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BeerHandle
02-14-2004, 01:42 PM
Did anyone hear Hawk on the Score during the voices of baseball special on Saturday? I love this guy, but he was so upbeat about the team. Early in the interview he almost had me sold, but he lost me when he talked so positively about Willie Harris and Aaron Rowand!

Hawk is a great voice and I enjoy listening to him, but he needs to stop being a company man!!!

CubKilla
02-14-2004, 01:49 PM
:reinsy

"Hawk will continue to say what I tell him to say as long as I sign his paychecks."

BeerHandle
02-14-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
:reinsy

"Hawk will continue to say what I tell him to say as long as I sign his paychecks."

I love it!!!!

SEALgep
02-14-2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
Did anyone hear Hawk on the Score during the voices of baseball special on Saturday? I love this guy, but he was so upbeat about the team. Early in the interview he almost had me sold, but he lost me when he talked so positively about Willie Harris and Aaron Rowand!

Hawk is a great voice and I enjoy listening to him, but he needs to stop being a company man!!! Why shouldn't he be upbeat about them? They are going to be solid players. Both will play very good defense, and their offense will be there as well. I suspect Rowand will be a .275 hitter with about 20 homeruns. I'm excited about these guys and I don't get paid a dime.

BeerHandle
02-14-2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Why shouldn't he be upbeat about them? They are going to be solid players. Both will play very good defense, and their offense will be there as well. I suspect Rowand will be a .275 hitter with about 20 homeruns. I'm excited about these guys and I don't get paid a dime.

I'm a season ticket holder, but am not as upbeat as you are! How many wins do you predict and will the Sox make the playoffs?

CubKilla
02-14-2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Why shouldn't he be upbeat about them? They are going to be solid players. Both will play very good defense, and their offense will be there as well. I suspect Rowand will be a .275 hitter with about 20 homeruns. I'm excited about these guys and I don't get paid a dime.

Rowand better not start off '04 like he did '03 and Harris hasn't showed me anything to be excited about since his first ML game for the Sox. Harris has been downhill after that.

BeerHandle
02-14-2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Rowand better not start off '04 like he did '03 and Harris hasn't showed me anything to be excited about since his first ML game for the Sox. Harris has been downhill after that.

Hawk was talking about how much range the Sox have gained with Rowand and Harris. They may have range, but can they pay the game?

SEALgep
02-14-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
I'm a season ticket holder, but am not as upbeat as you are! How many wins do you predict and will the Sox make the playoffs? 88-92 wins I believe as of now. It's really hard to say about wins though. I do think we win the AL Central, so yes to the second part.

CubKilla
02-14-2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
Hawk was talking about how much range the Sox have gained with Rowand and Harris. They may have range, but can they pay the game?

:reinsy

"I'm not concerned with how well they play the game. I'm just happy that they play the game at a price I like."

BeerHandle
02-14-2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
88-92 wins I believe as of now. It's really hard to say about wins though. I do think we win the AL Central, so yes to the second part.

I hope it happens! I'm printing this thread to remind me of your prediction......

SEALgep
02-14-2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Rowand better not start off '04 like he did '03 and Harris hasn't showed me anything to be excited about since his first ML game for the Sox. Harris has been downhill after that. Rowand's healthy now, so there's no reason to suspect he will. As far as Harris, he hasn't been given a chance to show anything. He has had spot starts out of position, with limited, sparatic at bats. Not only that, but JM was having him bunt all the time, while when he batted .400 in AAA, he was hitting line drives all over the place. He needs to be able to get used to the different pitchers, but there's no reason to believe he can't adjust to it, especially with Guillen in the manager's spot.

BeerHandle
02-14-2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Rowand's healthy now, so there's no reason to suspect he will. As far as Harris, he hasn't been given a chance to show anything. He has had spot starts out of position, with limited, sparatic at bats. Not only that, but JM was having him bunt all the time, while when he batted .400 in AAA, he was hitting line drives all over the place. He needs to be able to get used to the different pitchers, but there's no reason to believe he can't adjust to it, especially with Guillen in the manager's spot.

I will say that Harris can bunt....

SEALgep
02-14-2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
I hope it happens! I'm printing this thread to remind me of your prediction...... Lol, well it better be right then, huh? Regardless of wins, I still think we have the best chance to win the Central. Nothing's a lock, but the Royals seem to think it is. The Royals have the best chance to compete with us, but they have their fair share of question marks as well. The only reason they even came close last year was because they stunned everyone with like a 30-10 record. That will be hard to accomplish again, especially since they won't be sneaking up on anyone. We'll see how it plays out, but their pitching has more holes than ours, in my opinion.

BeerHandle
02-14-2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Lol, well it better be right then, huh? Regardless of wins, I still think we have the best chance to win the Central. Nothing's a lock, but the Royals seem to think it is. The Royals have the best chance to compete with us, but they have their fair share of question marks as well. The only reason they even came close last year was because they stunned everyone with like a 30-10 record. That will be hard to accomplish again, especially since they won't be sneaking up on anyone. We'll see how it plays out, but their pitching has more holes than ours, in my opinion.

Who is our 5th starter?

SEALgep
02-14-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
Who is our 5th starter? Right now, it's probably a battle between Rauch and Grilli with some other outside possibilities. Those outside possibilities (Cotts, Wright, ect..) will be front liners if those two don't work out most likely. Oh ya, Diaz has thrown pretty well and is also a consideration. The only knock on him is if he has enough innings pitched to be sure his endurance over the course of a season will allow him to hold up. I think Rauch, Diaz, or Grilli can be a 10 game winner though, as long as they are consistent.

BeerHandle
02-14-2004, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Right now, it's probably a battle between Rauch and Grilli with some other outside possibilities. Those outside possibilities (Cotts, Wright, ect..) will be front liners if those two don't work out most likely. Oh ya, Diaz has thrown pretty well and is also a consideration. The only knock on him is if he has enough innings pitched to be sure his endurance over the course of a season will allow him to hold up. I think Rauch, Diaz, or Grilli can be a 10 game winner though, as long as they are consistent.

10 game winner.......we will see. As you can tell. I'm pretty down on the Sox.

SEALgep
02-14-2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
10 game winner.......we will see. As you can tell. I'm pretty down on the Sox. Lol, cheer up. At least let them show you they can't win before you get depressed. No one knows what's going to happen, but regardles of what other people say, this team has talent. With Guillen, I think the talent will be included with a desire to win. It may not work, but they have to prove that to me first.

Lip Man 1
02-14-2004, 04:40 PM
Seal:

88-92 wins I believe as of now. It's really hard to say about wins though. I do think we win the AL Central, so yes to the second part.

TIME FOR A REALITY CHECK......

Try 82 wins at least that's a 'winning' season and that's the best we can hope for (plus the Cubs not making the playoffs.)

With holes at 2b, CF, C (Olivo can't hit for squat), the back end of the rotation, the right side of the bullpen and an inexperienced manager who apparently has already turned off at least one of his players, 88 - 92 wins will only take place in a fantasy league.

And since we're talking about numbers.....

83 - 79

That's the AVERAGE White Sox record the past six years. The trend to mediocrity will make it a 'lucky 7.'

Lip

SEALgep
02-14-2004, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Seal:

88-92 wins I believe as of now. It's really hard to say about wins though. I do think we win the AL Central, so yes to the second part.

TIME FOR A REALITY CHECK......

Try 82 wins at least that's a 'winning' season and that's the best we can hope for (plus the Cubs not making the playoffs.)

With holes at 2b, CF, C (Olivo can't hit for squat), the back end of the rotation, the right side of the bullpen and an inexperienced manager who apparently has already turned off at least one of his players, 88 - 92 wins will only take place in a fantasy league.

And since we're talking about numbers.....

83 - 79

That's the AVERAGE White Sox record the past six years. The trend to mediocrity will make it a 'lucky 7.'

Lip I think my sense of reality is a little more intact. Pessimists at least have a glass is half empty approach to life. It seems to me that you think the glass is completely empty and then broken from JR throwing it against a brick wall. Every hole your talking about isn't a for sure bust as you so advocated several times. We can debate, AGAIN, about the players we have and the manager with no experience as a manager, but the fact is you cannot for certain state that these guys won't show up to play. I like our chances. I'm intertested in what your views are of the Royals and Twins. Maybe we'll finally hear some optimism, but none we'll want to hear, lol.

Lip Man 1
02-15-2004, 01:52 AM
The Royals pitching remains an open question but the A. L. Central is so weak that even the 119 loss Tigers dream of contention.

The Twins parted with their top two relievers, and three starting pitchers. The White Sox lost Colon and failed to make any upgrades. The Indians are at least a year away and the Tigers while more respectable, still can't be considered a factor.

Add Tony Pena and right now I like Kansas City.

Can the Sox win the division? Sure...I actually expect them to hang around until August / September but they aren't going to get 92 wins...that's ludricrous. Then it's three strikes and out against the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels or Mariners. (take your pick...)

But at least we'll have tied the record for postseason home futility with 10 straight losses! (currently owned by the Phillies)

Lip

Fungo
02-15-2004, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Can the Sox win the division? Sure...I actually expect them to hang around until August / September but they aren't going to get 92 wins...that's ludricrous. Then it's three strikes and out against the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels or Mariners. (take your pick...)
Lip
This is my contention exactly. We'll hang around in the division race, Kenny will make a couple of moves, we'll loose a couple more prospects depleting our farm system even further, maybe win the division and then take it on the chin in the playoffs against the aforementioned teams. Oh yeah, we'll finish high enough to get ourselves a pick in the later part of the draft and loose the players we picked up before the trade deadline to free agency. But hey, maybe we can win the AL freakin' Central. Whoopty doo.

Lip Man 1
02-15-2004, 01:48 PM
Actually this year's A.L. Comedy Central race could turn out a lot like the 1973 National League East, won by the Mets the final day of the regular season when they beat the Cubs at Wrigley Field.

I think the Mets had 83 or 84 wins which is the fewest amount ever to get to the post season.

The only difference is that unlike the Mets, the Comedy Central winner won't be getting to the World Series because the Comedy Central winner doesn't have Tom Seaver and Jerry Koosman for the playoffs and would have to upset TWO goliath's' in the Yanks and BoSox.

Lip

rahulsekhar
02-15-2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Fungo
This is my contention exactly. We'll hang around in the division race, Kenny will make a couple of moves, we'll loose a couple more prospects depleting our farm system even further, maybe win the division and then take it on the chin in the playoffs against the aforementioned teams. Oh yeah, we'll finish high enough to get ourselves a pick in the later part of the draft and loose the players we picked up before the trade deadline to free agency. But hey, maybe we can win the AL freakin' Central. Whoopty doo.

While I can't argue that results have not been there, I wouldn't exactly ssay KW's "depleted" our system with trades. There was 2 bad trade (Ritchie for Wells/Fogg), but the rest of the guys he's dealt (Ring, Myette, Liefer, Biddle) haven't exactly been our supposed studs.

IMO the "decline" of our farm system is tied directly to failure by a few players the past few years: Borchard, Rauch, Garland, Wright. And all of them are still around.

Daver
02-15-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar


IMO the "decline" of our farm system is tied directly to failure by a few players the past few years: Borchard, Rauch, Garland, Wright. And all of them are still around.

Garland didn't come from the Sox farm system.

SEALgep
02-15-2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Garland didn't come from the Sox farm system. Daver, out of curiousity, because I don't know, how did we come by him?

Daver
02-15-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Daver, out of curiousity, because I don't know, how did we come by him?

He was acquired from the Cubs in exchange for Matt Karchner.

rahulsekhar
02-15-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Daver
He was acquired from the Cubs in exchange for Matt Karchner.

I included him because he came over as a prospect. True that he would not be considered totally "homegrown" however.

Still - if he'd developed as initially thought, we'd be looking at a very different WhiteSox scenario and likely talking differently about our ability to develop pitchers.

BeerHandle
02-16-2004, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Actually this year's A.L. Comedy Central race could turn out a lot like the 1973 National League East, won by the Mets the final day of the regular season when they beat the Cubs at Wrigley Field.

I think the Mets had 83 or 84 wins which is the fewest amount ever to get to the post season.

The only difference is that unlike the Mets, the Comedy Central winner won't be getting to the World Series because the Comedy Central winner doesn't have Tom Seaver and Jerry Koosman for the playoffs and would have to upset TWO goliath's' in the Yanks and BoSox.

Lip

Anything can happen once you get in the playoffs. Just give the fans something to get excited about!

Randar68
02-16-2004, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Garland didn't come from the Sox farm system.

And to be fair, his whole career save about 1 minor league (IIRC)season has been with the Sox.


To address a few earlier points:

1) Rowand and Harris. I have a lot more confidence that Harris can become a valuable every-day contributor than Aaron Rowand
2) Range, accurate arm, or excellent defense are all words that should not be associated with Aaron Rowand. Better defensive player in CF than Carl Everett? No question, but don't get carried away here.

3) Liptak: Olivo came straight from AA, where, in his repeat year there, put up outstanding numbers across the board after adjusting. How you can place any kind of judgement on his ability to improve is silly. He has a very short stroke and with some better patience, something he improved upon drastically in the minor leagues the past few seasons

Realistic numbers from Olivo: .260 - 14 - 60.

I think those are VERY fair numbers and I think that is about the middle range of what one could expect out of him. I don't think it a stretch in the least if someone told me they thought he'd hit .275-.280 this year. Take off the pessimism glasses and have a little cup of reality. Rowand and Harris, I'm not expecting anything more than about .275 out of either, and we'd be lucky if they both hit in that range, IMO, but Catcher is the least of our worries in terms of offensive output. I expect different from 2B and CF. At least get me OBP from those positions.

rcescato
02-16-2004, 09:45 AM
I believe we will win the divsion. I say 88-90 wins is
very possible. The #5 starter is a close call and I believe
Danny Wright has the leg up but remember how Neil Cotts
was cure all last year. I hope he is as good as they say.
Rich

SEALgep
02-16-2004, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by rcescato
I believe we will win the divsion. I say 88-90 wins is
very possible. The #5 starter is a close call and I believe
Danny Wright has the leg up but remember how Neil Cotts
was cure all last year. I hope he is as good as they say.
Rich No one is questioning his stuff, he just had major control issues when being brought up. He kind of had a not so good offseason as well, but he was working on a new cutter. With that in mind, it doesn't necessarily eliminate him as an option, but my guess is that they are planning on giving him another year in the minors. It will probably do him some good, and if he can get back on track, we should have a good solid lefty pitcher in him.



Neal Cotts – 23 – LHP, Starter Stats: 0-2, 4.64 ERA, 6 GS, 21.1 INN, 24 H, 19 K, 8 BBNeal Cotts had a very interesting season. Cotts was one of the most dominant left handed pitchers in the minors, and eventually found his way to the South Side of Chicago where he made a few starts before being sent down. After being sent down, Cotts struggled causing at least a few people to worry. The Sox sent Cotts, who missed five starts in the middle of the season due to shoulder soreness, to Arizona to try and work on his control (his main weakness) and to add a cutter to his repetoire. While his numbers don’t stand out, you have to remember that Arizona inflates a pitchers ERA. Mix that with the fact he was working on a new pitch and his ERA was very respectable. Cotts has an outside chance 5th spot in the starting rotation, but will most likely begin the season in Charlotte.