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SoxxoS
02-12-2004, 10:35 AM
I figured since everyone in the "Frank for Odalis" thread is getting up in arms after absoutely NO SOURCE or anything, I figured I would start my own thread saying I heard from a friends cousin that sweeps at the B.O.B.that we are trading Maggs for pitcher Elmer Dessens.

Please discuss. And make sure someone says "death threats" and "worst trade in Sox history" and "Would switch fandom to a different team." at least somewhere in there.

SEALgep
02-12-2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I figured since everyone in the "Frank for Odalis" thread is getting up in arms after absoutely NO SOURCE or anything, I figured I would start my own thread saying I heard from a friends cousin that sweeps at the B.O.B.that we are trading Maggs for pitcher Elmer Dessens.

Please discuss. And make sure someone says "death threats" and "worst trade in Sox history" and "Would switch fandom to a different team." at least somewhere in there. Lol.

pearso66
02-12-2004, 10:38 AM
what do you mean, that would be the best trade in history for us, I'd make sure to throw in Carlos Lee though

PaulDrake
02-12-2004, 10:45 AM
How about worst trade in the history of American professional sports?

sas1974
02-12-2004, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
How about worst trade in the history of American professional sports?

Very dramatic! I think that would some it up pretty well. Of course there was a certain team in town that traded away Lou Brock.

KingXerxes
02-12-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
How about worst trade in the history of American professional sports?

That would be:

Phil Esposito, Ken Hodge and Fred Stanfield to Boston

for

Pit Martin, Jack Norris, and the great Gilles Marotte.

Grobber33
02-12-2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
That would be:

Phil Esposito, Ken Hodge and Fred Stanfield to Boston

for

Pit Martin, Jack Norris, and the great Gilles Marotte.


Of course they then traded Marotte to LA for Bill White who was'nt too bad! Martin was at worst solid,but no Phil Espositio. BUT the original trade was bad,no doubnt about it. Typical of the Hawks.

akingamongstmen
02-12-2004, 12:52 PM
But think of the $$$$ Uncle Jerry would save!!!

KingXerxes
02-12-2004, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Of course they then traded Marotte to LA for Bill White who was'nt too bad! Martin was at worst solid,but no Phil Espositio. BUT the original trade was bad,no doubnt about it. Typical of the Hawks.

Grobber - If they don't make that trade, there are about three more banners up on the ceiling of the United Center.

Clembasbal
02-12-2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I figured since everyone in the "Frank for Odalis" thread is getting up in arms after absoutely NO SOURCE or anything.

Please discuss. And make sure someone says "death threats" and "worst trade in Sox history" and "Would switch fandom to a different team." at least somewhere in there.

Do you read anything other than this site or whitesox.com?

It is all over the place. Rob Neyer at ESPN, Ben Maller out or Philly. And even LA was reporting something to that extent.

They are just trying to figure out if Frank really can play all year at 1B of if Shaun Green would be a better first baseman.

SoxxoS
02-12-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Clembasbal
Do you read anything other than this site or whitesox.com?

It is all over the place. Rob Neyer at ESPN, Ben Maller out or Philly. And even LA was reporting something to that extent.

They are just trying to figure out if Frank really can play all year at 1B of if Shaun Green would be a better first baseman.

Thanks for the response. Show me a concrete link that isn't pure speculation. Thanks.

longshot7
02-12-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Thanks for the response. Show me a concrete link that isn't pure speculation. Thanks.

from the LA Times:

"The Dodgers have discussed deals for Chicago White Sox first basemen Frank Thomas and Paul Konerko, but Thomas, who will make $6 million in 2004, is the more viable option because the Dodgers probably could acquire him for Perez ($5 million), and the deal would be a payroll wash.

The White Sox are believed to be seeking prospects for Konerko, who will make $8 million in 2004."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-dodgers11feb11,1,7676055.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger

SoxxoS
02-12-2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
from the LA Times:

"The Dodgers have discussed deals for Chicago White Sox first basemen Frank Thomas and Paul Konerko, but Thomas, who will make $6 million in 2004, is the more viable option because the Dodgers probably could acquire him for Perez ($5 million), and the deal would be a payroll wash.

The White Sox are believed to be seeking prospects for Konerko, who will make $8 million in 2004."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-dodgers11feb11,1,7676055.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger

I'm sure every team has discussed getting a good player. I am sure we discussed in acquiring Lance Berkman at one time too, but the author of that article is using salaries as his "go to" point. "Since the salaries are a wash...". Soriano made $900,000 last year. If you were a GM and had to make salaries match up (which obviously the Yankees don't), would you trade Soriano for another player worth a million? No.

Frank Thomas is a steal at 6 million, and Odalis Perez is a big over-value at 5 million. KW wouldn't make the trade based on that alone.

davenicholson
02-12-2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
That would be:

Phil Esposito, Ken Hodge and Fred Stanfield to Boston

for

Pit Martin, Jack Norris, and the great Gilles Marotte.
Man, I wish you hadn't reminded me of that! :angry:

PaulDrake
02-12-2004, 02:02 PM
KingXerxes I hope I'm not annoying but once again I couldn't agree with you more. After cruising through the regular season in 66-67 the Hawks were bounced out of the playoffs in the first round by the Leafs IIRC. I don't know if this trade was an overreaction on their part or what. I also remember stories at the time that Esposito and the coach were at odds. Again, you're so right, what an absolute disaster of a trade that was. Think of those powerhouse Hawk teams of the early 70's with Espo in the lineup.

longshot7
02-12-2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I'm sure every team has discussed getting a good player. I am sure we discussed in acquiring Lance Berkman at one time too, but the author of that article is using salaries as his "go to" point. "Since the salaries are a wash...". Soriano made $900,000 last year. If you were a GM and had to make salaries match up (which obviously the Yankees don't), would you trade Soriano for another player worth a million? No.

Frank Thomas is a steal at 6 million, and Odalis Perez is a big over-value at 5 million. KW wouldn't make the trade based on that alone.

However, it is a quote from a reputable source. You asked for one, I provided it. While journalists can sometimes "make things up" - most have to have sources before going forward with a story - at least two, usually.

not every rumor is wild speculation.

SoxxoS
02-12-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
However, it is a quote from a reputable source. You asked for one, I provided it. While journalists can sometimes "make things up" - most have to have sources before going forward with a story - at least two, usually.

not every rumor is wild speculation.

Is he a reliable source? If someone in L.A. read a board saying that "Bruce Levine reports..." they would probably think he was reputable. But we know that that is not the case.

Clembasbal
02-12-2004, 03:27 PM
LongShot7, I like your style.

Soxxos, damn...don't be so defensive. All we are saying that it was in a couple of reports, that's all.

Don't always be so darn critical. Just except that sometimes you might be wrong, and Frank for Perez is not just a dream of somebody.

SoxxoS
02-12-2004, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Clembasbal
LongShot7, I like your style.

Soxxos, damn...don't be so defensive. All we are saying that it was in a couple of reports, that's all.

Don't always be so darn critical. Just except that sometimes you might be wrong, and Frank for Perez is not just a dream of somebody.

You got to be critical when judging a source. Unlike some, I don't believe everything I read. All I know is that there is a 3 page thread about "Odalis for Frank" when nobody has gave me one inkling (other than the L.A. Times writer, b/c "salaries are a wash" to say that we are going to trade Frank.

I am not even a huge Frank supporter, but I do know that KW isn't going to trade a 6 million dollar value (where else can you get 40 homers for 6 million?) for an over-valued pitcher. It isn't going to happen. If it does, I will have my foot with some mustard.

Clembasbal
02-12-2004, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I am not even a huge Frank supporter, but I do know that KW isn't going to trade a 6 million dollar value (where else can you get 40 homers for 6 million?) for an over-valued pitcher. It isn't going to happen. If it does, I will have my foot with some mustard.

I am a huge supporter of Frank, and I do not want to see him go for a number of reasons...I understand you have to be critique some reports, but to me it just seems that every Sox fan is negative all of the time.

Sources are sources to me, when I did research papers in school I did not care if they were creditable or not...but if you had to cite them then you had to. Some sources stink, Levine, others are awesome - Rob Neyer - but at the same time you have to cite them.

longshot7
02-12-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
You got to be critical when judging a source. Unlike some, I don't believe everything I read. All I know is that there is a 3 page thread about "Odalis for Frank" when nobody has gave me one inkling (other than the L.A. Times writer, b/c "salaries are a wash" to say that we are going to trade Frank.

I am not even a huge Frank supporter, but I do know that KW isn't going to trade a 6 million dollar value (where else can you get 40 homers for 6 million?) for an over-valued pitcher. It isn't going to happen. If it does, I will have my foot with some mustard.

Well, I certainly agree that you have to be critical about sources. But you have to admit, there is a difference between something written in a major newspaper and something gleaned off the CBS Sportsline message boards.

And I agree about your opinion that this trade will probably not happen, but that still doesn't mean that it hasn't been discussed. Trading Frank, however remote or unwanted, is entirely possible.

KingXerxes
02-12-2004, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
KingXerxes I hope I'm not annoying but once again I couldn't agree with you more. After cruising through the regular season in 66-67 the Hawks were bounced out of the playoffs in the first round by the Leafs IIRC. I don't know if this trade was an overreaction on their part or what. I also remember stories at the time that Esposito and the coach were at odds. Again, you're so right, what an absolute disaster of a trade that was. Think of those powerhouse Hawk teams of the early 70's with Espo in the lineup.

Esposito wet on to score about 125 pts. a year for the next ten years or so, Hodge had one or two fifty goal years after the trade - hell even Stanfield had better numbers than any of the three we got.

munchman33
02-12-2004, 05:38 PM
How about this from ESPN today.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=1733473

kempsted
02-12-2004, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
You got to be critical when judging a source. Unlike some, I don't believe everything I read. All I know is that there is a 3 page thread about "Odalis for Frank" when nobody has gave me one inkling (other than the L.A. Times writer, b/c "salaries are a wash" to say that we are going to trade Frank.

I am not even a huge Frank supporter, but I do know that KW isn't going to trade a 6 million dollar value (where else can you get 40 homers for 6 million?) for an over-valued pitcher. It isn't going to happen. If it does, I will have my foot with some mustard.

I agree you have to be critical of a source but it has been on ESPN, the LA Times, both Chicago papers and all of the radio stations. I even herd it today at lunch on WBBM - the all news station - and they are not just trying to fill up their endless hours of sports talk.

I hope and pray you are right and there is nothing to this rumor but it isn't as baseless as many of the rumors found here.

SEALgep
02-12-2004, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by kempsted
I agree you have to be critical of a source but it has been on ESPN, the LA Times, both Chicago papers and all of the radio stations. I even herd it today at lunch on WBBM - the all news station - and they are not just trying to fill up their endless hours of sports talk.

I hope and pray you are right and there is nothing to this rumor but it isn't as baseless as many of the rumors found here. The problem is that these reports have no backing to them. Now is there talks between the Dodgers and Sox for Thomas? Probably, but that doesn't mean there isn't more to the deal than just Perez. I believe we would probably be forced to have him included in any deal, because they want to get rid of him. Until they have a GM in place, nothing is going to happen. It's all hearsay until then. Many people dislike KW, and that's fine, but he isn't stupid. This deal does not happen by itself.

HITMEN OF 77
02-12-2004, 09:18 PM
If they had pitcher Jose Segura and threw him in the deal, it would be done in a heart beat.