77
02-18-2004, 02:02 AM
When you think of a steroid athlete, I look at Bonds. When he was with the Pirates, I highly doubt he used roids, he was too small, now with SF look at him. He's huge. I don't care how much you do at the gym and how long you work out, someone with a Bonds like body type doesn't get that big without supplements.

doublem23
02-18-2004, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by HITMEN OF 77
When you think of a steroid athlete, I look at Bonds. When he was with the Pirates, I highly doubt he used roids, he was too small, now with SF look at him. He's huge. I don't care how much you do at the gym and how long you work out, someone with a Bonds like body type doesn't get that big without supplements.

Ditto Sosa... Compare his figure when he was with Texas to now... Barring the world's oldest growth spurt, something is awry.

DSpivack
02-18-2004, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
Ditto Sosa... Compare his figure when he was with Texas to now... Barring the world's oldest growth spurt, something is awry.

While I dislike Sosa and am indifferent to Bonds, I always liked McGwire [because the Cards are my 2nd faves, prolly]

But just looking at each of their physiques, as compared to someone like Frank's, who is and is not on steroids seems obvious.

mdep524
02-18-2004, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
How do you know Frank's not on 'roids? I'm not trying to start contoversy..... just asking. Frank's a big boy for an "all natural" athlete. If ShamME, Mac, and Barry are on 'roids, who says Frank isn't? And how do you know 100%?

Frank's a naturally big guy, and he's been huge ever since he was at Auburn- no Sosa-like growth spurts. Plus he is very outspoken against steroids, probably because he feels it undermines his natural advantage and de-legitimizes his power numbers, which he is very proud of and were acheived without juicing.

DSpivack
02-18-2004, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
Frank's a naturally big guy, and he's been huge ever since he was at Auburn- no Sosa-like growth spurts. Plus he is very outspoken against steroids, probably because he feels it undermines his natural advantage and de-legitimizes his power numbers, which he is very proud of and were acheived without juicing.

Reminds me of last year in spring training, with the whole issue of 'roids testing.

Kittle
02-18-2004, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
Frank's a naturally big guy, and he's been huge ever since he was at Auburn- no Sosa-like growth spurts. Plus he is very outspoken against steroids, probably because he feels it undermines his natural advantage and de-legitimizes his power numbers, which he is very proud of and were acheived without juicing.

Frank was a TE in college and had been pumping iron for some time when he came into the league. He's not much larger now than he was back then.

Sammy, on the other hand, was as skinny as a rail when he broke into the majors ('89?), looked like Hulk Hogan by '98, and suddenly wore a smaller hat, battled injuries, and was caught using a corked bat last year (coincidentally, when steroid testing was to begin). Hmmm...

Bisco Stu
02-18-2004, 04:48 AM
With 32 HR's and 110 ribbies in 04, Frank will be at 450 and 1500 respectively. Would like to see a higher average this year from him. His career average has dipped to .310 since 2000, his last good ba.

gosox41
02-18-2004, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
How do you know Frank's not on 'roids? I'm not trying to start contoversy..... just asking. Frank's a big boy for an "all natural" athlete. If ShamME, Mac, and Barry are on 'roids, who says Frank isn't? And how do you know 100%?

I don't think Frank is on steroids. He's always been a big guy, and he hasn't gotten bigger over the years. He seems too intelligent to take steroids. Also, I've seen his brother and he's not exactly thin.

Bob

gosox41
02-18-2004, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by DSpivack
Reminds me of last year in spring training, with the whole issue of 'roids testing.


I forgot that Frank has always been in favor of steroid testing. If he were juicing he wouldn't be in favor of outing himself.

Bob

gosox41
02-18-2004, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by Kittle
Frank was a TE in college and had been pumping iron for some time when he came into the league. He's not much larger now than he was back then.

Sammy, on the other hand, was as skinny as a rail when he broke into the majors ('89?), looked like Hulk Hogan by '98, and suddenly wore a smaller hat, battled injuries, and was caught using a corked bat last year (coincidentally, when steroid testing was to begin). Hmmm...

Are there any pictures out there comparing Sosa as a White Sox to Sosa today? I mean one where we can see the difference in how much bigger he got.

Bob

ode to veeck
02-18-2004, 07:12 AM
I have a couple of photos of Frank from his 1st year at the old Comiskey, he was certainly big then

Sammy was so skinny, he ran out 10 triples his 1st year as a starter in 1990 for the Sox

steff
02-18-2004, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I don't think Frank is on steroids. He's always been a big guy, and he hasn't gotten bigger over the years. He seems too intelligent to take steroids. Also, I've seen his brother and he's not exactly thin.

Bob


His father was a large man also. 6' 3" or 6' 4", IIRC.

Deadguy
02-18-2004, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Bisco Stu
status as the greatest hitter of the last 15 years?

I think so.

Note I said hitter, not all-around player.

Frank may not have Mac, Bonds and Sham-me's stats, but he's been the genuine article for all these years.

Integrity's got to count for something.

If Barroids truly is guilty, then it should.

Right now, Thomas is the second greatest hitter of his generation, but if Barry has been juiced up, there should be an asterick placed next to his post 2000 stats.

Steroids or not, Barry's the greatest player of this generation, but Thomas should go down as the greatest hitter.

Deadguy
02-18-2004, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
How do you know Frank's not on 'roids? I'm not trying to start contoversy..... just asking. Frank's a big boy for an "all natural" athlete. If ShamME, Mac, and Barry are on 'roids, who says Frank isn't? And how do you know 100%?

Frank came out in 2002, and stated that he'd be the first in line to take a steroid test.

Besides, what made/makes Frank a special hitter was his plate discipline. In 1990, he walked over 150 times between his time spent in the Minors and the Majors, and in 1991 and 1992, he led the league in OPS.

thepaulbowski
02-18-2004, 08:29 AM
Frank would be scary big if he used 'Roids. He's a baseball player in a tight ends body, naturally.

Brian26
02-18-2004, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Frank's a big boy for an "all natural" athlete. If ShamME, Mac, and Barry are on 'roids, who says Frank isn't? And how do you know 100%?

The only person that knows for 100% sure is Frank.

Yet, if any casual observer were to watch some of the games shown on ESPN Classic throughout the winter, they would see early 90's or late 80's video of a VERY skinny Sosa, McGwire, and Bonds.

Frank has maintained about the same weight and frame since the early 90's, getting slightly bigger with time. The changes in the 3 people mentioned above have been DRAMATIC.