PDA

View Full Version : My Idea to save baseball...


Tekijawa
02-16-2004, 11:06 AM
Make a Salary cap of say 30-40 million, maybe less, but that just counts for players that Weren't drafted by the team or haven' spent 2 years in the minors with the team or 3 years in the team system (Minors and Majors). The developmental "salary-cap", players that were either drafted by the team or have spent more than 2 years in the minors, would be limitless...

I think that this would encourage a player to stay with the same team. More money... and would put an end to the Yankees beating the Payroll of the entire AL CENTRAL. This would allow fans to actually have Favorite players on the team again for more than 2 seasons...

BASEBALL IS IN TROUBLE and it doesn't look to be getting any better anytime soon!

StepsInSC
02-16-2004, 11:17 AM
Thats way too drastic of a change to ever occur.

rahulsekhar
02-16-2004, 11:23 AM
and I'll say it again. Any proposal that doesn't have meaningful revenue sharing at it's heart will not solve the problem. As Daver's noted, that would need to be accompanied by independent oversight/audit to ensure that the $$s are accurate, but without revenue sharing, you'll have teams finding ways around whatever system you put in place. Especially since there will never be a hard cap (MLBPA won't allow it), and soft caps without revenue sharing invite high-revenue teams to go around them.

Go hire Pricewaterhousecoopers or Deloitte & Touche to put 32 auditors (1 for each team) on a fulltime basis to monitor financials. Then implement 75% revenue sharing and a salary floor. The lack of a cap enables teams to overspend if they want, but the revenue sharing evens the resource playing field and makes the disparity a lot less. This will drag salaries, but will make the game MUCH more competitive.

ewokpelts
02-16-2004, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Make a Salary cap of say 30-40 million, maybe less, but that just counts for players that Weren't drafted by the team or haven' spent 2 years in the minors with the team or 3 years in the team system (Minors and Majors). The developmental "salary-cap", players that were either drafted by the team or have spent more than 2 years in the minors, would be limitless...

I think that this would encourage a player to stay with the same team. More money... and would put an end to the Yankees beating the Payroll of the entire AL CENTRAL. This would allow fans to actually have Favorite players on the team again for more than 2 seasons...

BASEBALL IS IN TROUBLE and it doesn't look to be getting any better anytime soon!

I can see the Yankees getting around this, but it dosen't account for cheep owners(Jerry, anyone?). The Best model may be the NBA model, with limited flexibility. The only thingI dont like in the NBA's cba is that you cant just dump salary. You have to trade the same dollar ammount. This didnt really help the bulls in 01 0r 03 when they traded Rose in and out. I would have preferred to keep Donyell Marshall and Ron Artest.
Gene
Gene

gogosoxgogo
02-16-2004, 11:58 AM
The player's union will never allow that to happen. My solution would be for a stricter luxury tax and the revenues from those taxes more evenly distributed.

CubKilla
02-16-2004, 12:00 PM
Here's my idea.....

CONTRACT THE YANKEES

soxruleEP
02-16-2004, 01:30 PM
I've said this before and it seems to be the way to fix the problem, but when I suggest this, all anybody says is, it'll never happen. But here it goes again:

The reason that the Yankees can spend unlimited money is their local television revenue. Kansas City, Oakland, etc. cannot compete with that cash.

But who will the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. play when the small market teams are priced out of the game?

The quickest way to fix this is to share all local telvision revenue--put it all into one big pot and dole it out equally.

Then every one has the same starting point of revenue and the only difference is what they earn at the gate.

I have no problem with the Ynkees spending three times the money if they are spending it from their gate. What's unfair is that most teams have no hope of making the level of revenue that they can simply because they are not located in NYC.

If the only way to increase revenue is to improve your home gate--which is ALWAYS (except for idiot SCrub fans) tied to the success of your team, then teams will spend that revenue to improive their teams.

The Yankees will not be able to totally dominate all free agents, which is in fact the root of the problem. And please don't point to the Angels and The Marlins winning the Series as proof that the Yankees spending all that money doesn't pay off. How many series, League Championships, etc. in the past 15 years have they been to? It's all well and good for a fluke team to win one every few years but only big money makes a team a persistent contender. And the Yankees have signed the top free agen nearly every year since 1995--except for A-Rod.

And now they have him anyway--and for about what the Sox will pay Magglio this year.

kittle42
02-16-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Here's my idea.....

CONTRACT THE YANKEES

Give me Steinbrenner as my favorite team's owner every day of the week. If the Sox were doing what the Yankees do, no one here would be complaining.

MarkEdward
02-16-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Make a Salary cap of say 30-40 million, maybe less, but that just counts for players that Weren't drafted by the team or haven' spent 2 years in the minors with the team or 3 years in the team system (Minors and Majors). The developmental "salary-cap", players that were either drafted by the team or have spent more than 2 years in the minors, would be limitless...

Yes, because only large market teams with high payrolls can only compete. I mean, it's not like the Marlins won the World Series last year with a 40 million dollar payroll. And it's not like the Oakland A's continue to make the playoffs on a shoestring budget. And just forget about the low payroll Minnesota Twins and their two straight division titles. Also, don't bring up the fact that the Angels won the 2002 World Series with a 60 million dollar payroll.

A salary cap only ensures one thing, and I think Daver has made that thing abundantly clear.

I think that this would encourage a player to stay with the same team. More money... and would put an end to the Yankees beating the Payroll of the entire AL CENTRAL. This would allow fans to actually have Favorite players on the team again for more than 2 seasons...

I know many people like to think of the pre-free agent days of Major League Baseball as something of a 'golden age'- fans could relate to the players, players were more 'loyal.' That's a bunch of bull. Players didn't stay with their teams because they wanted to; in fact, the Reserve Clause made it clear that players were (more or less) indentured servants to their original ball club. Players had no say in where they could go, owners could buy and sell them on a whim, and the players were helpless against these practices. The players were forced to be loyal.

BASEBALL IS IN TROUBLE and it doesn't look to be getting any better anytime soon!

Yes, I'm sure a billion dollar industry is in a tremendous amount of trouble.

If people want to get rid of the Yankee 'problem' (though I'm not sure it's actually a problem), there's a simple solution: put another team in the New York area. This greatly reduces the market advantage the Yankees have over other clubs.

Dadawg_77
02-16-2004, 02:38 PM
The best thing for baseball is to have revenue sharing, with about 55% of the revenue going to the players. The owner 45% would be divided as such, 40% would be divided equally among the teams, the other 5% would be divided to the teams in playoffs. The Champs get more then the runner up, the loser of the LCS get less then runner up, and so forth. Same thing would happen with the players.

Tekijawa
02-16-2004, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I know many people like to think of the pre-free agent days of Major League Baseball as something of a 'golden age'- fans could relate to the players, players were more 'loyal.' That's a bunch of bull. Players didn't stay with their teams because they wanted to; in fact, the Reserve Clause made it clear that players were (more or less) indentured servants to their original ball club. Players had no say in where they could go, owners could buy and sell them on a whim, and the players were helpless against these practices. The players were forced to be loyal.

If the players wanted to leave then they could find a team that could "fit them" into their alloted money to be spent on FA's, but they would be encouraged to stay with their current teams because they could infact offer them the most money!



[i]Yes, I'm sure a billion dollar industry is in a tremendous amount of trouble.[/B]

I think it is when half the teams in the industry can't fill half a stadium when the Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs aren't in town! A billion dollar industry and 1/32 of the industry has 4X the payroll of Average teams and almost 7X the lowest! Explain to me how this is good for "a billion dollar industry". Steinbrenner is killing the golden goose!

MarkEdward
02-16-2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
If the players wanted to leave then they could find a team that could "fit them" into their alloted money to be spent on FA's, but they would be encouraged to stay with their current teams because they could infact offer them the most money!

Or we could stay with our current situation, where any team can go after almost any player of their choosing, without any hindrances.

Anyway, there's already a system in place where teams can keep their home-grown talent- it's called arbitration.

I think it is when half the teams in the industry can't fill half a stadium when the Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs aren't in town!

Well, in 2003, 20 teams had more than 50% capacity for their homes games. Aside from that little quibble, how would a salary cap fix alleged attendance problems?

A billion dollar industry and 1/32 of the industry has 4X the payroll of Average teams and almost 7X the lowest!

Well, seeing as though many of those low payroll teams can still compete, I don't see much of a problem.

34rancher
02-16-2004, 03:11 PM
As I have said for a while, I am done. Does anyone really care anymore? If so, why? The NBA is a joke. The NHL is ridiculous, and MLB is falling fast. Why should anyone care?

Tekijawa
02-16-2004, 03:36 PM
MARK...

Would you say that baseball is PERFECT right now?

What would you change if not?

I'd be interested how you would solve the "problem"? leave it alone and I think Fans will get lethargic with the current situation... What do I as a Whitesox fan have to look forward to when I know that we have 1/5th chance to lose to either the Yankees or Boston in the first round of the playoffs?

MarkEdward
02-16-2004, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
MARK...

Would you say that baseball is PERFECT right now?

What would you change if not?

No, I don't think baseball is perfect right now. However, I do think it's a great time to be a baseball fan. Never before in baseball's history has there been such an influx of talent like we've been seeing in the current years. Unlike in the earlier days, we now get to see players from all over the globe: Europe, Asia, Central America, South America, Australia, and so on. The talent level of the current ball players is amazing. Aside from this, we get to see some damn good players.

Barry Bonds is arguably the greatest hitter ever. By the time he retires, Alex Rodriguez may be the best all-around player to play the game. Throughout the 90s and 00s, we got to see three of the best pitchers in history: Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, and Pedro Martinez (heck, throw in Randy Johnson too).

Aside from all this, I love the fact that I can get baseball from anywhere. Right now, I go to school in Cleveland. With MLB Audio, I'll be able to listen to all the Sox games (as well as any other team) for fifteen bucks. During the summer, I order MLB Extra Innings, which gives me 10-14 games a night. A baseball fan's dream network.

Even if I hate MLB for some reason, I can catch a local minor league team, be it the Windy City Thunder, Joliet JackHammers, or Lake County Captains (local A-ball team near Cleveland). Minor league baseball has never been more prosperous.

For all these reasons above, I think it's a great time to be a fan of baseball. For what it's worth, this is a great post that sums up my ideas on this subject. From Baseball Primer, it's post 35:
http://www.baseballprimer.com/clutch/archives/00007991.shtml#35

But I do believe that some changes must be made. Here are a few of my ideas for improving the game:
- Sell the Expos already! What MLB is doing to that Montreal club is terrible. It's a much bigger travesty than the current Rodriguez controversy. Donald Watkins has been willing to buy an MLB team for a long time. He's also willing to privately finance his own stadium. Give Watkins the Expos and let him build Montreal a new park. If the Expos are winning, fans will come. They did from '77 to '83.
- Get teams in Brooklyn and Washington D.C. As I said before, another team in New York would lessen the Yankees' market advantage. If Washington was to get a team, they'd automatically become the fourth largest market in baseball. Baseball can expand, but if getting teams in these two places means moving Florida and Tampa Bay, so be it.
- Get Bud Selig out of office. His bumbling idiocy hurts the game in more ways than the rest of the owners and MLBPA combined.
These are just some of my ideas. Feel free to pick them apart if you'd like.

What do I as a Whitesox fan have to look forward to when I know that we have 1/5th chance to lose to either the Yankees or Boston in the first round of the playoffs?

I'm sure Diamondbacks' fans thought their team would lose to the Yankees in 2001. Same with Angels' fans in 2002. Same with Marlins' fans in 2003. They can be beat. Any team can be beat in a short series.

Anyway, as Sox fans, we should be worried about even making the playoffs.

Kuzman
02-16-2004, 05:33 PM
the only way to save baseball..

ASSASSINATE THE YANKEES

Daver
02-16-2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward

- Get Bud Selig out of office. His bumbling idiocy hurts the game in more ways than the rest of the owners and MLBPA combined.



Bumbling idiocy?

He has obviously fooled you too.

Bud Selig has managed to do what no other commisioner has ever been able to do,he has made the commisioners office the only voice for the league.He abolished the AL and NL presidents positions,because they were a threat to his power,he took down the umpires union,and replaceed it with one controlled from his office,so that he could control the officating of the game personally,he fired the only person that had a working relationship with Don Fehr and the MLBPA,Bob Dupuy,because he was able to get the respect of the players union.

Bud is far from the simple car salesman image he tries to portray,he knows exactly what he is doing.

Rex Hudler
02-16-2004, 06:53 PM
I will never attend another baseball game until things are fixed. (i.e. inequities in payrolls, Roid testing, ticket prices...)

In all seriousness, go see a few Minor League games. The game is affordable, the setting is more intimate and the players are fan friendly.

MarkEdward
02-16-2004, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Bumbling idiocy?

He has obviously fooled you too.

Bud Selig has managed to do what no other commisioner has ever been able to do,he has made the commisioners office the only voice for the league.He abolished the AL and NL presidents positions,because they were a threat to his power,he took down the umpires union,and replaceed it with one controlled from his office,so that he could control the officating of the game personally,he fired the only person that had a working relationship with Don Fehr and the MLBPA,Bob Dupuy,because he was able to get the respect of the players union.

Bud is far from the simple car salesman image he tries to portray,he knows exactly what he is doing.

I do understand that, deep down, Bud Selig is a smooth manipulator. However, I do stand by my "bumbling idiot" line. Just look and listen to him: stuttering, stammering speech, terrible posture, stupid phrases, etc. Some of his policies seem to have no point: expanding inter league play, re-aligning the divisions, giving Pete Rose the time of day, among other things. Don't get me started on his continuous lies to Congress, as well as his con schemes to get publicly funded stadiums for his owner buddies.

So, yes, I do agree that there's usually a method behind Bud's madness. "Bumbling idiot" was just my way of saying it. :smile:

doctor30th
02-16-2004, 09:38 PM
There is no way to save baseball really. Any real way would be rejected by both the MLBPA and MLB. No compromise will ever come close to fixing it either, just putting a band-aid on a broken leg.


Don't get me wrong baseball will be around for a long time. I don't think its actually ever going to go anywhere even in its messed up state.


And I agree with you about Selig, Daver.

Dadawg_77
02-17-2004, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by Daver

Bud is far from the simple car salesman image he tries to portray,he knows exactly what he is doing.

But what he is doing makes no sense. He constant efforts to demarket baseball hurt it tremendously. That is his greatest sin to the Game. He goes out and says the game is broken, not fixable, that only money wins and everyone else should stay home but kick some tax money for owners to build stadiums. His leading of the owners into a position of breaking the union instead of working corporately to improve the game. At least the Baseball Gods realize his sins and gave us the Angles, Marlins, A's and Marlins to put some egg on Bud's face.

Frater Perdurabo
02-17-2004, 09:00 AM
MLB needs to have an NFL-style CBA, cap and revenue sharing. The NFL is wildly successful in large part because of their business model. Of course the players union and the Yankees would hate it.

Dadawg_77
02-17-2004, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
MLB needs to have an NFL-style CBA, cap and revenue sharing. The NFL is wildly successful in large part because of their business model. Of course the players union and the Yankees would hate it.

I hate the NFL model. I think it takes away parity that the NFL claims to have. Teams may have bad years due to injury but if teams remain healthy you will always see the same teams competing for the title. There is only faux parity in the NFL. And football true strength in its popularity is the point spread.

StepsInSC
02-17-2004, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by 34rancher
As I have said for a while, I am done. Does anyone really care anymore? If so, why? The NBA is a joke. The NHL is ridiculous, and MLB is falling fast. Why should anyone care?

Because baseball has been my one true love my entire life, as is probably true for everyone on these boards. Thats whats great about the game, those who love it may be becoming a minority in the near future, but those who truly love the game are a unique breed. They realize what how crazy special this game is, that sometimes its impossible to put into words. I will always love this game, even at the professional level.

The MLB is going to be around for a long time to come. Radical changes may or may not happen, but as long as I can obtain that feeling of sitting at the ballpark in the summer (even if its not behind the team I love most), which cannot be described or obtained any other way, then I will blindly follow this game.

It may not be perfect, but its better than anything else we have.