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Man Soo Lee
02-13-2004, 08:12 PM
In the Mariotti thread, several posters insisted that Graffanino left over playing time not money. I don't believe that's true.

In the WGN interview the week before Soxfest, KW said that he would have liked to keep Tony and first tried to re-sign him last September. At the time, Graffanino wanted to pursue a starting job elsewhere. KW said that Tony wasn't able to find a full-time job, but that Kansas City offered more than he was willing (able?) to pay.

In the press release (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/kc/news/kc_news.jsp?ymd=20031214&content_id=618218&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp) announcing the signing on the KC site, Tony Pena says that Relaford is the starting 2B. It also contains this passage:

The Royals project that Graffanino, even as a utility player, will get enough at-bats to stay sharp.

"I don't want to say 400 at-bats, but more than 200, there's no doubt about it," Baird said. "Because of his versatility."

Tony had 250 at-bats last year.

The latest issue of ESPN magazine states that Graffanino got $2.2M over 2 years from KC, while the Sox offered $850,000.

So for $250,000 per year, we lost our best option to start at 2B (or SS) against lefties, to lead off against lefties, to backup 3B, and to replace Harris if he fails.

awesomefan
02-13-2004, 08:44 PM
I love it when other Sox fans defend Tony Graffanino & wish we had him back.

Thanks! Tony was my favorite current Sox player since Herbert Perry was given no respect & got sent to the Rangers.

cwsox
02-13-2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by awesomefan
I love it when other Sox fans defend Tony Graffanino & wish we had him back.

Thanks! Tony was my favorite current Sox player since Herbert Perry was given no respect & got sent to the Rangers.

the only reason I am posting this is to throw some love awesomefan's way

awesomefan
02-13-2004, 09:27 PM
Thanks for the love cwsox. I guess you made it to the SoxFest this year.

I wasn't feelin' too perky & just didn't have much excitement for the fest this year.

I mean Frank & Magglio not being there & Tony & Herbert gettin' the boot & all the cool players goin' anywhere but with the Sox.

But, I on can't wait for Spring Training games on TV & then the real thang......PLAY BALL

munchman33
02-14-2004, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by Man Soo Lee
So for $250,000 per year, we lost our best option to start at 2B (or SS) against lefties, to lead off against lefties, to backup 3B, and to replace Harris if he fails.

Not exactly. We only offered him one year. Giving a utility player a multi-year deal worth over a million a year isn't very smart when his production is so much easier to replace cheaply than an everyday player.

HITMEN OF 77
02-14-2004, 04:08 AM
I liked Tony G and wish we had him as well, but you can only have so many infielders on a squad, and I think what we have now with Uribe, he's a better defense wise, than Tony G. $850,000 is a lot of money for a guy who only gets about 200 at bats a year.

Man Soo Lee
02-14-2004, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by munchman33
...his production is so much easier to replace cheaply than an everyday player.

Then I wish KW had done so. Graffanino was particularly valuable to the Sox because of the flaws of our starting infielders. Valentin's struggles against lefties are well documented and Harris has been pathetic in his few opportunities against them. So, giving Uribe the benefit of the doubt, we have one middle infielder worthy of being in the lineup against lefties. Don't worry though, that's only about a quarter of the season.

Besides Crede, Valentin is our only player with experience at 3B. Will resting Crede mean our starting SS has to play out of position? Wouldn't it be nice to know what plan B is if Harris fails?

I understand we can't throw money around like Kansas City, but Graffanino will be missed.

SEALgep
02-14-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Man Soo Lee
Then I wish KW had done so. Graffanino was particularly valuable to the Sox because of the flaws of our starting infielders. Valentin's struggles against lefties are well documented and Harris has been pathetic in his few opportunities against them. So, giving Uribe the benefit of the doubt, we have one middle infielder worthy of being in the lineup against lefties. Don't worry though, that's only about a quarter of the season.

Besides Crede, Valentin is our only player with experience at 3B. Will resting Crede mean our starting SS has to play out of position? Wouldn't it be nice to know what plan B is if Harris fails?

I understand we can't throw money around like Kansas City, but Graffanino will be missed. I'm not sure what they are planning for third base, but I bet Uribe could play it as well as Graff could. I like Graff a lot, but we now have a better defensively utility man (not that Graff was bad, because he was good). Graff could hit pretty well for coming off the bench with spot starts, but before we label Uribe as a hopeless hitter, it should be mentioned that he is 24 (and a lot of time to be groomed), he's making $300,000 (instead of a million), he has said to of been trying too hard to hit for power in Coor's Field and if hitting for contact could do far better, Colorado's manager told Guillen that he will probably fair much better here than in Colorado because we have a spanish speaking manager, and (although I still like Graff) Uribe has the potential to take over as a starting shortstop in the future. He's already improved his hitting in winter ball. He has to continually improve, but there's no reason to suspect he won't. All in all, he is a good replacement for Graff as we stand here today. KW has also stated that if we need something throughout the year, we would get it. If Harris for some reason can't cut it, then Uribe could take it, and we could sign or bring up another utility man-or second baseman if one is available. I'm just pointing out that Uribe isn't some scrub, and has a high ceiling if all goes well.

beckett21
02-14-2004, 03:24 PM
[i]Originally posted by Man Soo Lee

I understand we can't throw money around like Kansas City, but Graffanino will be missed.

That statement is SCREAMING for teal!!!

I thought we were going for grinders ...that was Graff personafied. Uribe is a major question-mark in my mind. He was uber-hyped in Colorado and didn't do squat. I suppose we should give him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think he is the answer to any of our problems. Graffanino was a solid utility player...not a key player but valuable. I will miss him.

My un-educated guess is that Uribe will be Jimenez-lite--ACK!

SEALgep
02-14-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
That statement is SCREAMING for teal!!!

I thought we were going for grinders ...that was Graff personafied. Uribe is a major question-mark in my mind. He was uber-hyped in Colorado and didn't do squat. I suppose we should give him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think he is the answer to any of our problems. Graffanino was a solid utility player...not a key player but valuable. I will miss him.

My un-educated guess is that Uribe will be Jimenez-lite--ACK! I think everyone will miss him, but you have to ask yourself, is he worth a little over a million a year for a guy who isn't ever going to be a starter for you. Uribe and Jimenez are way different. No one on the Sox wanted Jimenez around. He could hit, and still can, but the defense lost us more than a couple games. Uribe can play defense very well, and has more upside do to the fact that he may develop into a starter for us. He's only making $300,000. Granted this shouldn't be completely about money, but it's not like we didn't try to keep Graff around. Graff was a valuable piece, but he moved on, and we will too. I expect Uribe to fill the void well.

santo=dorf
02-14-2004, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Noone on the Sox wanted Jimenez around. He could hit, and still can, but the defense lost us more than a couple games.

Don't forget that base running blunder that costed a game and a sweep in Minnesota last year.

SEALgep
02-14-2004, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by santo=dorf
Don't forget that base running blunder that costed a game and a sweep in Minnesota last year. How could I forget.

Lip Man 1
02-14-2004, 04:27 PM
For what it's worth:

In a story last month Joe Cowley of the Daily Southtown called Uribe a poor man's D'Angelo Jimenez after talking with some of his former teammates on the Rockies.

The general consensus from them was that he had talent but was lazy and something of a pain in the ass.

He'll fit right into the Sox clubhouse won't he?

Lip

beckett21
02-14-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
For what it's worth:

In a story last month Joe Cowley of the Daily Southtown called Uribe a poor man's D'Angelo Jimenez after talking with some of his former teammates on the Rockies.

The general consensus from them was that he had talent but was lazy and something of a pain in the ass.

He'll fit right into the Sox clubhouse won't he?

Lip

Precisely what my understanding of him was...do we really need another one of those?

SEALgep
02-14-2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
For what it's worth:

In a story last month Joe Cowley of the Daily Southtown called Uribe a poor man's D'Angelo Jimenez after talking with some of his former teammates on the Rockies.

The general consensus from them was that he had talent but was lazy and something of a pain in the ass.

He'll fit right into the Sox clubhouse won't he?

Lip If that's the case, then that will be disappointing. But the Rockies manager did state that he thought he would fair better with us then he did with them. Guillen, I believe will help be able to turn him around offensively, and if need be attitude wise as well. If not, then he won't be around very long. The skills are present, and if he can develop some plate discipline and work hard under Guillen, he could be very worthwhile. Let's at least see what happens, what do you say?

patbooyah
02-14-2004, 10:16 PM
.. that guillen can speak uribe's language. one of the major bones of contention in the rockie dugout was that uribe didn't (want to?) speak english that well.

since half of the sox team seems to speak a spanish, maybe he will be a better fit here? he surely will like (fit into?) the neighborhood better than colorado.

voodoochile
02-14-2004, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by patbooyah
.. that guillen can speak uribe's language. one of the major bones of contention in the rockie dugout was that uribe didn't (want to?) speak english that well.

since half of the sox team seems to speak a spanish, maybe he will be a better fit here? he surely will like (fit into?) the neighborhood better than colorado.

Hey, Welcome Aboard! :D: