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lowesox
02-12-2004, 12:54 PM
Here's my biggest beef with the White Sox. Every year at this time, I'm usually primed ready for the start of spring training.
Even in the rebuilding years, I was excited because even though you could tell we probably weren't going to win the division, there was a lot of optimism about which direction the team was going in.

This year, I'm not excited at all.

Because (and I really hope I'm wrong here) I think this year will be the season that shows Sox management it's time to rebuild again.

I would be excited if they had only done one of these three things:

1) Beef up for a championship (and spend some money)
2) Make smart trades and free agent signings to fill holes without taking on a ton of payroll. (If the Sox think they did this - they didn't.)
3) Rebuild

Any one of those three would have done for me. But since we did nothing but get worse, I feel this year is just going to be another wasted year.

So I'm not excited at all. Anybody else feel this way?

SEALgep
02-12-2004, 12:59 PM
Not me.

chisoxmike
02-12-2004, 01:04 PM
Not yet.

This is the year that can make or break the team. If they do well, I think management will probably build the team "up" in the offseasons seeking more division titles and possible championships. If our Sox do poorly, management might decide to fire sale and rebuild.

sas1974
02-12-2004, 01:11 PM
I CANNOT WAIT!! I agree that if you're thinking of this as the year BEFORE they decide to rebuild, that would not be much fun. Personally, I will be excited until I have a DEFINITIVE reason not to be (ie - 5 wins in April or something like that).

sas1974
02-12-2004, 01:12 PM
I will add that I have been more excited in recent years past though.

chisoxmike
02-12-2004, 01:13 PM
I'm with you, until they start sucking it up 2002 style (post-Yankees sweep at home), I'm on board with our '04 Sox!!!

Baby Fisk
02-12-2004, 01:18 PM
It's not dread, it's just not optimism. It's fretting. I'm fretting about seeing the team tank in April/May for a myriad of reasons and a long, painful summer ensues. Not fun. :(:

On the plus side, expectations are really low. Look at how many people are already saying that this will be a dud year and provoke a new round of rebuilding.

SoxxoS
02-12-2004, 01:19 PM
I personally think

:chickenlittle

SEALgep
02-12-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
It's not dread, it's just not optimism. It's fretting. I'm fretting about seeing the team tank in April/May for a myriad of reasons and a long, painful summer ensues. Not fun. :(:

On the plus side, expectations are really low. Look at how many people are already saying that this will be a dud year and provoke a new round of rebuilding. Whose saying it, "baseball experts." That's not a shot at you, but some of these experts on t.v. really don't know what their talking about. Minnesota has lost even more than us, and have their own first baseman talking about how this season is pretty much shot, yet they are the favorites. Fine, I can see outside people saying the Royals are the favorites, but the Twins? I just don't see it, and I think the Royals have just as many holes as anyone else in the division.

Hokiesox
02-12-2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Here's my biggest beef with the White Sox. Every year at this time, I'm usually primed ready for the start of spring training.
Even in the rebuilding years, I was excited because even though you could tell we probably weren't going to win the division, there was a lot of optimism about which direction the team was going in.

This year, I'm not excited at all.

Because (and I really hope I'm wrong here) I think this year will be the season that shows Sox management it's time to rebuild again.

I would be excited if they had only done one of these three things:

1) Beef up for a championship (and spend some money)
2) Make smart trades and free agent signings to fill holes without taking on a ton of payroll. (If the Sox think they did this - they didn't.)
3) Rebuild

Any one of those three would have done for me. But since we did nothing but get worse, I feel this year is just going to be another wasted year.

So I'm not excited at all. Anybody else feel this way?

It's like being a Blackhawks fan, we all know the feeling real well.

delben91
02-12-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Hokiesox
It's like being a Blackhawks fan, we all know the feeling real well.

I feel that, make mine a third vote for feeling that way.

Baby Fisk
02-12-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Whose saying it, "baseball experts." That's not a shot at you, but some of these experts on t.v. really don't know what their talking about. Minnesota has lost even more than us, and have their own first baseman talking about how this season is pretty much shot, yet they are the favorites. Fine, I can see outside people saying the Royals are the favorites, but the Twins? I just don't see it, and I think the Royals have just as many holes as anyone else in the division.

That's why I'm fretting. It's not like you can point to one team and say -- "Yeah, they are gunna whup ass this year." This division is totally unpredictable. Anyone could bottom out worse than Detroit, but also anyone could take off and surprise. That's why they play the games. :cool:

SEALgep
02-12-2004, 01:31 PM
Exactly

sas1974
02-12-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
That's why I'm fretting. It's not like you can point to one team and say -- "Yeah, they are gunna whup ass this year." This division is totally unpredictable. Anyone could bottom out worse than Detroit, but also anyone could take off and surprise. That's why they play the games. :cool:

I think that as long as we play the game the right way, we'll be just fine. :D:

MisterB
02-12-2004, 01:38 PM
I do have a sense of anticipation about the upcoming season, but it's that freight-train-hurtling-towards-the-stalled-car-on-the-tracks kind of anticipation. (And the Sox are NOT the freight train...)

SoxxoS
02-12-2004, 01:55 PM
As far as I'm concerned, it's better we don't have high expectations. The higher up we are (like at the beginning of last season) the harder we fall. We aren't expecting much, so we won't be dissapointed.

lowesox
02-12-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
As far as I'm concerned, it's better we don't have high expectations. The higher up we are (like at the beginning of last season) the harder we fall. We aren't expecting much, so we won't be dissapointed.

I think it's good to have low expectations as long as the players are big on potential. And I think this team has a few guys who we should expect to be better this year like Jon Garland, Konerko, Koch, Crede and Danny Wright.

But I think there are also a lot of players we don't justify high expectations like Loaiza (because of career numbers), Politte, Takatsu, Harris maybe even Thomas (because of how his numbers bounce up and down).

I don't know. I hope some of you optimists are right. I think 2000 was a year where nobody expected much and things went right, but I think that was because of a lot of players who exceeded expectations.

Foulke You
02-12-2004, 02:50 PM
Well, if anything this season promises to have a different look and feel to it. Here are some things we can look forward to seeing (whether any of it is good or not remains to be seen):

1. No more Tinkering from Manuel or falling asleep in the dugout while Dan Wright gives up his 7th earned run in 2 1/3 innings.

2. Willie Harris and Aaron Rowand. This season will settle the constant WSI debate about whether they suck or not. :D:

3. The first Japanese player in White Sox history and the best reliever Japan has to offer get to prove he can get MLB hitters out.

4. A louder more intimate Comiskey Park (Cell).

5. Ozzie Guillen quotes in the newspaper should prove to be entertaining to say the least, especially during the crosstown series.

6. New Metrodome turf!!! No more ping pong hits!! :smile:

7. Frank Thomas continuing his HR stroke from '03.

8. Billy Koch trying to find that 7 mph he misplaced last season.

9. Loaiza out to prove last year's 21 wins was no fluke.

10. Buehrle out to prove that last year's 2W-10L start WAS a fluke.


With all that entertaining stuff I just mentioned as well as plenty of other things that I didn't mention...how the heck can you as a White Sox/baseball fan NOT be excited about the upcoming season?! :cool:

delben91
02-12-2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
how the heck can you as a White Sox/baseball fan NOT be excited about the upcoming season?! :cool:

Despite my personal doubts about the Sox this year, and their ability to compete, I must admit that I'm excited about the season starting, if only because I just love baseball...at least I will so long as the Sox avoid one of those "5 win Aprils" ...in which case there's always :gulp:

sas1974
02-12-2004, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
With all that entertaining stuff I just mentioned as well as plenty of other things that I didn't mention...how the heck can you as a White Sox/baseball fan NOT be excited about the upcoming season?! :cool:

I sincerely can't wait for the season to start. As you mentioned, if nothing else, this year is going to be interesting. It could turn into a Soap Opera or a Car Wreck, but it's going to be entertaining.

aside: Foulke You must be in Web IT w/ the phrase "look and feel."

Chisox_cali
02-12-2004, 03:18 PM
I'm ALWAYS excited for the season

:gulp:

SoxxoS
02-12-2004, 03:26 PM
I am hoping to see Ozzie Guillen set some sort of "cliche" record in his tenure. Look for:

"We are going to give 110%" (I absolutely hate when people say that),

"Take it day by day"

"Take it one game at a time."

"They must capitalize on their opportunities.

It wasn't pretty but we'll take it.

A win is a win.

Everyone counted us out before the season started

I was just doing my job.

This team/our guys shows a lot of character.

This team/our guys shows a lot of poise.

This team/our guys shows a lot of pride.

This team/our guys shows a lot of resiliency.

This team/our guys shows a lot of heart.

I take full responsibility for this loss.

We didn't get the job done.

My hat's off to them.

I tip my hat to them.

You've got to hand it to them.

Give them all the credit.

Clarkdog
02-12-2004, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by lowesox

I don't know. I hope some of you optimists are right. I think 2000 was a year where nobody expected much and things went right, but I think that was because of a lot of players who exceeded expectations.

I was going to say the exact same thing. I remember in 2000, expectations were low - relative to the strength of the Indians at the time. Yet the Sox came out that season and surprised with enthusiasm and a hunger to win.

That is what has been missing the last three seasons for me. If Ozzie can bring that energy to the dugout and it can carry on to the field -we're going to win a lot more than we'll lose, and that will be good enough to win the division.

mantis1212
02-12-2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You

6. New Metrodome turf!!! No more ping pong hits!! :smile:

I never heard about this, anybody have any details? If it's truly much softer that's huge! Why would they take away their biggest avantage?

Baby Fisk
02-12-2004, 04:02 PM
Don't forget metrodome still has those air vents that have some people in knots. :D:

lowesox
02-12-2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Clarkdog
If Ozzie can bring that energy to the dugout and it can carry on to the field -we're going to win a lot more than we'll lose, and that will be good enough to win the division.

A day or two ago somebody started a thread about who is key to the sox - I voted Konerko - but now I'm rethinking that. You make a good point: Guillen is crutial. Because if he can get more from the lolligagers then we might be in decent shape.

sas1974
02-12-2004, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by mantis1212
I never heard about this, anybody have any details? If it's truly much softer that's huge! Why would they take away their biggest avantage?

I think they are going to use that Astro Play stuff. It's more like shag carpeting, but I think it can be slick at times.

ChiSox7
02-12-2004, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali
I'm ALWAYS excited for the season

:gulp:

EXACTLY. I'm more excited than I was the past couple of years. Why, I'm not sure, but I like the fact that we're underdogs. I also think its just that I'm starting to love baseball more and more every year. I'm getting my baseball prospectus for the first time on Sunday and I can't wait, and I can't wait until next Friday when they report.

I just love baseball.

sas1974
02-12-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I am hoping to see Ozzie Guillen set some sort of "cliche" record in his tenure. Look for:

"We are going to give 110%" (I absolutely hate when people say that),

"Take it day by day"

"Take it one game at a time."

"They must capitalize on their opportunities.

It wasn't pretty but we'll take it.

A win is a win.

Everyone counted us out before the season started

I was just doing my job.

This team/our guys shows a lot of character.

This team/our guys shows a lot of poise.

This team/our guys shows a lot of pride.

This team/our guys shows a lot of resiliency.

This team/our guys shows a lot of heart.

I take full responsibility for this loss.

We didn't get the job done.

My hat's off to them.

I tip my hat to them.

You've got to hand it to them.

Give them all the credit.

We could turn post game press conferences into a drinking game. Everytime Ozzie blurts out a cliche, you take a drink. Bottoms up! :gulp:

SoxxoS
02-12-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
We could turn post game press conferences into a drinking game. Everytime Ozzie blurts out a cliche, you take a drink. Bottoms up! :gulp:

We would be hammered 15 minutes through. :gulp: :D:

Baby Fisk
02-12-2004, 04:49 PM
Breweries would go into a bidding war to sponsor his media conferences.

sas1974
02-12-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
We would be hammered 15 minutes through. :gulp: :D:

Good news is that if it was a loss, we'd forget about it faster!

poorme
02-12-2004, 05:06 PM
I'd like to know what "the plan" is so I could at least try to support it. I'm not excited at all since we have all the same guys that accomplished nothing last year. We don't even have any hot-shot rookie types to fantasize about.

soxwon
02-12-2004, 05:47 PM
liven up everyone- when we are not picked to do well we WIN and usually BIG.
We are gonna win the division, be pessimistic, im not, im Dancin we are gonna have a great year!!!!!!
ozzies gonna kick some butt- we are CHICAGOS best team , come september youll say SOXWON was right.
da reverand

Foulke You
02-12-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
I sincerely can't wait for the season to start. As you mentioned, if nothing else, this year is going to be interesting. It could turn into a Soap Opera or a Car Wreck, but it's going to be entertaining.

aside: Foulke You must be in Web IT w/ the phrase "look and feel."

Not Web IT...my trade is the video game industry. We go for "look and feel" also. :cool:

Foulke You
02-12-2004, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by mantis1212
I never heard about this, anybody have any details? If it's truly much softer that's huge! Why would they take away their biggest avantage?

The turf is going to be similar to the "Nexturf" that is currently used in Tropicana Field in Tampa Bay. Anyone who has seen baseball played in both the Metrodome and Tropicana can definitely say that the ball reacts more "true" with Nexturf than it does on the old billiard felt covered concrete of Minnesota. It is softer, gives more, and reacts more like grass. It isn't perfect, but it will be leaps and bounds better than what was originally in that place.

Truthfully, I'm surprised the Twins would give up such a huge advantage like that. I do know that they share that building with the Vikings and both the Twins and Vikings have lost players to injury directly due to the turf. Perhaps they feel the risk of a guy like Torii Hunter having a career ending injury is much worse than the advantage their team had from bouncing the ball into the turf for cheap hits.

LauraJ14
02-12-2004, 06:28 PM
Well I am excited about the season starting. I am going to spring training the week of March 8th to see the Sox play. The last time I went to spring training was in 2000 and see what happened then!!

chisoxmike
02-12-2004, 06:32 PM
I can't wait for the season to start. I may not have as high of hopes for the team like I did last year and in '02 and '01, but opening day is the best day of the year. It should be a holiday!

It's the one day where your team is the best (at least in your mind) and are pumped for the team no matter what high or low hopes you have for them.

April 5 and 13 can't come sooner!!!!!!! :) :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

kempsted
02-12-2004, 07:49 PM
Actually I think that we are better than we were going into 03 and everyone was much happier then.

Position player differences
Willie Harris instead of Jimenez - that is all.

Pitching
We lost Colon and that is big but we still have Loaiza, Buehrle who will almost surly improve and Garland who will finally have a break out season without Jerry Manuel messing with him.

Even MLB.com says - our bullpen is better than average. We lost Gordon and Sullivan (who didn't play long enough for us to have any real impact anyway.) We have 3 former closers and we havn't even counted Marte who was by far our best closer last year.


Fearless prediction - the WhiteSox will have the best record in Chicago - we will have more wins than the Cubs. They only won two more than us last year - Sox will win the Central division as well. And .....

:putitontheboard


:D:

Yeah I know its corny. :gulp:

soxwon
02-12-2004, 08:59 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kempsted
[B]Actually I think that we are better than we were going into 03 and everyone was much happier then.

I totally Agree Kemp, atleast im not the only OPTOMIST here, The Sox are gonna show everybody.

ChiSox7
02-12-2004, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by kempsted
Actually I think that we are better than we were going into 03 and everyone was much happier then.

Position player differences
Willie Harris instead of Jimenez - that is all.

Pitching
We lost Colon and that is big but we still have Loaiza, Buehrle who will almost surly improve and Garland who will finally have a break out season without Jerry Manuel messing with him.

Even MLB.com says - our bullpen is better than average. We lost Gordon and Sullivan (who didn't play long enough for us to have any real impact anyway.) We have 3 former closers and we havn't even counted Marte who was by far our best closer last year.


Fearless prediction - the WhiteSox will have the best record in Chicago - we will have more wins than the Cubs. They only won two more than us last year - Sox will win the Central division as well. And .....

:putitontheboard


:D:

Yeah I know its corny. :gulp:

You know what? That seems like a pretty good point to me. ELo is sure to be the 15 win 200 IP guy that Colon was last seaosn. Rowand was in Center last year. Harris prolly won't get to Dlo's offensive numbers, but that appears to be the only difference, as far as perception goes. We werent counting on Loaiza, Gordon, or any of them last year, and yet everyone was excited to start the season. ELos numbers are better and he was our pick signing this offseason, instead of Colon. It's all about perception I guess.

SEALgep
02-12-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by soxwon
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kempsted
[B]Actually I think that we are better than we were going into 03 and everyone was much happier then.

I totally Agree Kemp, atleast im not the only OPTOMIST here, The Sox are gonna show everybody. Finally, we can express ourselves without fear of being ridiculed. Lol, I'm glad there are some fellow optomists here.

SoxFan76
02-12-2004, 10:10 PM
I'm excited. Maybe not as much as other years when we had some fairly exciting free agent signings though.

-Looking forward to huge resurgances from Koch, Buerhle, Konerko, and even Magglio didn't do as well as he should of. (1st half of season).

-With all the hype about Ozzie and Frank, and Frank secluding himself, I have this strange feeling Frank will come back and have an awesome year.

-Ozzie changing the attitude of this team.

-Garland FINALLY living up to his potential.(i hope)

-More publicity as a result of Mr. Zero signing.

-Anxious to see if Willie and Rowand understand that they are the wild cards of the team this year, and the pressure is on for them to perform.

-Crede FINALLY living up to his potential offensively. (again, i hope)

-Olivo FINALLY living up to his potential offensively. (once again........i hope)

sas1974
02-12-2004, 10:32 PM
I am as optimistic as the next guy, just slightly paranoid about all of those over-discussed "ifs" we have this year.

Jjav829
02-12-2004, 10:52 PM
I'm definitely excited about the season coming, though mainly just the baseball season in general. I have some reserved optimism, hoping that this year will be the opposite of the past 3 years. Last year, I went in thinking that with the addition of Colon, this team has a legitimate shot to make a run to the playoffs and possibly further. This year I have no such hopes. I'm just hoping that a lot of things go our way (Willie Harris/Aaron Rowand show they can hit somewhat, Loaiza proves last year wasn't a fluke, Garland finds a set and pitches like he can, Koch/Konerko rebound, Maggs/Frank have better years than last year, Takatsu becomes an effective middle reliever, Crede plays the whole season like he did the second half of 2003) Obviously not all those things will happen, but I can always hope some of them do.

Mainly I'm just anticipating the return of baseball and all that accompanies it. I try to convince myself that this team has a good chance, but I just can't. Maybe they will come out and surprise. We can only hope.

ChiWhiteSox1337
02-12-2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
I'm definitely excited about the season coming, though mainly just the baseball season in general. I have some reserved optimism, hoping that this year will be the opposite of the past 3 years. Last year, I went in thinking that with the addition of Colon, this team has a legitimate shot to make a run to the playoffs and possibly further. This year I have no such hopes. I'm just hoping that a lot of things go our way (Willie Harris/Aaron Rowand show they can hit somewhat, Loaiza proves last year wasn't a fluke, Garland finds a set and pitches like he can, Koch/Konerko rebound, Maggs/Frank have better years than last year, Takatsu becomes an effective middle reliever, Crede plays the whole season like he did the second half of 2003) Obviously not all those things will happen, but I can always hope some of them do.

Mainly I'm just anticipating the return of baseball and all that accompanies it. I try to convince myself that this team has a good chance, but I just can't. Maybe they will come out and surprise. We can only hope.
I totally agree. Can't wait for baseball to start so we can get the fantasy league started! I do have optimism for the white sox though because I root for them. I'm hoping for koch and konerko to bounce back, crede, olivo, and garland having big years and harris getting on base and using his speed! Rowand showed some promise before we got everett so I have hopes for him, too.

lowesox
02-13-2004, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
ELo is sure to be the 15 win 200 IP guy that Colon was last seaosn.

Elo isn't sure to do anything. Look at his career numbers. It's much more likely that 2003 was a fluke than anything. But let's say he does pitch well, he isn't replacing colon. If Loaiza were to post the same numbers he did last year, we'd still need somebody else (actually that somebody else right now is looking like Shoenweiss) to replace Colon's numbers. Not looking too likely.

SSN721
02-13-2004, 08:34 AM
I am relatively optomistic. I think there is a lot of potential upside to this year. In fact the only thing that has me really hopeful is there is a massive amount of potential on this team. I think Olivo has the ability to hit better, as does Harris if he is allowed to hit like he did in the minors. I think Crede will also perform better offensively, Konerko, really anything will be an improvement. I think Franks numbers will only go up, as will Maggs. Valentin might slightly improve his average, and I think he is definately serviceable defensively. CLee I think will perform as well as he did last year. I think ELo, Burlymon, and Garland will each win 15 games or more. And I feel our bullpen is at least as good as it was last year. I know, probably get knocked for being positive at all, but I like being the underdogs, I think there is hope for something very interesting to happen this year. :D:

Happy Felsch Fan
02-13-2004, 11:38 AM
I am pumped up about the upcoming season and think that the WS will be in contention for the pennant. Get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Here are my performance predicitons:

Scale of 1-10

Olivio 8 Will call games and hit better
Konerko 8 Should rebound to usual stats
Harris 6 Will field well and end up batting 9th
Valentine 7 Same as last year
Crede 8 Will hit more consistant this year
Lee 8 Same as last year
Rowland/Reed 8 RH/LH tandem will get job done
Magglio 10 Mags is set for a career year
Starting Staff 9 The loss of Colon is over stated this staff is the best in the division.
Relief 10 Relief staff the best in the division, Koch due to rebound and Marte is lights out.