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gosox41
02-07-2004, 11:10 PM
Ken Rosenthal made mention of the Sox signing of Shingo in TSN. Some scout said something about how the Sox are making a mistake because he's throwing in the 84-86 MPH range.

He also mentioned his 5.9 BB's per 9 innings. For the record, I mentioned his higher walk rates on the day the Sox signed him and don't see him being an effective ML pitcher. That's the second time before I've even seen this guy in a Sox uniform that I think it was a mistake to sign him.

The one positive of this move is that it's good PR and may tap into the Asian market. Of course this could be a good positive if it acutally leads to a significant number of increased sales at the box office. But there is no on the field positive about Shingo.

I'm not going to make him my whipping boy like Koch or Konerko, but I don't expect anything good from him.

Bob

SEALgep
02-07-2004, 11:15 PM
I don't think anyone is looking for him to be the savior. I hope he can be an efficent setup man or situational pitcher. I believe that he can fulfill that type of role. People haven't seen his stuff here. Besides, speed isn't a determining factor in production. He gets guys to ground out a lot with his sinker ball pitch. Walks concern me, but I feel he was a good pick up. He'll have his moments like any pitcher, but I feel he will do well for the most part. And like you said, it would be nice to increase our fan base.

The Critic
02-07-2004, 11:27 PM
I think I'll wait to see him pitch a little bit before I pass judgment.
I wonder how many Japanese League games Ken Rosenthal made it to last year?
There are SO many other factors to good efficient pitching than just the radar gun. When Kyle Farnsworth throws a 100-mph, straight-as-an-arrow fastball, it usually goes about 450 feet the other direction.
If Shingo has the "heavy sinker" every report has mentioned, then you actually WANT the batter to put it in play. Therefore, I think a bit less velocity helps him.

dickallen15
02-07-2004, 11:29 PM
Hopefully, the fact that the league is unfamiliar with him will help his performance.

Deadguy
02-07-2004, 11:33 PM
He'll be effective at first, but once hitters have faced him a couple of times, he will become very hittable.

Just from watching the video of him at whitesox.com, you could tell he doesn't have much velocity. However, he could be effective for one season, before hitters pick up on his motion and pitches towards the latter half of the season.

Daver
02-07-2004, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Ken Rosenthal made mention of the Sox signing of Shingo in TSN. Some scout said something about how the Sox are making a mistake because he's throwing in the 84-86 MPH range.



Anyone that rates a pitcher solely on gun readings is a fool,and only another fool would beleive a word he says.

SEALgep
02-07-2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
He'll be effective at first, but once hitters have faced him a couple of times, he will become very hittable.

Just from watching the video of him at whitesox.com, you could tell he doesn't have much velocity. However, he could be effective for one season, before hitters pick up on his motion and pitches towards the latter half of the season.

That remains to be seen. By that logic, Kelly Wunsch should get rocked this year. The Red Sox's Kim got a three extension with a similar throwing style. It really just depends. You don't become the career saves leader for Japan without learning to make adjustments. I'm sure he is a smart pitcher, and I doubt it's dumb luck to be where he's at. I don't think he can become a closer at this level, at least that's my take now, but I believe he can be effective beyond just this one season.

Lip Man 1
02-07-2004, 11:52 PM
Here is what Ken actually wrote: "Scouts and executives say the White Sox are kidding themselves if they think RHP Shingo Takatsu, Japan's all-time saves leader, can be their closer. Takatsu, a slender 35 year old sidearmer, throws 84 to 86 mph and averaged only 5.8 strikeouts per nine innings against japanese hitters the past two seasons."

The Sporting News- February 2, 2004. pg. 56

SEALgep
02-08-2004, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Here is what Ken actually wrote: "Scouts and executives say the White Sox are kidding themselves if they think RHP Shingo Takatsu, Japan's all-time saves leader, can be their closer. Takatsu, a slender 35 year old sidearmer, throws 84 to 86 mph and averaged only 5.8 strikeouts per nine innings against japanese hitters the past two seasons."

The Sporting News- February 2, 2004. pg. 56

In response to the quote, not you Lip, the Sox never claimed he was our closer. I would like to know which scouts and executives, because there were other ball clubs interested in Shingo, including the Padres and Yankees. He's not a strikeout pitcher, but that doesn't translate to how effective or non-effective he will be. As a setup man and/or situational pitcher, I believe he will do fine.

gosox41
02-08-2004, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Anyone that rates a pitcher solely on gun readings is a fool,and only another fool would beleive a word he says.

True.

But later in the post he mentioned his high walk totals. I think it's 5.9 per 9 innings or something. That's not so good.

Shingo's numbers in Japan don't impress me. Hopefully he can fool the hitters for most of the season.

Bob

kbriley
02-09-2004, 12:23 PM
I have a lot of conference calls with Japanese co-workers and I was talking to one of them about Shingo. The guy I talked to is a big Yokohama Bay-Stars fan, so has watched Shingo for years. He said he is definitely past his prime but still has good stuff. He said that since Shingo started to lose his velocity, that he has worked on becoming a better "pitcher" and that he has at least 4 "out" pitches that he can use with confidence.

SEALgep
02-09-2004, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by kbriley
I have a lot of conference calls with Japanese co-workers and I was talking to one of them about Shingo. The guy I talked to is a big Yokohama Bay-Stars fan, so has watched Shingo for years. He said he is definitely past his prime but still has good stuff. He said that since Shingo started to lose his velocity, that he has worked on becoming a better "pitcher" and that he has at least 4 "out" pitches that he can use with confidence.

He pitched in front of a bunch of team's scouts, and the Yankees and Padres were prepared to offer deals. We saw what we're getting, so it's not like the Sox are blind with this signing. I think those comments strengthen my belief that he can be a good setup man/situational pitcher. I bet he would make a good DP man in certain situations.

SoxxoS
02-09-2004, 12:48 PM
The guy didn't cost an arm and a leg, and it's going to take a while for hitters to catch up with that motion and stuff. Let's worry about something when it's time to worry about it.

chosk8
02-09-2004, 01:39 PM
I wonder if these same scouts said the same thing about Greg Maddux throwing in the "84-86 MPH range"?

SSN721
02-09-2004, 01:41 PM
I think I am going to wait and see him actually pitch before I decide if he is washed up or ineffective. I will trust my own eyes more than I will comments from executives and scouts who can be as hit or miss as the rest of us a lot of the time.

Hullett_Fan
02-09-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
... Let's worry about something when it's time to worry about it.

LOL! :D: I agree...it's not like there's a whole laundry list of other things we could be worrying about ...

Will we win without a ML level CF, 2B?

Will Frank be happy?

Will Koch & Konerko rebound?

Will Crede and Olivo show improvement?

Will Loaiza continue to play over his head?

etc

:?:

SEALgep
02-09-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
LOL! :D: I agree...it's not like there's a whole laundry list of other things we could be worrying about ...

Will we win without a ML level CF, 2B?

Will Frank be happy?

Will Koch & Konerko rebound?

Will Crede and Olivo show improvement?

Will Loaiza continue to play over his head?

etc

:?:

These questions are overblown. We've debated them nonstop, and I have no problem with continuing the discussion. But I just want to point out that negative thinking won't make us better. You can mock me and the organization forever, but it doesn't mean our current team isn't competitive. I think we will win the division. You guys make it sound like we have no shot. You think other teams don't have a lot question marks, everyone does.

npdempse
02-09-2004, 03:46 PM
New story on WhiteSox.com today--
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040209&content_id=635658&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

Sounds like this could be a major marketing windfall for the Sox, if they play it right (not bloody likely, but we can hope).

Article begs the question--will a translator be allowed to go out to the mound if the catchers need to talk to Shingo? I remember Jose going out pretty frequently to help interpret; Don't suppose he knows Japanese.